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This: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/g-storm-electro-delta-vcf-8hp
-- Lugia

Watched the demo. I see why you like it!

Track sent.
Flying Species - Hypnotic Flight in Psychedelia (7:51 - 140 bpm)

Digging this very much.

Sounds great! Not having a tape deck any more, is this going to be available on more modern formats? Like CD? :)

Also :

tracks recorded live on a small modular system.
-- systasis

Just trolling!

I am maybe interested... but 100% busy with other things right now. Is there a deadline?

I recently watched DivKid's video on the Joranalogue Contour 1. At about 11:54 he shows how to use the Contour 1 as an envelope follower. Am I right in thinking that any slew limiter can serve as an envelope follower in this way?

May have to work on a new track to submit. Thanks again for supporting the MG community.
-- farkas

You are very welcome! Looking forward to hearing what you come up with!

Nice work :) thats quite a mix.

and yeah, it was switched off pronto.

Thank you so much for taking the time to give me advice.
I've moved a few modules around and it does seem to be OK now.
I will do a 3 row rack and post here, to double check.
Thanks again.

Cheers :)

I'd watch out for power with this (see other thread re 'electrical concern') - those go cases are a bit under-powered in my opinion and there may well be inrush issues with so many digital modules (at least 12 of the modules in this rack are digital at a quick glance)

I'd strongly suggest creating an abstraction of this case with 1 row per +ve rail power section - go to the bottom of the sheet view and you will see power consumption per row - or in this case per section of the +ve rail

this will enable you to see the distribution of power better - leave at least 30% free on each of the zones and each of the other power rails (especially the -ve)

if there are still inrush problems then either adding a rack wart psu or experimenting with inrush delays are going to be the answer - wmd make one

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 16:30

I hope you switched off straight away!!!

are you sure the power cable is in the right way? on both the module and the busboard

are you sure the power cable is correctly made - red stripe should be to left when looking at the keyed side on both connectors - lining up with a tiny embossed triangle

have you left 30%ish overhead on each of those sections on the +ve rail?

it could be over draw on one of the other rails? -ve perhaps or 5v - same for headroom! I'd be surprised if it were 5v though, -ve not so much - I have a mantis, which b-company 'cloned' the go case power from, and I think that is under-powered on the -ve rail (but I have quite a few -ve hungry video modules in there)

if all that is ok - ie the connection is good and there is (supposedly) ample headrooom on all rails - then there's still the possibility of inrush being the cause - and not necessarily just from this module - it is cumulative - it's quite likely that if you have multiple modules with higher inrush draw than stated (often digital modules) that this can occur - so spread the digital modules out as much as possible - and if necessary shift them around a few times until it works - try moving things around so that this module is powered from another section - or remove some modules from that section and move them to another that has more room

if you still have problems - either add an additional power supply rack wart module style (ugly hp thieves that they are) - or wmd make a plug in for the power connector that delays the start up of a module for a short time to delay the inrush until other modules have started up

maybe creating an abstract version of your rack here would be a good idea - use 3 rows instead of 2 - each row is a section of the power supply - if you go to the bottom of the list view you can then see consumption by row (or in this case section of power supply) - I often do this where I have 2 power supplies for 3 rows in a diy case - if you make the rack public and copy paste the url in here maybe someone will take a look and help you

I just added a Basimilus Iteritas Alter to my rack. I including it in a patch and the lights on all my modules started flashing, at the same time.
Is this a warning sign?.
My rack is a Behringer Go, it's got 3 x 1 amp sections, of which none are overloaded.

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 16:10

mostly the problem with wasp filters is that one of the chips dies - it doesn't happen that often from what I can make out - it's socketed so an easy replacement - no soldering required and the chips are cheap from what I can remember

20 seconds on google and I found it to be a CD4069 chip that fails - the originals are TI, but apparently ST or MCI have significantly better longevity - buy a few and you should be good

I only looked quickly at mouser - the TI chips are 0,52€ each or 10 for 4,39€ + tax and shipping

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150302

Thanks for all the great suggestions everyone. I will do some further research.

@zuggamasta -- I have seen the Zlob SVF in your videos. Yes. :)

@farkas -- I actually bought a second hand Doepfer Wasp, but it arrived not working properly so perhaps you are right about its flakiness.

@GarfieldModular (or anyone) what's the difference between the OptoMix and the LxD? Just the Damp control? (Which is a slew limiter, right?) These are interesting but lack of resonance control seems a loss.

Anyone tried the WMD C4RBN? (or whatever it is called). Its tiny buttons put me off, but the demos sounds decent.

yes it makes more sense to me too

well filter is one of the things that maths can't do - here is what it can do (which is a lot): https://w2.mat.ucsb.edu/mat276n/resources/systems/CREATE_teachingSynth/manuals/8c_Maths2013-V1.11-printable.pdf

I would spend some time on youtube and forums researching filters - they all sound different etc...

I'd definitely look at doepfer filters though - as they are inexpensive and decent - mostly based on classic synth filters, as are most others to be honest, to a greater or lesser extent

maybe get a couple so that you can have some variation - one for the sub and one for the main output - maybe a wasp style (gritty) and a smoother moog style one - send each to a different cascading vca channel, but with a different rhythmic envelope going to each and different modulation to the filters and you suddenly get 2 voices from your single vco - buy doepfer and the pair together are cheaper than a lot of other filters - and just as good!

I'd be tempted to get a stages - it'll give you envelopes (from simple decay up to 36 stages if you chain 6 together), lfos, and a host of other functions as and when you need them - including a harmonic oscillator

I'd also recommend something for mixing (copies of) the outputs together to make more interesting patterns - a simple unity gain mixer with no controls will do the job - or a matrix mixer - which will do a much better job, but will be more expensive and take up more space

if the lfos you do get are uni-polar (stages is, for example) you might also want to consider adding something like shades - atttenuversion, offset, precision adder (for accurately adding v/oct signals) and mixer rolled into one

you may be thinking why do I need so many mixers?
(multed and) mixed modulation = (more) complex modulation
mixed lfo and envelope = tremolo effect
mixed v/oct and a tiny tiny bit of modulation (may require multiple levels of attenuation to get the right level) = vibrato
mixed vcos before filter = fatter (due to detuning etc) or accents one vco tuned an octave higher than the other - open filter more for accent
feedback
transposition - precision adder
etc etc

and all that may be for a single voice before hitting a final audio mixer - and most of those might want vcas and you probably want vcas for modulation on top of that - hence the saying - you can never have too many vcas - which should also be extended to mixers imo

as you are planning on playing from a midi keyboard - I'd get the midi converter asap and plan on adding as many simple adsr envelopes (as i suspect this is what you will expect to hear) as the midi converter has gate outputs - doepfer and frequency central both make great dual adsrs that are both reasonably small and inexpensive

Hassle free transaction with @BrokenBo, module well packaged and in mint condition.

very melodic, the whistle reminds me of something else.

I have one of the intelligel's µVCF and I'm more than happy with it. It's 6hp and comes at a reasonable price, though it's a 2-pole filter and may not have the character of some of the filters already suggested, it can show some attitude too with FM and self-patching.

Yes, this is superb!

Thanks a lot guys :) You are all way too kind!

Thank you very much!
It's just a pre-order, so there is only one part available on Bandcamp.
Full album will be available on April. I will make a video with patch from it in a few weeks :)

wow, thanks. this is starting to make a lot more sense. i think my original thought that i didn't ask was what the difference or if there is much of a difference than a 'mixer' or an output module or is the mixer basically serving the same function?

also i got the maths because i thought it was a filter. i still also need a envelope generator and a proper filter i suppose-if yall have any suggestions. also for an lfo. thanks a ton!

A quick jam tonight on the Moog stack with an appearance from Plaits.

makes sense... if I was in North America or Japan I would definitely invest in a good output module - thankfully I have balanced power though!

-- JimHowell1970

Ahhhh...THAT explains quite a bit! Since you're apparently in a part of the world where the way the grid works is more sensible, you've never battled with weird noise issues like those. Maddening stuff...

But yes, if you're spoiled by balanced power right out of the wall, the need for isolated outputs might not make sense, since that one factor alone gets rid of loads of the nonsense we have to deal with on this side of the pond when some awful sonic crud sneaks into the proceedings. OTOH, if someone's miswired the ground over there, your odds of noise don't increase...but the potential of using ungrounded gear is just plain scary! You could ask Keith Relf of the Yardbirds about that...maybe at the next seance...?

OK...I had a dive into this. One immediate thing that came up regarded the Doepfer 4 hp VCO...too deep. It's 65mm deep, and the back row in a B. 2 x 140hp rack is 62mm at its deepest. But I opted to go nuts here and show some possible other alterations...

While the basic sonic architecture stayed the same, a lot of things got altered, especially to support generative work.

Top row: Starts now with a CaviSynth Bufflide...3-out buffered mult with an additional slew limiter for portamento. You really only need this for the first "voice" here; the other two oscillators can be driven by single CV lines, although you could just as well use the buffered mult for all oscillators by splitting the CV needed for the two initial VCOs. Kept the Braids clone, added an Instruo Ts-L for maximum timbral manipulation, then fed these to a Bastl Waver, a waveshaping mixer. No VCF here; I opted for something more akin to a West Coast-ish approach to sound generation here for maximum "punch", especially on bass. VCA control is present on the Waver. The 4ms SWN now is followed by the Chopping Kinky, which lets you apply waveshaping to that poly-VCO, then this feeds the Moon Phase VCF. The Blackbox now feeds the Vult VCF. Then after that, there's your stereo mixer...a Bubblesound HexVCA's individual outs feed to a Happy Nerding PanMix, and this gives you VCA level over the signal as well as CV panning on all six channels. A 2 x 4 / 1 x 8 multiple closes the row out, as it seems like that might be handy here.

Bottom row: Mutant Brain, Disting, Pachinko, and the RCD modules. Then I swapped the Blue Lantern logic for Tesseract's VC Logics, which is a dual Boolean gate with CV over the gate function...this should be VERY useful for generative-based timing behavior changes. A Circuit Abbey TripFire then gives you a comparator to pick gates off of modulation signals, plus a pulse delay. Next is Stages, then the 4 hp switch, and at that point I went OFF on the modulation section. This got changed to a Maths, a Tiptop MISO for modulation manipulation, Happy Nerding's 3x VCA for your linear VCAs, a NANO Quart for two-stage envelopes and LFOs, then a Zadar + expander for the four-stage envelopes. The Clank Chaos is after this, more toward the end to make it convenient as a manual controller. Then the Erica DSP got swapped out for a Xaoc Timizoara for effects (much more powerful). Lastly, the very end has a 1 hp Konstant Labs PWRchekr...and given that this is in a Behringer cab, keeping tabs on your DC rails will probably be quite useful, indeed as the Behringer P/S in this is still something of an untested factor out in the field.

Changes: this now has EIGHT or thereabouts envelope gens, plus a Maths. Has a proper stereo mixer with VCAs for the inputs and CV panning. Module order has been clarified. 11-ish VCAs on board. Better logic capabilities. More potent FX processor. And there's a pile of incremental changes as well. The result is a definite power-up from the original, and even got rid of the Cre8 stuff as you'd noted in one post...which is fine, because tbh, I don't think much of their build quality. The only other major deletion was the Erica switch, but between functions on the Chaos and the retained 4-in switch, you shouldn't feel any real loss in control capabilities in generative work. The downside is that you apparently have many of the original modules already, and the overall cost did increase by $700 and change...but from my own experience with generative work, this should be a lot smoother to operate, has some sonic capability improvements, and has a cleaner signal flow, all of which you want for that sort of thing. It might not be as useful an exercise since quite a bit of this was determined in hardware already...but I think there's enough improvement here that you might want to consider some of the alterations.

makes sense... if I was in North America or Japan I would definitely invest in a good output module - thankfully I have balanced power though!

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 03:02

The Serge NCOM is pretty nice @JimHowell1970
-- troux

hmm yes I know - looks great - as does the Joranalogue - but as I already have 2 available - they either would be a long way down the list - I'd probably go for the ncom of the 2 though

addendum - I was just flicking through the maths illlustrated manual - I'd forgotten that you can patch maths as a comparator - so I've got at least 3 then...

I

do

not

need

any

more!

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 16:17

I see you've got a couple switches in there already. Do you blow your hair back the way they do mine?
-- wrecksmoondee

What would you say is your most recent "favorite" use for your switches?
-- merzky_shoom

I guess I love them for "generative" surprises. I love how I can load them like a revolver with different sound bullets and have them fire off and do their thing. Sometimes I'll have a suitably primed filter doing double-duty: taking (A) a percussive element and (B) a "tonal" element. So the switch will be loaded with (A) a trigger and, say, (B) a mixed pair of VCOs making a simple chord; these will alternatively be sent into the filter. If I have another switch handy, the CV-in of the filter can take alternatively an envelope and a random voltange or an LFO and an audio-rate VCO. The basic idea is alternating elements. I suppose one might use a crossfader in a similar way. In any case, I've found switches to be the utility that leads to me sitting back and listening to this strange instrument with a big grin on my face.

*EDIT: I should add that what counts as "enjoyable" and "musical" for me, and thus what makes me grin, is perhaps quite idiosyncratic, so, as they say, "YMMV".

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 01:23

I'd want a lot more utilities
-- JimHowell1970

WRT this point, any kinds of utilities you see missing from this that you personally couldn't live without? Not assuming that your needs will meet mine, please keep in mind. I just haven't found much need for any others that can be replaced with something 0hp/outboard. With the one exception being a precision adder... which I reluctantly took out of this build.

-- merzky_shoom

It's not so much that you are missing huge amounts of functionality - the utilities you have I would all want I would just want more of them - especially vcas (modulate the modulation of the modulation not just audio!) and mixers (I'd want at least one matrix mixer, probably 2, for mixing modulation sources and feedback patching, and possibly some more small sub-mixers)

I'd probably also want to add rectifiers and logic modules and another sample and hold (so maybe a kinks)

I think you'd miss out on a lot by staying away from the community completely - there's absolutely no need to post if you don't want to - if only for things like the "today my small discovery was..." thread on muffs

tbh I'm not that interested in new modules - I scan them and maybe read the details of 1 in 10 and "watch" (skip through for interesting bits at least) a video of 1 in 30 - but in terms of gas it can be dangerous - I "watched" Robin Vincent filling a new case last night on youtube and now I want a deckard's voice as well as a magneto!

I'd be inclined to keep the nifty case so you have somewhere to expand into, just in case!

EDITED Mar 6th 2021, 01:17

The Tex-Mix system is definitely worthwhile, to be sure. I'll second that, plus add some points to this...

When you're choosing a final mixer for a modular system, it's definitely a plus to have a VCA per strip, as this can take some load off of other VCAs in the system to use in more "interesting" ways. While you can get away with manual panning, AUX send/return and the like, it's super-useful to have CV control over levels at the mixer itself. For one thing, you won't need to add VCAs before it, which should save a bit of space. Plus, if you find a suitable mixer that can do CV over the other functions, those then eliminate OTHER modules from the build, such as panners, AUX mixers/distros, and the like. However, keep in mind that when you add modulation destinations, you're ALSO adding a need for more modulation. But there's "workarounds" for that that won't have you adding loads of modulation modules...just depends on how creative you get with patching and module utilization.

But as for output modules...my fascination with them has to do with many years of gigging with dicey AC power systems plus external noise sources (RF especially). See, in North America (and a few other places, like Japan), we've got unbalanced power...one leg of a three-wire AC connection here is "hot", one's "ground", and the last is "neutral", intended as a return for the "hot" line which has the entire 120-ish volts on it. Plus, you often see older construction where clubs are with bogus grounds...looks like three wire, but the electrician violated the hell out of codes by tying the "neutral" and "ground" together...a BIG no-no! Or maybe the stage has its power coming off of two different breakers, so you plug the mixer into one and, inadvertantly, plug the synth into the other...resulting in the lovely hummmmmmmm of a ground loop. Now, much of the rest of the world uses BALANCED power...there's no "neutral", but you get two 120V "hots" referenced to ground for balanced 240V. This is the CORRECT way to deal with AC...but remember, 'Murrika invent 'lektricity, so we am rite!

BUT...if you put in an isolated output, what'll happen there is that the audio gets through the transformer, but the noise gets chucked out, especially if it's trying to crawl back up your audio out line (like in a ground loop or induced RF situations). It's not NECESSARY, mind you...but it does serve as a good "prophylaxis" against garbage getting into the signal, especially if a user plans to gig with their system (or, more likely, gets called to gig with it unexpectedly) and there's questions about the power at the venue. If one of these is in the build, one just proceeds as per normal; if not, you might spend quite a bit of time that you don't really have chasing noise, and being forced to use a kludge to get the gig done, such as using a ground lift (which isn't a good idea!) on some of the gear. The easier thing is to sacrifice 4 or 6 hp for an isolated output module...then you KNOW you're set before problems ever arise.

Beautiful. Well done @wishbonebrewery.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Oh my goodness, what a music! This is seriously beautifully done, nice long track. I totally agree here with Troux that it would be nice to hear an entire album, double CD or double record please, instead of a good 9 minutes it should be over 90 minutes! Are you the new Tangerine Dream? ;-)

I love the picture of your rack with those cables too :-)

This is enjoyment pure! You made my weekend start fantastically, thank you very much for that :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Igor,

Oh that's a nice demo track for your album. The atmosphere is so... tense... cutting like sharp knife here through the air. Beautifully done!

I continue listening on Bandcamp :-) Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Very groovy @wishbonebrewery, I wanna hear the whole album.

I see you've got a couple switches in there already. Do you blow your hair back the way they do mine?
-- wrecksmoondee

Oh jeez I love the Erica switch, especially for the price they were offloading them at. Had underutilized it as a complex modulation "source" for the first few months with it, as I was enamored with creating melodies from every audio signal I could push through it. But yeah I often find myself starting patches with "What could I do with the switch now?"

The manual switches have performed the job I got them for, but I haven't run into too many problems for them to solve for me just yet. I've also got a couple of complex modules that I'm still trying to get under my fingers and into my workflow, so time will tell.

What would you say is your most recent "favorite" use for your switches?

EDITED Mar 5th 2021, 22:52

I'd want a lot more utilities
-- JimHowell1970

WRT this point, any kinds of utilities you see missing from this that you personally couldn't live without?

-- merzky_shoom

Sorry for eavesdropping. The utilities that I've especially fallen in love with are switches; the Doepfer A-150 and A-151 in particular. I'm always thinking "boy, what I could do with one or two more of these." So I'm planning on getting another one or two more.

I see you've got a couple switches in there already. Do you blow your hair back the way they do mine?

I guess a lot hinges on what "complex" means, but the Doepfer A-154/A-155 sequencer combo is certainly well-featured.

I shot a tiny promo video for new cassette release of my band.
Featuring reel-to-reel, modular, guitars and space :) Hope you will like it.
Album is here - https://gamardahfungus.bandcamp.com/album/polaris
Pre-orders started today.

Video is here:

I'd want a lot more utilities
-- JimHowell1970

WRT this point, any kinds of utilities you see missing from this that you personally couldn't live without? Not assuming that your needs will meet mine, please keep in mind. I just haven't found much need for any others that can be replaced with something 0hp/outboard. With the one exception being a precision adder... which I reluctantly took out of this build.

EDITED Mar 5th 2021, 21:21

I have found a very good modular channel on Youtube.
”Monotrail Tech Talks”

There are videos like:
How to use modular utilities.

https://m.

Introduction to Eurorack drones.

Introduction to generative patches.

For a Patreon fee ($4/month) you can download all patches from the videos as PDF:s

I didn't think I'd ever want more than 144hp - until I did... took about 6 months to get to that point and now I have about 1200hp - but saying that I may have stopped at 208hp if I'd bought a bigger case to start with (mantises were not available at the time)

As a 40 year old who didn't upgrade live 8 until this year, still works with mostly digital synths from the early 00s, and rarely if ever sells/trades/upgrades gear... I really don't feel I have an issue. I'm not interested in collecting and I've learned that shiny new lights are only shiny for a week. With that said, there are bound to be moments of GAS in my future, but only minimally modular GAS. Famous last words... I know.

odd-pairings are probably a good idea and overlap is no bad thing

Good tip.

if you want to stay at this point - stop coming to modulargrid, don't go to any other modular forums, don't go to any shops either online of in real life - don't communicate with other modular synthesists - these are all sources of gas

Lol. That's sorta the idea yeah. I am not a community guy, per se. Wonderful community. But wouldn't want to be a part of any club that would have me. Plus, staring at a forum/blogs/videos is just not what I do, really. I prefer to spend my time in front of a computer either at work, or making music.

I'd want a lot more utilities - they make everything else go both further and different - probably another 100hp or so of them for that many voices - balanced rack = 30% utilties, 20% modulation sources - other 50% = sequencers, filters and vcos

Thanks that's a good equation to go by. I still have a NiftyCase hanging around, so I may try my hand at building some utilities once I'm done with my current projects and see how well they jive with the system then consider what they could replace in the main case. But my intention is to stay with this case and only ever add-by-subtracting-first, to allude back to your first point.

Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback. Greatly appreciated!

Should be red stripe up. There is a little marking on the PCB that says "red stripe" near where it should be. At least on mine there is.

if you want to stay at this point - stop coming to modulargrid, don't go to any other modular forums, don't go to any shops either online of in real life - don't communicate with other modular synthesists - these are all sources of gas

-- JimHowell1970

LOLLLLLL I had the same thought Jim

Controlling: Triggers from Roland TR-09, Clocks into 2hp Euclid into 2hp Turning machine into 2hp Tune, Roboux LL8 & DNi Pro DOT.
VCOs: Befaco EvenVCO, Sine split off through Dannysound Timbre
VCFs: #Omsonic​​ Funky Ladder Filter & Happy Nerding HNVCF
Percussion: ADDAC103 & Patching Panda Hatz & Roland TR-09's hats
Effects: Monsoon Clouds Reverb & 2hp Verb & Erica Pico DSP
Modulation: ALM Pip Slope, WMD/SSF ADSRVCA, Divkid Instruo Ochd, Noise Engineering Clep Diaz for clocked LFOs.

Live recorded in 1-take after a few practices cos I always screw up my levels!
Cheers for listening :)

EDITED Mar 5th 2021, 18:29

thoughts:

I didn't think I'd ever want more than 144hp - until I did... took about 6 months to get to that point and now I have about 1200hp - but saying that I may have stopped at 208hp if I'd bought a bigger case to start with (mantises were not available at the time)

odd-pairings are probably a good idea and overlap is no bad thing

if you want to stay at this point - stop coming to modulargrid, don't go to any other modular forums, don't go to any shops either online of in real life - don't communicate with other modular synthesists - these are all sources of gas

I'd want a lot more utilities - they make everything else go both further and different - probably another 100hp or so of them for that many voices - balanced rack = 30% utilties, 20% modulation sources - other 50% = sequencers, filters and vcos

EDITED Mar 5th 2021, 18:24

The Joranalogue Compare 2 is on my list.