ModularGrid uses so-called cookies to ensure it's so-called functionality. We also use dubious tracking scripts. Find out more in the Privacy Policy. We use cookies and wanna let you know.
Thanks guys! I'm still chewing on what options are best for me and available. Looks like ES3/5/6 are my preferred options presently as they could route into my existing interface options and by physically pretty easy to manage (vs. lots of re-patching in hidden corners of the studio). Yes making a more "networked" studio to bounce audio & CV around my various devices (like jb61264 going into Hydrasynth) would be great; makes me wonder how much I/O I will actually need!
I'll take a moment to bake into the thread some other helpful resources I've found on this question (in case anyone else refers back to this thread for info).
-- Sweetwater's list of DC-coupled interfaces: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/which-audio-interfaces-are-dc-coupled/ ... lots of options including the MOTU devices mentioned above
-- Expert Sleeper's list of interface modules and expanders: https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/moduleoverview.html
-- other options (mentioned above and consolidated here): Ornament & Crime, ADDAC 222/221, Befaco VCMC & CV Thing. Many basic "gate to MIDI" options from Doepfer, Ladik, VPME
-- Loopop on Midi to CV and back:
-- Divkid on Midi to CV and back:
First thing I would suggest: remove the ES-8 and go with an outboard interface. Any DC-coupled audio interface works, and I and a couple of others here use the "obsolete" MOTU 828mkii as that.
-- Lugia
I was thinking the same, I have an RME-Fireface UCX II but I thought that the ES-8 would let me record and manipulate at least 8 channels separately instead of the stereo output of the rack.
If this is supposed to interface with a Max patch, it's awfully limited. And a lot of that is directly attributable to trying to use too small a cab for the build.
-- Lugia
I have this other rack idea, I don't have too much money to spend on a gigantic Eurorack case but I think I can learn a lot with a case like this for a year or so. I want to process my snare drum in real-time with a modular and Max, using percussion modules that will blend and activate with the snare triggering through Max. This kind of stuff but with a modular approach:
Feature request: add the ability to archive racks for when you're tired of looking at them but don't want to delete them!
-- troux
+1 for me :-)
P.S. / Edit: Since that would costs storage on the web server, it might be considered to make this available to unicorn accounts only?
-- GarfieldModular
+1 here as well...but as for the archiving, a better idea might be some sort of DLable format that can be read (but obviously NOT manipulated) offline by users. By setting up the ability to DL and UL archived racks, this then opens up MG's storage issues while still letting users work on their racks...archived or otherwise...at will. And yeah, this oughta be a Unicorn feature...yet another reason for getting that Unicorn account.
If this is supposed to interface with a Max patch, it's awfully limited. And a lot of that is directly attributable to trying to use too small a cab for the build. As many of us here have noted, trying to use these "beauty case" builds is fraught with restrictions that actually impair the synth's capabilities and performability. They're fine for "mission specific" rigs, but trying to build a full-on Max destination in one is asking for trouble.
First thing I would suggest: remove the ES-8 and go with an outboard interface. Any DC-coupled audio interface works, and I and a couple of others here use the "obsolete" MOTU 828mkii as that. By going with an outboard interface, you can easily expand via various interface I/Os, plus the 828mkii isn't considered "optimal" for recording these days, so they come in for cheap. And Ableton CV Tools has really good DAW integration as...well, it's part of Live in the first place, so there's no need to hunt down plugs, screw excessively with interfacing protocols, and the like. Also, since it's NOT in the cab, you'll be more likely to want to use it on other CV/g/t-capable synths.
One essential module for ANY external instrument has to be an input preamp WITH an envelope follower. That last part is essential; given the peculiar envelope that a shamisen has, it's something you'll 100% want to work with for modulating filters, VCAs and the like. That way, you can also use the shamisen as a controller that can be used to impose its envelope behavior onto the electronic signals.
And it's also not expensive; the Doepfer A-119 is pretty much the "gold standard" at only $99, and it provides a comparator gate in addition to the preamp and envelope follower. When the incoming level exceeds your threshold setting, the A-119 fires off a gate, which stops when the level goes back below the threshold.
Ha! You've discovered some of the other voodoo that an outboard DC-coupled interface allows!
This sort of thing is why I went with it. Instead of having the CV I/O as a device-dedicated setup, using an external interface in this way is much more fluid. And given that Ableton WILL allow multiple types of streams to the 828 via CV Tools along with the easy (and CHEAP) implementation of more I/O channels...well, hey, it kinda sells itself! And with the right adjustments to CV Tools allowing compatibility to...well, pretty much anything that'll take CVs...it's possible to have those scalings present whenever you call them up.
Wow, a new album, that's great! With EP do you mean the real thing on a vinyl record? That would be fantastic! :-)
All tracks make use of a lot of fun sounds, nice and attractive to the listener! From those four tracks, my favourite is the Wednesday Acid track. Kind of relaxing to listen at. By the way, how is the Metropolix?
Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I'm new to modular synthesizers and I'm deeply in love with it. I'm into Max/MSP and algorithmic synthesis and I want to adventure in this world. I'd like to get more into it but have very little knowledge so far. Does this rack look good? Am I missing something? I'm trying to achieve some sort of probabilistic sequencer with the possibility to implement some patches from Max/MSP through the Expert Sleepers ES-8. Would you replace something? Would you recommend something else? There are some redundant modules? Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Still working on some new tunes, the first one on this EP I shared before, but there's three new ones, including the first track I've recorded with the Metropolix, galaktoboureko acid. You can check em out here:
EP isn't finished yet, I'll probably add one more, something a bit more uptempo, but I thought I'd share anyway. Hope you enjoy!
Thanks Farkas, I appreciate it. I'm pretty sure I double the bass drum from the Numeric Repetitor, sending that to both the Quad Drum and the BIA. I'm finding so many new things in the BIA this week - not surprising that the founders say that pretty much the company's success is based on getting that module so right. When I got back into modular a few weeks back it was the first thing on my Modular Grid mockup!
The MOTU828 has been a great solution for me so far...I have successfully used CV Tools with it and just recently found another cool use where I take audio out from Ableton into my Hydrasynth desktop as a ring modulation source...granted I have just played around with that and not really composed anything with it, but it is cool to run some crazy Serum sound out into my Hydrasynth and ring modulate with some of the crazy waves available. My Hydrasynth audio then runs out into my modular where I can do other stuff with it...FX Aid XL has been fun to use with it too :)
This began as a metal project, and went way off into something else. I said to Markus at Noise Engineering that I was thinking of making a metal track, and he mentioned that he had made many 'blast beats'. Having no precise definition of this - but a feel for what it might sound like - I decided to simply start with the Enter Sandman riff and go from there. It's totally lost in the wild envelopes and filtering, but that's probably for the best.
The WMD C4RBN was the obvious filter due to its natural propensity for aggression, and the Basimilus was always going to wind up in the mix. The Desmodus gets a more leisurely outing this time, but it's still pretty active. The rest of the patch is really a mass of multed envelopes and LFOs sending everything to the threshold between music and noise, and beyond it.
Thanks to all for yours advices.
Stages of Mutable Instruments is very interesting but I’d like something more easy for take practice with the roots of eurorack.
Top tap z400 or Erica Synth seem like a good starting point.
Thanks GfM :) This started out as some background sound at first and was very easy listening.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
End of night here soon so a shortish post for now.
COMC#2 will have some stuff you don’t need. But it’s great overall. The “63 rules” of counterpoint he has, I take as “tendencies” eg what follows them tends to sound good and what busts them tends to sound bad. But it’s not clad in stone. Parallels, for example, are openly admitted in some styles of music. BUT the “63 rules” will give you a very good idea of if something sounds bad, why it does. And reducing the number and severity of flaws, what is left is much improved! Yes COMC books are “heavy lifting” but I totally needed these to get some command over writing pitched parts. COMC2 is a godsend IMO.
You mentioned Getting contrary motion might be a problem. Here’s a suggestion: drive a lane of Maestro’s CV through a quantizer. Take the same lane of CV and invert it, shift and scale it as needed, quantize that. Boom! Perfect contrary motion! Or same idea but just use a 2nd lane of Maestro going down or up, paired so it is contrary to the 1st voice. If using 2 lanes you can run them at different rates. If using a switch, you can toggle/switch in DC to give you oblique motion.
My Maestro won’t arrive for a few days so I haven’t implemented exactly this idea yet but I’m soon to test it IRL. In idea form it should work.
More later. Glad to have offered some help and stimulating ideas. Cheers!
I've just realized the Metropolix can reverse the sequence for one voice while playing normally for the other voice. This should allow me to provide a nice amount of contrary motion so long as I program the sequence to 'advance' upwards or downwards in pitch. Very very good, as it's proving somewhat difficult to jam a Scales and a Switchblade in; it's doable, but requires sacrifices.
Good gracious, 'The Craft of Musical Composition: Book 2' by Hindemith has achingly specific instructions on what exactly to do within melody-crafting. Frankly @nickgreenberg, I'm impressed that you can recommend a book like this. I'm just trying to craft a system that won't get me booed off the dance floor. Thank you, I've ordered a copy and I'll see what I can make of it.
I imagine contrary motion will be somewhat more difficult to pull off with something like the Metropolix, but I think I could put together some oblique counterpoint in a fairly non-complex manner. I'll have to do some testing, and some deeper research into counterpoint music theory.
Running the Maestro through a quantizer like Scales is something I hadn't thought of, excellent. Let me see if I can fit in a Switchblade and Scales to switch between the Metropolix and the Maestro; that could provide me with some momentary controlled contrary motion before switching back to the oblique and (hopefully short) moments of similar motion.
Your post doesn't read as condescending in the slightest, quite the opposite; it has been intensely helpful. One of my weaknesses is my novice grasp of the theory behind music. I appreciate any tips others have to offer, so again, thank you.
Apart from the “what modules” question there are some important music theoretical underpinnings to this effort.
2 moving pitched lines (here bass and lead) invokes all the problems of counterpoint. If you’re not already comfortable in this area I recommend Hindemith’s book. Not sure the exact title but you would find it pretty quick. COMC Book II if I recall…
From that, my ultra short counterpoint summary guidelines are: contrary motion sounds best, oblique next. Similar motion is good only in a small set of circumstances, usually over small distances. When both voices move, they usually need to go from consonance to consonance. Dissonances need to be carefully controlled. Beyond that are a lot of details that would basically require to read the Hindemith book and a lot of time at the keyboard hearing counterpoint problems and how to avoid or resolve them.
Practically, for your application:
— control of available notes (Pitch class sets) will be very important so your sequences are limited to tones that will pair well with the other line. I use Intellijel Scales to for this as I can set an arbitrary set of tones and CV switch between those sets.
— control of the motion of the 2 lines relative to each other (so that they are not in similar motion too often)
SO I can recommend you consider some modules including:
— Scales, or something like it, so you have definitive control on what pitches you’re allowing through
— Acid Rain Maestro or something like that. Six channels of time synched CV. Very jam-able. This way you could have for example up CV for one voice and down CV for another voice. Flow those through your quantization. That gives you complementary pitch values with controlled counterpoint! ARM is in your MG rack above, okay, good!
— some playable switching like Acid Rain Switchblade or Verbos Sequencr selector. That way you can have multiple “feeder” sequences and you play them with the switch. Of course the switches can also be CV driven.
— handling trigger/gate needs separately from pitch, or at least thinking of these as independent. You have Merton, that gives you a lot of options. Running your pitch values from independent lanes, and trigger / gate values from other lanes, that gives you huge flexibility.
BTW I didn’t scrutinize your MG draft rack too closely, just wanted to put out some ideas of what I would need if trying to do what you want to do.
I hope at least some of this is helpful. I hope my post does not sound condescending; I’ve struggled with a lot of these topics before and wanted to share a few of the helpful points I’ve learned. I’m interested to hear how this develops for you. I’ve been working on some similar directions and am curious to hear how this develops for you.
I have the Doepfer A-140 and I like it, it's good quality for a good basic ADSR. I love the inverse output on this module that at certain times comes in very handy.
The Erica Synths Black HADSR EG and the Black VC EG modules are great too. HADSR gives you one more stage, the hold stage. The VC EG gives you control on a per stage level by CVs, lovely module this is. Both of these modules have extension modules available that can be used to give you even more control (and outputs).
Good luck for the search for a great EG and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I know this is an old thread, but I've been wondering about this myself lately.
I rarely see them mentioned in the modular discussions and channels I've followed so far. They always have modules available that seem pretty affordable for what they do, with an interesting design aesthetic, but they just seem so glossed/passed over for the most part. I briefly had a Mini-Shimmery in my "first wave" of modular purchases as I was getting into it and setting up an initial rack, and while I didn't hang onto it for the long term, it was a cool enough little unit for its price.
If anyone else has good/bad experiences with Blue Lantern or their modules, I'd be curious to hear impressions.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Maybe this is not as tricky as I thought it would be? I'm still chewing on the topics at hand, while searching for modules that might fit my need and be in stock. Expert Sleepers modules likely would work for me (esp the Lightpipe versions ES3&6) but stock is out on that stuff.
I am still wondering, assuming you get CV into the DAW, then what? Route / process it with Silent Way plugins? Certainly I'll find more info via additional Google & Youtube searches. But if anyone who's already running this in DAW has comments, I'm very happy to hear them!
Currently the Elektrofon Klang is not being produced. I have spoken with Rune Waruus numerous times over the past two years. Klang was a sideline during his normal job up until early 2021. He has been busy staring up a new company with the financial aid from Norway. The primary obstacle facing Rune in trying to bring the Klang back into production is the shortage of electronic components and supply chain necessary to resume production. The pandemic has desperately hurt many companies forcing closures due to shortages. Rune is still focused; however, on other developments for Eurorack user’s in the meantime that do not require the chips required by Klang. I won’t disclose what he is working on; but, it will be a game changer for us enthusiasts.
I will say that if you visit any of the Eurorack & Synth Groups on Facebook and advertise a request as WTB, you may be able to buy one used from someone and I’d be prepared to pay a premium for the module if you are desperate. I recently picked one up third hand at around $105 above the new price in 2019.
I should say I'm trying to build a portable techno system myself right now, getting a lot of great advice from others here.
One particularly transformative bit of advice: the Metropolix is a beast of a pitch sequencer. If you're trying for two voices (maybe a lead and a bass line), the Metropolix is a solid answer. I'm buying one myself.
Another transformative bit of advice: an external drum machine works really really well. You have a lot of space with this case, but my guess is you'll find space runs short incredibly quickly. An external drum machine saves a tremendous amount of space, and a tremendous amount of money as well. Plus, you know, they're fun.
Are you sure you want to have a dual purpose of melodic techno as well as ambient with this build? It seems like one of the consistent pieces of advice I run across is to focus your build on one area; build it to do one thing really really well before trying to cover more bases. Noodling around with modular is plenty of fun, but if you want your build to actually make good music in some specific genre, build for that genre in mind.
-- CardiacTasty
I have one microbrute{external Drummachine], techno and some experimental music That is my ideia].
It was very helpful some tips from the ones have murcha more knowlege.
I should say I'm trying to build a portable techno system myself right now, getting a lot of great advice from others here.
One particularly transformative bit of advice: the Metropolix is a beast of a pitch sequencer. If you're trying for two voices (maybe a lead and a bass line), the Metropolix is a solid answer. I'm buying one myself.
Another transformative bit of advice: an external drum machine works really really well. You have a lot of space with this case, but my guess is you'll find space runs short incredibly quickly. An external drum machine saves a tremendous amount of space, and a tremendous amount of money as well. Plus, you know, they're fun.
Are you sure you want to have a dual purpose of melodic techno as well as ambient with this build? It seems like one of the consistent pieces of advice I run across is to focus your build on one area; build it to do one thing really really well before trying to cover more bases. Noodling around with modular is plenty of fun, but if you want your build to actually make good music in some specific genre, build for that genre in mind.
I'm pretty new myself, but I can already say any modulation source (lfo's, envelopes) almost needs attenuverters/vcas to tune how deep the modulation will go. This is particularly true for voices that have a wide range of responses across a single knob (Noise Engineering modules almost always have wild responses to tiny knob adjustments, for example).
For attenuverters specifically, I think the Steady State Fate's Quad-Atten looks great. I have ALM Busy Circuit's ALM010 - O/A/x2 and it works like a champ for so many things (pitch before a quantizer, normal variables).
Check out the Low Gain Electronics Short Bus for a good trigger sequence combiner. It's passive, cheap, and fun. You could probably use it to switch between and combine multiple channels of Metron, allowing you to avoid buying Grids. You could have a straight pattern set up on one channel of Metron and a fill pattern on another channel, and then switch back and forth or combine those trigger sequences with the flip of a switch. Switchblade would allow something similar as well.
On a related note, I just checked out a demo for Metropolix. Wow. Awesome.
Good point. Okay, I've updated the rack to the following:
I've added the Metropolix, it's definitely what I'm looking for. I also dropped the Javelin single VCA-envelope in preference for a full quad rack of envelopes and VCAs, so that I can gain some sustain for the Manis, the Ataraxic, and the uPlaits.
I'm also thinking that I'll augment the Metron with uGrids for the snare, hi-hat, and clap (via some logic OR modules, I'll be able to send gates from both Grids and Metron). That way I can generate entirely new drum patterns with the twists of a few knobs while still retaining much of the Metron's ability to control what's going on (particularly with the kick).
Wonderful. Now comes the painful part; the eons of waiting while I buy modules bit by bit.
if you are referring to my signature - effectively all of them - mixers of all sorts, vcas (especially cascading ones), switches, attenuverters etc etc - use for modulation and triggers as well as audio - doepfer almost always has a reasonably priced version of everything (but it looks like you know that already)
-- JimHowell1970
Can you give some ideias, the first ones o should buy first?
You already have one of the best trigger sequencers on the market (Metron). I would really recommend keeping that and adding the Metropolix or something similar to it. That would be a very powerful combination.
The more I research about the Metropolix, the more GAS I fall prey to. I'm growing convinced it's exactly what I'm looking for.
This leads to a central question: Do I keep the Metron? If not, should I transfer to an external drum machine? How do I sequence drum modules without Metron, maybe Grids? Do I keep the Metron but mostly not use it in preference over other rhythm generating sequencers? Could I somehow augment the Metron with other trigger generators?
Can I just say how fun this all is? I absolutely love a good optimization problem.
if you are referring to my signature - effectively all of them - mixers of all sorts, vcas (especially cascading ones), switches, attenuverters etc etc - use for modulation and triggers as well as audio - doepfer almost always has a reasonably priced version of everything (but it looks like you know that already)
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Thanks :) This was certainly a fun patch.... fairly sure the Moon Phase filter from Patching Panda might be my next DIY build to compliment the Chainsaw & ST Modular SVCA (though the latter is a weird VCA, quirky is probably the best description).
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Wow. This is beautiful. Gives me Yamaha CS80/Blade Runner vibes.
I'm now regretting selling my Chainsaw. Unfortunately, I never got around to using it as creatively as you. You're inspiring me to consider trying it out again.
Keep sharing!
