Assembled around pairing it with a Digitakt

Thanks, these are incredble. Do you mind sharing how you think about planning/building a rack? I know you said they're kinda of anarchistic, but do you have a goal with each rack, or do you let them grow organically?

My renegade party days are behind me, but as a thought experiment I put together a little travel rig for the mission at hand out of stuff I already have. More often than not, when I'm sitting at the rack exploring, I am pursuing Emptyset-ish or Surgeon-ish sounds. In fact, a considerable part of my rack is dedicated to music like that. Through more trial and error than I'd like to admit, I've settled on about 208hp of modular (plus a few outboard pieces) for that kind of stuff. I tried to make it smaller than that, but one of the constraints I will NOT give myself is cramped tiny modules with minimal or confusing controls and knotted cable spaghetti blocking the knobs. That's one of those things you only learn after trying it and failing miserably. A larger case has more to do with building a playable instrument than chasing a dragon or consumerism, at least for me and many others that participate in this forum. We all have our own process and self-imposed limitations, often philosophical/artistic/aesthetic, often financial, often spatial... I'm not Emptyset or Surgeon, and I'm definitely not a wealthy man, but I have an artistic vision too, in fact multiple different visions, approaches, and projects at any given time.
Another trial and error process led me to purchase and ultimately get rid of most of my Noise Engineering modules. For me, the UI and sounds didn't match the experience and results I was working towards. Doesn't mean they won't work for someone else, but I'm hesitant to recommend them now. There are several euro manufacturers like that for me, but I only know that after trying them out for myself.
So anyway, here's my portable thought experiment crushing, dissonant, and chaotic rack. Some rhythm, some noise, some distortion, some feedback, some lo-fi... Take the suggestions or leave them.

Thank you for your insight and advice!
I assembled these modules in 2014, when I first found ModularGrid, just to try out the platform, and especially TrueGrid live browser patching space. So, I used modules that will run in TrueGrid. I wanted to try out something anorthodox, to see how the digital emulations would reproduce the behaviors of the analog in various scenaria. I have some patches there, made with the above abomination, for example this generative soundscape. Lots of fun!
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/synth/88651/516
I am using only one oscilator as voice, through two filters. Everything else is used for control and cross-modulates in chaotic fashion. Also, I use the delay for CV.
I would not buy these modules to build this as my synth case, I am just experimenting.
These days VCV-Rack works much better, but TrueGrid was pure magic back then. Have you tried it out? It only works with few select modules.
See some other stuff I do here https://www.youtube.com/stgiann
Thanks!

EDITED Sep 18th 2023, 20:25

Very nice, thanks for sharing. It's very instructive :D

Love the site! Adding all my racks slowly but surely to my profile, so check em out if ya want.... kind of a messy anarchistic setup for the euros, cept for the modcan... but building a new studio and time to do much much refactoring. :D

enjoy!

Hey folks,
I had several situations I wished I could simply send a picture of a real existing module in my rack at home or a soundfile to somebody else here on modulargrid via a messenger service like on Facebook and many other web sites. This would make communication within an ongoing trade much easier and I would not need to use sombody elses e-mail adress or send mine to receive more infos about a module. I do not know how hard it is to implement this into this site but maybe something worth to consider.
Cheers
-- ChaiBaba

We have this now as an experimental feature for unicorn users. See https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/view/40032

Image Upload in the Messenger

Besides module images I never wanted to host user uploaded images on the server because of the potential trouble with backups and malware.
But users pointed out that in case of the marketplace it is very helpful to send images via the messenger to not disclose their private data/ email adresses early. So that is possible now. You can send one image per message.
The images are hosted on a Google Cloud Server. Because that service charges money for hosting and traffic the new feature is an Unicorn Only feature.
Since I have no idea how expensive it is in the long run the image upload is an experimental feature, so save any important images localy, because the data might vanish again.

just bear in mind... no plan survives contact with the enemy... in this case you are the enemy...

countless times I've seen people with this attitude to start & countless times I've seen them either give up (and sell up or put the modular in a cupboard) or buy a bigger case very shortly after starting...

this is almost always caused by expecting too much from too little... constraints can be good, but too much constraint is constraining...

it's not a big deal there are many paths and learning by your own mistakes is an incredibly good one... although imo, learning from others mistakes, is significantly better...

anyway... good luck and have fun!!

I, too, place all of my mixers on the bottom row. However, after thinking about it, I think the top row would be best and the Behr may be on to something! With the jacks on the bottom and the modules in the top row, all cables would be completely out of the way. When the mixers are on bottom row, we still have to deal with all the sagging cables that sort of pool at the bottom from all the action in the rest of the case.
Something to think about....

using the "search similar racks" function i found a nearly identical rack:
maybe it includes the blurry modules that cant be recognized in the video...

hmm... I hope this is just a first pass at trying to design a modular synthesizer!

you are trying to do too much in too small a space without the support modules that are necessary to get the most out of the modules...

ie - too mnay sound sources, so missing a lot of useful (by that I meam necessary) things, particularly modulation & utilities...

I can almost definitely see what you're trying to do - 2/3 voices, some modulation, some sequencing an an effect... but it's fundamentally lacking... if you went and bought this - you would be seriously disappointed, not only because it wouldn't actually do the things you want it to, and possibly to the extent that it might be up on reverb (or elsewhere almost immediately), or in the closet gathering dust, but even if that wasnt' the case, because there's not enough space for the support modules that are actually needed to get it to do what you want...

modulation - one of the fundamentals of modular synthesis... modulate your modules & modulate your modulation... a single lfo is not enough!!

utilities: see my signature... more mixing - sub mixers for the vcos to mix them before filtering/further processing... and that's just really the beginning - I see how newbies fail at this - these components of a synthesizer are either hidden or just missing from fixed-architecture synthesizers, but they're way more important in modular than anything else, in lots of ways, they really take patching from 1:1 (ie patch cable out to patch cable in) to 1:N - patch cable out to lots of inputs - & in doing so multing, mixing and mangling those signals - this is where modular synthesis really shines, especially when combined with adequate amounts of modulation sources!!!

envelope generators... a lot of envelope generators - but only a single gate source (the sequencer) to trigger them...

sequencing - the sequencer is a single oupput... how are you envisaging sending pitch information to all the vcos? and is the same sequence sent to all vcos useful - it is if you're going to tune the lfos to intervals, but there's no way to create basslines & melodies that differ - so you can't for example play the root on the bass and a melody for a lead...

overall: take a look at my signature and specifically the formula - it's quick guide to how to get the most (versatility in patching) for the least expense & is scalable from the tiniest to the largesst conceivable modular synthesizer...

I'd also seriously recommend going to modwiggler and reading the intoductory pinned threads in the 1u & 3u subforum... and reading as many newbie threads as you can handle...

after that I'd recommend ignoring the size of the case - plan out exactly what modules you want (and those that you actually need to achieve your goals) and then build another rack here and get it checked... and then before buying anything work out the case you need to put it in - leave at least 20% free space - allow 10mA/free hp per rail... them allow at least 25-30% headroom on the power supply (to allow for inrush & potentially bad power specs)

then work out a minimal version of it... a single sound source, a single sound modifier, a single modulation source, some utilties and a sequencer etc and then buy those and start playing with it & learn those inside and out before adding more modules, slowly... and repeat... 1 or 2 modules at a time...

I know this sounds a bit boring, but it'll get you to a better place, quicker than anything else... & for less money!!!

good luck!

EDITED Sep 18th 2023, 14:30

hop

Hi,
Good goals. Go ahead!
Maybe I would change Clep Diaz. With Mimetic, Pipslope and Tides you are pretty covered for now in the modulation aspect.
Maybe you can leave that 4HP space free for now, and see what you need with practice.
Too bad you don't have space for a Pam's, it would give you a lot of additional play in modulation and clock control (divider, burst effect, Euclidean, etc...).

Sounds like you know where you want to go with it.
Have fun and good luck!

Ok, I want to start by saying that, as a noobie, I appreciate all of the perspective, especially on how to get the most out of the voice modules like the Mavis and BIA, as well as the helpful resources for learning more about various modular aspects.

I'm pasting below an update to my rig with the Mavis and a multi-fx (represent the MOOD pedal) outsourced from the palette case so that y'all can get a better image of the expanded system that I was alluding to. However, I realllly have to push back on this notion of an inevitably bigger case. I mentioned "financial and simplicity" as reasons before but this probably deserves to be expanded on, because it doesn't seem to have been taken very seriously, and I hope my own perspective on the creative process can help others that may have found themselves sliding down the slope of endless eurorack investment, or maybe even dragon chasing.

I'm attracted to eurorack for the same reasons I'm attracted to analog photography. The digital world has endless possibilities and I find this not just overwhelming but also uninspiring. I'm coming to eurorack to force myself to think more carefully about music. I want to find a balance between the sounds I'm imagining and the sounds that I can actually produce, as well as discover more creative ways to leverage the gear that I have - not just endlessly buy myself access to new approaches and sounds. I want the music to fundamentally emerge from the constraints, because the more severely that you are constrained, the more creative you have to be. As a noobie, I'm getting the sense that this has become somewhat lost on the eurorack community, but I understand how this can happen after years of investment and rabbit holes.

Obviously we're all fundamentally working with constrains in the eurorack ecosystem, and despite being able to create some really satisfying drones and with the Mavis, there's a reason why I'm planning to expand. I also desire more tones, textures, and flexibility, but the point that I want to say "enough" is probably a little sooner than most. I fully expect to gain interest in modules that won't fit in my case down the line by the way. This is when I will have to make some hard decisions about what to remove from the rack ;)

This is not to say that there is anything actually wrong with buying all the modules you desire. If you have the disposable income and inspiration, go for it. I simply don't want to spend my entire income on this hobby, and it's not how I like to work either. I'm also interested in more than just semi-modular because I want a unique system that I can modify as I go. I also really desire portability. I plan on hauling this system to some renegade parties that I host with friends, and so I want something that will fit in my backpack.

Treat your ears to the album Recur by Emptyset. I saw them perform and attended their forum at Moogfest in 2017 where they elucidated their process, and I found it really enlightening. They largely improvise their music and basically do each track in a single take. Much of what I've written about constraints was inspired by their talk, and their music also accomplishes things that I aspire toward. Despite my lack of experience, I hope that my approach can be respected.

the modular link above was displaying outdated to me for some reason, but in case that's the case for you as well, the following link is what I'm actually working with
https://imgur.com/a/jPjYSHD

With all of that said, I would really look forward to hearing what anyone thinks about the new 62(+)hp system that I've laid out. The Mavis will be in its own self-contained box and the Multi-FX 1U is representing the pedal(s) I can get. This system can now bring in MIDI (most likely from Orca https://100r.co/site/orca.html) with the 1U tile that replaces the attenuators (responsibility shifted to the O/A/X2), and samples can be brought in with the TipTop ONE. The old attenuator module that would have been my mixer has been replaced by a proper mixing module with an extra channel for the sampler (BIA+Mavis+samples), and I've included a bunch of other utility modules to modulate these three voices. Last but not least, Steppy has been replaced with the Mimetic Digitalis, as rightfully suggested.

I still have a lot of reading to do about all of these things but I suspect that the main source of learning will come from hand-on experience with these modules, so I don't really know how far in advance I can realistically plan, but I appreciate any additional input y'all might have :)

EDITED Sep 17th 2023, 18:36

I've been enjoying the new James Blake album a lot and was pleased to see this video from his studio:

I recreated his rack from what I could see in the video. A few modules are too blurry for me to make out what they are, but I think I got most of them right! Posting on here if anyone else is curious.

Hey @JimHowell1970, this gives me a lot to think about, thanks.

NP

For how I'm currently mixing everything I have with a Mackie mixer and so im using the sends for reverb and delay. At one point i was trying to understand if i could just use attenuators to reduce the module output so i could still mix them in my cirrent mixer (this would also let me add effects how im doing it now for the boutique's).

you might find that the Mackie is fine without any attenuation - I used to use a Yamaha module without any and it was fine... the Mackie might have a pad feature that could help - if you experience clipping then just get an inexpensive passive attenuator (they'll always be useful) - a 2hp trim would work fine - as it's set and forget - and if you still have problems then you could try the veils clone, and then if you still have problems investigate output modules - I've never had one in 7 years, though

Your formula in your signature confirms what i was suspecting, that just some sound sources aren't going to take me far enough.
-- sporkandfoon

imo, they're often the least important thing... it's what you do with them and how you modulate the signal path that's important...

have fun!

Hey @JimHowell1970, this gives me a lot to think about, thanks.

Makes sense about the full size Plaits. I definitely like the spaciousness of the Wave over the tiny dials of my other modules right now.

The TB-03 and SH-01a both have clock in (steps their internal sequencer), 1v/oct output and gate output. The TR-06 has 5 trigger outs.

I will look into some veils clones. At a glance that seems good since it also is a mixer?

For how I'm currently mixing everything I have with a Mackie mixer and so im using the sends for reverb and delay. At one point i was trying to understand if i could just use attenuators to reduce the module output so i could still mix them in my cirrent mixer (this would also let me add effects how im doing it now for the boutique's).

Your formula in your signature confirms what i was suspecting, that just some sound sources aren't going to take me far enough.

Solid transaction with @RTFM. Were some issues with courier, but was dealt with smoothly and swiftly. Recommended!

EDITED Sep 16th 2023, 19:01

I'd go for a full size clone if I were you.. much better ergonomics, plaits is small enough already, & you get full size knobs which are better for tuning etc...

maybe a Pams Pro would tick all your boxes, envelopes and synced modulation? as well as many other functions...

does the 03 sequencer output 1v/oct? idk...

take a look at my signature & spend some time thinking about it... especially the formula...

for utilities it's almost impossible to go wrong with a matrix mixer! and a quad cascading vca (veils clone for instance)

& you'll almost definitely want to improve your mixing from a 2hp mixer! thats much better

how are you mixing the rolland boutiques & the modules?

EDITED Sep 16th 2023, 15:39

I have the same case.
Power Consumption: 1836 mA +12V | 971 mA -12V | 90 mA 5V
All good :)

(...) 'Novation's Bass Station filter was designed by Chris Huggett of Wasp and Oscar fame. Here, it's known as 'Classic', a state-variable creation switchable between 12dB and 24dB slopes. Fresh for the BS2, a further switch offers low-, band- and high-pass modes, greatly extending the filter's usefulness. In all modes, you're quickly aware of the edgy but sparkly maximum resonance, and also that it takes just a smidgen of overdrive to squash any fear of lack of balls. Winding the overdrive higher turns the Classic filter into a pleasantly mashed-up monster. It follows that varying combinations of cutoff frequency, resonance and overdrive yield everything from humongous bass to sound effects and shrieks that will vibrate your granny's teeth out, assuming you're heartless enough to expose her to them. Warm, fluffy and Moogy it isn't.

If this were the full story of the filter I'd be content, but it isn't. There's a second filter on board; a diode ladder design called Acid. This 24dB fat boy operates in low-pass mode only and is noticeably darker than the Classic. Its resonance is wetter and smoother, too. I became an instant convert. As both filters react very differently to high levels of overdrive and resonance, you occasionally get the not-unpleasant feeling that two synths are occupying the same space' (...)

(Paul Nagle - Sound On Sound / September 2013).

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/novation-bass-station-2

Just an update for anyone that may stumble across this in the future. I ultimately decided to purchase the new AJH Triple Cross. Three DC-coupled VCAs/crossfaders/panners. I already use a lot of AJH stuff (it's all awesome) and the Triple Cross is geared towards the uses that I had in mind for adding some extra VCAs.

I have a Happy Nerding filter with an 18db Low Pass, also as @Farkas says Doepfer do https://www.signalsounds.com/doepfer-a-103-18db-low-pass-filter-euroack-module-tb-303

I've recently built the combo of TB-O and TB-EFA for some proper 303 action which sound great and quite a bit different to my HNVCF's 18db, the HN is good but the TB-EFA is gnarly and bubbling https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ge0sync-synth-tb-efa

I would rather look for 303 flavour filters to get close to a Bass station filter.

Wow they look and sound great on videos! Well done!
Finally, a designer you respects analog complex LFOs :)

EDITED Sep 16th 2023, 07:49

Hi,

I've got a few Roland boutiques that i like a lot, but would like to extend yheor usage with a modular setup. What i have now is an SH-01A, TR-06 and TB-03. For modules i own a Qu-Bit Wave, 2hp Mix, ALM SBG and an Intellijel Plog. Im thinking of getting a Plaits (probably the Knit), but not sure what else ill need / want beyind that. I expect to use the sequencers from the 06 and 03, but suspect I'll need some envelopes and sequencable modulation sources. I also like the Plog for deriving other triggers/gates from the boutiques.

Any suggestions on what might fill out a setup to complement what ive currently got? I'm definitely just dipping my yoes into the modular world and already feel like i should have done more research, so any help is appreciated.

My recommendation is to start with a few Doepfer modules as they are affordable, sound great and easy to learn. Make Noise stuff is great and I have tons of it but the icons and graphics are confusing to a beginner and learning basics of modulation, how VCAs and filters work is a lot already if new to modular synthesis.

This might be a case where semi-modular is the better option, especially if budget and size are of primary concern. What about the Moog DFAM? It's not going to give you all of the BIA sounds, but does a lot that BIA doesn't. More hands-on, still within the Moog ecosystem since you enjoy Mavis, and it's a techno beast. You could always add a small-ish modulation/effects rack to compliment the Moogs...
Something to consider.

my tesseract tex-mix also has jacks at the top... at least on the channels modules...

I think one of the major issues, to me, is that a lot of companies that are established and then try to get into the eurorack market, take a look at modules that exist, and based on what's out there, realise there's nothing wrong with doing whatever they feel like... and because they have't got a lot of modular experience, or biggish modulars themselves, don't think about a lot of simple design issues... whereas an experienced modular synthesist, with a fairl big rack would have gone... no I don't like the jack placement, or you need to do this, because... maybe that happened & maybe they just didn't listen...

b-company could have made their modules slightly better (nuts on jacks etc) and marketed under another of their brands (tc electronic for example) & modernised modules slightly to be more easily compatible with euroracl (v-trigger/s-trigger) and just cloned open source modules - without trying to add value, poorly - instead of ripping off intellijel and make noise modules and moog semis - that are still in production - they'd have got more respect from a lot of us if they'd done that...

strymon modules could do with more modulation inputs... but that may be related to the sharc chip... although I'm not sure that's the case - given the number of knobs and you caan just add a jack to the pot in hardware... so possibly down to how much space they would have taken...

z vex could have probably got away adding some extra modulation inputs and used their chinese fab (the one that makes their vexter range) - as they seem reliable and have been made for years - and made cheaper modules that would have sold enough to still warrant making them...

I think z.vex modules were made by malekko, or another known manufacturer (I don't think it was darkspace/wmd though), so maybe it was a case of not listening, or just wanting to get something out quickly.. idk...

there was also waldorf... their modules were, iirc, too big for the limited functionality...

so... other companies that want to get into the eurorack business, from a related existing business, take heed... spend some money on a proper consultant... and pay them enough that it's worth actually listening to them...

...SO WHY ARE THE JACKS AT THE BOTTOM??? WHO MIXES AT THE TOP OF THEIR RACK LMAO??

If this makes it out of concept they better fix the layout seriously
-- maincy

You’re right, it’s a shame. But a lot of modules have this configuration, including some of the most acclaimed! This is an error especially when there is a need for frequent manipulations such as with mixers, controllers, sequencers.

Fortunately there are modules that ‘save the honour’ :) Performance Mixer, Hexmix, Tetrapad, Planar2, A-174-4, Pressure Points, René, Stochastic Inspiration Generator, Eloquencer, Voltage Block, etc.

Otherwise, the right angle patch cables can facilitate accessibility...

*Edit - Just saw that Jim posted at the same time I did. I agree with all of Jim's thoughts regarding small racks.

hahahahaha.... great minds etc....

I agree with all of this. You will want and need a bigger case before you know it. To get the most out of any module, you will find the need for supporting modules. Supporting modules take up space. Imagine all of the functions in a fixed architecture synth or groovebox and then realize that you will need a lot of those functions, sometimes multiple copies of each function. Bigger case than you think you need is pretty much rule #1 in modular land.

I'd go so far as to say that in lots of ways the supporting modules, modulation sources and utilities, are actually the most important modules - as they are how you gain control over the other modules!!!

Tweaking by hand is fun, but you only have two hands. BIA will require about six hands to get interesting grooves happening.

and lightening fast reactions - so you can change from kick to snare to whatever, on each beat - exhausting just thinking about it!!!!

I used the Voltage Block to get cool stuff happening when I had BIA. That's 8 lanes of sequenced modulation in 20hp, not to mention a gate source...

exactly!

How will you be mixing? Do you want to automate volume and panning? Mixers, VCAs, and more modulation sources can help with this.

and again... exactly!

Unfortunately, minimal systems usually offer minimal results. The modular world will quickly eat up a lot of space and your bank account, so make sure you understand each part of what you're getting into. What is it that a tiny incomplete eurorack is offering that a groovebox with sequencer or fixed architecture synth doesn't offer?
Have fun and good luck!

-- farkas

in other words: not to put you off, but much more research, thought and budget is almost definitely required before considering this pusuit!

To begin with, you will need some modulation sources. BIA needs a lot of modulation to shine. You could replace Steppy (it only generates triggers) with a NE Mimetic digitalis type sequencer (triggers and CV), which fits very well with BIA
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-engineering-mimetic-digitalis-black
Pam's also gives you many trigger/modulation options.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/alm-busy-circuits-alm017-pamela-s-new-workout.
With the limited space you have, and given that the two voices are "complete" in themselves, perhaps you would not need a filter, but I would add some effects module (delay / reverb) and the leftover space some VCA, mixer for CV ....but I would definitely start with a bigger case.

-- ferranadsr

I agree with all of this. You will want and need a bigger case before you know it. To get the most out of any module, you will find the need for supporting modules. Supporting modules take up space. Imagine all of the functions in a fixed architecture synth or groovebox and then realize that you will need a lot of those functions, sometimes multiple copies of each function. Bigger case than you think you need is pretty much rule #1 in modular land.
Tweaking by hand is fun, but you only have two hands. BIA will require about six hands to get interesting grooves happening. I used the Voltage Block to get cool stuff happening when I had BIA. That's 8 lanes of sequenced modulation in 20hp, not to mention a gate source...
How will you be mixing? Do you want to automate volume and panning? Mixers, VCAs, and more modulation sources can help with this.
Unfortunately, minimal systems usually offer minimal results. The modular world will quickly eat up a lot of space and your bank account, so make sure you understand each part of what you're getting into. What is it that a tiny incomplete eurorack is offering that a groovebox with sequencer or fixed architecture synth doesn't offer?
Have fun and good luck!

*Edit - Just saw that Jim posted at the same time I did. I agree with all of Jim's thoughts regarding small racks.

EDITED Sep 15th 2023, 10:22

We are glad to announce that Nekyia has started it's modular journey by releasing 4 new modules!

We are looking forward to get some feedback on our designs!

https://nekyiacircuits.com/

EDITED Sep 15th 2023, 10:09

to add to what @ferranadsr has said

I recently bought a MOOG Mavis to test the eurorrack waters and got inspired to take the plunge. Given my love for this thing, I'm planning to build the rest of my system around it, but within some serious constraints. I want this to be a fairly minimal system for financial and simplicity reasons, so I'm planning to get a 4u palette case (not negotiable)

I think this is utter folly, why? - see below - but if you absolutely must only have 4u - then get the biggest version there is - the 104hp... personally I'd suggest bigger, still... you will need it eventually and eventually is often much sooner than you think... remember, there is absolutely no need whatsover to fill a case - there are always blank panels and there are always cereal boxes (or similar) that can substitute for blank panels... the tiny cases are great for influencers to showcase individual modules with limited patching options and they're great as satellite, mission specific cases - sequencer, control surface etc, but as main synth cases - not so much...

Considering the constraints, I've included a pedal i/o to connect it with what will most likely be a MOOD effects pedal for some thicc reverb and looping potential. https://www.chasebliss.com/mood-mkii I've also secured a deal for a BIA and Noise Tools 1U from Craig's. Figured Steppy is a must-have for this system too, so the whole bottom rack is kind of locked in (ignoring the Mavis probably vacating).

if you wan BIA to do all your percussion for you - ie you want to use it as a percussion factory - I seriously recommend a jasmine and olive traffic module - it will allow you to program changes in the sounds of BIA...

I'm not convinced steppy is the going to do exactly what you want - please describe exactly what you envisage doing with steppy... it generates triggers - 4 of them, with only 2 places to send them...

BIA - I don't own one, but just from looking at it I can tell, that it massively benefits from modulation, something you don't have a lot of (other than some random from noise tools)... and modulation sources benefit from attenuation, attenuversion/offset... that you don't have any of if you are using the duatt as a mixer, which you will be - as you don't have any other mixer in the rack...

the effect pedal is stereo, yet you can only send/return a mono signal... is this a constraint you find acceptable? if not the you need a different interface and a way to take your mono sound sources and place them in the stereo field...

I've never built a system before and I still don't understand a lot of the utility of different components utilities like VCAs, although I hear they're pretty hot. That being said, I'm really looking for feedback about how this system could work as designed, what could/should be changed, and what the longer term potential is with whatever components that might eventually backfill the MOOG's 44hp. Ideally though, I'd like to create some music like I described with the Mavis in place for now, but please let me know if that's unrealistic. Thank you!
-- natural_causes

Seriously I'd do some research on the fundamentals of synthesis before commiting any money... ie what's a VCA, what's a filter, what's a wavefolder etc etc - the pinned topics at the top of the moduwiggler 1u& 3u subforum are a very good place to start...

NOW The Hard Part:

I don't think that you're going to be able to achieve what you want from these modules... I'm assuming that you're going to want to use the BIA as a one stop percussion factory... ok no problem - as long as you have something to change the 'program' on BIA in a purposeful way... but you haven't - see my recommendation of the Traffic module above (this is effectively what it's designed for - you can program in voltage changes that allow you to get repeatable prgoram changes on modules that can benefit from it BIA and Plaits, for instance)...

your mixing solution is poor... how are you going to mix the outputs of the BIA, the Mavis AND the pedal return... what are you going to send to the pedal, just the Mavis? just the BIA? and how are you going to listen? just on headphones or a 'laptop expansion speaker'? are you happy with mono only? see above for - modulation that needs attenuating...

Some further wisdom - from years of experience with modulars - buy a much bigger case than you think you'll need to start with... it will save you money in the long run... larger cases are cheaper per hp than tiny cases... you will get GAS & you will need it... not only this, but just taking the example of the Traffic module... there are modules you think you want and there are modules that you haven't even started to think about that you will need in order to get the most out of the modules you think you want... and to some extent the modules you want can end up being miserable without the ones you need...

take a look at my signature... think about it, think about it deeply... it's years of experience condensed into a few words... especially the formula... which is a quick guide to how to get the most versatility in patching, from the least cash...

ignore the case size for now and spend some time working out what you think you'll want (ie more than just a single voice and a percussion factory) in say a years, maybe twos, time and what you will need in order to actually get the modules to work together & then get that sanity checked... & then find and buy - or build the case on that including at least 20-30% expansion room (you will need it - estimate power consumption for unfilled space at 10mA per rail per hp) and then allow 25-30% for overhead - to work out how much power you actually need... and then get a case that fulfills those needs - hp and power...

in other words build the case around the modules that you think you will want and those that you will need in order to support them - don't try cramming modules into a tiny case - ergonomics will be shit and/or functionality will be poor - leading to a miserable experience... which can only be remedied by either spending money or selling up!

a very large proportion of people who ignore this advice buy another, bigger case within 6-12 months of buying their 1st case...

this is exactly what I did... I started with a tiny case (6u/72hp) & within 6 months it was full so I bought another bigger case, and then a few months later I started building a case - it was shoddy and consisted of planks of wood held together by blank panels and modules, but it worked - & I got better at building cases... years later I have over 1800hp of cases, mostly filled... but if I'd bought the bigger case to start with I think there's a good chance I wouldn't have gone past that - except for the discovery of video modules - which is another story entirely

Now I'm not suggesting that you spend your life savings in one go - I'm suggesting that you think ahead a bit, probably slightly. further ahead than next week or next month though... if you desperately want a BIA buy it now... they were recently discontinued, due to the chips used in them being end of lifed...

but do realise that in starting this you are probably going to be commiting a large portion of your disposable income for years to come to this - ie your current methods of entertainment: beer, drugs, transvestite hookers, cult memberships (whatever, I don't care & neither should you - they're only examples) will take a backseat... that 100 (insert local currency) is a module, not n beers, for example!!

EDITED Sep 15th 2023, 10:00

Hi,
To begin with, you will need some modulation sources. BIA needs a lot of modulation to shine. You could replace Steppy (it only generates triggers) with a NE Mimetic digitalis type sequencer (triggers and CV), which fits very well with BIA
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-engineering-mimetic-digitalis-black
Pam's also gives you many trigger/modulation options.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/alm-busy-circuits-alm017-pamela-s-new-workout.
With the limited space you have, and given that the two voices are "complete" in themselves, perhaps you would not need a filter, but I would add some effects module (delay / reverb) and the leftover space some VCA, mixer for CV ....but I would definitely start with a bigger case.

I want to make crushing, dissonant, and choatic sounds to dance to in a rack designed for live performances on somewhat of a budget. Think Tim Hecker, Fuck Buttons, The Knife, Wolf Eyes.

I recently bought a MOOG Mavis to test the eurorrack waters and got inspired to take the plunge. Given my love for this thing, I'm planning to build the rest of my system around it, but within some serious constraints. I want this to be a fairly minimal system for financial and simplicity reasons, so I'm planning to get a 4u palette case (not negotiable) within which the Mavis will initially sit. I will probably remove the Mavis down the line to make space for other modules and just patch it back into the rack from the side, but this is where I'd like it to initially be.

Considering the constraints, I've included a pedal i/o to connect it with what will most likely be a MOOD effects pedal for some thicc reverb and looping potential. https://www.chasebliss.com/mood-mkii I've also secured a deal for a BIA and Noise Tools 1U from Craig's. Figured Steppy is a must-have for this system too, so the whole bottom rack is kind of locked in (ignoring the Mavis probably vacating).

I've never built a system before and I still don't understand a lot of the utility of different components utilities like VCAs, although I hear they're pretty hot. That being said, I'm really looking for feedback about how this system could work as designed, what could/should be changed, and what the longer term potential is with whatever components that might eventually backfill the MOOG's 44hp. Ideally though, I'd like to create some music like I described with the Mavis in place for now, but please let me know if that's unrealistic. Thank you!

This is absolutely perfect for my needs, and as much as I don't like Behringer, this could be what I was looking for...

...SO WHY ARE THE JACKS AT THE BOTTOM??? WHO MIXES AT THE TOP OF THEIR RACK LMAO??

If this makes it out of concept they better fix the layout seriously

Yeah, I have VCV rack just never got around to actually using it with hardware... Clicking with mouse is what I'm trying to reduce.
-- ratman77531

I hear that... I'm also trying to find my own way to reduce the computer as much as possible. I just didn't want to start suggesting buying more modules when you're already set up for the free stuff.

But if already have GAS, then you really can't go wrong with more VCAs, and a utilities "swiss army knife" type module. I really meshed with uOrnaments and Crime running Hemispheres - it provides some very interesting functions and has both a shift register and a quantizer, wonderful for "psychodelic-like weird" stuff, and only 8 hp. With the remainder you could do something like Happy Nerding's 3xVCA (6hp), or maybe even a 2hp dual VCA leaving room for a dual LPG for plucky sounds and variety. There's really a number of ways to use the extra hp depending on your goals, but I think VCAs and utilities are what you should focus on.

Good luck!

I recently released a matrix mixer; not as small as some of the others you mention, I'm afraid, though it does have built in passive mults on all ports which should help save some routing space, or splitters at least.
happy-hardware.com
-- happy-hardware

Hi @happy-hardware...

I like the mults, especially on the inputs!

had aquick read through of the description, but couldn't see hp or power requirements - but I might just be blind!!!

also are the trimmers full height ones - so compatible with the thonk trimmer toppers?

Jim

-- JimHowell1970

It's 18hp, and typically draws sub 10mA at 12V iirc
Yep, tall trimmers.

Aren't there a few different filter types on the BassStation 2? You might find a small collection of inexpensive Doepfer filters would get you in the same ballpark. The A102, A103, and A124 might be good candidates. I've enjoyed every Doepfer filter I've used.
Let us know what you decide. Have fun and good luck!

Thanks JimHowell1970.

So I'm running it into an 8 channel mixer. It's fine I guess. Maybe nombres to waste HP on it. Probably more the 303 going in that's the issue. That would be good as I can then invest a toy (or two) to add to the subharmonicon.

Thanks! I meant to say I'm waiting for Batumi expander to be delivered. :)
I suppose the aim is to get good at René and experiment with weird plucky/snappy arps/sequences and make some fun complement to Analog Rytm and preferably not easy to anticipate, and maybe a bit psychodelic-like weird stuff with Morphagene.
Yeah, I have VCV rack just never got around to actually using it with hardware... Clicking with mouse is what I'm trying to reduce.

EDITED Sep 14th 2023, 22:01

Hmmm, guess I didn't see the expander... Without VCV rack or similar then you will want to consider some further utilities for the remaining 15 hp that you have. What are you aiming for with this rack? In any case, I recommend s/h (I really like After Later's SHTH, which is quite powerful in 2 hp), more vca's (happy nerding 3xVCA or a veils clone), and maybe something further swiss army knives like like Frap Tools 321 or SSF Toolbox if you can still find one.

Also, if you've already got the ES-9 and Ableton, might as well get VCV Rack, it's free afterall. It will open up a lot of potential utilities so you can see which ones you use the most.

-- HGsynth
Are you using the ES-9 to connect with VCV rack or other software? If so, this thing looks pretty beastly and you can get what's I'd say is missing virtually. However, if not, or just because you have the blank panel spaces, I could suggest the Batumi expander, which gives you access to more LFO shapes, and some other utilities or random voltage generators? Things like mutes or routers might make this more interactive and fun to play, as well.

-- HGsynth

Noted - I actually have Batumi expander in the post [as in shipping]!
ES-9 just for Ableton Live, haven't used with VCV Rack yet. It's probably an overkill but nice to be able to send CVs and record with a bunch of channels (half of which I don't really use).

EDITED Sep 14th 2023, 19:03

I really like the filter on my Novation BassStation 2 and I was wondering what might be comparable in eurorack. I have a Hexinverter Red Dragon, SSF Stereo Dipole and WMD C4rbn. The WMD is probably closest. I feel like the BassStation sounds fatter, and the sweeps are more dynamic. Any suggestions are welcome.

Modular is Sh!t you should get a Banjo!

Looks like a pretty sound rack to me.
-- wishbonebrewery

Agree, banjo's rule.

Are you using the ES-9 to connect with VCV rack or other software? If so, this thing looks pretty beastly and you can get what's I'd say is missing virtually. However, if not, or just because you have the blank panel spaces, I could suggest the Batumi expander, which gives you access to more LFO shapes, and some other utilities or random voltage generators? Things like mutes or routers might make this more interactive and fun to play, as well.

Modular is Sh!t you should get a Banjo!

Looks like a pretty sound rack to me.

I recently released a matrix mixer; not as small as some of the others you mention, I'm afraid, though it does have built in passive mults on all ports which should help save some routing space, or splitters at least.
happy-hardware.com
-- happy-hardware

Hi @happy-hardware...

I like the mults, especially on the inputs!

had aquick read through of the description, but couldn't see hp or power requirements - but I might just be blind!!!

also are the trimmers full height ones - so compatible with the thonk trimmer toppers?

Jim