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My pleasure Garfield you are kind as well. I would love feedback from the master Lugia as he is super knowledgeable. So far been having good results sequencing and layer FX from the two Elektron systems with my new Doepfer A100 setup and filled case for the most part with some cool new modules. I did order a new Doepfer A100 6U suitcase empty case. The 9U/12U cases are hard to find right now and very expensive. I plan to slow down for learning the gear. Plus I need to learn how to record modular into Ableton Live and use Ableton Push 2 MIDI controller with the modular system. No fun if you cannot record it, right?

The Doepfer A190-4 MIDI CV interface is tricky to figure out!

Hi Rookie,

Ha, ha, I am being a bit mean here :-) Wanted to wait a bit longer but it's 3 am here and I need to get some sleep before get to work tomorrow... so I was hoping I could drag the tension a bit longer but on the other hand catching some sleep is quite good too ;-)

So, the module in my previous post I was mentioning is the Make Noise - Telharmonic. Check out Make Noise's website regarding this module. There are two (how interesting!) manuals as download for this particular module (Telharmonic). The Telharmonic, fair enough and that one on its own is already a very interesting module and has lots of interesting functionalities however there is a kind of hidden mode or special mode, if one presses the "H-lock" button for more than 5 seconds then the Telharmonic changes into the Spiratone music synthesizer module, different functionality within the same module! Now that was a nice surprise when I read that in the manual :-)

So I did that and then it didn't took me long to discover that Shepard Tone is possible with this module. I discovered that already last night but then it was getting to late, so that's why I came up today with this.

I hope this is what you were looking for, have fun with it and kind regards, Garfield.

Edit: Removed typo.

EDITED Sep 4th 2020, 01:02

Hi Rookie,

How are you and how is your modular going regarding that Shepard Tone?

When I read this post back on the 24th of August and especially after the explanation of Lugia (thank you very much Lugia), though I felt the idea is very interesting, I was too busy with other stuff and at that moment, for me, it was too complicated to look deeper into it.

Very coincidentally though that I received two days ago a module that was or better, that is a very interesting module. One of the most interesting matters is that I managed with this one particular module to create a Shepard Tone that I discovered quite unexpectedly, please check this out:

Is that what you mean? If yes, then suddenly I got a rather easy solution for you to create that tone, it's just a matter of getting one module :-) The above "demo track" goes in the beginning up and after a bit more than a half minute, it goes the other way around and goes down till I let it fade away.

Other than this one module I only used a mixer (Doepfer) and an Audio Interface (input/output by Intellijel). To give the sound a bit more "touch" I added a slightly bit of a reverb by using the Ventris Dual Reverb (using single Reverb only by the way) from Source Audio.

Let me know if this was what you were looking for and good luck with the Shepard Tone ;-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Ha, ha, your enthusiasm is very enjoyable :-) But look for yourself at your above new rack... it's full already?! If you still can change the order then go for the wider (168 HP) rack or at least one more row, otherwise next month you are buying yet another case :-)

Well my first advice you received already, take it easy... the above isn't really taking it easy, does it? ;-)

Second advice is, don't go for too many modules in one go and perhaps try to avoid here and there the "too sexy looking" modules? I am sure they are a lot of fun but some of them are pretty large in HP size and you got limited space; so check if those are really worth it from all point of views (price, space, functionality, beyond the sexy look, is it really worth it, etcetera). So, at the very least take it easy, don't order everything in one go, get a few modules first and then see if the rest of the plan still fits or if you like to update your above rack? But other than that, please enjoy!

You have chosen quite a few modules I don't have experience with or knowing them. So I can't give you much particular advice on those modules chosen. I have the Maths too, it's a nice module but for the money and the HP size, I sometimes wonder if the price-performance factor is high enough? I guess the Disting Ex is nice if you want to have a lot of functionality in one module. You can use that module then to use as a kind of "backup module". In case you are missing any kind of functionality, most likely the Disting can help you out till you got the module for that functionality that you require.

Ha, ha, thanks for thinking so highly of me, however I do think that's not fair to Lugia to put him on the same level then me or let me phrase that differently: I am far away from Lugia's knowledge and experience. Lugia plays in a totally different league of which I only can dream of... I am just once and a while active here and try to help where I can.

Thank you very much for your kind words, continue enjoy modular and keep us updated on your rack progress, again: it's lovely to watch you being busy with it :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks Garfield,

Indeed using the two Elektrons with modular is crazy good fun and very powerful. I also have the Make Noise 0-CTRL and Korg SQ-1 so the sequencers are covered for now. I did order a new Doepfer A100 case in 6u format with suitcase handle and cover so that will cover future modules for a while. I will need it as the cool modules are MASSIVE HUGE in size like Verbos complex oscillator and 4ms wavetable modules. I plan to add the 4ms Matrix VCA/mixer to that new case and perhaps MATHS and Frap Tools Sapel for noise generator and functions along with Erogeneous Zones Radar for the envelopes. Add in buffered mults, active attenuators and that covers my second case for a west coast vibe. May add larger third case with modular sequencers and mixer in couple of years as by then my Elektrons and Korg SQ-1 will be limited with that much gear. Here is a sketch plan for the empty new case:

Open to masters like you and Lugia and others for feedback on where to go for a west coast experimental techno vibe.

Hello,

Looking for feedback on my rack(suggestions for replacements or things I may have overlooked. My aim was to create a rack that could create pounding warehouse techno and other variations.

The second dilemma that has occurred to me is the prevalence of digital and occasionally menu filled modules. This include the NerdSeq, Sample drum, and Zadar. While on one hand, these modules offer tremendous flexibility in both their features and functionality, the screens and menu can sometimes feel like a hassle in putting and idea down. Though I have never used a DAW, I feel like I have almost indulged in what I found so despicable about them(too many menu, too many options).

Anyway, rant aside curious what people think about both these questions.

Yeah, I'm down, Jim. 100% on dumping the Cwejman stuff. F'rinstance, if you really have to have something along the lines of an ARP 2500 Filtamp, just get two of the B. ones.

Oh, wait...you'll have to do that anyway, as that specific Cwejman module isn't actually available. Even so...two B. Filtamps = $178. One Cwejman whatever = second mortgage.

Then the L1 mixer. Uhhhhhhh...why, exactly? It's actually a crippled version of what you have in the Mutable Veils or Intellijel Quad VCA; you have every bit of the functionality the L1 does, but these two offer a variable response curve as opposed to the L1's fixed two-position selection. It's also honkin' big, and in 2 x 104, MINIMIZING things (within reason...don't make a boxful of 2hp, for example) is critical. Dropping down to a 8 hp Veils clone would actually HALF the real estate in use here, still cost less than the L1, and give you better functionality.

But I'm down with Jim here...this build seems like a black hole for money, but won't yield results. My solution is probably different from Jim's, but we're solid on a major rethink here. Fact is, you DON'T need high-cost stuff to get good results. F'rinstance, MY main modular synth (set up for integration with everything else in the "modular sandbox" here) doesn't have a single module that cost more than $100...because my main modular synth is actually an AE. 160 spaces...and it still comes in at less than the above. It's not as sexy...but y'know, I give exactly the amount of f**ks about that as there are pages in that famous tome "Famous Antarctic Television Personalities of the 16th Century". The SOUND is what matters...not the price tag.

Hi Sacguy71,

Nice jam! :-) Sorry, I don't have myself the Octatrack but if I am not mistaken then the Octatrack doesn't have specific CVs and gate outputs so you are forced to do that via MIDI and that with that Doepfer module... indeed then doing the controlling of your modular by the A4 is a much better way to go I think.

Then this time buy directly a big case then you got enough space for a while. The Doepfer A-100LMS9 is a cheap case if you calculate it down on a per HP basis and with 3 rows of each 168 HP should keep you going for a while :-) I use myself the A-100LMS9 and I am pretty happy with it, still also that one gets filled up one day...

Have fun and kind regards, Garfield.

An extra row or longer rows really would be the solution here. One thing I noticed while reworking this was that there was too much "oversizing" going on, which is why some things got changed out to shrink them and open up more space. But 84 hp rows really do put a clamp on what you can do; add one large module to a row, and that row is pretty much locked into what that module does. The Tiptops are a little large, but when you look at the functionality (and price!) they offer, they're worth it. The MISO, for example...basically a CV manipulation toolbox. And the Fold also adds an audio subdivider to things, besides the CVable waveshaping.

But yeah, I get that. I'd much rather try and get this build's functionality into something larger so that a few more useful widgets can be added. More logic comes to mind, plus clock manipulators. But I figured it was best to stick with the OP's original form factor and basics for clarity.

"If you construct this build, my bet is that you won't feel a pressing need for anything new for a hot minute. At least. You'll be finding new tricks for YEARS. Or so I hope..."

That moment when we learned @Lugia is actually an optimist at heart 🤣🤣🤣
-- troux

hahahahahaha

but what's a hot minute? may literally be a minute

I still think it's way too light on utilities

I'd at least consider replacing both the tiptop modules with smaller modules -

or replace batumi and/or zadar (and expanders) with more utitlities - a matrix mixer for example for mixing your other modulation sources together

or as I suggested earlier - an extra row - but maybe that's the future

whatever an mk2 is? some sort of drum machine?

you are mixing out of the box ?

if you do not own the cwejman already you do realise that they are near unobtanium/really fucking expensive, don't you?

saying that and assuming you are doing final mixing externally -

modulation sources!!!!! you have none other than the hermod -

what do you think your quad clock distributer is distributing to - do they really need envelopes?? in a lot of cases probably yes

utilities - plumbing - you have a lot of shiny expensive (see note about cwejman, above) modules, but there is nothing to connect them - everything and anything from matrix mixers to sequential switches research research research - which might be as little as reading a dozen other, older noob threads

it's easy as a noob to overlook these types of modules (I've even seen people write that they don't want to 'waste' money on a mixer ffs) because they are not immediately obvious in the construction of fixed architecture synths or softsynths

however, this is one of the major areas where modular synthesis has advantages over those 2, it exposes the plumbing

imagine your synth is like an apartment block - what happens without plumbing? and that's what a modular synth without utilities is

saying that go slowly grow organically

start with 1 sound source, 1 modulation source, 1 sound modifier, a way to play (hermod), and a way to listen (the L1 vca) and maybe a disting (fills holes 1 @ a time, and great for learning) and learn to patch what you have once you are very familiar buy another module and repeat - sooner or later you will reach for something you never even thought of - and then buy that module

Alright, so maybe the mixer and fx modules can go (for now). If you're really planning to only connect a keyboard, the FH-2 is overkill. Also, if you're planning on creating structured tracks a full eurorack sequencer does make sense. That said, I still think the Usta is just too large for a case this size. Anyway, I thought this posed a fun challenge and I've had another go:

Replaced the FH-2 with a simpler (and smaller) Intellijel uMidi (your keyboard does have Din Midi Out, right?). The MI Blinds got replaced by the smaller Vermona QuadroPol. I never agreed that everyone needs Maths, so that got divided by 2.5 to Function (bad pun, sorry!). Since you're using a keyboard you might actually want to have a full ADSR. The Xaoc Zadar can be used (almost) like a full ADSR, but also for all sorts of interesting wave shapes, both triggered or looped (all that x4). The WMD TimeWarp can act as dual slew, EG and envelope follower. All that should give you a bunch of cv sources + manipulation + mixing capabilities. Both the BIA + the EnOsc can use plenty of those. Also there now is a selection of three filters. Whether these work for you is a matter of taste.

EDITED Sep 3rd 2020, 18:12

Thank you Senor Bling! I do not own any of the external sequencers you mentioned, I chose Fh-2 for the midi connection ( being able to use a midi keyboard and use the arpeggiator ) I am sure it covers way more than that.
I do use an external mixer ( Soundcraft Mtk 22), plenty of channels I can route for each output in my system, it has 2 effects per channel i can use independently ( with 2 efx parameters for control)...my system sits in front of the mixer, so i can use levels/efx and so on right on spot.
I like the idea of Planar!

👍

OK, thanks ! ... sorry for the duplication!

Hi,

I am building this and I am just wondering how should I go from there ?
The only thing which I don’t want to take off are the hermod, plaits, L-1 VCA and the DFA-2. Beside that I am not really sure of where to go in the sense I should add some space for other VCO, effects (which?), utility or whatever.
One thing is that I don’t need to have a power module & lastly this is to do some house and some experiment (for which specially I really need the hermod and its flexibility). Finally the drums are made with an MK2.

Thanks a lot !
Cheers,

EDITED Sep 3rd 2020, 14:19

To me the first question when I see this rack is: what is connected to the FH-2? Depending on that answer the next question might be: do you really need the Usta in a rack of this size? If a DAW, an MPC or an Elektron device are controlling the FH-2, I'd rather get a CV expander for that and add one or two smaller sequencers. Something immediate and fun, like a Xaoc Tirana (or two). I don't see a mixer anywhere (except for the Links utility mixer). Are you planning to use an external mixer? If not, the Befaco STMix or an Intellijel Mixup are nice and compact. Also keep in mind, while the 4ms Ensemble Osc is really great, people aren't joking when they say it eats attenuators. If you don't want to dedicate half your FH-2 to it and control the EnOsc mostly externally (although that can absolutely make sense), I'd definitely recommend adding a triple/quad attenuator/attenuverter/vca solely for this module.

Here's my take on your rack using the Planar:

I've tried to keep as many of your choices intact as possible. For example, I'd also rather go with a Noise Engineering Pons Asinorum in place of the WMD Javelin. Two more envelopes + LFOs, but losing the accent input on the way. Lugia's suggestion of the Doepfer filter is a great one, although of course filters are a very personal thing. The Xaoc Samara can take over most of the MI Kinks + Links functions while providing more flexible mixing and attenuation.

For a rack of the size, I'd go with a Planar. It's a great performance tool but it's also great for exploring the possibilities of modules. One of the fastest methods to change up to six parameters at once in a controlled manner. Tetrapad is also a very good module (haven't tried the Tete, tbh), but in my opinion that combo is better suited to a three row rack. Or a very focused two rows.

I've arranged the sequencers to the top left 'cause I don't want wires covering the knobs. Same reason why I brought most "knobs on top" modules to the top row. Even if it means splitting the "filter section". I also prefer sprinkling attenuators and mixers in between other modules to keep cables short. I've only just noticed that I don't have a good idea how to best utilize the Bitbox in this rack, so I maybe this is where my whole plan comes crashing down :D Anyway, hope this all kind of made sense and maybe has been of help in some way.

Edit: you've got two stereo modules but no stereo filters(s). Or at least two identical filters. Maybe that Doepfer module should be exchanged for something else, after all. The 12hp would fit a WMD Overseer (stereo) + a mono Electrosmith 2144 LPF - the latter should even get you close to the character of the Tiptop 2040 :)
You don't need a (stereo) filter for the Ensemble Oscillator, but having one can be really nice, especially for pads.

EDITED Sep 3rd 2020, 11:24

Thank you! Hoping to do something a bit more organized soon. ;-)

Lugia, I thank you for the detailed feedback and new direction for this system! I will definitely reconsider it! Thank you all! > The second one. Reason for this is that you can always add some sort of expression controller, especially since you have the FH-2 in there, allowing anything with USB Host requirements to jack right in. This also means that you can use the modular "upright" instead of laying flat, which should improve the ergonomics. As for module complement, the only problems I see are the presence of the Links (this build is too small for dedicated mults...you need to maximize space functionality in these, meaning that it makes more sense in this size to use stackcables or inline mults) and the filter complement, which is just two LPFs, meaning that you're missing out on the potential of any of the other filter topologies.

The workflow here, though...hm...this needs tinkering...

OK...loads of tweaks, as it turned out...but the game is definitely upped.

Upper row is mainly the "voicing", lower is control and modulation...again, mostly.

I changed out quite a few things here. In some case, it was to clear space for essentials (like the noise/S&H and Ladik Dual Lag) and in others, there simply was a better solution (such as the Doepfer VCF...which gives you 16 different topologies which you can also access simultaneously). But loads of additions here...

Top row: power, FH-2, then there's a WMD Toolbox, which has a bunch of little tricks up its sleeve. After this is a noise/S&H, then a dual slew gen with selectable glide-on-direction response. I replaced the Shapeshifter with Dove's new Wavetable VCO, which saved some money and space, and also provides a more straightforward "PPG-ish" wavetable oscillator. Your Ensemble Oscillator is next, then there's a quad VCA (Codex Modulex's clone of the Veils module) and mixer to sum down the oscillators and/or sampler. That Xpander VCF is next...yes, it's Dieter's version of the Oberheim Xpander filter. Then the Bitbox and another VCA/mixer for your final summing; this then goes down to the right end of the bottom for FX and output isolation.

Bottom row: power, Pams's, Steppy, Frap sequencer. Then two more dual-response VCAs, placed specifically for modulation signal processing. Codex's "Tides" clone is next up, followed by the Maths, then there's a dual ADSR which should come in handy for VCF and VCA control. Happy Nerding's new FX Aid gives you Spin FX-1 algorithms in stereo next, and last comes their Isolator, which provides transformer isolation/balancing for better audio and a single master level control for your output.

This seems more solid. For one thing, it has the "little bits" put in that allow the main modules to really cut loose. Functionally, this is WAY more dense and open-ended, and there's loads of "tricks" hidden throughout the build to up the programmability. The sole concern I have now is about the depth, which maxes at 50mm in this version, and the majority (but not all!) of dual 104hp cabs start having trouble at around 45mm. However, you might take a peek at Erica's 2 x 104hp portable case, which offers a 67mm max depth AND a kickass power supply with 2.5A on both 12V rails, and another Amp on +5V. The current headroom, all totalled, would be about an Amp, so the likelihood of overdrawing the P/S is pretty much zero. Also, this would negate the need for the 4ms ROW POWER 45s, so you'd wind up with another 4 hp per row for more twiddling, although at present the build still has these.
-- Lugia

"If you construct this build, my bet is that you won't feel a pressing need for anything new for a hot minute. At least. You'll be finding new tricks for YEARS. Or so I hope..."

That moment when we learned @Lugia is actually an optimist at heart 🤣🤣🤣

Hi GarfieldModular,

Thanks, it was a good challenge and relieved to have it working. Layer effects and sequencer plus add pads and drums from the A4 with modular are a superb combo for live performance. I had to connect the 1v/oct from the VCOs to the CV A/B on the A4 and set these values to 1v/OCT and gate on the A4 configuration menus. I am really loving the setup. Today, I managed to also get my Elektron Octatrack to sequence and control the modular system as well which was tons of fun. Getting the Octatrack configured via the crappy Doepfer A190-4 MIDI CV module on the eurorack was a royal PITA and this is probably the worst module that came with my Doepfer A100 basic system. Here is a jam that I came up with today on my Elektron Octatrack and modular system:

I am still trying to figure out how to apply FX from the Octatrack to the modular system and send each VCO voice to separate tracks on the Octatrack as well as how to play the independent VCO on the MIDI keyboard for the Octatrack. So, that said, I may just setup the A4 to manage the modular as this works far easier and no issues. Then to connect the A4 to the Octatrack over MIDI and sample the modular this way as well as serve as master brain. Since my case is almost full and labor day sales are here, I may get a new larger case and add gradually over time as you recommend.

The second one. Reason for this is that you can always add some sort of expression controller, especially since you have the FH-2 in there, allowing anything with USB Host requirements to jack right in. This also means that you can use the modular "upright" instead of laying flat, which should improve the ergonomics. As for module complement, the only problems I see are the presence of the Links (this build is too small for dedicated mults...you need to maximize space functionality in these, meaning that it makes more sense in this size to use stackcables or inline mults) and the filter complement, which is just two LPFs, meaning that you're missing out on the potential of any of the other filter topologies.

The workflow here, though...hm...this needs tinkering...

OK...loads of tweaks, as it turned out...but the game is definitely upped.

Upper row is mainly the "voicing", lower is control and modulation...again, mostly.

I changed out quite a few things here. In some case, it was to clear space for essentials (like the noise/S&H and Ladik Dual Lag) and in others, there simply was a better solution (such as the Doepfer VCF...which gives you 16 different topologies which you can also access simultaneously). But loads of additions here...

Top row: power, FH-2, then there's a WMD Toolbox, which has a bunch of little tricks up its sleeve. After this is a noise/S&H, then a dual slew gen with selectable glide-on-direction response. I replaced the Shapeshifter with Dove's new Wavetable VCO, which saved some money and space, and also provides a more straightforward "PPG-ish" wavetable oscillator. Your Ensemble Oscillator is next, then there's a quad VCA (Codex Modulex's clone of the Veils module) and mixer to sum down the oscillators and/or sampler. That Xpander VCF is next...yes, it's Dieter's version of the Oberheim Xpander filter. Then the Bitbox and another VCA/mixer for your final summing; this then goes down to the right end of the bottom for FX and output isolation.

Bottom row: power, Pams's, Steppy, Frap sequencer. Then two more dual-response VCAs, placed specifically for modulation signal processing. Codex's "Tides" clone is next up, followed by the Maths, then there's a dual ADSR which should come in handy for VCF and VCA control. Happy Nerding's new FX Aid gives you Spin FX-1 algorithms in stereo next, and last comes their Isolator, which provides transformer isolation/balancing for better audio and a single master level control for your output.

This seems more solid. For one thing, it has the "little bits" put in that allow the main modules to really cut loose. Functionally, this is WAY more dense and open-ended, and there's loads of "tricks" hidden throughout the build to up the programmability. The sole concern I have now is about the depth, which maxes at 50mm in this version, and the majority (but not all!) of dual 104hp cabs start having trouble at around 45mm. However, you might take a peek at Erica's 2 x 104hp portable case, which offers a 67mm max depth AND a kickass power supply with 2.5A on both 12V rails, and another Amp on +5V. The current headroom, all totalled, would be about an Amp, so the likelihood of overdrawing the P/S is pretty much zero. Also, this would negate the need for the 4ms ROW POWER 45s, so you'd wind up with another 4 hp per row for more twiddling, although at present the build still has these.

EDITED Sep 3rd 2020, 03:27

Yeah, I pulled those two because...

...with the LFO, the Stages is far more flexible. You can literally define the modulation curve via the sliders, tamper with the behavior while it's running, and if you need an extra sequencer, it does that too...besides having a crap-pile of other useful tricks. And remember, that Tiptop MISO is purpose-built for tinkering with modulation and CV signals, making it yet another key to what the Stages is capable of. And...

...the VCF was too...ah, basic. Sure, it might have an SSM circuit in it, but in the end, it's still just a lowpass VCF with some extra skirt taps. The Morgasmatron, though, is clearly the product of a brilliant but deranged mind. You can run it as a single filter pair (like an MS-20), or split the pair out to be two separate multimode VCFs (yes, with CV over resonance!), OR run this as a stereo filter pair. Or you could just let the two filters in there duke it out for sonic mangling supremacy via its internal crossroutings. Plus, now that there's a proper CVable waveshaper there AND a ringmod, you've got the complete kit for timbral screwing-around. Also, keep in mind that even though the "flow" here is left-to-right, that's not a hard and fast rule; you might find it super-twisty to feed the two sides of the Morgasmatron back into the dual Fold inputs to see what THAT might spit out.

Also, that Hermod can also serve as a MIDI interface for a controller that needs a USB Host connection...meaning that you could strap an Arturia Keystep Pro to this thing and get even MORE sequencing channels! Or if complex expression control work sounds right, it'll be great with a ROLI.

If you construct this build, my bet is that you won't feel a pressing need for anything new for a hot minute. At least. You'll be finding new tricks for YEARS. Or so I hope...

I find that the longer I play modular, the more I’m longing for expression - something to touch and actually play. Tetra offers a lot in that regard, it can really make you play the system like an instrument. The built in quantization sure offers a lot of fun. And you can always get some random stuff out of the fh2!

If you are in the States, make sure you check out Juno Records (in the UK) before buying any XAOC. Their prices are great, and their shipping is cheap too.
-- Shakespeare

I'm in Asia, but you're right, their prices are actually the best I've seen! I'll keep them in mind when I order, thank you.

Also: you're probably going to want the 3hp expander for Odessa. I use it every time I use the module. So I'd suggest adding that in from the start.
-- Shakespeare

Thanks, that looks a like a must-buy for Odessa. I guess I need to add more VCFs and VCAs now though. :)

Which system would you choose out of the two's?
I am interested in function covering and flexibility
Option1: Tetrapad/Tete combo + Dixie2
Option2: Shapeshifter(offers vavefolding, maybe useful for the other voice) + TTz20240+2hp Rnd
or...what would you use instead of these modules

EDITED Sep 2nd 2020, 21:43

Hi Gabor,

It's nice to see you playing with your modular synth. The Athru sounds good indeed, pity, as you mentioned yourself already, that it's not easily to spot in the video; so I can't wait for your next demo :-)

The sound effects are pretty nice too, which sound effect module or pedal did you used for this patch?

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

I am so glad for you that you managed to get your A4 working with your Doepfer system! :-)

So what was the problem? How did you solve it?

I actually do like/love Doepfer modules with the exception of the A-190-5, the MIDI module I had from Doepfer for a short while, it was the only module so far from Doepfer that I really disliked, not nice to use and partly illogically too, so I managed to swap the that Doepfer module for a Vermona qMI2 MIDI-to-CV module, so much easier and logically to use.

Good luck with the A4 & Doepfer systems and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks a lot Garfield and Defragmenteur!

My aim was to use the power of A4 CV capabilities to control Plaits without having to spend on additional modules to do the Enveloping, Filtering, etc. Yes, I want more, need more, but i came to a point where i said to myself that's it! Just play with what you have and make the best out of it :) Yes, I need to learn how to use Plaits and my other modules on my rack. To be honest my modular journey started during the lockdown desperation/depression times.

After a lot of searching i stumbled upon this video:

Which finally gave the direction i wanted :)

Cheers

Ambi

Obi Wan style: You don't need to add this filter - this is the one you are looking for: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/steady-state-fate-mmf

KNYST
Jedi, janitor, moderator

Looks pretty nice @Realactualme! I'm curious, how do you like the Fold Processor?

Ohhhhhhh thank you so much Lugia !! new buil new life !! you gave me a lot of work for the next few months !! it is difficult to part with some things: i would like to keep e440 e355, but now it works much better i am sure ...
wow tanks!

My new favourite module manufacturer is Instruo. Just received the Athru wave folder and I'm blown away by how awesome this module is (I also have the Céis EG + Ochd in my rack, Ts-L and Vinca will be added soon). This piece is a short, drony improvisation with Benjolin and Noisewasp (4ms Noise Swash clone) running thru Athru. More details in the video description.
(It was only after recording the video that I noticed that Athru is barely visible - sorry about that. Will do a more demo-like something later.)

EDITED Sep 2nd 2020, 11:19

That's a good start

I would save this dream rack and forget about it for a while!!

When you actually fill your rack you can compare and see how close you were!

Then save for an entire year and buy a larger case and new build.
-- sacguy71

or maybe better - start saving, buy a new case, grow organically as and when you can

Thanks, exactly one can never have enough cables! I really love the longer 3' Hosa Eurorack 3.5 inch cables- so colorful and easy to use. I hate the Doepfer 3.5 eurorack cables that came with my system- complete junk. Fortunately I bought a bunch of the Hosa cables and also some Tiptop Audio stackable cables which are great backup to passive mults for routing CV across the system. Really happy about the Intellijel Quad VCA that thing is a fantastic CV mixer, quad VCA and quad attenuator all in one module and so easy to use and an essential utility module. The buffered mult that I picked up from Noise Engineering- Extra Mullet is also a fantastic utility module. I probably will return the Malekko Quad Envelope and Intellijel Mixup modules for a refund- would rather get a function generator module like Maths for envelopes and the additional goodies and possible a quantizer and more voices so that I can work out of box without the Elektron gear. Thinking of the Noise Engineering BASIMILUS ITERITAS ALTER module would complement Maths nicely to fill my case out. That should cover my needs for industrial and techno setup. Paired with the two Elektrons, I have that well sorted.

Then save for an entire year and buy a larger case and new build.

congratulations!!!

always buy more cables/mixer channels/vcas than you think you need!! don't buy 2 cables buy 4 - you then you have them if you need them!

Finally got most of the modular working with my Elektron Analog 4 MK2. So fun! Here is a quick jam that I put together this evening with everything:

Now I still need to sort a few things out and get a couple more 3.5 to 1/4 inch cables to use the other 2 CV outs from the Elektron Analog 4 to manage more of the modular system but its great fun to layer FX and sequence the modular with the Analog 4. Octatrack is another can of worms that the Doepfer A-190-4 MIDI to CV module is making it tricky to work well with modular stuff. I have yet to see a video of anyone showing how to get an Octatrack to work correctly with that Doepfer A190-4 MIDI CV module! Most folks use another way with it. I will try to see if I can get that stinking crappy module to work with Ableton and via the USB port on it! In any case, I may just use the Analog 4 for modular and feed that into the Octatrack to sample both the A4 and modular and then record to Ableton.

Hmmm...probably better if I show you. Lemme bang on this for a hot minute...

EDIT: OK, here we go...

First off, I deleted the discontinued modules...notably Braids and the Stillson Hammer. Removed the drum voices, also, then I restructured the signal flow so that your "voice" is on top, "modulators" in the middle, and the sequencers, effects, and performance mixer on the bottom. Left to right flow, also. These tweaks make the general environment of the instrument a LOT easier to navigate.

Top row: buffered mult added, since we've got four oscillators here, plus the potential of VCF CV routing. Next to this is a little Doepfer multimodule that contains a sample and hold or track and hold, slew limiter, and a ring modulator. Oscillators next, with the Braids subbed out with a CalSynth clone. Then a four-in mixer with dual outs, which lets you sum the oscillators down...then you can feed them into the Tiptop Fold. Or you can send some oscillators into one of the Fold's inputs, and send another down to the #2 input on the Fold for extra wavespliced craziness. Lastly, Morgasmatron...why have two separate VCFs when you can jam 'em into the same module and make them cross-feed, right?

Middle row: Noise and random pulse gen, then the WMD/SSF Toolbox, which is one of the best jam-things-in-tiny-space utility modules I can think of. After that, a Stages...which can be either a multistage envelope gen OR a 6-step sequencer, depending on what you need. Maths next, then the Batumi and Zadar with their expanders. The Tiptop MISO then provides plenty of ways to screw around with the modulation signals, and next to that is a Happy Nerding 3x VCA, primarily for the use of the modulation row BUT since the module allows you to "split out" individual VCAs, you could also press them into service for audio.

Bottom row: Stillson's gone, so I put in a Squarp Hermod. Internal quantizing, MIDI interface (including a host connection for directly connecting USB devices, such as keyboards, etc), all the bells 'n' whistles across eight channels. Then for kicks, next to that is a Hikari Eucrhythm sequencer for creating crossrhythmic patterns with a touch of statistical randomness. It's also useful for doing random gate/trigs for other devices in the build. Mimeophon after that, then next to it is a Frequency Central module for reverb, tap delay, and chorus. The performance mixer here is Toppobrillo's revised 4-channel Stereomix mkii, which gives you your audio VCAs (four, one per channel) plus VC panning, VC AUX send, cue send, mutes, metering, and your phones preamp. This then connects to the Happy Nerding Isolator to convert synth to line level and to isolate the modular from any crud coming back thru the audio out lines, plus it has the master stereo level control, allowing you to kill the audio feed without having to change any mixer settings...very handy!

Yes, this IS different from your start point. But at the same time, it still has the same sound generation capabilities as the original version, the same modulation source, and a beefy sequencer like before. But in this case, this is what you get when you drop all of the "boring" modules in, which then tunes up the build and makes it into a ready-to-rip modular. Without these tweaks, synthesis is a big PITA...but WITH them, you wind up with a boxful of sonic trouble that I doubt you'll ever hit the bottom of. And yeah, no drums...trust me, you're much better off using the safety of a quality drum machine, because even if everything on the modular goes bonkers, you've still got that groove going and you can turn the modular catastrophe into a trippy and gnarly "improv" while you're busy fixing shit! And believe me...that happens more than you think!

EDITED Sep 2nd 2020, 04:34

Hey @defragmenteur - thanks for the pro tip.

Much appreciation to y'all for the input. Here is how the plan is looking now. Definitely realizing that it's 100% going to change, drastically most likely.

I'm kicking this off with BIA, NerdSEQ, and Ensemble Oscillator! With the modules I'm carrying over from my starter rack (Maths, Disting, O_c, DPO, VnIcursal), I foresee much wiggling in my future. (;

Cheers all.

A couple of months ago I came here and blindly started building racks. I got a lot of advice from helpful users and now I want to show off what I made. This is the system I actually have and it’s awesome. Pamela’s New Workout and Zadar are amazing modules. I nixed the uMIDI 1u because they’re impossible to find and PNW handles all the clock stuff anyway.

Hi GarfieldModular,

I completely agree. If I can get the clock and sequencer working right from the Elektron Octatrack and Analog 4 then I have my
bases covered on sequencers, FX, gates and envelopes covered without buying another module for my setup. That space can be used for another voice or two in the modular rather than on envelopes and so forth. I probably will return the Intellijel Mixup and Malekko Quad Envelope Generator modules as these don't really make sense since I already have mixer and many VCAs in the current case and an external mixer for everything.

Really loving the Malekko Richter Anti-Oscillator, Richter Dual Borg Filter and Batumi Quad LFO so these kinds of modules are what are super fun to me. Oh the Intellijel Quad VCA is brilliant as well and love the Make Noise Extra Mullet- I needed a good buffered mult.

Hi Sacguy71,

Great to hear that your new modules have arrived and are installed and working, luckily without smoking them up into thin air :-) Nice demo by the way, it's clearly you enjoying your modules :-D !

Regarding the Elektron, I have myself the Analogue Four (A4) and I had MIDI issues as well, till I discovered...

The opening in the Elektron housing for the MIDI plugs isn't very large, so you might "think" you had plugged in the MIDI plug into your Elektron but though it fits "half-way" it doesn't really necessarily makes electrical contact... I had to buy a cheap MIDI cable with a cheap plug (hence as thin as possible) so the MIDI plug would fit into my A4 and then it worked.

I am not saying you have the same issue but since you mentioned: "and then no dice!" I thought perhaps you have a similar issue, at least it might be worth it to have this checked.

I like Elektron stuff but I do hate them for creating ridiculous small openings for the MIDI plugs :-(

Have fun with your modular system and kind regards, Garfield.

Yes guys you are useful and for this I asked for an opinion !! explain yourself better lugia: taking off the mutants what would you wear?

Somehow I totally missed this here and only ever used the "thumbs up" feature. So belated props for the following sellers that I had a great experience with in the last months:
@A.S. (very thoughtful packaging)
@patr (super fast and nice)
@kosmixx (great!)
@EkoC (was really great and helpful)
@zfrucht (kickstarted DIY for me)
@wavecircle (nice and understanding)

I guess I miss a whole bunch more from which I already deleted messages, but will try and post here too if I meet more great sellers like these.

EDITED Sep 2nd 2020, 12:52

Hi Ambrish,

Do you need an ADSR? At the end that's up to you :-) That's the beauty of a modular synth, you don't have to do anything you don't want ;-) So, you could follow up on Defragmenteur's advice, that saves you for the moment an ADSR however, I do think that sooner or later you need an ADSR but then again, looking at your rack you might need other things as well like a filter, LFO, another VCO, etcetera. But that it easy on that since your limited space and follow Defragmenteur's advice. Once you have build up more experience with the A4 and your rack then it will become clearer to you what you are still missing and then go for that.

Good luck and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

My advice is to not fill it up at all for the moment :-) You just got your system, so build up more experience first, see how your own thoughts will develop parallel to your build up experience and then slowly take it from there.

Once this space is filled up your rack is full and you need a new case, so again, I would take it easy first :-) Enjoy the system as it is now, it's pretty nice to start and play around with as you did already, looking at your sonic contributions here!

Have fun with your rack and kind regards, Garfield.

Edit: Removed typo.

EDITED Sep 1st 2020, 21:32

lots of people appear to get elektron gear working very well with modular - I would spend some time searching forums - particularly muffwiggler and reddit - it can't be that difficult to get it working - you are probably only a button press or 2 away - music tech companies are not the best at help unless it's only their products, which is kind of understandable!

if you still can't get it working then you should consider dumping the midi->cv module and getting a varigate and pams etc - at least that way you have some more space for utilities

utilities should not be an afterthought - they are an essential part of the plumbing of your modular (along with patch cables) - kinks and a matrix mixer (AISynthesis do one in 10hp) would be great additions NB this is not for mixing audio - it is for extending your modulation sources massively - these 2 combined can give you an extra 10 interesting and related modulation sources

I would re-read the Pams manual/advertising blurb - it can kind of do what you think it can but probably not in the way you think it does - for example the quantizer will only work on internally generated cv, not externally (afaiak) and it's not really a programmable sequencer - it is a great module and very good at what it does though!

you have mixed up 1u tiles - either pulp logic or intellijel style not both - if you are buying an intellijel case (which I suspect you are) then only intellijel sized 1u modules will fit - if anything else it'll probably be pulp logic - intellijel sized 1u will fit but not properly! - if you are DIYing it depends on the rails you buy, but in this case the rails etc will cost the same as for a 3u row - I'd go for the 3u personally - there's nothing particularly special about any 1u module that can't be done in way less hp in 3u, of course space may be a concern, but it's 10cm or so!!

your goals - my thoughts

SUMMARY: trying to do too much in too small a space with too many big feature modules and not enough support modules

• it should work in cooperation with a daw for further processing and control but also standalone

es9 ok - generative only standalone ok - I'd want at least some sort of programmable sequencer - something like a BeatStep Pro is always useful - or better yet - pick one to start and maybe save the others for case 2 or 3

• it should have tools for generative and random sound creation (but with control over the musicality)

ok - you've got some random (Bloom) and a function generator (falistri) but no real way of combining and altering them so they are more interesting (kinks and matrix mixer) - and only 1 vca (I bet you didn't realise that they are useful if not near essential for modulation as well as audio!)

• it should be able to create complete tracks (drums, bassline, synth, percussive stuff, .. )

you can't really do that all at once with this, can you? possibly everything separately, but definitely not at once - if you want to do this get smaller oscillators or get a bigger case

drums/percussive - modules or patch from scratch? patch from scratch is more modular, modules are smaller - neither is cheaper than a drum machine!!! - add a sub mixer (panning) for drums - get some low pass gates (buchla bongos)

maybe you are thinking of using the disting for this - I would buy this module early so that it leads you towards modules that you need, by exploring it's functionality - I usually want a kick, a snare and open/closed hats as a minimal drum/percussion system - probably won't get that from a single disting (even an EX)

bassline/lead/pad - yeah you can do 2 out of 3 - unless disting - see above

• it should be flexible and make fun for as long as possible, so that there is no quick reason to expand :)

that is a question only you can really answer and only when the case is full!

Other thoughts

Rainmaker is huge - there are plenty of other delay modules that are a lot smaller and just as good, if a little different - I would replace this so that you have room for a few more modules - Chronoblob2, Magneto etc all worth looking at

consider replacing the 2hp logic and s&h with a kinks - you get a rectifier as well - very useful!!

I think data is also quite big in a case this size! maybe for case no2 - also consider a smaller osc module - o'tool+ for example - or use the es9 to send whatever so you can use say vcvracks oscilloscopes when attached to the computer - if you need something to tune with get a pedal or use the disting!

(for a beginner) I would always recommend Maths over falistri - check out the maths illustrated manual online to see why

you don't need a buffered mult - really only needed for copying pitch?

consider the expander for the odessa

Mixing - do you want to have mono or stereo final mix output to the intellijel built in outputs via the 1u module?
if you want stereo and you want to mix in the rack - you need to take another look at your mixing solution - maybe you can use the es9 when standalone - would prefer a mixer with knobs on myself!

good to go slow!!!!

I would strongly suggest a minimum viable synth (a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play, a way to listen) maybe 2 or 3 other modules (one of which should be a disting!!!!) at most and learn each module and how to play with them together - when you find yourself reaching for something that you don't have - or disting is stuck on buchla converter mode, for example, then is the time to buy the module you need not necessarily the one you want!

Hi @JimHowell1970,

Yes, I am having technical difficulties getting my Elektron Octatrack to work with the Doepfer A-190-4 MIDI to CV module and both Doepfer and Elektron technical help have not been able to help me resolve the issue. I connect the Elektron gear to the Doepfer MIDI CV A-190-4 Module which by the way is the most obtuse user interface ever! and then no dice. I patch the CV1 on the Doepfer A190-4 to 1v/oct on the VCO and even setup MIDI channels and clock on the Elektron Octatrack and no luck. I have similar issue with CV to the Doepfer on the Elektron Analog 4 via CV outputs. Plus I read from the Malekko Quad Envelope manual that it needs clock and an extra bonus is that if you have the Malekko Varigate 4+ or 8+ on same modular bus power board, you can clock the Malekko Quad Envelope and create dozens of presets! Very cool!

So here are my thoughts moving forward:

Option #1:
Keep the Malekko Quad Envelope module and buy the Malekko Varigate 4+ sequencer and a small 1-2HP utility module

Option #2:
Keep Malekko Quad Envelope module and buy ALM Pamela's New Workout module that has clock, sequencer, quantizer and utility small 1-2HP module

Option #3:
Keep Malekko Quad Envelope module and buy Expert Sleepers Disting EX when it comes out and small 1-2 HP module

Option #4:
Keep Malekko Quad Envelope module and buy other modules?

Thoughts?
Getting Elektron gear to work with modular is a pain so far or I am just stupid lol. I probably will return or keep the Intellijel Mixup module as I don't really need another audio mixer as I have the Doepfer mixer, Doepfer DVCA,and Intellijel Quad VCA modules.

Incredible that I managed to fill up my first row of 84HP so quickly but it is fun addiction. Need to save for larger case and more modules. But will focus on using this setup for next 1-2 years.

EDITED Sep 1st 2020, 16:23