Just saw these. Uhm...yeah. Now, let me get this straight...

The 'low end' version is over US$500. When eBay shows the real thing hovering in the US$300-ish range. Sure, it's umpty-gazillion dollars over in the EU...but that was also where the concept of the $2000 TB-303 came from, and while I thought (and still think) that was insane, anyone paying more than about $350 for a minty-fresh NOS Minipops of any series needs to be fitted for a straight-jacket. Just because Aphex used one on "Syro" (somewhere) doesn't mean that possessing one makes you Aphex. And yes, this does take clock in/out...but Tubbutech has a MIDI mod that gives you MIDI control for EUR 140-ish of the actual thing.

But then, the 'high end' MP7 comes with a lot of silliness...mainly, the whole triggering scheme. In order to work with the triggering, you will need adapters to go to TRS 3.5mm plugs, because while the input triggering is between tip and sleeve, Nabla opted to put the trigger-out from the MP7's wired-pattern sequencer between the ring and sleeve. Why is this important? OK, follow me for a sec...

Let's say you're triggering the MP7's internal voices via the tip-sleeve connection. Which, of course, means that the entire patch-plane is the 'ground' and the actual trigger pulses are on the tip, and the outputs from the MP7's triggers (on the ring) are cold. What's wrong here? OK...if you are using (like everyone else in Eurorack) a TS 3.5mm patchcord, then there is a bit of a risk of sending backwards voltage into the MP7's sequencer, but that's only if things are a bit miswired coming from the external sequencer sending the pulses. No...the REAL, dead-on-certs danger is what can happen should you accidentally start the MP7's own sequencer and send ITS triggers back down your connection. Miswiring here now has the ability to reverse-voltage the external sequencer! And by 'miswiring', I mean something akin to pulling a patchcord while the MP7's sequencer is on, allowing the Ring terminal in the jack to momentarily contact the Tip of the cord's plug. Expensive external trigger sequencer module go BOOM if it doesn't have diode protection on its outputs!!! This is, in fact, the PRECISE reason why we don't use 3-conductor jacks/plugs in patchng architecture, Nabla!

While I can appreciate the effort from a startup company, guys, PLEASE try and understand why things work the way they do in the Eurorack standard! No one, for one thing, is going to be jazzed about the prewired patterns; they're going to want to do their own sequencing, otherwise they would've already gotten (such as I have) rhythm boxes for that sort of purpose. Secondly, if the sounds are the important thing, then why not just make a soundbank module such as so many other companies do? No sequencer, no reverse voltage hazard (other than the usual ones), just sounds. You could even stereo-bus this, add some pan-pots on bus side of the voice circuits, with the additional solo-out defeats. And THAT actually would be a welcome addition to the drum-module constellation. Not this...since it has "potential damage liability" wired into its design. C'mon...do this right, not like this.

EDITED Jun 25th 2018, 02:38

Always appreciate your input, Lugia.

Not sure why you'd think Plan #1 would be a 'waste' if you went further into modular. After all, the 0-Coast is patchable, works with the typical CV/gate standards so it can be integrated with a modular rig, and is pretty cheap + a good start-point for learning. I would strongly suggest you consider something along those lines, in fact, before plunging in over your head in the complexity and CO$T of modular synths. Otherwise, even if price isn't a problem, you run the risk of finding yourself in a position akin to taking Driver's Ed 101 behind the wheel of a Bentley Mulsanne. Not a good idea. Whereas an 0-Coast is more akin to doing the above with a used Lexus, by comparison. It does what you need, it's still really nice, and you can build on the experience gained from that if/when you want to step up to something super-expensive and ultra-powered.

Modular looks sexy. Yes. But many of us who're used to large-scale rigs started off on the equivalents of the 0-Coast, sometimes many years back, and got to this point...not started at it. It's very trendy right now...but for a lot of people who don't know the intricacies, it's trendy sort of like how pigs as pets got trendy after the movie "Babe" came out. Looks like a good idea, but the reality may include certain flaws that weren't on the big screen.

So, start with patchable prebuilds. While you learn to use them, study why the 'classic' synths (some which have been reissued, even) are exactly that: benchmarks by which synth gear is measured. Learn by doing FIRST...THEN take the full-on magic plastic-burning plunge!

A couple of others worth looking at along these same lines might be the Orthogonal ER-301 and the Mordax GXN (when it drops in a few months). Also, if going outboard for manipulation is possible, a Tasty Chips GR-1 might also fit the bill.

Bought a Ginko Grains from @owbotic
Befaco A*B+C from @solipsistnation
Peaks from @synthetictheory

And sold a Doepfer A-184-1 to @omer1789

All smooth and painless transactions, all modules as described.

EDITED Jun 24th 2018, 22:49

I appreciate these descriptions! Because of the range of experimentation that the morphagene provides, and its ability to incorporate field recording samples into the mix, I'm leaning more in that direction. I never thought of the clouds as a kind of one-trick pony, but I agree that the one trick it does is a really cool one!

I am new to the morphagene and still have a lot to learn, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. I have both clouds and morphagene, and love them both for very different reasons. So far, the way that I see it is for interesting live manipulation that doesn't require much work, clouds is superior. For intricate sample based sound design, morphagene wins by a landslide. The workflow that morphagene thrives in is recording audio, then manipulating it, whereas clouds wins as a live granular effect. That being said, I honestly find clouds kind of boring because there is not that much that it can do (however what it does it does very well and it sounds great), where morphagene is an endless pit of possibilities where every day you can discover something new and amazing. Just my two cents!

Hi Everyone,

I'm interested in cinematic, evolving soundscape work, and I'm debating between waiting for the new version of clouds or breaking down and getting a morphagene. I understand that these are two very different modules, but I'm primarily interested in live granular manipulation. The brain of my setup is a digitakt, but I don't see the sample functionality of the morphagene as redundant. (Is this correct? The DT's capabilities are huge, but it won't do what the morphagene does, at least not as easily).

I've got 22 free hp. The new clouds is rumored to be 14, so that's a big bonus.

Curious to know everyone's thoughts, especially folks who are interested in ambient, soundscape-type music.

Thanks!

Hi, I’m expanding to 9u and I need some advice. The top 2 rows are my current set up and the bottom row is my wish list.

AWM-3 I have a few voices which I wanna add interest to. Plus I want to mix VCOs together in nice smooth analogue chords. Any thoughts on this?

Batumi LFO. The lovely Molten modular man says he uses it to modulate everything, where as I have rather limited LFOness ATM. Any thoughts on this?

An attempt to adapt the twelve-tone technique to an electronic track.

Where can I get this? Or at least the front panel?

EDITED Sep 6th 2018, 07:09

I've been a musician for years and only now have I fallen, and fallen hard for modular.

I have the Moog DFAM and Mother-32 already along with Braids, Maths, Quad VCA, and Rings. The other modules I've added as possibilities based on forum posts or youtube videos of musicians composing the modular music I'm striving to create (melodic, ambient, etc.).

Before I get to carried away, I would like opinions and suggestions.

Thanks!

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_675786.jpg

EDITED Jun 24th 2018, 07:33

Added that 60HP of space to my Mother 32 stack and, thanks to a good friend, racked Maths and Veils. Have spent the last two days reading, learning, and playing. Planning to expand things slowly as I progress, but not in a hurry (thank you for solid advice @Lugia). Having a great deal of fun learning and exploring.

Reached the point this afternoon where I felt comfortable putting something together, working towards adding depth and shape to the M32's without losing what I like about their personality. Used Gate output from the M32 to trigger Maths, working with Rise, Fall, Response Curve, and routing through Veils back to VCF cutoff on one of the M32's. Ran sequences on two M32's for bass and bleeps, then again for the intertwined leads. A little bit of reverb by Valhalla. Need to find and eliminate a slight hiss lurking somewhere in my mixing setup.

EDITED Jun 23rd 2018, 23:38

4ms Row Power 40, perhaps? Schneidersladen stocks those, and they've got a bit more current headroom than the uZeus.

So I do not own any modular equipment at the moment, but do have a korg minilogue, and a sampler.
I think i have worked out how to get enough money together to make that start on the modular scene.

I don't want to make a subtractive synth from scratch. To be honest, I don't think i want a filter, at least not yet. I am really interested in different ways of analogue synthesis, especially with the more west coast/left-field style of Make Noise's modules. I like the complex harmonics, the analogue FM synthesis and circular modulation.. Maybe one of you guys knows alternative/cheaper options in this flavour?

So I have three ideas in ascending price:

1. is to just get a Make Noise 0-coast and play with that a bit and see where it goes. However, I am worried that if I go modular after that, it will feel like time and money wasted..

2. is to make a modular based on my favourite Make Noise modules, basically an 0-coast on steroids.. see image.
   
   Wondering if this might miss the point of modular focusing on one thing so much. I don't know a wide range of manufacturers or styles yet. Also I need seasoned eurorackers to tell me what utilities I'm missing.

3. I thought maybe I would simplify any issue of filters, basic oscillators, power, keyboard control, etc. by getting this interesting looking arturia modular bundle:
   https://www.gear4music.de/en/Keyboards-and-Pianos/Arturia-MiniBrute-2-with-6U-RackBrute/2AQF
   This appeals to me because it looks like I could integrate a solid subtractive monosynth with the stranger additive modules of make noise, and then build it up from there, without having to worry too much about getting all the basics individually. What do you guys think?

EDITED Jun 23rd 2018, 22:58

So I guess an alternative could be a tip-top studio bus or 2?

Trogotronic looks great, but unfortunately I'm in the UK and no one seems to stock these. I wonder if there is a comparable European thing ?

I started to wonder what the Sub37 would look like if it was built all out of Eurorack... so I planned it out as a thought experiment.
Wow I think it would be quite a beast, and it makes me appreciate just how much you get in the box!

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_690139.jpg

--and back to the topic of the actual thread..
I found shooting different envelopes from my DFAM/modular into the Sub37 Filter input sounds awesome BTW.. Also, sending pitch CV from a quantizer lets the Sub37 change keys along with the modular, so that works if you can solo in C on keys. While it might not integrate fully with a modular, with some creative patching it can really sound integrated.

Hope that helps!

Actually, you might want to think ahead and look at Trogotronic's power supply system. Massive current capacity, and not expensive. Since Trogotronic has a lot of tube designs in the module lines, they should know a thing or two about supplying high current loads. Plus, something of that sort should be good to go for quite some time; all you'd need to do is to keep daisy-chaining passive power modules of some variety to deal with even a very large rig.

The Mix4 makes the most sense to me. You need some way to mix those VCOs, for starters, and the Mir is clearly going to be busy doing things later in the signal flow.

So it looks like I'll eventually need more power than a single uZeus. I'm thinking of going maximum 9U at 84HP. What's a good plan. After my research I'm thinking 4MS Row Power 40 daisy chained to a Row Power 30 and selling my uZeus. Anyone got any other solutions that are good value for money?

Super stoked about this. After about a year and change in the modular world, I'm finally approaching a finished rack. It's mostly for sound design to be used and manipulated later in ableton, but I do like the occasional rambling jams. I have 3hp left, where I was debating pico drums, or a malekko mix4 or noise. All would be helpful. Any suggestions? Great community, couldn't have done it without this place.

I got the info from the renewal confirmation email. See screenshot.

Thanks that is helpful!
It's like I thought, the value is saved correct in the db but the output in the email is just "today +1y".
Will fix it soon.

You provide an awesome resource for free and a useful set of enhancements for next to nothing. I'm extremely satisfied.

Thanks for kind words!

Ah, OK...good to know. Thanks for the quick response.

I got the info from the renewal confirmation email. See screenshot.

Just to reiterate: I'm 100% confident that you weren't trying to cheat anyone, that this wasn't intentional. You provide an awesome resource for free and a useful set of enhancements for next to nothing. I'm extremely satisfied.

This is an embarrassing bug I thought I had already fixed some time ago.
Strange thing: I have checked your account. It looks o.k. to me, it will expire on June 27.

I processed my renewal and discovered that my unicorn account is now valid until June 21, 2019

Where did you get that info?

I think (well, kind of hope) it just displays the wrong date but enters the right one in the database. Of course I don't want to cheat you guys.

Thanks for supporting!

I received a message yesterday (June 20) informing me that my unicorn account would expire soon (June 27) and encouraging me to renew. Just now (June 21), I processed my renewal and discovered that my unicorn account is now valid until June 21, 2019, meaning that I'm essentially paying double for the next few days and losing a few days from the annual cycle.

Now, don't get me wrong. MG.net is wonderful, and the cost of a yearly account is marginal (let alone the cost of a few days). All in all, I'm getting an utterly unique service 24/7 at a price that compares favorably with one decent lunch in Manhattan (where I work). I don't want to make a mountain out of this molehill, and I'm sure that there was no bad intent. I'd just suggest to the webmaster team to amend the system so that purchased renewals begin upon the expiration of the previous period, not before.

Many thanks for all the excellent work you've done to support the global modular synth community.

EDITED Jun 21st 2018, 16:31

If you stick to things in the smaller range from companies like 2hp, Ladik, Erica, Zlob, etc, you can still jam a load of functionality into that third tier. Right now, you've got 24 hp to go after the Maths, Veils, and a uZeus go in, but with the very tiny stuff, you can do a lot. One thing to be careful of, however, is module depths; as I recall, the maximum depth on the Moog 60hp boats is not too generous, so you'll have to be very careful with that one limitation.

This is very helpful and makes a lot of sense. I should have mentioned that I already have Maths and Veils (given to me by a friend who has moved from modular to DAW/software) but can understand and work with the layout you've created here.

Earlier today, I found a list of Mother 32 "limitations" from user luketeaford, many of which you mentioned, some that I hadn't realized yet:

• Bipolar LFO
• Difficult to slew (I thought: use LPF, but obviously causes issues)
• No attenuversion (Could use mixer, not sexy)
• Clock division/multiplication requires special menu
• Can't operate on any clock signal
• Immutable duty cycle of square LFO
• No comparator
• No sample and hold
• No logic
• No envelope modulation

Again, what you've put together here is very helpful and gets me headed in a sensible direction. With Maths and Veils sitting next to me, I'll go over all of this again several times and see what I can come up with.

Much appreciated and thank you.

Clock and random are there up in the tile row. And while the Frames can work as an audio VCA, you really need a couple more linear, DC-coupled ones for controlling CV levels. The Quad VCA comes to mind mainly because you can also sum signals with it, but there's plenty of other options that can do much the same.

Well, what you should probably do is to start off by considering what the M32s don't have. And yes, they're missing a good bit. They have no ring modulators, for example. No sample & hold, either. The EGs are three-stage, so no release time constants on the envelopes. No separate VCAs. This is the 'bin' from which you need to calculate what should go in the 60 hp third cab.

Next, what DO the M32s have? VCF, check...and quite good ones, too. VCOs? Hmmm...just one each, actually. LFO, yep. Sequencer, yep. Slew limiter...mmm, kinda, as it's sort of hardwired. Mixing...eh, not multichannel. MIDI, yup. Output stage is there. OK...

Now, consider the first part above, and think about what you want to do. Is this rig for a specific sort of music? More of an open-ended idea? Your comments sort of indicate that the situation's more toward the latter, so...let's go from that. Gimme a bit...

OK...dig this:

Like you noted: nothing flashy. Instead, this is some extra control-type stuff that augments what the M32s do best, by filling in some of the gaps that the M32s have. The only audio thing in this is (technically, as the added mixer and VCAs are for control signals, optimally) the Intellijel uMod. This gets you a lot closer to the generative-type zone, also, since you have extra LFOs and EGs, S&H, a comparator, Doepfer's weird-but-neat Morph Controller, and a couple of VCSs, which are basically half of a Maths apiece. With the addition of all of this, you can push the M32s around in ways that the stock versions of these simply cannot do.

EDITED Jun 20th 2018, 22:51

Haven't taken the plunge into modular until now. Have stayed in the "semi-modular" end of the pool. Acquired a rack for my two Moog Mother 32's, with 60HP free up top, and thought this is a good time to wade deeper. My goal is to add another VCO, VCA's, EG's, a solid utility, and some things to play around with while doing the ambient/generative thing (but not boxed into that style).

Here's a bit of patching/twisting last night with the two M32's using a patch by A.W. (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/patches/view/33329)

Anyhow, there's a strong likelihood of moving everything into a larger home later, but I want to take my time and...

1: Learn it right
2: Do it right
3. Avoid flashy things I don't need

Buffered mult, because I'm of the understanding that the Mother 32's don't play nicely. On the side: Minitaur (Isn't modular, standalone unit), pedals (Eventide Space, Hall of Fame, Flashback), Logic Pro.

Honest feedback appreciated. I get the basics, but this is my first try with modular.

EDITED Jun 20th 2018, 03:43

Hey Wedoh,

I was in a very similar position a while back and a number of folks on here helped me out with some good advice (esp. Lugia). I wanted to make ambient, generative patches with a 7u synthrotek case. I'm sharing a picture of my rig just for reference purposes. I own all of these modules, save for the Disting, Plaits, and a few of the 1u tiles. Happy to share my thoughts on specific modules and patches if you're interested.

It sounds like you're not using the right software with it. Try the ES-8 with either Expert Sleepers' Silent Way (Windows) or MOTU's Volta (Mac) as a gateway/translator. The ES-8 is designed for that sort of software, something that can send a signal to a DC-coupled audio interface (which is what the ES-8 is) and the module converts that into the proper CV/gate/trig calls on its end. Even with a plugin like Reaktor, you're still going to need to use something of that sort that knows how to address the ES-8 properly.

Cheapla

Thanks to @PinPinKula I got a µClouds.
Highly recomended !

you could try vcvrack it's free and works with es8 - or silent way (which should show up as a plugin in ableton)

I think it works the other way around. The resellers sign up for specific manufacturers. No?

Re organised trying to balance functions, brands and colours.... I think I am finally there :)

Kinda difficult to do a Buchla-esque poly modular for $3k. Plus, what you have there isn't going to work because there's a lot of parts missing...no VCAs, the CV input section of the VC Mixer is missing, no output stage, etc. And since West Coast systems tend to use complex oscillators (pricey), just four single VCOs isn't going to get you there.

As for generative, that can get even spendier, since then you're in the realm of multiple modulation sources, random sources, sequencers, quantizers, logic, and so forth. In theory, you could fit it into 2x84 hp like the above, but you'd have to use a lot of very small-space modules, and it would wind up turning into a patchcord thicket. Put that together with the polyphony, and you've arrived at a system that's much larger than the cab above, and which costs quite a bit more than $3k CDN. You might want to scale this idea down somewhat...

Off-rack cables go to an SQ-1: (from top to bottom) A Out CV, A Out Gate, and Sync In. There is also a Boss RV-6 Reverb that can be set to Delay, Hall, Plate, or Spring modes

Im new to all of this. I am trying to make something polyphonic (buchla) for under 3000 cad$ any proposals or recomandations? What modules would benefit me better?

Ps. I am looking for a system that allows me to make something generative. This rack is only a first idea, i am not sure if it is complete or fonctionnal

Oh indeed! It can be any size, 84 seemed an easy standard to find. 7Ux126HP is a bit larger than I am ready for just yet, all that empty space will drive me nuts and lead me to want to expand too fast.

I picked 84HP to try to limit my build out of the system. I guess I'll end up with a hermit-crab like series of slightly
larger shells that way. Maybe there will be someone else out there that wants a wood 84HP box at the end of this journey... I could post pictures of the build as it goes, I have the DFAM + 60HP currently mounted with plywood sides that copy the 2-tier rack look (but in wood) and it looks and feels nice as a unified instrument.

An idea: if you're going to DIY a cab, you don't necessarily have to stick with 84 hp. Raw Vector rails can be had in up to 300 hp increments. Now, that would be utterly bonkers, but one format I've seen from Erica makes a lot of sense to me, and that's 126 hp. It's big, but not overly huge to the point of either being overwhelming or unportable. Check out Pulplogic's or Synthrotek's offerings for rails and mounting hardware. And yes, 1U makes perfect sense; if you can shunt off a lot of utility functions into the tile row(s), that makes more space for the big stuff.

Dixie II is a pretty good choice, given how variable it is plus how small a footprint it takes up. As for the Echophon, just wait and see...that plus the Batumi = serious sonic trouble (of the GOOD variety)! Other than that, I think you're good to go here.

Does anyone have any helpful opinions on what to do next?

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/image/661145.jpg
Just Friends is in the mail...

So far I am really really happy with the setup, the modular is way more fun than I had imagined. But! For example, a LxD would maybe be useful to smooth out digital aliasing the BIA produces (and 2x VCAs in only 4HP). I also don't have CV attenuation or utilities, so CV control that doesn't just go from -5 to +5V requires some planning... (I use the env outs of the DFAM, and tempo-sync LFO to get a little bit of adjustment).

I think I want to stick with this setup for a bit (since I really can't afford another module for a while), but I plan on building a 84HP wide box maybe around the end of the year, maybe with a 1U row of utilities. I'm handy with woodworking, so I'm making the case myself out of cherry or walnut (and that means 84HP could be 85HP or whatever it needs to be!). What would YOU add?

My current short list fills in the gaps with helpful utilities:
LxD
O/A x2
µVCA
µModII 4 quadrant multiplier
O'Tool Plus

All that would still leave another 24HP, I really have no clue what I'd put there that makes sense at the moment.

Staying at a measly 60HP size, would you swap out any modules in the short-term? I keep wondering how much I need that LFO over the LxD, for example..

Thanks for your help!

I sold a Trigger Riot to @BrokenBo : nice and clear communication, payment received quickly. A very smooth transaction.

Thank you Lugia!

Anymore advice about the general flow of the rack? Is there anything substantial that is missing?

I have now added a Three Sisters for filter and additional VCO, Dixie II. Seems like that will play nice with the Rubicon but any suggestion would be great as maybe a different color of VCO could also go well.

Are there any glaring redundancies? Things which are too similar or too much HP? The only module I'm not convinced totally of is the Echophon...

Thanks so much for your suggestions!

EDITED Jun 18th 2018, 10:19

I sold a Delptronics LDB-2e to @Onsturicheit. Super fast payment, crystal clear communication and very nice guy !

The Veils and the Quad VCA are pretty much the same thing, but Intellijel's prices are a hair cheaper. That's about the only real difference.

Right, but that arrangement works if you have the volume loop aerial on the right. With just one, though, the key is to simply get it away from wherever your hand might be while using the rest of the controls. Interestingly, Moog's present-day theremins are backwards from the original RCA ones, which are pitch on the right, volume left.