The amount of informations and knowledge that I can gain here are amazing, thanks guys. Although, I must say, I still have some really basic questions. Like for example - How can I utilize Rings, Plaits in Stereo mode, and both at the same time? Right now, one of them can go through Black Hole DSP and it's in stereo. But when I put them all through Veils, then I lose the stereo. I'm beginning to lose my mind or it has been a very busy day :)
Veils is a VCA. What effects do you feel the need to run through a VCA? Typically, you add effects just before the signal goes out to the mixer. But if you do have a signal that you want to keep stereo, then just use two channels of Veils. Split the envelope signal running to the CV input of two channels of Veils.
Studying Maths a lot, it's so much fun. But still - I feel so lost. OMG.
Watch this video from Loopop. Maths is just a great convergence of a lot of simple tools where the sum is greater than the parts.
I think Lugia's recommendation is great. You're getting two analog oscillators for $250. Being able to sync your oscillators is nice for that lead synth sound among others. Dual oscillators also allow for that "fat" sound via detuning or stacking at octaves, 5ths, etc.
Each VCO can also operate at LFO speeds so you'll have lots of options. Now I'm thinking about it.
I'd ditch scales and go with a Ornament & Crime, which will function as a quad quantizer, which pairs up nicely with the Mimetic. Of course it has other features you may like in addition. This Palette feels like you've been watching a lot of Ricky Tinez. Yes?
Really cool ..... where is the program, to build import create you're own envelopes, and plenty space on the device for these things, WHY SO LOCKED DOWN =D
-- Gravitymike
I did a little bit of research. The firmware version 2.0 includes a new bank of shapes called "Glitch & Hold" by Richard Devine. So I think it should be possible to hack the waveshapes if new waveshapes can be added via a firmware update. There's an account on Modular Grid by the name of "RichardDevine". I don't know if this is the same person or not. But a polite DM inquiring might be worthwhile if you're so inclined.
Maybe it does...but the fact is that you can look at it from several feet away and be able to tell the basics of whether it's patched correctly or not.
People rip on Tiptop over these colorful jacks. I don't know why. If you've ever programmed a Serge, Buchla, 2700-series Paia, Ciat-Lonbarde, analog computer of most any sort, etc you NEED those multicolors! Same reasons there apply here, too.
-- Lugia
Aesthetically, I don't like the plastic look about them. I do own a Z-DSP(NS), though. It's nice enough. But I don't know if I'd recommend it. It's pretty huge for what it does.
To follow up on Toodee's reply to my reply... many filters can also be used as sine wave oscillators if their resonance permits. Some can and some can't. But the right filter can double as a simple oscillator.
I'd look at the Erica Synth Black Sequencer. It has 16 encoders on it. I'm assuming that if you have the Metropolis, that you like having sliders/knobs for input. Erica's website lists it at 510 Euros. Erica is based in Europe as well.
Research it and see if it's for you.
It usually works better the other way around. There are frames you can buy to fit Eurorack modules into a standard 19" rack. Eurorack takes 3U of regular rack space. So you might want to dedicate three, six, or nine U to Eurorack.
LFOs
Noise Generator
Multi-Mode Filter
Those are the three things I could think of as being useful and not present. Your oscillators are all digital. So maybe an analog oscillator like the Intellijel Dixie II+. It can also work at LFO rates, so it might serve a coupleof purposes.
Hmmm...this could be yet another solution to passing DC to the amp, I think...
;-)
-- Lugia
It's not a bad module. But it really doesn't shine until you get the expansion module for it.
Pull the Turing Machine out of your case, put it back in the box (you save your boxes, right?), and try to forget about it.
If you don't bother with it for six months... you probably don't need it. If you keep eye-balling the box and thinking about what you might be able to get away with pulling to put the Turing Machine back in... I'd buy another case and create a larger system. :)
I'm in the other camp. The modulation sources and utilities are the "sauce" that makes the sound great (doing best Tony The Tiger impression).
If you want to swap out different oscillators/sound generators to get different timbres... cool. But it's the other bits that do the heavy lifting in great sounds.
The use of samples or digitally recorded audio in modular is more of an adjunct than a method for sample playback. You'd have less expense and more success using something like an Akai MPC Live MkII. It will allow for you to load libraries of sounds as well as interface with the modular synthesis world.
That looks like an awesome machine, but seems to be more beat oriented? Doesn’t look like it has the exact tools I’m looking for, although would probably be great for sequencing modular etc.
-- ethanlawrence
It's used by a lot of beat makers but it's not limited in that way. When you speak of loading libraries of sounds, especially orchestral, some simple Eurorack sample playback module isn't going to cut it. I'm still chuckling. There would be so much manual set-up to get anything decent. The Eurorack sample playback/recorder hardware is usually very barebones. They aren't going to playback anything close to standardized multi-sampled kits like Kontakt etc. The polyphony is going to lack as well as any tools for management.
Using a standalone hardware sampler that lends itself to modular is going to work a lot better than sampler purpose built for modular.
Any dedicated Euclidean modules? I know PNW can do that. But if we're talking about a case full of trigger/gate equipment, I think I'd want some dedicated modules to free up PNW and to possibly chain a couple of those together to create some interesting patterns.
Replace the A-118 with an A-118-2. That will save you 4HP, leaving you with 9 HP.
Use that 8HP to put a Disting EX (8HP) in the case and call it good. The EX is a lot more powerful than the MK4 and has an easier to use interface.
Modular gear allows for very detailed levels of control by reducing inputs and outputs to absolutely basic levels of performance.
The use of samples or digitally recorded audio in modular is more of an adjunct than a method for sample playback. You'd have less expense and more success using something like an Akai MPC Live MkII. It will allow for you to load libraries of sounds as well as interface with the modular synthesis world.
I would work from that angle.
Just out of curiosity, Liine's Lemur running on an iPad and driving something like a Expert Sleepers FH2... how is this superior?
I usually work from the bottom to the top of the rack.
Bottom row: Sequencers, clocks, mutes, main mixer... anything that's going to need a lot of hands-on manipulation.
Row 2: envelopes, LFOs, oscillators
Row 3: VCAs, filters, effects
Your rack is tall and narrow, so adjust accordingly.
Well, the Mother-32 only has saw and pulse outputs on its oscillator as far as I have read. Also... it only has one oscillator. So you might consider integrating two stand-alone oscillators that can generate those as well as triangle and maybe sine. If you do that, you will probably want a small mixer to sum them as well. I'd want FULL oscillators capable of sync. There are so many choices out there that you'll have to decide what's the priority.
Eurorack effects that can be modulated might be nice. Again, there are so many..
I feel like a broken record... but a multi-function module might also be great if you're looking to explore new functionality. An Expert Sleepers Disting EX has a nice selection of functionality. If you find a function that you constantly use, then it might be prudent to buy a module dedicated to that functionality. For example if you're constantly using the quantizer, then you might want to buy a dedicated quantizer.
As far as chaos goes... multiple LFOs that are mixed together in a DC compatible mixer that's capable of attenuverting is great for creating chaos. Switches connected to a randomized sample and hold, switching between different modulation sources can make for nice chaos. Also check out Vector Space from WORNG Electronics. It combines (mixes) CV signals in a unique way that might give you that something different you're looking for.
On the Intellijel Palette and your 1U modules, have you made SURE that all your 1U modules are in the INTELLIJELL 1U format? 1U falls into two standards: Pulp Logic "tile" and Intellijel. They are NOT compatible with each other. If you're going with the palette be absolutely certain those modules you've picked are Intellijel compatible.
Okay. If you wanted to make a techno song on this, what elements are going to be in your mix? Kick, snare, hats, a bassline, a lead, some chords... what else?
Do a mental exercise of where each of these elements will come from. What will they be sequenced by? Where will you get all the triggers/gates and CV/pitch from? As far as the voices, how will you make each one? What modules will you need in audio chain for each voice? Some modules are self-contained voices (like BIA, Braids, Atlantis). Others will require filters, envelopes, VCAs, etc... don't forget any modulation (the strength of modular synthesis).
How will you combine the outputs of all of these voices and apply effects to them when desired/warranted?
If you do this mental exercise and work backwards, you might have some second thoughts regarding module selection, module size in HP, mixers-submixers, etc. Once you've done the work, you might find that you need more utilities than what you have... that you will need more rack space, and things might be much more expensive to get the level of functionality you'd hoped for.
I bought the Behringer K2 and added this interface pod so that the K2 fits in seamlessly with the rest of my modular system. I don't understand why Korg does not build an MS20-Modular in Eurorack.
-- galaxiesmerge
It's a different standard. So the K2 would have to be built on a new backbone and still try to emulate the MS20 close enough to be acceptable.
I cannot seem to get the intellijel noise tools into the 3U to 1U adapter where the module physically actually sits in my current rack so it hangs there outside the rack and disconnect. If anyone knows how to do this please let me know. Maybe it is a feature for modular grid that is just waiting to happen!
-- galaxiesmerge
Perhaps start looking at 3U sample & hold modules. "Noise tools" is more of "Sample & Hold" tools. You might find what you're looking for in 4 to 6 HP.
If you're looking for pieces to add to your Neutron, it's okay. But if you remove the Neutron, you're pretty limited.
If you're going to buy a Disting, get the EX. It has more features and a better display. It can also do the work of two of the Mk4 Distings in most cases. A small submixer that can also handle DC would be nice. Rings, Filter 8, and the Disting can all act as oscillators and you might want to combine them or some CV in a patch.
-- Ronin1973Thanks a lot for your comment above, Ronin1973. I really appreciate your feedback about the Disting Ex, and totally blanked on that when loading up the case. It really does look like an excellent addition to this set up.
I agree with your comments regarding an additional small DC (operable) mixer. Would you have any recommendations?
Thanks again!
-- djidmusic1
I'm using 1U Quadratts in my setup. But that's Intellijel 1U. Almost any mixer will do, so just go with what works in terms of features and size... just be sure it's DC coupled so it will work with audio and CV.
Given that the Bitbox is technically a tiny little computer hiding inside a Eurorack cab, I tend to approach it so that it can dedicate as much of its operation to audio synthesis. So getting a bit LESS going on with it is one of those things that I, at least, would feel good about as it should do better at its "mission" with less going on inside of it.
-- Lugia
See, this is why I like to ask these questions. I'm fully aware of what is out there and how to go about Eurorack, but getting some insights like this, an approach to something that is meaningful yet different to your own, that I find enlightening. I guess I need to find an octa-filter as well! :)
-- ParanormalPatroler
The Bitbox Mk2's inputs and outputs are DC coupled and you have four discrete outputs. Why wouldn't you get a VCA involved?
If you're looking for pieces to add to your Neutron, it's okay. But if you remove the Neutron, you're pretty limited.
If you're going to buy a Disting, get the EX. It has more features and a better display. It can also do the work of two of the Mk4 Distings in most cases. A small submixer that can also handle DC would be nice. Rings, Filter 8, and the Disting can all act as oscillators and you might want to combine them or some CV in a patch.
It'll work as a mixer... but then you give up the ability to use it as VCAs. You could press the Maths module into mixing duty if need be.
-- Ronin1973Thanks, that's good to know. Is it a case of jumpers at the back to switch between VCA/Mix modes, or is it dependent on how it's patched? If it's the former, I'd maybe be able to live with it, as that's kind of versatile.
Good point about the smaller clones. I'd envisaged the bottom row as a bit more spacious for ease of use and playability, but maybe there can be some compromise.
-- ryanthegecko
I don't know the ins-and-outs of that particular module. I have an Intellijel quad VCA that also performs as a mixer. But these types basically work the same way: the bias knob will act as a volume pot, each output is normal'ed and summed to the next channel's output unless a patch cable is inserted.
If you'd like to create a volume envelope for your sound, typically you'd want to start and end with 0 amplitude. If the bias knob is already set partially open, then the envelope will start at that volume level and end at that volume level... not zero (assuming you're using positive voltages).
It's probably possible to use one or two of the VCA channels as VCAs.. then use the rest of the available channels to mix volumes with... if you're creative with your patching. But a dedicated four channel mixer would be a useful addition to this set-up.
Well... the A-135-2 is a yes AND no answer. It's more of a quad VCA. It'll work as a mixer... but then you give up the ability to use it as VCAs. You could press the Maths module into mixing duty if need be.
I'd go with clones of the Mutable stuff in less HP to make room for a dedicated submixer... else consider replacing something like the Intellijel sequencer with something smaller or a stand-alone sequencer. If you have your heart set on the configuration I would go for the smaller clones.
My $0.02.
I would check out Expert Sleepers ES-9 (as stated above) for CV and audio in and out of Ableton. But it will become your audio interface in Windows.
Befaco's CV Thing or VCMC both look nice for converting CV to MIDI.
Great patch! I’ve been on micro since the start, but I have this struggle> It offers a good lot but sometimes overtakes needing much else in a patch, or too like daw, just immersed in that screen! and less hands on….
So I’m placing it on hold till I choose to sell..
-- Floa
I have the full-sized BitBox. I find it very nice for looping in real time... especially if you're driving it with a sequencer with MIDI clock connected to the BitBox's MIDI in.
The palette case has jacks for line level inputs and outputs. You have to BUY the modules to make this functionality work. Your modular gear works at SYNTH level, which is a lot higher than line level (your Octatrack). You're also going to need a MIDI to gate/CV converter. Again, the Intellijel case has the facilities for MIDI, but you have to BUY the modules to connect to it.
So you have a Palette and two 1U modules for MIDI and audio IN/OUT and you still haven't put in anything synth or percussion related yet.
You'll probably find that buying a drum machine and plugging it into the Octatrack is probably a much better option in terms of set-up and price.
It looks nice. But any group of modules from the same maker using the same aesthetics will look nice placed together. You'll see this in marketing videos as well as sponsored videos.
Some manufacturers DO make turn-key (ready to play when assembled) kits like Make Noise and Roland. If you're new, they are viable options for general synthesis and exploration. They aren't bad kits at all.
But you'll find as you LEARN the functionality of module types and key-in on how all of this "patching by wires" works in its own unique way... you'll find that a mixed kit is usually much stronger than a run of modules all from the same place.
The Behringer Neutron is probably going to be the only thing under $400US that is highly patchable and Eurorack compatible.
Erica Synths Pico System III is just under $500. But that's $100 above your price range.
For Eurorack I would budget $1000 to $2000 to get in the door.
Something to consider as well. If you're in Europe, there are probably plenty of places to pick up modules on holiday. You can always swap some stuff out as you travel if you want to make some modifications.
Two things for me:
1. How do you plan on monitoring the outputs of this skiff? Maybe you're using an audio interface or something?
2. The Resonant Equalizer is huge at 18HP. You could add other modules that might be more useful in its place: an effects processor, a dedicated sequencer, a multifunction module like a Disting, etc.
If you're using a Mac you can aggregate audio interfaces. Simply put, you can connect multiple audio interfaces to your Mac.
On PC, Windows only likes to have ONE audio interface. There are workarounds here and there. But this is it.
The ES-8 acts as an audio interface. So if you're using your actual audio interface to control your monitors or service other gear, you're now out of luck unless you can connect everything up to your ES-8.
With a DC coupled audio interface with MULTIPLE OUTPUTS, you can use spare outputs to drive your modular synth gear and use the others for normal audio. The issue you'll run into with the audio interface is the range of voltages that it can reproduce.
Another option is to use a MIDI to CV interface like an FH2 that acts as a MIDI interface. Or a MIDI to CV converter which simply takes 5pin or TRS MIDI and converts that to CV.
A slew limiter takes an input signal and follows it, but at a delayed rate.
Square waves are excellent for showing what a slew limiter does. Visualize a really slow square wave that's two seconds long and 8volts... at the beginning it begins its positive cycle to +8volts and in the middle it dips down to -8volts. It's a nice long square wave.
Now for whatever reason, you don't want an actual square wave. Maybe its abrupt nature doesn't work for your needs. You need something that slopes. Enter slew limiter.
You can set the slew limiter to follow the square wave, but take time to get to the +8volt peak than its natural instant peak. The same can be said for the negative cycle. So the output looks more like a trapezoid than a square.
Slew generators tend to fall into two major categories. You have slew limiters that apply the same slope to both the positive and negative slope. You also have slew limiter that can act independently on the positive and negative slope.
Maths is a popular module that can be used as a dual slew limiter. It has many other functions. Plugging a signal into the input rather than trigger will get Maths to act as a slew limiter.
As far as usage. They can be applied anywhere you want to take a source signal and smooth out any changes in the signal. There's some blur between envelope generator and slew limiters. But an envelope generator is designed take a trigger (square wave) and act in accordance to its duration. If you're dealing with ONE trigger than the functionality will probably overlap. If you're dealing with a series of changes that never return to zero volts. The EG won't track properly.
For live performance... less is MORE.
The more connections, the more things to go wrong. K.I.S.S.
You have plenty of percussion modules... then you'll need to mix them with a submixer or all your main mixers channels will be clogged up with them.
For percussion, I would go with a sample playback module that allows for muting of individual tracks within the module. Unless you're focused on bending percussion samples, I would just simplify things by using sample playback. You can always record your own percussion before your live set.
Modules like Braids and Plaits are also popular in live set-ups because they offer a wide range of sounds that can be accessed and tweaked very quickly.
Also, an output module might be tasty... especially one with a pair of built in isolation transformers. You DO NOT want someone messing up and sending gear melting voltage back down your rig's audio path and frying your modules.
The Filter 8 is nice. It has a lot of features for a filter module. All outputs are available simultaneously, there's a make-up switch to "fix" the low end cutting out when the resonance is cranked (a common issue among filters). The modulation section is well thought-out.
I also like the Morgasmatron as it's two independent multi-mode filters. One filter has a phase reverse, the other overdrive. Both can be switched in or out. I have a Roland 505 dual filter... but it's not as snappy or as "Rolandy" as I would like. Roland doesn't even make their own modular gear... so going with another company wouldn't hurt... as Roland did... lol. But the 505 does come with VCAs controlling the output stage. Which is a nice addition if you are crunched for space.
I own all three filters. FYI.
The Befaco ADSR is also pretty tasty. It has modulation capabilities for each stage PLUS... it will output a gate for every stage the envelope is in.
I've used a Quadratt as a cheap and dirty "AND". As long as the module you're feeding has a minimum voltage to trigger that input, you can feed two gates into the Quadratt and attenuate them so that each individual gate is under the threshold. But when both are present, you're over the threshold.
A little off topic but still relevant IMHO. But should work with any DC compatible mixer with attenuation.
A VCA at the end offers the most flexibility; especially if you are driving your filter into self-oscillation range. The sound will be tighter. But maybe you WANT the filter to ring out if you're under those conditions.
My opinion is to do a little homework with your rig. Try and overdrive the filter if you can and see how that affects things in your rig. The type of filter and how it's implemented is going to have the most influence... my Roland style filter won't self-oscillate while my MS20-style with do that all day.
I read up on the manual a little. For Accent and Slide to be triggered, a voltage between 5-12v is needed. So I think the requirement would be pretty easy. An analog-style sequencer with a gate and at least 3 CV outs would work fine.
My thoughts are the Noise Engineering Mimetic Digitalis should work fine for this need. It has 16x4 CV tracks and a gate out. It will need a clock source.
The Make Noise Rene 1 or mk2 would also work.
https://www.acidlab.de/ProductAssets/M303/M303_manual_english.pdf
I’ve been eyeing the Sir Mix a Lot specifically actually. Curious about the controversy. My first impressions of modular getting into it were that everything was unicorns and awesomeness as far as the companies went. But aside from Behringer, I’ve seen pretty harsh things posted about Synthrotek and Tiptop and that some hobbyists won’t carry/support those brands. Blue Lantern too?
-- eexee
There's almost always some negativity around specific makers. I just wanted to post it in a neutral way. Me personally... I've not had an issue. But I'm not the fan-boy. The bit of kit I have works.
