Hi, folks.

Through one of Lugia's rack reduxes, I was recently introduced to the Zlob Vnicursal VCA, which packs 6 VCAs into 8hp. I have it in all my rack designs, but I'm starting to second-guess myself, since many people here use MI Veils instead.

Are there reasons for choosing Veils over Vnicursal?

Thanks,
Jack

Houston, we have a problem....

And more interestingly what are the kick ass must have cool beep boop phantasmagorifiers that I should chuck in this rack?

-- padmasan

OK, hold up a second. Technically, there is NO SUCH THING as some sort of special uber global "phantasmagorifiers" in modular. OK, there's Maths, but...anyway, starting from this supposition is a microwave-quick recipe for an expensive disaster. We see lots of that, we point it out on here, then of course someone will, for I suppose contrarian reasons, deliberately avoid the Forum's suggestions...and then you hear from them several months later when they sell off the modu-mess they'd created.

Instead of proceeding this way, I would suggest looking for modules to create a build that's useful for the styles of music you create. For example: you mentioned Industrial...so I would naturally suggest a look at Schlappi's modules. But as excellent as Schlappi Engineering's sound-shredding circuits are, if you were doing some Newage sort of gig, that would be a waste of space in all likelihood. Without that MUSICAL aspect focused, the likelihood is that you'll end up with a box that does lots of things...but none of them really well.

The other danger there is that proceeding recklessly and chucking modules into the cab indiscriminately WITHOUT considering what attendant modules those would require to be at their best...well, this will do pretty much the same thing as far as your build is concerned.

What I would suggest is to stop considering this until you've gotten a much clearer idea of how modular works. And fortunately, there's a simple way to do that: VCV Rack. At https://vcvrack.com/ , you'll be able to snag a massive and FREE modular emulator that contains everything you need for the basics...and a LOT more for stepping beyond that. But also, this will give you a better idea of what's necessary in a proper build, as you can test the capabilities of your MG builds by replicating them as close as possible in VCV. If something isn't going to work in hardware, it won't work in software (as a rule), either.

Also, consider getting a B.2600. The ARP 2600, from experience, has to be the best "teaching synth" of all time, and since Uli's slavishly reproduced it (even with a few improvements), you can have one and use it as a "system core" device...with complete interconnectivity between it and Eurorack modules. I've had and used ARP 2600s an uncountable amount from 1980-2018, including every iteration except for the original (and very awful) "Blue Meanie", the first and rather buggy and hated iteration. Most people know 2600s from the big Tolexed case devices, and think the earliest of those is "v.1". Truth is, it's v.2, and as far as I'm concerned, the B.2600 is the REAL v.5...instead of vaporware and crippleware from a certain other manufacturer. And it doesn't cost $4000 or $1800...just a mere $650.

Also, instead of the Intellijel Quad VCA, I'd recommend the current iteration of Mutable's Veils. That frees up 2 hp, which might sound miniscule, but sometimes an extra 2 hp somewhere means you can fit another module into the cab somewhere else. And given that this is a rather small cab, you're going to need enough space (within reason...you don't want to build a "cactus" of tiny knobs and plugs that's not easily controllable) to get a better complement of utilities in there.

Also, don't underestimate what outboard sequencers can do for your modular build. Case in point: I did a live work a few years ago where I needed several unmatched tempi from a pair of Beatstep Pros. And that was super-easy. Since I was doing this with a digital synth via MIDI (Kawai K5m), I needed the BSPs and a MIDI merger. But the BSP allows you to uncouple its master clock from the different sequencer lanes, so I could easily set all four of the sequencer lines to the different tempi I'd envisioned. Pretty much the same thing will work with them in CV/gate territory, since they have two channels of that for the pitch sequencers.

Also, since they have that third "drum" lane...which is nothing but clock pulses...you can feed that rhythmic sequencer to some Boolean logic, and get even more crazy crossrhythmic action.

Hi there,
That is a very cool jam and setup! I subbed to your YT channel. Love the setup with Rene and the OP-1.
One question: how are you clocking the modular from the OP-1 synthesizer? The reason for my question is that I have an OP-1 on order to use with modular and portable jams. Like how to clock modular in sync with the OP-1? I have wanted an OP-1 for a long time since NIN and Depeche Mode use them and they also have tons of modular and synths plus runs batteries and portable.

EDITED Nov 16th 2021, 02:17

Some fun with Make Noise Morphagene

Good kick bass with DPO, hi hats/snare/clap from Erbeverb and madness with Morphagene.

Hi Gabor,

Great experimental track with a lovely ping-pong sound just before 1 minute that kicks in :-)

After all these years it's still a pleasure to see your setup together with the OP-1, nice set that is together! It's amazing what one can do with the OP-1.

Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks you two, and yes @TumeniKnobs, track 1 is pretty rad :)

This is pure suspense and noir. I loved it a lot.

In this patch all the 6 identity ouputs of Just Friends are connected to the Matrix Mixer running on Disting Ex, then routed on to various destinations. Beats by Plonk. Some
more info in the video description.

Nicely done. Congrats! I am partial to track 1, but maybe I am slightly biased there. :-)

Hmmm... that's a shame. I've had nothing but good luck with AJH modules.
Looks like you may have found your answer in that MW thread. Reach out to AJH and see if they can offer you some guidance.
Good luck.

I've been looking at the ES-8 as a replacement for my Focusrite, it seems more convenient to have the audio interface in the rack to save some space on the desk and move easily from one place to another, also sending CV from the computer to the modular would be a plus. However, I'm not sure how this module would work.

What I need is a way to sync and multi-track both external and modular gear with Ableton Live. Right now I'm doing that with a Focusrite audio interface, I just connect the external gear and the modular to the Focusrite inputs, connect it to the computer via USB and listen the main output with the Focusrite headphones or monitor outputs.

As I understand, the ES-8 could be connected to the computer via usb and that would allow me to sync the clock and multi-track from the 4 inputs. What I don't know is if I could use the ES-8 inputs for external gear too or if it works at modular levels only. Also, I'm not sure how I would listen to the main output, can a couple of the outputs on the ES-8 be used for that purpose? can the monitors be connected directly to that outputs? otherwise I could send the main lines to the MakeNoise XOH and use the headphones / line out from there, but I'm not sure if that would work.

Hi,

Bought an AJH Synth VCO here in MG and when it arrived i noticed a strange behavior. The VCO was completely unstable in terms of pitch.
I've started to make some test plugging it into different cases (doepfer psu3 and erica synth). Nothing changed. I've tried to send CV from different sources (3 or 4 sequencers), same story.

I've come across this last night, it's exactly my case: https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=220598

Anyone had the same issue?

I think this module is defected.

Thanks

Sweelinck, thanks for the thoughtful description.

I am enjoying working through your Soundcloud page, lots of nice discoveries there.

Congratulations on the album! Nicely done.

Alright so I've had a go at filling out the rest of my system for future expansion, taking inspiration from @Lugia and @greenfly's builds:

Would love some feedback on this as a potential end-game system. Have I missed anything obvious?

Edits: Removed Braids, Kith Runin
Added: 4TTEN, A-132-3
move a few modules around

Thank you

EDITED Nov 15th 2021, 06:44

Hello Guru's

I've decided to start a eurorack build which I'd like to be part of my existing set up. My biggest obstacle is Wifey who wants to see a clear out of gear before anything new comes in. So far it's been a one way street of new in nothing out but that's not a sustainable situation ;)

Ok so I've ordered a Mantis and I've also picked up the included modules in a sale.

I currently own the digitakt and digitone. Also have the behringer neutron and 303, korg monologue, kawaii r100 drum machine and a boutique tr808.

I'm keeping the elektrons, the neutron and the Kawaii and I want to my rack to compliment and add stuff that these toys cannot do.

I like to make weird arpeggiated beats with atmospheric sound scapes (stuff to play to my mushrooms while they grow) and I love kick ass drum sounds. The R100 is sentimental to me but I own cause I'm a huge industrial music fan.

I'm interested to hear opinions on what the essentials are.
Do I need extra power?
Midi/CV inputs/outputs or will the Neutron cover this?
Amplifiers?

And more interestingly what are the kick ass must have cool beep boop phantasmagorifiers that I should chuck in this rack?

I look forward to your kind responses

Much love

Intellijel Quad VCA is great. I’m happy with it.
For random voltage take a look at Mutable Instruments Marbles and Make Noise Wogglebug. Both are fantastic but different approaches to generating randomness. Wogglebug can do some Buchla Richter type random voltage or work like an additional oscillator or random noise generator. Marbles has the ability to do Turing machine randomness which is fun. I have and like them both.

I have been experimenting with Morphagene and Erbeverb from Make Noise and can get some interesting textures. Same with Make Noise Mimeophon.

Soooooooo...where are the attenuverters? Yeah, I know...attenuators and the like are dull and boring and they've not got all the blinky lights and crap, but try using the "big stuff" without them and you'll discover the exercise in frustration that's waiting for you here.
-- Lugia

To be fair, Maths can serve as attenuverters, though you then get into the whole "but now you can't use all the neat functions Maths can do" argument. I always recommend the Happy Nerding 3xMIA for any and all racks regardless of size. Such a handy module.
Warm Star's The Bends is also a handy but overlooked module for CV controlled attenuverting and matrix mixing.

EDITED Nov 14th 2021, 12:20

Thanks for your lengthy reply.. there is definitely a sense of "kludged" going here..

I'm a synth nerd and I guess I have attempted to treat modular in the same linear vain.. Ocs, filter, VAC, ENV, LFO way..

And as a newbie to the unbound do what you like world of eurorack I just have jumped in eyes close and bought all the modules that tickled my fancy..

I agree.. about the percussion.. I just chucked in grids and tiptop hats for good measure.. my A4, MD, OT, RD-8, RD-6, Volca Drum, and my other Noise Engineering BIA, BI rack have drums well covered.. one of my original rules was not to do drums in eurorack.. it's expensive and better sourced else where..that said the nerdseq has dirty 8bit samples, 2hp has a perc Chan, and disting has two... so with samples chugging around I figure I could use this racks for all in one..

still need to mod the RD8\6 for trigs.... nerdseq can handle a lot of outs with the expanders..

but being modular.. I kinda wanted to keep it all faithful..

With regards to the VCA linear exponential situation, definitely that need to be experimented with..

that said.. Im probably looking for choppy gated tunes.. and hence sort trig spikes into sources may work out ok..

Note.. this is a real rig.. all modules exist.. and the HP limited for space and logistic reasons...

I really am happy I posted this question as I have no one to bounce ideas of.. other than YouTube examples.... but I do live in the same town as nonlinear circuits..

OK, now...a simple question: If I were using this system and I wanted to invert, say, an envelope. Not an uncommon thing; you see this quite a bit with EGs for VCFs, like on my Jupe-6. Soooooooo...where are the attenuverters? Yeah, I know...attenuators and the like are dull and boring and they've not got all the blinky lights and crap, but try using the "big stuff" without them and you'll discover the exercise in frustration that's waiting for you here.

Also, the idea of having SIX voices AND percussion in a system this small is...uhm...ambitious, but in a build this size, that's a REALLY BAD idea, since you're either going to have to cut corners (and this is where a lot of new users majorly screw up) and remove important things, or do the sensible thing and realize that you simply shouldn't try to put that much in just 352 hp.

I would suggest losing ALL percussion in here, because it's far cheaper and, in truth, less frustrating to simply use a standalone drum machine that's locked to a central clock. That'll open some space. Then I think you might want to swear off that six-voice architecture; sure, you COULD do that, but your likely results will either result in six badly-implemented voices, or...well, something like this, where there's very few "helper" modules even though the voices are well done. You're simply going to have to scale this back. Also...

"I have purposely built separate voices to keep me disciplined somewhat, so that I stick to certain voice structures and combinations.. at least until I get familiar with everything.."

A better method to learn your system would be to put it together gradually...after, of course, correcting what's here already. By slowly building up from a very basic module set to the intended goal, you'll gain a much better appreciation for the instrument and also, you'll realize that there's not exactly such a thing as a "voice" in modular in the first place. It's not fixed in that way...but it's very open-ended, so if you wanted it to all be ONE "voice", you could do that. Moreso, you can have different "voices" interacting and affecting each other, as you'd find in generative works.

One last thing about VCAs, also...there's TWO types. The ones you usually see as "add-ons" in modules tend to be basic linear VCAs...but we don't perceive apparent loudness as a linear function. The decibel scale is actually logarithmic...works in powers of 10 so that +10dB is a doubling of the apparent loudness, which is how you get to the Threshold of Pain so quickly. Anyway, those linear VCAs don't work like our hearing apparatus, but EXPONENTIAL ones actually do behave in ways that our hearing recognizes as changes in amplitude that one would find with acoustic instruments. Hence the little per-channel "shape" knobs on Intellijel's and Mutable's quad VCA modules, as well as any other derivation of Mutable's Veils. If you're using the VCA for modulation or early in the signal path, you'd turn that to linear. But for audio, you've got the exponential VCAs, so you turn that "shape" knob to the other setting. But the real fun is in the fact that you can change their behavior to cause the VCA to do something that shouldn't happen in acoustic instruments, or you can have one of those VCAs handling modulation (linear) and right next to it, two handling a stereo audio feed (exponential). And sure, you could get some module that has all sorts of extras in them like that...but can you REALLY control all parts of it, or has something been "kludged" so that you can't...but it makes things "simpler" (and ultimately, it doesn't). Keep this in mind when reworking this.

Thanks for the words.. actually maybe I thin on VCAs... I was intending to use plaits and braids internal VCA, as with the airstreamer milky way, Javelin, Mogue, carbon which leaves the quad vca available for everything else.

I have purposely built separate voices to keep me disciplined somewhat, so that I stick to certain voice structures and combinations.. at least until I get familiar with everything..

I also had to move modular around as the two arturia PSUs are limited.. this arrangement does balance the loads so no individual bus is running at more than 80%..

The two rack brutes mounted together does leave a handy gap between the top and bottom sections where I can route cables from the lower deck around the back to the top sections..

I think i bought to much to be honest so I may test this out and in future reduce the HP count..

Thanks again..

Unicorn rack limit increased to 100

On popular request rack limit for Unicorn accounts was raised from 60 to 100.
-- modulargrid

Hi Modulargrid,

I only now see your change log for this. I would like to thank you very much for that update, very much appreciated. I am now less worried to reach that limit for a while :-)

Have a nice day and kind regards, Garfield.

Nickgreenberg: Ha, ha, thanks Nicolas ;-)

JB: I gave it another though my above suggestion, instead of that last "filter-n+1" you could use an effects module, might be more useful. Up to you of course.

Kind regards, Garfield.

yes! sounds great through Bastl Cinnamon w/ FM input

Thanks Garfield!

Yeah the Make Noise Shared System is wild fun and makes Doepfer look tame in comparison but I like both Make Noise and Doepfer modules. It is good to have reference point to compare the Make Noise Shared System to compare to the Doepfer A100 Basic System that started my journey down the rabbit hole of modular synthesizers. Lately I am exploring envelope generators and been learning Radar with Blip to spice up patches.

I could listen to this all day. It's great.

I think you've already pinpointed the concern I would have with this rack: the layout and cable management.
I would probably group this by function, i.e. all oscillators/sound modules together at the top, then filters and effects, then modulation, and all sequencing and mixing at the bottom, with sub-mixers and mults interspersed throughout.
Your rack may be a little voice heavy, but unless you feel like you could use more VCAs or a 3xMIA or something like that, I don't see much trouble with your module choices.
Have fun and good luck!

Hi, I'm leaning towards melodic ambient electro. I have a RD-8 close by and a lot of other synths, but I'm trying to keep the modular isolated as a standalone multi voice instrument..

outboard mixing and effects are patched so modular voices can sent to their own own channels outside of the rack. with sends to a timefactor and space, with a analog heat on the master bus..

Nerdseq handles voicing and clock source. when I say handle I mean I'm still new to the nerdseq.. 😂

Hi Radar. What kind of music are you doing? Do you have any external gear?

Edit: Here's a link to the rack instead of a pic.

EDITED Nov 13th 2021, 17:10

Any suggestion for layout here or missing vidal modules.. I've layed it out into 6 voices and drums with modulation close by.. cable management seems to be an issue.

Thanks in advance
Radar

EDITED Nov 13th 2021, 17:34

Thanks you all!

@wishbonebrewery, yep, Seek (the random sequence generator rules) => Akemie => Polaris => FX Aid on one of the bigger reverb algorithms, funnily enough no VCAs involved.

@farkas, those are both favs of mine too, and funnily enough I recorded tons of versions of each of them and then took the second take in both cases. Really glad you enjoyed it :)

Wow, man! I love october 9th acid, but you completely raised the bar with serena. Seriously, I am really impressed. What a great accomplishment.

Serena is ace!
Love wash of sound which I guess is ringing out through the FX Aid.

AND do consider some options to sequence sequences. IMO BossBow2, Switchblade, Verbos Sequence Selector and Befaco Muxlicer are all worth considering. Also running sequencing and/or CV through a sample@hold is an interesting technique. The general idea here is nesting control signals so you have source signals and reader/windows which pass a selection of the sources. That lets you get a lot of aural complexity from pretty simple underlying figures.

See https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/10644 for case discussion. CBL and Trogotronic are sounding to me like top travel friendly case picks currently.

… GarfieldModular for the win!!

EDITED Nov 13th 2021, 02:54

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Hi JB and Farkas,

Yes, I would do what Farkas suggests. I got a bit carried away here in this one:

You can add as many VCOs as you want in the above example, hence VCO-n, where by n is for example 4 if you want to add up till four VCOs. But the number N can be anything, up to you. Same then for the EGs.

To make it a bit more spicy you could add for each VCO its own filter (filter-1 up till filter-n) and at the end of the CVilization another filter, or if that's a bit too much, just that last filter-n+1.

If your LFOs aren't clockable then don't worry, just leave out those patches then. Have fun and kind regards, Garfield.

Edit: Hmm that inline picture doesn't seem to work anymore... lots of troubleshooting, should work now...

EDITED Nov 13th 2021, 02:30

A few options here:
— the VCA with CV envelope open/closing it can generally be last in the chain. That way you just have one lane of VCA managing all related needs
— you COULD if desired send a dummy/nul channel to your sequence selector, that way you are sequencing in rests on an affirmative/positive basis

BTW sounds like the setup you are running has a lot in common with the Verbos Sequence Selector. There’s a bunch of Verbos videos for that online, those would be helpful and inspiring for you to take that technique further.

Cheers, Nicholas

EDITED Nov 13th 2021, 01:40

A few options here:
— the VCA with CV envelope open/closing it can generally be last in the chain. That way you just have one lane of VCA managing all related needs
— you COULD if desires send a dummy/nul channel to your sequence selector, that way you are sequencing in rests on an affirmative/positive basis

BTW sounds like the setup you are running has a lot in common with the Verbos Sequence Selector. There’s a bunch of Verbos videos for that online, those would be helpful and inspiring for you to take that technique further.

Cheers, Nicholas

Hi Steve,

Congratulations on your first album, what an achievement! Serena is an interesting track, going to check that one fully out! Like Farkas, I am going to make this a very special weekend :-)

Thank you very much for sharing this special moment with us and once more, congrats on this great milestone for you! :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Nice steam locomotive you got there at the beginning ;-) Ha, ha, and at 2:17 that loud kind of guitar sound is kind of cool :-)

It's nice to see you at work with your Shared System and demoing many modules. Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

another thing that you may want sooner rather than later is a way to control the modular with your foot - especially if you are playing guitar into it... addac and doepfer make one and there is a diy one available from thonk by a company called 7 dials

look at them carefully though, as you may find that you already have all you need other than the module to get that to work - usually a passive volume pedal - but iirc some of them can also take a switch
-- JimHowell1970

Thanks for this info. I actually do have a passive volume pedal.

If it were me and I wanted to split phase 1:
1a: case, beads, a119 (you'll be able to process your guitar and use the envelope follower and comparator to modulate beads)
1b: maths, sbg

another thing that you may want sooner rather than later is a way to control the modular with your foot - especially if you are playing guitar into it... addac and doepfer make one and there is a diy one available from thonk by a company called 7 dials

look at them carefully though, as you may find that you already have all you need other than the module to get that to work - usually a passive volume pedal - but iirc some of them can also take a switch

@meRichie, your rack above is really interesting in concept and has a lot of modules I would want if I was sample-focused.

I agree with others above on i) your rack design is short on "basic / utilities" modules that will be needed and/or ii) there may be non-modular alternatives that are pretty compelling (especially in the MPC lineup).

IF you want to stick with modular, then I suggest you keep in mind the idea of "balance" of module types and HP. For me, in a small to medium sized rack, I try to keep the balance as follows:
-- 30% or less of HP devoted to voicing, aka "modules that make or change sound"
-- ~30% to CV sources like sequencing, LFOs, envelopes, random/chaos (Sloths) etc.
-- ~30% to utilities (VCAs, attenuverters, mixing attenuverters, mixing, mults, etc.)
--~10% or less of "other" such as finishing FX and in/out
In a huge rack IMO one can get away from the above balance AFTER a good "core" section of CV and utilities is available. In a mid to small rack, I find the balance %s above very important.

My early designs skewed too much to voicing and as a result the rack was very "underpowered." Adjusting the balance towards more CV and utilities gave my rack a lot of depth, e.g. every voicing module I wanted to use had plenty of support that allowed me to explore the range and corners of its capabilities.

Hope this helps, good luck!

Kevin, for your rack IMO Intellijel Triplatt (or MI Shades) would be a better choice vs. Vermona Amplinuator. Triplatt will be more versatile and also less HP. Having something like Triplatt or Shades in your rack is IMO another "no regrets" type of choice, it will be useful on many many patches. I would have one of those in basically ANY rack setup. Furthermore, if you get to using more complex CV modulation, something like 4MS SISM or Tiptop MISO is super handy; those are basically suped-up Triplatt. But Triplatt is super useful and small.

You already have Erica Techno, so that already gives you Mixer Lite, Mixer and Stereo Mixer. That will give you a good number of basic mix channels and should handle your immediate needs IMO. Why bother with WMD Performance Mixer when you already have those Erica mixer units? Yes WMD PM is very good, but it is big and expensive, and I don't see a need for those in ADDITION to the Erica mix modules you already have.

I've read more closely the posts above, now thinking PNW may or may not be a good fit. It's a great module, but I don't know that it makes sense given what else you have. BTW if you need to coordinate a lot of different sequencers the PNW with its 24ppwn expansion plus a mult would be a good way to sync everything; that's what I have to sync my many sequencers. SO my suggestion is PNW goes into your "maybe later" modules.

Hope this helps. Good luck!