All Posts

Hi Exposure,

Wow, 20+ minutes :-) As you might know I am not too much of a Techno person, however I do feel your track is pretty good here because for a Techno track, you have tons of variations and interesting sounds used here and that's not always very common with (classic) Techno. With the 20+ minutes you fulfil a "very important new requirement" here on this forum (drones should be at least 17 minutes long), only turning it into a drone/ambient kind of thing and then it's perfect ;-)

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

My suggestion for listening to get a real sense of how stereo field depth (or field depth in general) to work would be to pick up a copy of the Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds", especially the recent (2001) reissue that contains both the original mono mix by Chuck Britz and Brian Wilson, but which ALSO has a new stereo mix made by Brian and Mark Linett. This is a great opportunity to really deep-dive and study HOW these mixes work, because the stereo version went back to the source reels for the new mix, so in BOTH cases, they're working from the same recorded material.

What's really amazing is how the stereo field behaves...and then contrasting that with the 1966 mono version. In both cases, there are a lot of "depth cues", but this just makes the 1966 mix even more jaw-dropping, because Britz and Wilson were able to give an apparent front-back depth of field WITHOUT the use of stereophonic mixing. It's hard enough to get that feel out of a stereo mix (M/Sed or not!), which frankly makes the 1966 mono mix a work of pure genius. Seriously, this one album deserves to be carefully studied by ANYONE working with audio engineering, whether they do electronic music or not!

Hi Klngvrhltnss and Lugia,

Interesting tread! How to place something in stereo right or left field is kind of half-way understood however getting something beautifully placed in the middle, so it sounds perfectly well in the stereo sweet spot is getting less clear to me. Then, even more unclear to me is, how to put for example one instrument in the front-middle of stereo and another instrument in the back-middle of the stereo field; I have no idea. With that I mean that you really can hear that one instrument is "closer" to you while the other instruments seems to be more far away from you (i.e. away from the listener). Any information on that would be very welcome. Preferable within Eurorack but if that's getting too difficult then out of the Eurorack is fine too.

Thank you very much in advance and kind regards, Garfield.

Get an FX Aid XL instead of the Milky Way. I have both.
You can thank me later ;)
-- farkas

good looking out Fark, I actually just watched a vid where someone was using two of these. they seem dope

EDITED Dec 20th 2020, 00:23

Very nice sounds, but the tune potentiometers are very sensitive. It's a pain to tune them right and they change the tuning from touching alone.

A Buchla 400!? Man...those are not common AT ALL. You should go back and see if his has the usual touchplates or if it has a black and white keyboard. If it's the latter, I only know of ONE offhand which was built for Mark Isham! It'd be amazing if that's the one he's got...

I don't use this on my modular gear, Instead, what I find useful about M/S "abuse" is its ability to spread the mix and, thanks to some phasing trickery in the typical M/S network, the ability to cause the stereo image to exceed the left-right boundaries. So I tend to use these on submixes when I need a 'wider' result, and on some more ambient stuff, I'll put a M/S network plugin on the mixbus to make that stereo field sound massive and deep.

Mind you, there are some risks to this. One thing it'll do is to make your mixes VERY mono-incompatible. Also, you have to keep an ear out for phase cancellations that the M/S network settings might be causing in more extreme settings. Plus, if you want to put something processed like this on vinyl, you'll have to use some serious low-end summing to mono to make the track's low end under control. If that's not done, your lathe engineer will be cussing you up and down, because out of phase BASS results in a situation where the cutting head cannot physically cut that to a lacquer...and REALLY extreme out of phase bass can, in fact, wreck the cutting head!

Ahhh, OK...hm, what I'd do would be to drop the Pam's right off the bat, because you don't really need timing and/or more modulation with that Maths in there. Instead, you need a proper input module and something isolating for an output because, if you're using external inputs, you have a higher possibility of AC leakage and other sorts of crud coming in on the outputs.

So...drop the Pam's. Then, you need to get a Nonlinearcircuits Envelope Follower (which also contains an input preamp and a 1/4" input jack) and a Happy Nerding Isolator. This leaves 2 hp (like it has now), and for that, my suggestion would be York Modular's Lockhart Wavefolder, which would also give you some selective distortion capabilities.

The envelope follower will output a modulation CV based on the input amplitude, which you'd find useful with either the Rings or the Wavefolder. And the output module features transformer isolation, which means you've got some "iron" in the signal path which would play nicely with a bit of overdrive to it, adding some nice euphonic warmup to the outputted signal.

Those two aren't really for percussion, though...instead, that pair of 4 hp modules are ones I selected so that you can have massive, slab-cracking BASS. The two slightly detuned VCOs plus that suboscillator will have the capability of generating POUNDING low-end. Also, when you're dealing with that sort of bass sound, you want simpler waveforms which will have more kinetic energy at their fundamentals. Think "Miami bass", but taken to a more violent level.

Get an FX Aid XL instead of the Milky Way. I have both.
You can thank me later ;)

not that anyone is still paying attention but this is a revised revision B^)

Yeah Mylar is a cool dude and so relaxing to listen to that soothing voice except when he gets excited lol. I mix the mindless lets just patch shit and turn knobs and dials and observe what happens with study and reading then patching. I also try to apply DAW principles to my patches to create an actual track. Last night, my new Acid Rain technologies Maestro module arrived which is super fun that lets you create tracks with lots of modulations in separate swim lanes. I was excited to see a modular company build a product that brings DAWlike performance to modular. Creating song like chain patterns with my new WMD percussion modules and Plaits into Rings was a game changer for me.

Hello, this looks like a great utility module!

I took a few minutes and straightened your uploaded images, to fit better in the 16hp of modulargrid. It's not perfect, but feel free to use these for anything.

Images for Threshold, VCO-3A and Gate Step-Up
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ahbric9xuyrb3xv/AACYn5kULsTtSEGyO_wlSPKCa?dl=0

best,
Alex

Thanks @Exposure for your kind words. Very nice to hear that....
All the best

Thanks Garfield

Most of the percussion sounds were capture with a JRH microphone plug into a Mikrophonie module.

a simple way to make a high-pass from a low-pass is to invert the low-passed signal and add it to the unfiltered signal. I guess this is exactly what the Doepfer Wasp is doing.
-- the-erc

Thanks @the-erc for explaining! This makes perfect sense. Good to know, that it's not a malfunction but a principle based behaviour.

@GarfieldModular Let's talk about tips and tricks for Mid/Side processing in Eurorack in another thread.

EDITED Dec 19th 2020, 11:43

I've been playing around with Mid/Side processing in Eurorack, lately. As it's not easy to find helpful information on that topic, I thought it might be a good idea, to start a thread here, for discussing and collecting information.

Mid/Side processing is a commonly used mastering technique (more info here and here), but can also be used in modular synthesizers, to enrich/enhance/manipulate your stereo image. The basic principle is based on splitting a stereo signal into one sum (Mid) and one diff (Side) signal. These are mono signals of their own, which can be processed independently and differently, before being combined, to form a stereo signal again.

In Eurorack this can be done with modules such as the Worng LRMSMSLR or Shakmat SumDif.

I usually use this method inside my system to gain a wider stereo image, by splitting my master stereo out and processing the Side signal as follows: cutting its low end, boosting its mid frequencies and raising its volume. Works pretty well (apart from that irritating but logical behaviour described and clarified here).

I think it's a great technique to play around and get creative with. I would be interest in how others judge and use this in modular synthesis. What are your experiences, tips or best practices regarding Mid/Side processing in Modular?

EDITED Dec 19th 2020, 12:02

I think I've heard Mylarmelodies say he practices as if he was performing in front of an audience. So just set a time box, lets say one hour, and keep going no matter what.

When jamming I sometimes stop and repatch, tweak a sequence or whatever. I couldn't do that in front of an audience, you can't stop the music and have to keep it interesting over time. I might try this kind of practice next time, it's a bit like sacguy71's mindless patch approach.

Lately I'm also enjoying some podcasts and talks, the one Mylarmelodies did with Surgeon was great, and all the STOOR's Knob Twiddlers Hangout series are also fantastic, even if they are not specific to modular synths.

I recorded some long loops into Ableton and arranged it like a dj session. I wish I could do it all from the modular instead of using the computer, but I think I would need a few more voices and mixers to do it all in just one take.

Well done Rassell!! I'm loving it and I'm also getting that J.M Jarre vibe. Sounds very professional and the video is fantastic as we get to see what's going on with the modular.

Thanks for sharing.

Hi GarfieldModular,

thanks a lot for your very kind words. I feel very honored... it makes my weekend even better...

All the best

@Lugia,

All good points.

Creative process is what led me down the modular hole. My Schlappi Engineering Angle Grinder and 100 grit modules arrived today and they were a joy to just patch and tweak for some otherworldly tones. I am still reading manuals and videos in between but the experimental side is what I really enjoy the most. I like these weird do cool modules that regular synths and computer VSTs cannot achieve without great programming efforts where a couple patch cables will do the trick for 1-2 modules.

Some filters invert the signal. This is the cause of the stereo image flipping in mid/side chain.

Here's the maths. There should be a lot of dividing by two to make this work exactly, but for simplicity I'm going ignore that. To start with :

M = L+R
S = L - R

Normally I retrieve the stereo signal by doing the same trick again :

M + S = (L+R) + (L -R) = L
M - S = (L+R) - (L -R) = R

But if I pass S through an inverter to get

S' = -S = R - L

When I recombine I now :

M + S' = (L + R) + (R - L) = R

which is not the side I was expecting!

Incidentally, a simple way to make a high-pass from a low-pass is to invert the low-passed signal and add it to the unfiltered signal. I guess this is exactly what the Doepfer Wasp is doing.

EDITED Dec 19th 2020, 03:07

Hi Klngvrhltnss,

Thanks a lot for the information and the hint, I will give that a try with my SumDif module :-)

I read the link you provide, not all yet, however one question arises... how to take a voice more into the front of the stereo view and how to put for example another (less important sound perhaps) to the back of the stage?

Sorry, that I can't help you with your question. Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi @GarfieldModular, I'm splitting the stereo signal into its sum (all info, that is the same in L and R) and its diff (all info, that is different in L and R) signal. Those are mono signals of their own, and can be combined, after processing, to form a stereo signal again. That's the wonders of Mid/Side processing, a commonly used mastering techniques. In Eurorack you can do that with modules such as the Worng LRMSMSLR or Shakmat SumDif.

EDITED Dec 19th 2020, 11:29

Hi Rassell,

Wow, that's something nice there man! You got a lot of surprise sounds in there that I really like :-)

Oh, and then your video with a beautiful view of your modular setup and seeing you here at work, that's so great and so enjoyable to watch! I like the "bird view" moments in the video as well, nice touch :-)

If you would tell me you are in real J.M. Jarre or Vangelis (your music sounds a bit too modern for Vangelis, so I would go for J.M. Jarre) and you are just using here a nickname, then I would believe you! :-) This is serious good stuff and very entertaining!

You must be nuts to start from scratch and break down this setup, it's so nice! It hurts me that you tell us this ;-)

Now I finally got a good beginning of this weekend (thanks to you!), thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

P.S.: And I am going to click on the play button again, there is so much to discover here in this track of yours!

Hi Defragmenteur,

You got some interesting sounds there :-) I am especially impressed by those almost kind of percussion sounds that kind of tick-tack through it, sounds very intriguing!

Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Klngvrhltnss,

I have difficulties to pronounce your name ;-)

To be honest, I don't get your point here. I am most probably not understanding what you try to say: How can a mono-filter like the Doepfer A-124 Wasp filter inverts your stereo image. I am having difficulties to understand that...

Kind regards, Garfield Modular.

I've been playing around with Mid/Side processing, lately. I'm using the Worng Electronics LRMSMSLR to split my stereo signal into one sum (the Mid) and one diff (the Side) signal. Thus Mid and Side can be processed independently and differently, before being converted back (added) to a usual left/right stereo signal. This can create some interesting, special and great effects. I use this method inside my system to gain a wider stereo image by processing the Side signal as follows: cutting its low end, boosting its mid frequencies and raising its volume. Works pretty well. However, I came across one problem, that made me wonder:

Running the Side signal through certain modules inverts the stereo image, i.e. sounds that are in the right channel before processing are in the left channel after processing and vice versa. I investigated that mostly with my filters: North Coast MSK 009, Doepfer A-124 Wasp, Noise Engineering Viol Ruina. Pretty interesting results. Using the MSK 009 inverts the signal, no matter if the HP, BP or LP output is used. Using the Viol Ruina outputs does not invert the signal. Using the BP out on the Doepfer Wasp inverts the signal. Using the LP/HP out on the Doepfer Wasp inverts the signal, when Mix is in LP position (ccw), but does not invert it, when Mix is in HP position (cw).

I understand how filters function in a analytical/mathematical way, but I'm definitely lacking electronical knowledge to comprehend what could be causing this different and strange behaviour.

Can anyone help to clarify?

EDITED Dec 18th 2020, 23:27

In case anyone is still looking at this thread.... here's some revisions I might shoot for before giving in to a bigger case

EDITED Dec 18th 2020, 22:54

I played around with this for some days. And now the end is near, I will start from scratch tomorrow. Here ist what I came up with...

Trying to build an effects setup for bringing in outside sound sources.

Thanks, will check on that. Worth notice - I havent yet bought Crater and crucible yet, i think BIA is making some really punchy and hard kicks but its so useful as well for other sounds. maybe overwhelming to have crater as well? It sounds so damn good though...

Maybe instead of buying the crater (or) crucible it would be a option to buy the ataraxic/cursus iteritas, Thats a really nice wavetable vco imo.

EDITED Dec 19th 2020, 10:16

What's this supposed to be, exactly?

VCO makes sense, but I'm more prone to suggest taking that further. Instead of just one VCO, try a Zlob Dual VCO (4 hp) and tandem that with a Ladik O-410 suboscillator (also 4 hp). That way, you get two VCOs for detuning (sounds bigger) AND octave division (major bass) that tracks one of those VCOs. Now THAT would BANG!

EDITED Dec 18th 2020, 19:52

Since you're in a module-dumping mood, I decided to push that a bit further...

A lot of the original is still in there, but I altered the layout for a bit of coherence and ease of use. The Quadnic now has its own summing mixer, as does the Plaits, A-110 and A-115. Then, a new thing from Alright, their Zzzorb state-variable and VCA combo is before the Rings. Then a proper pannable stereo mixer ends that row.

The bottom row has the modulation components. I started with a Kinks, so as to add some basic logic for timing to mess with, a bit of a rectifier/waveshaper, and a sample and hold with a white noise source. Marbles, then Ochd, then a Triatt for summing some of the Ochd outputs, or mixing those with the Maths (got rid of the Contour...why have one when two is better?). A pair of ADSRs for more straightforward envelope use, then the new Veils which brings the VCA total in here to five. The uBursts is next...and then there's the OUT. That last thing is super useful because not only does it give you isolated stereo outs, it has a second stereo IN with a ganged level control, which would be perfect for mixing the stereo out from the uBursts "voice" into the general mix. And you get a headphone preamp, too. And metering.

I did kick out the passive mults (use inlines instead...makes more sense with this small a build) and all of the Intellijel audio mixers because they just didn't seem to be a good fit here. Instead, the Triatt allows polarization of mod signals in addition to mixing, and the ability to invert mod signals was pretty lacking here in the first place. And the HN PanMix jr. DOES allow stereo panning whereas the Intellijels didn't. By and large, though, this retains much of your needed signal paths while adding some extra functionality to push the build even further. In cases such as the Doepfer mixers, I simply shrunk them. Plus, the Zzzorb will give you way more timbral flexibility than the A-120 ever could.

So, yeah...if you go further here on dropping modules out, this might be a good direction. Denser functionality, for one thing, will push the build way past what it was capable of previously. As for other changes, the Plaits/A-110/115 combo still kinda bugs me (the A-110 is pretty deep by present-day standards, and there's smaller octave dividers out there) and that would be what I would look at next, perhaps by going with smaller Plaits clones (2 > 1, after all), a different VCO (double?), and a proper waveshaper + divider combo with Tiptop's Fold Processor or some such. Although, the rectifier and logic sections of the Kinks can also serve as very useful waveform manglers in their own right, so maybe just a divider would work there.

Any reason (such as remaining power connections) why it couldn't be 2 modules that will fit 8hp?
-- merzky_shoom

Two modules could be fine as well, do you have something in mind?

Any reason (such as remaining power connections) why it couldn't be 2 modules that will fit 8hp?

What kind of music are you making? Do you have other external gear?
edit
I would probably lean towards a multi-function module like the Disting EX. If you like your rack as-is, the Disting EX would give you access to just about anything else you might need. Sample and Hold, quantizers, noise, wavetable VCO, LFO, tuner, delay, phaser, sample playback... That's probably how I would fill that hole anyway.
Have fun and good luck.

EDITED Dec 18th 2020, 19:35

Hi,

So im crazily happy with my rack at the moment, but I want to fill my last 8HP and im kind of stuck what to do about it and wonder if what you would've added? Would be great with some suggestions since im totally blank of alternatives,

the only thing ive thought about was to get a proper vco - Dixie II but im open for suggestions,

best

EDITED Dec 18th 2020, 16:31

Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Lugia, thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed answer! It does look like a really versatile build, I will make sure to check out every module you listed here. Cheers!

The operation of the pots seems very smooth with no jumpiness and no crackles or noise at the output.

My first

mine still has crazy high frequenzy noise issues :/
any ideas?

My actual rack in use, 8+6 HP freed up, looking to add some new things.

• Quadnic used for drone type backgrounds.
• Doepfer A-110 +A-115 + A-120 used to run sequencial patterns (using two external sequencers).
• MI Marbles + Plaits + Rings + uBurst used for atmospheric / ambient sounds.
• Make Noise function and A-140 adsr used for envelopes, shapes, modulation.
• Ochd LFO's for modulation of everything
• MI Links to combine and distribute gate CV and triggers from external sequencers and Marbles.
• 2x Doepfer mixer for CV and audio of both oscillators, Ochd, Function, filter and adsr.
• 2x Intellijel Mixup and multiples to mix into uBurst and to mix to outboard 16 channel mixer/recorder.
• Drone mono, arp/sequence both seperate mono out to external 16 channel mixer/recorder.
• Plaits dry sound (both Out and Aux) seperate to external mixer/recorder.
• uBurst (with combined Plaits and stereo Rings) stereo out to external mixer/recorder.

Got rid off some stuff and have 8+6 hp free to add some new stuff. No idea yet what it should be.

EDITED Dec 18th 2020, 10:48

Such a great discussion and I waited on larger modules until I had a much larger case and even then I made sure to get plenty of support modules like attenuators, cv mixer, logic, vcas, etc. It really makes a difference and with that can get a few sound sources but need lots more modulation than expected. A lot of modules like Noise Engineering have tons of cv patch points begging to be modulated and mixed. I make use of matrix mixer and quad LFOs quite a bit now. I find that having 2-3 oscillators and a filter or two go a long way with the support modules. I have Quadrax with the QX expander in my smaller case and it is amazing! I recommend Pamela New Workout as that does so much as well. Lately in a larger setup, I am having a blast with Erogeneous Tones Radar for 8 envelope/function generators and that is one modulation powerhouse and you can expand it with Blip as well.
-- sacguy71

Thanks for the advice and recommendations, I'm thinking a Pam's is definitely on my list. Honestly this thread is starting to make me question my entire approach and setup which I guess is a good thing.

Such a great discussion and I waited on larger modules until I had a much larger case and even then I made sure to get plenty of support modules like attenuators, cv mixer, logic, vcas, etc. It really makes a difference and with that can get a few sound sources but need lots more modulation than expected. A lot of modules like Noise Engineering have tons of cv patch points begging to be modulated and mixed. I make use of matrix mixer and quad LFOs quite a bit now. I find that having 2-3 oscillators and a filter or two go a long way with the support modules. I have Quadrax with the QX expander in my smaller case and it is amazing! I recommend Pamela New Workout as that does so much as well. Lately in a larger setup, I am having a blast with Erogeneous Tones Radar for 8 envelope/function generators and that is one modulation powerhouse and you can expand it with Blip as well.

EDITED Dec 18th 2020, 05:21

EDITED Dec 18th 2020, 03:19

2 x 104 makes a LOT more sense, especially since it's commonly and CHEAPLY available thanks to Tiptop and their Mantis case. Also, one best-kept secret might be found by checking out Erica's cases; they have a 3 x 126 for about $550-ish with beefy power. It's a little shallow, but as long as you stay under 45mm on depths, you're golden. Plus...the guitar can still go into the modular via the A-119. You lose the stereo return, but the "abuse potential" there is pretty massive with its envelope follower. Run the guitar through something like a Dynacomp to pull the level up on sustain, then just mix it like another "oscillator" while using the envelope follower to control VCF/VCA behavior.