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Well personally for a complex sequencer, if I were you then I would go with an Eloquencer, Vector 512 or Erica Synths Black Sequencer over the Metron for what you are looking to achieve. I have the Metron and the other sequencers except for the Black Sequencer. The problem with Metron is that it is not great for sequencing pitch or cv even with the add on Voltera module. It’s great as a gate drum sequencer. You want the ability to create complex ratcheting and random evolving patterns which are tough to do on the Metron.

Thanks for all the tips jim! I do have a few things I would like to share tho.

1: I totally agree that metronome is complete overkill. It’s been a long battle between the tubbutec sixquencer and the metron and still no real winner. I like how compact the sixquencer is, but i want something more ergonomic like the metron. The algorithm by grayscale seems appealing, but i do like the idea of ≥16 steps in case i want to add a cool drum transition at the end. (After thinking about it, I’m just going to go with the algorithm.)

2: the mixer situation as been another long and arduous journey as well. I had the hexmix and hexpander in the blueprint a while ago, but that took up an assload of space and i just decided to scrap it, I’m thinking about diy’ing an 8 channel stereo mixer in the same form factor as the mutable instruments frames / blades, but I don’t understand breadboard schematic and have never been able to find a blueprint for a mixer online.

Thanks for all the help!

Excellent well I do also recommend download free software VCVRack and try building a similar rack. It will be great experience and helpful in your planning and learning process at no risk.

Whoops! Forgot to mention that I don’t and have never owned any modular synths before. This is future planning.

Jim's advice is spot on. Ditch the Bitbox , STMix module, and Metron sequencer. Get a massive mixer like WMD Performance Mixer or the Befaco Hexmix. I have the Befaco Hexmixer and love it.

EDITED Nov 8th 2021, 17:46

I hope it's an exercise in planning rather than you have all theses modules and you're stumped!

in addition to farkas' excellent questions - here are some thoughts:

sequencing/quantising: there is massive overkill even for using sinfonion - I recommend 4-5 sequencer channels - if you want to add more random then a single permutation/pachinko is sufficient - personally I would go for Marbles instead of either pachinko is a clone of marbles and less ergonomic - and marbles is like a triple turing machine - which permutations is derived from - one of the sequencer channels should be completely independent (ie run at a different speed/separately clockable) and programmable - this is for switching song parts in sinfonion

metron is a trigger sequencer - mostly used for programming drum patterns - I think this is completely superfluous - unless you are planning on using the bitbox for

I would try to think in terms of

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities + sequencing and final mixing

I would also when trying to emulate tangerine dream (or any other music based around multiple movements within the same piece of music) think in terms of layers of modulation - how to alter volume of parts over time?

sound sources: I see 3 modules - plaits, t-sl v2 and chainsaw - plus the bitbox (which I know nothing about) which I am assuming that you are intending to use for another 3 voices - you really want 8 v/oct inputs for voices - so this seems about right in terms of number - not what I would have picked but fair enough - that's personal taste - although I would probably want 2 or 3 of the same analog vco

vcas: definitely very light on the vca front - 4 vcas (yes I know that plaits has a built in lpg) I would want at least another couple of quad vcas in this case - they are needed for much more than note shaping - automated volume control over time and modulation for 2, which brings us to -

envelopes/modulation sources: there might be just enough envelopes, but then there will be a lack of controllable lfos - I would be tempted to add zadar and batumi and a matrix mixer to make modulation more interesting - mix modulation sources - possibly might need a couple - I might remove o&c

sound modifiers: plaits has a built in filter/lpg and chainsaw is stereo - the filters you have are mono so would work with individual outputs from the bitbox and the t-sl - I would probably dump all of them in order to get 1 or 2 more ergonomic mono filters and add a stereo filter for the chainsaw - I'd also want more in the way of general effects - a single mimeophon and beads are not really going to cut it for that many sound sources - I'd probably add at least a couple of fx aid xls, probably more

utilities: not really enough in this size - I've covered vcas and to some extent mixers (matrix mixers) above, but you will almostt definitely want more mixers - for panning and cross fading I would learn to patch these from vcas, lfos etc, but there is not a lot in the way of other basic utility functions - I would spend a decent amount of time researching all the different sorts of utilities and how they are used and an equal amount of time thinking about how these can be incorporated in your patching of this synthesizer (I'm talking weeks or months here not minutes or hours)

end of chain: how are you planning on listening to this? personally I think the eoc mixing solution you have here is woefully inadequate - I would look at the equivalent of a battleship eoc mixer - either the wmd performance mixer or something that is expandable such as the tesseract modular tex-mix (I have this one) which is extremely flexible as it is expandable 4 channels of mono or stereo at a time (and better yet more cost effective and lower power consumption than the wmd perf mixer)

I'd also want some effects on the send bus of the mixer - probably some reverb and I personally like the lofi setting on the fx aid as an eoc effect - so possibly another couple of fx aids and/or a very nice stereo reverb - the new strymon starlab looks and sounds very good for this role

if starting from scratch go very slowly - build a single voice chain (sound source, modulation source, sound modifier, some utiltities) and work from there maybe planning to add another module or 2 every few weeks or months towards something similar to this over a period of a couple of years - otherwise you will probably be overwhelmed

additional after looking at the bitbox further - if you are intending on using this as a sample player for 3 melodic voices + some percussion - I would probably want a more sampler with more channels - or multiples of this - I'm not going to recommend anything for that though as I know nothing about samplers in eurorack

EDITED Nov 8th 2021, 17:12

Do you already have all of these modules? What is it that you feel is missing? Are you having trouble getting the tones, sequences, or mixes that you want?

I’m trying to make a state azure/ tangerine dream style rack in the least possible space, but it feels like something is off. I don’t know what it is, but a gut feeling is telling me that something is hindering my progress, not helping it. Can someone at least try and help?

No, the 1010 Bluebox is a stand alone mixer recorder desktop solution and not a Eurorack module. It has connections for modular using standard patch cables. Here is more info

https://1010music.com/product/bluebox

It doesn’t do sampling or looping just mixer and record and playback.

Quick test with your suggestions:

there's a reason the mantis is popular - it's a bloody good case and reasonably priced!
I have one that I use mostly for video synthesis and it's great for this - if a little under-powered on the -ve rail for video (video uses a lot of -ve power) but the point here is that the psu is incredibly good - very quiet up to video rates (MHz) and not just the KHz needed for audio - I've been using mine daily for about 3.5years and have moved it around on on trains and planes a fair bit in the also reasonably priced cases - the newer one is significantly better than the old one! - to be honest I rarely notice the case as it's usually patched!!
another option might be a doepfer lc9 - again solid power - but might be a bit under-powered for 9u if using a lot of digital modules

re:maths - yes you could patch everything from other modules - but it's really convenient to have it all in one module - I'm keeping my maths - and I have all the functionality duplicated a few times in my rack - but it is significantly bigger than just the mantis!

Hi Lugia,

Thank you for the suggestions. I’m looking at a multi track recording solution which is one reason why I bought the 1010 Bluebox. I already have a few traditional analog mixers. I do need a new audio interface that with guitars and synths. Bluebox is ok for quick and dirty work and compact size is nice. I’m looking at the Tascam 12 channel mixer recorder that has preamps plus an audio interface as well.
-- sacguy71

Not trying to be pedantic or anything but when you say 1010 Bluebox...do you mean Bitbox? I was looking for Bluebox in the modules under 1010 music and didn't see a Bluebox so thought you might be referencing the BitBox.

Glad to see that I’m not alone with problems buying from Control in NYC. I like the folks at Patchwerks and Detroit Modular. Knowledgeable, friendly and fast shipping. I’ve also had fast service from Perfect Circuit and Analogue Haven Shawn has a lot of hard to find modules and is helpful with my questions.
-- sacguy71

Agree 100% on DM, PC, and AH...in fact, after Control admitted (4weeks later) that they screwed up my order of a Ts-L, I ordered one from Analogue Haven and it came three days later! Great experience with Analogue Haven as well as Detroit Modular and Perfect Circuit.

Great advices, thanks!

I'm recording either with eurorack to jack cables into my audio interface, or through HPO into a small tascam recorder.

For mults I have a 2hp buff that is not included and Tiptop stackables.

Regarding the case, I must admit that I looked on Etsy for some more unique options than the Mantis and I could not find anything except 6U 88hp. But I'll keep looking!

Indeed I was thinking about Maths, however combined with Kinks and Shades, I believe I can reproduce most of the functions I found in the illustrated supplement. And yeah, FX Aid XL is awesome and on my mind a lot! :)

I'd go bigger at least a 6u/104hp case - unless you are going to keep your existing case too

this way you'll have a bit of space left over for future expansion and don't find yourself in the same situation (swapping modules in and out) in a few months or so

how are you recording?

what are you using for mults?

there's a decent selection of utilities, but I'd probably want a matrix mixer (really useful for a number of things) - I'd probably also consider replacing the contour and function with maths (more than the sum of it's parts - see the 'maths illustrated supplement') and also consider adding an fx aid (xl) as it adds an amazing number of effects etc in a small and relatively inexpensive package

Yes normalize and process your samples in any way you see fit to get to sound them the way you like.

Got it working,but the volume is abit low.
would you recommend to normalise the samples when exporting from audacity?

Hello everybody,

I currently have a 84hp 3U rack and all the modules on here except René. I'm contemplating moving to a 6U 88hp case with this configuration because I'm getting a bit tired of swapping modules from my rack to my box :)

The idea behind this system is to explore combining sequences and modulation to generate evolving melodies. For me, eurorack and modular fun is mostly into finding interesting ways to generate melodies, that's why I focus more on sequencers that I intend to make interact with each other, and modulators such as Stages which can be used as a sequential switch, a shift register, sample & holds and other fun ways to blend sequences. And of course, uscale is integral in that idea. The recent acquisition of Beads and Hpo created the opportunity to use this setup on its own to enjoy the meditative aspect of patching and creating soundscapes while also being able to sync with Mutant Brain and record what I do.

This configuration is what I have currently in mind with the addition of René MkI and I'm wondering what advices or remarks you would have on the idea, and its realization, I'm open to any suggestion!

EDITED Nov 8th 2021, 09:50

Erica, also. They've long had a thing for overspecced power supplies...a habit I definitely endorse! And Trogotronic has a 10 AMP supply, especially given that they also make vacuum tube modules. Case From Lake is 100% up there as well...big Doepfer or Meanwells, sort of like how the Monorocket stuff was overspecced.

The ultimate, though...that's got to be ADDAC System's 197 hp monsters. You can get these with up to 20 AMPS on the +12 rail!

Not a bad choice, really...but make sure beforehand that the TASCAM can deal with some major messing around with its signal flow. If not, you're probably better off using one of those older analog mixers and then using that brand-new MOTU desktop interface. Just use your 1 and 2 channels for sends to the DAW, then you've got channels 3 and 4 for a stereo monitor return from it.

Hi Lugia,

Thank you for the suggestions. I’m looking at a multi track recording solution which is one reason why I bought the 1010 Bluebox. I already have a few traditional analog mixers. I do need a new audio interface that with guitars and synths. Bluebox is ok for quick and dirty work and compact size is nice. I’m looking at the Tascam 12 channel mixer recorder that has preamps plus an audio interface as well.

ARP was using 1v/8va scaling from square one, so I don't see pitch CVs being a problem here. The gate/triggers did like a heavier hit at somewhere around +10V, but again, I don't see that as being problematic. Plus, if Uli really followed the original docs, you're likely to have a trimpot that can lower that threshold, or you can add something like https://www.modulargrid.net/e/emw-voltage-source in there to impose a suitable offset voltage that'll work.

Eurorack: there's ALWAYS a fix in there, somewhere!

Glad to see that I’m not alone with problems buying from Control in NYC. I like the folks at Patchwerks and Detroit Modular. Knowledgeable, friendly and fast shipping. I’ve also had fast service from Perfect Circuit and Analogue Haven Shawn has a lot of hard to find modules and is helpful with my questions.

Well, lessee...do you need something more along the lines of a multitrack, or would a basic stereo pair off of the mixer via USB work? Or something sort of down the middle?

If I were facing this same problem, I would go with this as the mixer: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EPM12--soundcraft-epm12-mixer No, it doesn't have onboard FX...and you really don't want those, anyway, as they tend to be sort of "meh" when compared to outboard FX processors, and given how cheap THOSE are at present, you'd come out better populating several rack spaces with something like a Yamaha SPX90, etc. Those older FX from the 1980s have a certain "grit" to them that sounds pretty warm and satisfying.

Then for audio conversion, this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M4--motu-m4-4x4-usb-c-audio-interface 4-in, 4-out interface, has a monitor loopback function for easier tracking against other DAW tracks, and so on. And yes, four DC-coupled outs in case you get a wild hair to do some DAW-to-CV/gate/trig fun.

Hi all,

I am considering selling my Make Noise Shared System on MG, but since the marketplace is coupled to single modules only, how do I offer this system for sale here? Selinng the individual modules is not an option, I'm afraid. Suggestions are welcome!

Kind regards,

ds
-- deathspell

All you can do is list it and state that you aren't interested in parting it out...I would also list it on the Facebook group "The Mostly-Modular Synthesizer Garage Sale"...I've always had good luck buying on that group...just always use PayPal 3% to protect the buyer and seller IMO.

I quit buying from Control in NYC after they took forever to ship items and screwed me on a bad cable that they lied and said would replace. Plus when I spoke to them they had major attitude, and were rude to me on the phone. Screw them!
-- sacguy71

I would have to agree with you that they have a rude attitude...I even sensed it in the email replies that they sent to me when I was inquiring about my order that they screwed up. They did refund my money and happened to be the only place where I could find a Rackbrute 3U for a decent price...they did give me free shipping on that but I won't order from them anymore.

Its such a complete opposite customer service feeling I get when I deal with Patchwerks...those guys go above and beyond to make sure i'm happy with whatever I order from them...they are my go to now

EDITED Nov 8th 2021, 03:15

Hi Farkas,

Yeah... that's what I am thinking or rather hoping as well. But knowing the 2600, not being the purest Eurorack thingy in the world, I know it was never designed for that because at that time Eurorack didn't exist yet, still I wonder if there would be "any surprises" from those 2500 modules to be expected...

For example if the 2500 has the same issue as the 2600 with opening the VCA or filter fully because it expects a signal up till 15 V instead of Eurorack till 10 V... then we might have an issue. So I wonder if A) the 2500 has this issue as well and B) if Beh... I mean the brand we not supposed to speak of ;-) was clever enough to update those 2500 modules to a 100% Eurorack standard... mwah... not so sure... hence my questioning :-)

Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks Garfield

Well I did sample DPO and Wogglebug into Morphagene as an experiment and chopped it up then modulated it.
I like Tempi and it’s fun to tap tempo for each clocked channel. I’m still learning it tho. Hmm compared to Pam, hard to say. Pam does more and has menu screens to program clock stuff plus LFO and random modes. I like them both but if I had to pick one, I’d still go with Pam as my only clock module.

From my minimal research, they look to be fully Eurorack compatible. No odd conversion necessary.

Nobody? :-)

Lugia, do you know this perhaps?

Hi Sacguy71,

Great sound you got there at the beginning of the jam, are that samples or some real made electronic sounds? :-) I see you have the Make Noise - Tempi now as well, do you like it? If you compare it with the ALM - Pamela's New Workout (if I remember correctly you got that one too, right?), which one do you prefer now? Or is that too early to ask and do you need more time with the Tempi first?

Thanks a lot for sharing your Shared System with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Oh that's great to know! Thank you very much for your kind support. Let's see what and how the future brings us together regarding that book idea :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks Garfield,

Also since I am a published author for books, I'd be open to contributing in the future.

Fun jam based on my take of the classic Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon synth line from the song On the Run with some twists

EDITED Nov 8th 2021, 01:22

I quit buying from Control in NYC after they took forever to ship items and screwed me on a bad cable that they lied and said would replace. Plus when I spoke to them they had major attitude, and were rude to me on the phone. Screw them!

EDITED Nov 8th 2021, 00:58

I like Doepfer cases they do a good job on power needs.

Hi Sacguy71,

Thank you! :-) Interesting idea about writing a book, I keep that in mind for a possible (far) future idea/project. Let me create some more review reports first then I will chew on that idea :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

It's a great idea to use your brewery as an input "instrument" for your modular synth, great creative way of making music :-) I like that! Kind regards, Garfield.

Holy Batman, Garfield!

Such a magnus opus on modular reviews you have achieved with the reviews! I think you should publish a book on modular reviews and so forth. Your writing and research is quite excellent. Perhaps you could partner with Chris at LearningModular on this to share efforts? He did write the Patch & Tweak book on modular with Bjorn. I have the SEM filter as it came with my Doepfer A100 Basic system that got me started in Eurorack modular world two years ago. Love it. Makes me yearn for a Prophet 6 or OB6 keyboard hardware synth to make retro 80s new wave music.

Great discussion folks! I wanted a small portable mixer recorder that I can use with modular and other gear. So far having good results with the 1010 Bluebox. I do hope that they add new features like loop playback and the ability to rewind to points for each recording. Last night I recorded my Leipzig v2, DFAM and Make Noise Shared system. I’m thinking that it will let me use a lot of samples recorded from modular and less need to haul around tons of gear to live events in the future. Then I can bring a small modular for live performance and my Octatrack for drum and movie clip samples.

Intellijel Audio I/O > (patchbay >) DAW or Digitakt
works also in reverse
other hardware > Intellijel Audio I/O > modular mangling

-- happygolucky

A little simpler, less space, less expensive... 4ms Listen IO. (Tested and approved for 2 years and a half :))
Plus: Erica Synths Midi to Clock V2 (seems great), or Intellijel uMidi... There are so many solutions.

Thanks Garfield :)

Yeah, I put the Contact Mic on Pipes and Brewing vessels in the brewery and recorded the sounds while Pumps were running while brewing and cleaning.

Here's another bit but the Delay is used on the Resonester mode in Clouds, which makes some lovely piano-like keys with careful settings.

Yes, the Intellijel Audio I/O is a great audio interface module for audio input and audio output, however it's not meant for MIDI to CV or CV to MIDI.

I agree with Lugia and Sacguy71 that those MIDI modules from Doepfer (the A-190-x series) are pretty disappointing, the only modules so far from Doepfer that I don't like, all the other modules from Doepfer is great stuff, especially if you look at the price-performance ratio.

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Thanks a lot on the additional information you provide. I am going to experiment with those thoughts versus my Befaco - EvenVCO, good ideas!

Wow! The beginning of your new added jam here, wow, what a fantastic beginning and that sound, man, that sounds great, to die for!

Do I understand you correctly that your brewery provides the inputs of some sounds via the Contact Mic module into this jam? Sounds fantastic! That sound that you let kick in that sounds like a kind of wind or storm a bit after 08:00, yet another great goosebumps-moment ;-)

Beautiful jam this one, I wouldn't mind if you go more into the direction of this kind of experiments and kind regards, Garfield.

Good Sunday afternoon,

An update on the available review reports from my website (see below my signature for the link):

ACL: Multi II
ADDAC: 200b Buffered Multiples
Doepfer: A-106-5 SEM filter, A-110-1 VCO, A-124 Wasp filter, A-130-1 Linear VCA, A-131-1 Exp. VCA, A-140-1 ADSR, A-145-1 LFO and A-180-3 Dual Buffered Multiple
Erica Synths: Black 8 Mult, Pico Multi v1.2 and Pico Switch
Hikari Instruments: Quad Switch
Intellijel: Audio I/O
Make Noise: Multiple and STO
Waldorf: DVCA1
Xaoc Devices: Tallin and Warna II

Quick guide: Read chapter 2, that's all you need to know if you suffer from TL;DR symptoms ;-) Or read the entire report if you don't. For those who want more detailled information on the parameters and characteristics used in these review reports you can go to my website and at the top right click on "Other documents" then click on the latest Review_report_appendices_version link to download the Appendices, the Glossary and the Change Log that goes with the above mentioned review reports.

That's it for this year. I am going to take a small break from writing review reports for a few months and will continue next year, 2022, with adding hopefully another 10 more review reports. Kind regards, Garfield.

Intellijel Audio I/O > (patchbay >) DAW or Digitakt
works also in reverse
other hardware > Intellijel Audio I/O > modular mangling

Everything seems to be working fine with the boost adapter even though I'm still almost maxing out the -12V rail.
I guess the modules need the extra from the +12V rail during power up...
Thanks again and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all continues to keep working!
Now I'd like some fuss free time to really dig in and hear what I can do with my first modular set-up.

And another... this time with some Contact Mic recordings from in the Brewery which are messed with in Clouds.

Hi all,

I am considering selling my Make Noise Shared System on MG, but since the marketplace is coupled to single modules only, how do I offer this system for sale here? Selinng the individual modules is not an option, I'm afraid. Suggestions are welcome!

Kind regards,

ds