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Hi,
You can have a look to Ornament and crime or Malekko voltage block too.

Thank you all for participating.

A couple of quotes drawing me back again:
'...the key to Can BEING Can was in how they restricted what they did...' (Lugia)
'...self enforced limitations...' (Farkas)
'...that forest of trillions of possibilities...' (GarfieldModular)

These comments remind me a Matthias Puech interview in a video you can watch on YouTube (the following are accessible at https://www.sawup.fr).

It's in French (I am french too), but I'll try to translate and summarize below some of the main ideas in relation with our thread. (Sorry Matthias if I forgot something important, and sorry ModularGrid buddies for my poor english ;(

Matthias is a musician, teacher, researcher in mathematics, and well known designer of 4ms Tapographic Delay, Ensemble Oscillator, and Mutable Parasites for Clouds, Frames, Tides, etc.

Younger, Matthias had a study at IRCAM and learned about Max/MSP "which is modular synthesis".
According to him: "Modular synthesizer is obviously specific compared with Max through his physical dimension (real knobs, true voltage, etc.)". But, and that's a point for which he LOVES IT: "Especially in the Eurorack world, everyone may opt for let say 'semi-finished' products. Because modules are pre-thought, pre-engineered by their designer, the goal is to turn them afterwards into something relevant for oneself, diverting (hijacking) the codes, and using them differently than why they were intended for".

In this video, you can see his relatively small setup ('...limitations...').
Mathias Puech explains in another video, that he prefers "complex and deep modules, bearing their fruits after a while; this is especially the case for digital, but also analog modules (he mentions Synchrodyne, Swoop, etc.)".

One major bias: "No sequencer! But random modules delivering suggestions to be reworked".

More about Matthias Puech:
https://mqtthiqs.github.io
http://cedric.cnam.fr/~puechm/
https://mqtthiqs.github.io/parasites/

I wanted to share and relate this expert point of view in order to highlight the importance of 'limitations' and the determination of our own goals.

Modular is, by nature, a wonderful instrument which reminds us this universal rule of wisdom.

That's a great analogy, Sweelinck. My music is more hippie than scientist, so Ochd should fit right in.

Things to modulate your module ,that are not si common : euclidean sequencers, varigate4 + ,Zadar with tons of shapes ,Logic modules and switches but that's gonna be hard with only 84hp, as you still need the basic filter mixer vca combo and enveloppe

In my case since january.
Participates in 90 percent of my patches...
Ideal complement to Batumi.
I often say OCHD is a hippie, Batumi a scientist :))

Hi Rookie,

Great! :-) Now I got the same question for you as I had for Dongh Yuk too: "When will you convert a symphony into your modular system?" ;-)

I still love to look at your modular case setup, it's a nice little set that's lovely to look at!

I look forward to hearing more from you and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Thingue,

You are welcome and thank you very much for sharing how you create your sounds. That's quite interesting way of doing it, gives me some ideas too :-)

Thank you and kind regards, Garfield.

Ordered one from Control back in March. Fingers crossed that one will make it to my mailbox soon!

Telharmonic immediately comes to mind, or maybe a complex oscillator through a nice low pass gate. You get a taste of Rings within Plaits, so while Rings is sort of known for beautiful plinks and plonks, I don't think I would have both in an 84hp case.
I'm interested to hear what others have to say.
Have fun and good luck!

I have just purchased Plaits from Mutable Instruments as my first module.

My plan is to create a small modular rack 84HP, to go with my other hardware synths and use it to create sounds I cannot get from more traditional analog synths. I already have a Prophet 6, Boomstar 5089 and a Roland SH-09, so I feel I am covered for pads, bass and leads. I have also purchased the Nifty Case, so this gives me Midi in, two channels of CV gate and a basic audio out.

What I am after is stranger sounds, more esoteric wobbles and weirdness, beautiful plinks and plonks. I really liked the sound of Plaits and like the fact that it is digital. I have plenty of guitar effects and also an El Capistan Strymon pedal, so I don't necessarily need any reverb or delay.

My question is: what modules do you think would go well in a small set up to complement Plaits? I don't want my modular system to grow and grow beyond the 84HP (famous last words!). I'd like to keep it small and only buy a few modules, each of which can do a lot and each of which fits in beautifully with the others.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

putting $300 across 70hp is very cost-effective for eurorack ;-) when i need that last nudge to buy a harmonic oscillator or bark filter, i think of how expensive it would be to fill that gap with a lot of small modules.
2hp gaps are a no-go. you end up with a gap, blind plate or a small module you didn't really want, just to fill it. so first, i would rearrange things to get all the open space left in one place. it gives you more options in filling it.
personally, i try to keep the number of different brands limited, i don't like small modules either, and i like to have the colour-scheme a bit balanced (scattered that is, because it won't work to get one row black, the other aluminum, another grey) - then i try to get as much vertical lines between modules too. it makes it look neat. ofcourse i realise these are trivial matters, first and foremost it's about sound and not vision. but i can't help myself. as to how to fill the gaps, with what modules, that's up to you. like the previous poster, i would take certain one's out. but hey: it's not my case! you decide what goes in or out. have fun.

I was so inspired by DonghyukHeo’s fantastic interpretations of classical music so I had to try for myself.
The piece is ”Invention 15” by J.S. Bach that I programmed from sheet music into the two track sequencer of a Minibrute 2S.
The sound sources are just two Plaits in chord modes and osc 1 in MB. (One original module and one clone).
Sorry for the bad sound quality but I only have a GoPro for capturing video and audio.

Moderators: can we please delete the previous post, and suspend the account, please ? It's obviously a spambot.
[EDIT: I mean the one before the previous one ;-)]

What I love about modular:

• The gritty analog sound. I may be in the minority here, but I'm sensitive to, and interested in, sound texture down to its finest grain. I'm not disparaging digital sound - it can be beautiful too in its own right, but in emulating analog, it's always a bland imitation, to my ears. Now I love digital sound design as well, because there are many things only digital synthesis can do, but I have the computer for that - a much cheaper solution, even though I'll admit it's less fun to use (It's also more efficient). Anyhow, when I want to feel my hair stand at the literal sound of electricity, only analog synths, and more than anything else, my Eurorack, give me that.

• The geekiness of handling signals, coming up with new interesting ways of signal processing, and that a modular synth is half way between an electronics lab and a musical instrument. As I often say: just making music instead of noise is already a feat. Making good music, in those conditions, is a miracle and I have utter admiration for those who manage that (me, I make a few tracks with the modular and integrate them into more conventional instrument tracks to make a song - and I edit a lot afterwards). Getting elaborate music (or just pleasing sound) out of basic electronics with just the use of my brain and hands, is a joy and a marvel.

• Sound design !!! (This is the logical conclusion of the previous two points)

• The physicality of it. (VCV is great, but it doesn't thrill me as hardware does. It's a tad cheaper though, so it has that going for it ;-))

• The fact that my studio looks like an Appolo cockpit. I am a technological peacock.

• The creativity of module creators. (I wish I was better at electronics myself. I know I should make the time to learn that but I don't.)

• The discussions: I love discussing many things, from art to philosophy to psychology to sciences to engineering, and here I find enough geeks to indulge my passion for splitting hair and talking endlessly about a subject; discussing our tastes, reviewing gear, sharing tips and tricks...

• The vibrant community (this is the summary of the last two points ;-))

I'll let you know if I think of anything else.

EDITED Jun 7th 2020, 21:03

I was really enjoying this thread till the business401k bot decided to ruin it.

Thanks for your feedback :-), and thank you for taking the time to listen...!
It's not all modular, but my starting point is often Mutable Instruments Marble + Make Noise STO + Make Noise Wooglebug, and Make Noise Mimeophon which i try to use not really as an effect but more like a voice.
I record in Live, then i take a break (as you may know it's a very important part in the process haha, for real), then in all this mess, with my fresh ears, i spot the "good" parts (and i always need to insert some little silences, because modular production can be such a non-stop torrent of sound, imo).

Sorry for the digression :-), the main voice in this third track is a mix between STO, and two "external" gears : Roland Boutique JU-O6a, and Korg Monologue. They play almost the same notes at almost the same times, and "almost" + a lot of handmade volume and fx automations to make them blend subtly together, is how i get this sound.

I also have to add that i discovered a technique between Live and my modular system : when i record a jam, it's audio, and it's a lot of informations/sounds at the same time. When i find a bit i like, i sometimes use the "convert melody to midi" function, which gives me some new surprises i can use to play again thru my modular (with CV Tools)... endless fun haha

Hi Thingue,

Ha, ha, that's indeed quite some dance and rhythm stuff you made there, amazing! I like track Outte the most, some beautiful sounds you managed to capture there. Is that all modular and if yes, how did you made those main voices?

Thanks a lot for sharing and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Hi Sweelinck, All,

What I love about modular is the enormous flexibility for starters, then knowing this, at least theoretically, you can build any kind of (modular) synthesizer (system) you want. That kind of freedom, again the flexibility that it provides, is beyond believe and borders. The more modules you have, the more complex synthesizer-system you can build, the less good overview you will have of what is all possible because it's just too much ;-)

In that forest of trillions of possibilities, starting your day with a clean system (no patch cables plugged in yet), you start to switch on the system. "The blinking" of the system, as a kind of invitation for you, saying: "Come and try me". Once you switched on the system, stand or like I prefer, sit in front of your modular synth, one hand full with patch cables, the other hand scratching your head, that very moment of starting a new patch, a new design of your upcoming synthesizer, that's what I love so much.

Then the next moments, start to patch, trying out a sound or module, adjusting knobs, trying another patch cable with another module, till you get that sound you were looking for (or not really were looking for but just lucky to find it) and then the next patch parallel to what you got already, making it more complicated, more complete, more your own synthesizer. You build that synthesizer!

That's what I love about modular synthesizers ;-)

Kind regards and have an enjoyable modular weekend,

Garfield Modular.

Those self enforced limitations have been a revelation for me in recent times. Leaving space and knowing what to remove is so important.
Also, I’m pretty sure I saw Damo Suzuki at an art opening in Leipzig, Germany a few years ago. I didn’t ask, but I could swear it was him.

I still have that sort of a room. In fact, I've spent the past year updating and upgrading it.

The biggest problem with having a well-equipped studio doesn't come from the volume of equipment. After all, it just sits there until it gets used. Instead, it comes from indiscipline...the idea that because these things are there, then they MUST be used. This is the wrong approach, and fits into the category of "blaming the gear for the musician's failings". Just as having some certain device (back in the ACIEEED days, it was the TB-303) is NOT a key to stardom, it's not possible to assign musical capability to the devices at hand. That's 100% on the user.

I recall having some wonderful conversations many years ago with Holger Czukay (RIP) in which this came up. And he pointed out that while Can had many different disciplines in it, ample equipment for the day, and so on...the key to Can BEING Can was in how they restricted what they did. Sure, those restrictions would shift from track to track...but there were always some agreed-to limitations that kept everything working smoothly. Otherwise, the results would've been sheer chaos...which, in fact, they ALSO knew when to employ, such as on "Soup" (on "Ege Bamyasi"). And this is what allows one to have LOADS of gear...but just like how you wouldn't use several dozen colors in one painting just because you happen to have tubes of those colors on hand, you don't want to muddy up your sonic palette by making the same mistake with all of your synths, processors, etc.

Petitions do help...some. But to really get things done, you need to show companies that there's a potential PROFIT in making these things. My suggestion is that if you have a good working relationship with a music retailer that's sizable in its field (like Perfect Circuit or Schneider's for modular, or Thomann or Sweetwater in general), get THEM to bug the manufacturers. Signatures are signatures, and work if a company pays grassroots attention. But RETAILERS making noise = $$$$ in their mindset.

Frankly, I'd like to see Moog get the Spectravox flying in a retail version. It make sense; Moog was a pioneer here as well, with the assistance of Harald Bode, and having one of their vocoders in an AFFORDABLE (ie: not $5,000) version would be very cool.

I love to try to transform all that squeaky "noise" into almost dancing pieces of music.
The process Sound > Music is what is most fun for me.
https://roti.bandcamp.com/

The biggest problem isn't the holes. It's the presence of that Model D in the rack; it needs to be back in its own case, on its own power.

First up, as I've repeatedly noted, it's NOT cost-effective nor space-effective to mount these in Eurorack cabs. Those should be for things that DON'T have housings and power. Plus, you've managed to use 70 hp for a thing that's not even really a module, per se. That's a hellacious chunk of one entire row being taken up by that synth. And while I get the notion that it's supposedly "convenient" to be able to mount these in a Eurorack cab, that convenience is pretty illusory.

I'd suggest...just as an experiment...taking it out and setting it aside. Treat it like it doesn't exist. Then reconsolidate and reorder the actual modules while ignoring an entire row of the cab. I think you'll find that the workflow will make far more sense, plus you'll get a far better idea of the REAL space remaining in the cab that needs filling. And if you absolutely, positively CANNOT live without that Model D being in there (and costing you not only what it did initially, but also for everyone of those 70 hp worth of case space it occupies), put it in the open row (like, the top one).

Remember: just because a manufacturer says that one of their devices can be used in some way does NOT necessarily mean that you should do that. They're in the business of selling things...but not necessarily in the business of doing what WE do as end-users!

Maybe we should look for how many Moog Mother32 have been sold, it would be an indicator, don't you think ?

I made a really nice little patch straight out of the box, pulled all the patch cables.... that ones probably gone ;-)

Or maybe Quadrax instead of Batumi.

I'd say Pam's for sure. Then Batumi?

Alm Pamelas New Workout, XAOC Batumi, Zadar .... appreciate your help.

Well, I don't want to run afoul of forum rules so I can only say that that's a perspective worth considering.

Edited to remove any, however remote, wiff of politics.

There will always be boutique builders, look at any corner of the gear world, they exist, from pedals, to synths, to guitars, drums, recording gear, whatever. So, I hope the costs come down. More people making music is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
-- baltergeist

Well if you don't mind people working for slave wages in places like China you can buy Behringer, you won't get quality though. I personally don't have empathy for people complaining over prices, Modular is far from expensive compared to other musical instruments.

I don't know if your petition helped, but....

Tony Rolando from Make Noise had an interesting take on the numbers. I can't remember exactly, but Make Noise is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, sellers, so far as I know, and even Maths, rated by many as the THE module, hasn't sold ten thousand units yet, I think? It's in his interview with Tim Held on Podmod, if I remember correctly.

Edited to remove any, however remote, wiff of politics.

There will always be boutique builders, look at any corner of the gear world, they exist, from pedals, to synths, to guitars, drums, recording gear, whatever. So, I hope the costs come down. More people making music is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

EDITED Jun 5th 2020, 15:20

I hope this market stays small and on a boutique level. Many modules are expensive to build and the only way to bring the costs down is to produce them with slave labor. I don't care who's the largest manufacturer, some of the best ones are handmade and I hope it stays that way, I prefer talking directly to the builder.

No idea overall, but until the price of entry comes down, it's likely to stay on the niche side.

Many years ago I had a room full of synths and recording equipment: Moog, Arp Odyssey and Omni, DX7, Juno 106, Fender Rhodes, Reason, Ableton, Cubase, plug-ins, guitars, pedals, amps, condenser mics... and I made less music of lower quality than I make today with my entire "studio" that fits on a medium-sized desk.
I love creation, even if it's only for me, and I am now able to create every time I turn on my power switch. The sounds I hear in my head are finally within reach (for the most part). I would have never known this if I had second guessed myself and avoided the modular path.

I completely agree with every Farkas advice. But I do think Plaits stays the best choice to begin with, AND will remain in your rack as a swiss knife even if you get an E352, for example (I've got both).
Talking of drones, Telharmonic is a classic sound source too, and Clouds stays one of the best tools for creative ambient patches, bluring an arp for example...

After reading the thread 'Why to NOT get into modular synthesis' https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3579 I was first a bit disappointed. Then, in a second phase, I felt angry. 'To get or not to get into...'

Primarily, the main thing first and foremost is 'To love': to love music and/or painting, banjo or hightech electronic gear, my trusty old Arp Axxe and this wonderful new module, semi or not semi-modulars, Glenn Gould and Suzanne Ciani, etc and/or so on!

Then I wondered: 'What do I love above all about modular?' (and thank you sincerely Lugia for that). In a few words my own answer would be today: the quality of the sound, to experiment the generative music potential, and all those mesmerizing tiny colorful lights blinking in front of me :)) Beautiful instrument...

So I would be very pleased to know what do YOU LOVE (or prefer) about modular?
Thanks in advance for your words an confidences.

Hi Peeps

Would it be possible to be able to have different width cases for a rack?

Up until now I have lumped my two cases, a Doepfer 9U x 84HP and a Doepfer 6U x 84HP base case, into one rack on Modular Grid.

I have always thought it would be nice to be able to see both of those cases separate but in one "rack" instead of seeing them as one big system. I know we can have many racks but I like to be able to swap stuff between cases without having to flip backwards and forwards between Modular Grid racks.

Now, though, I have a Arturia 6U Rackbrute which is 89HP wide and I therefore either have make my rack all 89HP wide and add blanking plates or ignore the extra 5HP per row I have in the Rackbrute.

Perhaps I'm being a bit OCD here haha!

cheers

andy

https://learningmodular.com/

Pretty new to all this, but I'm curious what street your stuck on and might help others.

Mine is shipping out today. If I find a way to put it to good use I will share.

@farkas : hehe, I see you have a furthrrrr in your rack too ;-).

@jtdaugherty : In the west-coast complex oscillators, there's also Instruo's Cs-L. As I said, there are many, but this one deserves a mention too.

If I were to describe the respective sonic character of all I mentioned, I would say: The Furthrrrr sounds fat, the Verbos sounds electrical and the Cs-L sounds clean. Oh, MakeNoise makes one too I suppose, and I would generally describe their sound as "bouncy" ;-).

I also mentioned Future Sound System's Recombination thingy, but it's a completely different design so it doesn't compete in the exact same category. Anyway, from the demos I heard, I'd say the principle is great, but I find the resulting sound a tad dull for the price. (though I have a distortion from them, and that one is not dull at all)

EDITED Jun 4th 2020, 20:48

That's an interesting observation thanks epsteinframe!

I intuitively knew, or lets say I had a gut feeling, that this is exactly what it would be like and have always resisted, good to know I was on the right lines.

I use Per|former - and I am very happy!!

Bought and sold ER-101/2 again very powerful, but shockingly awful to actually use in any meaningful way, unless you happen to like never being able to see your entire sequence and can hold everything in your memory, if you were good at playing Simon as a kid and can remember multiple instances of very long strings of numbers then it may suit you.

Bought ad sold Eloquencer, it's fine but I just didn't get on with it, especially the song mode, I believe it has had firmware updates since I used it so it may be different now.

Hope this helps :)

EDITED Jun 4th 2020, 20:27

Congratulations!!!

Maybe you would show us what you do with them please?

EDITED Jun 4th 2020, 20:15

Yeah, the Furthrrr Generator is amazing too. I don't enjoy making music on the computer so I have a fair mix of analog and digital stuff. Different strokes for different folks is the beauty of modular. Whatever you want to accomplish, there is something out there to help. Which again brings us back to the point of thinking in terms of what you, personally, want to accomplish overall, how you like to work, taking an educated guess, and diving in with the first piece(s) of your new system.
Let us know how it goes!

You might all know those moments, when you find aksking yourself: "Dose all this stuff make Sense just 2 me, or maybe to other People as well? What do you think? And how would YOU fill up the empty spaces and WHY!?
Maybe your fresh Ideas lead me out of that musical one-way street Iam temporarily in :D ;)

EDITED Jun 4th 2020, 18:57

Thanks, @fredeke - that gives me more to think about!

I would say, if you want to drone you would need at least one sound source and one modulation. If you want to buy only one module, then I'd look for one that can do both simultaneously so as to modulate itself. You could get a complex oscillator: that's a single module made of at least two oscillators - and one of them would need to be able to get as slow as an LFO. For example, the Endorphin.es Furthrrr would be that. One of its oscillators goes into a wavefolder (which is a kind of waveshaper that makes mignificent purring drones) and the other can act as an LFO or a modulating VCO. That's the standard west-coast design and many other brands offer the equivalent: Verbos' Complex Oscillator, to name just one... Unfortunately, those modules are expensive (usually around $500) - they cost as much as two or three basic modules, which is essentially what they are, just bundled together and internally pre-patched.
Now you have other types of complex (read: multiple) oscillators than the west coast. More modern designs include Future Sound System's Recombination Engine, to name just one more - but they all have that high price tag in comon :-/

Just so you know my bias: I almost exclusively consider analog modules. My thinking is that for digital sound, I already have a computer. Not everybody agrees with me and that's fine. I've seen people do amazing things with all-digital racks. But now you see why my recommendation is different from @farkas 's one, which I respect nevertheless.

[EDIT: I now realize @farkas' recommendation is not that different: It is a complex oscillator after all. I had it mistaken for the same brand's quad wavetable)

EDITED Jun 4th 2020, 20:37

@farkas Thank you!

I've done a boatload of research for my personal preferences, and DivKid's and Mylar Melodies' videos on YouTube have been invaluable for helping me decide what would work best for my rack. The beauty of this whole thing becomes apparent when interactions happen. You might make a few mistakes on your way there, and your path might change. I've mentioned before that I only bought a few modules from my original plan due to my ongoing research. It's part of the fun, but can be very expensive for sure.
Check out this video for a module demo from DivKid that is incredible for droning ambient stuff:

The more videos you watch, the more you will be able to envision how different modules will interact to achieve the results you want.