Hi folks,

I meant to get Mutable Grids a while back, didn't get it, and now it's discontinued.

Are there good current alternatives to Grids? What I'm looking for is a percussion-oriented trigger/sequencer that will spit out an interesting and changing musical line while I'm working on something else.

Use case: let's say I'm dong a pretty deep sound design effort on a pitched voice chain, but I'd like a bit of perc running in the background so I don't lose my ears or mind in the meantime. $s budget to this "Grids substitute" is under 500, HP budget for this is 26HP or less roughly. Hence a good chunk of $ and HP to this purpose, but not buck wild.

The idea of running a few channels of VPME Euclidean Circles 2 through a switch is also a possibility. Sadly my favorite basic switch (Acid Rain Switchblade) is now also discontinued unobtainium.

Appreciate your ideas for a good Grids alternative.

Thanks!

Nicholas


I made a drawing of the waveform transformation but I don't know to to upload the picture


OK, so I never tried this, but maybe can try it and confirm it:
What about having a Rectifier or half rectifier applied to and audio sample, and treat that as an Envelope? A slew can be applied to "round the lines" if necessary, or not.


I find as soon as I integrate any module within 3-4 rows of other modules then almost no module has any ergonomics.
Maybe if all you had was one long row of Mutable Instruments gear ;-)

If all manufacturers did the following and users planned their modular this way:

Users only ever to have VCO's at Top, Filter / VCA below / mixing & effects below.
...then...
Manufacturers have VCO output at the bottom of the modules, filter and VCA inputs at top with outputs at bottom, then effects and mixing all having inputs and outputs at top.

Any module less than 3hp would be Banned and only Blank Gap-fillers allowed.

Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.

https://youtube.com/@wishbonebrewery


https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1871528.jpg

9U

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1871559.jpg

12U

-- jdesole

please post links not jpgs

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities



Thanks for the honesty and clarification on some things. Again, I am a novice and am still learning.
Both of these posts mentioned the fact the harmonaig isn't as I thought it was, I think the Hermod would be a better solution for what I'm trying to do, would you agree?
I forgot to add Brains to this setup. I think I confused the functionality of Rene to Pressure Points. Would Hermod/Rene be a good combo ? Or Hermod / Pressure points? Or are they both bad ideas ?
I have the bit box for drum samples, also any sort of audio samples I want to send into my patch. I understand the hp but I value the interface. I only want an analog Kick for a counterpoint throughout patches I make. I have songs like Broken Hearted Kota by Joseph Shabason and Everything in its Right Place in mind. That steady kick, or whatever rhythm I choose. Odd choice, I understand. Considering this is a hypothetical setup, and I'm not getting all of the modules at once by any means, I don't think it'd hurt for me to add a snare and hi-hat module just in case I would want to use them. But I can trigger a sample in bitbox the same way as those drum modules, I just don't have control over the timbre as much.
I agree Scion is nice to have down the road; I didn't plan to get it towards the start of my rack. I'm willing to sacrifice the rack space. I'm going to post a revised version of this setup and start by adding an extra row and see where that takes me.
Idk why I said "Lots of VCA's", I can see clearly there is "some" as you said. Bad choice of words. I'll look into some mixing solutions, and for VCA's, starting with Veils seems necessary.
I had a feeling the filters were overkill. Optomix and X-pan are out of the rack, and Sisters may be as well but it sounds so good in the demos I've heard. Not as good as Seju though imo.
I'll look into adding more modulation, starting with MATHS.
My idea was to use my pedalboard for effects. I'm not a guitarist but I have a Korg Prologue, Monologue, Subharmonicon, Reface CP, and YC that I run into it when recording tracks. I'm looking to move away from keyboard-based synths and into modular synthesis. I started with the Subharmonicon. That being said, I'm not a guitarist, more of a pianist but by no means classically trained, more so musically educated. Hence why modular synthesis feels so right to me, the analog signal flow, different modules with different duties and capabilities, it makes sense to me but I have much, much more to learn.
I'll look into some effects modules, but I don't want to have a lot. I have the Empress Reverb and Zoia that I look forward to using with my future rack. I have other pedals but I'm trying to sell them right now.

"and a better end of chain mixer - you probably don't need an 'output' module...", I've really been curious about this. So I realize that in the scenario you have a pedal with stereo outs and you wanted to send that stereo signal to an amp, ideally you'd need two amps for the left and right signal. In the case of Modular and having multiple voices, there's no way I could have 3 voice modules: 2 stereos(C&P, Plaits), and Troika. With that thought process, I'd need 5 amps (or 7 if I ran the Troika out separately). So it seems evident that they're going to need to be mixed in a mixer module with a stereo out (Output Module). What would I do if you're saying I don't need an output module? I suppose I could take each stereo out into my audio interface but then am I losing sound quality?

"see my signature!!! the formula is how to get the most versatility from a modular for the least money... it works and is scalable to any size modular... I'd want another row to add a couple more effects modules, another modulation source or 2 and some more utilities - at least more mixing (including some sub-mixers and a matrix mixer), sequential switching, offsets, attenuators, slew limiters, logic etc etc" - Thank you for this.

Thank you for replying I really appreciate it.


It's one of my modular bug bears… too many modules that are built for manual control e..g mixers, have the jacks at the bottom


The idea behind this rack is to be able to create ambient soundscapes, structured songs, and to have enough voices to have multiple tracks within a patch.

trying to do too much in too small a space - very synthesis with modules, as opposed to modular synthesis

Harmonaig gives musical sequencing to any of the 6 voices (C&P, Troika, and Plaits) that I would have. Pressure points allow me to melodically sequence as well as have touch control.

iirc:
harmonaig is not a sequencer, it's a quantizer - you need to feed it sequences to get it to work
pressure points needs brains to get it to actually sequence - and probably some sort of clock module

Crater is a kick drum that sounds sick and I wanted a kick drum module.

but what about a snare and hats???

Scion takes biometric feedback from organic matter and converts it to CV. F***ing awesome.

yeah - nice to have somewhere down the road, maybe, but I think the space is better suited to other modules in a small cases such as this

Bitbox allows me to load samples into my patch.

it's a very big solution for this in such a small rack!!!!

Lots of VCA's, Doepfer A-135-2, Optomix, and x-pan. As well as Attenuators inside modules.

let's rephrase that as 'some vcas' - enough for the audio perhaps - but what about the modulation??? and very little in the way of mixing for either sound or modulation sources... there's not really enough mixing capability for the audio!

Filters, Seju, Chloe MK2, Quarte and Sisters, Too Many?

probably - plaits already has a filter/vca - ie an lpg and you also have optomix - so there's another 3 filters!!!

Chaos provides modulation. OCHD gives 8 random LFOS for modulation.

not enough modulation sources compared to sound generators, imo

Tanh is a limiter and feedback module that I can send Troika into.

Chloe MK2 and Athra MK2 sound absolutely gorgeous. They're tube-driven delay modules, it's hard for me to explain with my newbie brain but they sound beautiful. They act as a sort of effect in this setup.

but what about other effects - reverb, phasing etc - or arre you just going to use

Rosie lets me send the audio out of my rack, also allows me to connect to my pedalboard and send the effects back (I think).

discontinued for quite a while - and will not do the pedalboard thing well - get a separate module (or modules) for this (2 or 3 or 4 aisynthesis pedal integration modules for instance)

if you have a pedal board - are you are guitarist?? - maybe an instrument interface is also a good idea - the sonicsmith ev1 looks to be the best at the moment, but is pricey - as a starter maybe veils and a disting mk4 would be a good idea - veils for more vcas and enough gain for guitar to modular level & disting as it has an envelope/pitch follower - you'll probably also want some logic to extract gates from this

and a better end of chain mixer - you probably don't need an 'output' module...

Hopefully, this makes sense!

maybe to you - but you're ignoring the interesting modules that actually make modular synthesis worthwhile compared to fixed architecture synths - utilities!

see my signature!!! the formula is how to get the most versatility from a modular for the least money... it works and is scalable to any size modular...

I'd want another row to add a couple more effects modules, another modulation source or 2 and some more utilities - at least more mixing (including some sub-mixers and a matrix mixer), sequential switching, offsets, attenuators, slew limiters, logic etc etc

If you are set on all or most of the modules in this case I would seriously suggest a much bigger case - at least 1 more row, preferably 2 - so that you have the space available for all the support modules that you will need to add variety and for some space to expand into after that!

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Hey @jdesole,

My first impression is that you're trying to fit too much into a rack this size. Personally I would only go for one or two (maybe three, depending on the setup) voices in a case this size. I would cut the number of sound sources and filters in half, at least.

I think you may be misunderstanding Harmonaig's capabilities. From my understanding it is primarily a chord quantizer, not a sequencer. Also, Pressure Points only steps through sequences on it's own with the Brains expander module.

You will probably want to look into alternate VCA modules in place of Optomix and X-Pan, as they are not "traditional" VCAs. Optomix is a low pass gate, so it will alter what you're sending through it in ways other than amplitude (which you may or may not want). I find X-Pan inconvenient to use a lot of the time due to all three channels being routed to a single output. And the first two channels are crossfaders (but can still be used in a VCA-like way). You should look into Intellijel's Quad VCA or Veils (2020) for more traditional and denser "VCA" functionality, in addition to your Doepfer VCA module.

I think you should strongly consider adding some mixers and envelopes to the rack.

Those are just some major starting points, but I hope some of that helps!
-Chace


Befaco's Percal is insane for this... and it has choke groups


A Quad VCA mixer from AI Synthesis. Can be used as a simple mixer, or do interesting things with response tuning and blending sounds.
LOTS of surface mount soldering, NOT for beginners, please hone your surface mount techniques before you buy this. Only buy this if you’re comfortable with a full board of SMD components.
Good unit, lots of interesting things to do with it.
C.K. builds a Quad Mixer from AI Synthesis


Hey Garfield,

The Octasource looks great. I was also having an eye on the whole Joranalogue line of modules that seem to be some of the most powerful LFOs out there. As my heart is still pounding for chopped jungle/breakbeats the next module might be an Erica Synths Sample Drum (also more snare variations, yeah!). So you're surprisingly close with the Erica Modules.

Thank you for listening


@t4mber I'm not talking about me, luckily I'm still free!


Something new that’s popped up recently is the Landscape.fm Noon. It’s a passive filter topology that can produce very complex and delicate sounds. Passive filters are capable of a broader response **for varied inputs than active filters IMO. I wonder if this is because they are less prone to resonate, dunno. Interestingly the only passive filter in eurorack is the aging Trouby Organ Filter that was built to transform organ voices into woodwinds. Rossum Morpheus has these types of filter profiles but I hear it distort when used for percussion duties (as an effect or pinged), which can be 🤗 or 😶


I have an extra long monitor arm that’s great for draping right angle cables. As seen on IG

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZp0wynv9mq


@Rabel what way are you trapped and not able to accomplish X eg nurave sinecore?


The idea behind this rack is to be able to create ambient soundscapes, structured songs, and to have enough voices to have multiple tracks within a patch.
Harmonaig gives musical sequencing to any of the 6 voices (C&P, Troika, and Plaits) that I would have. Pressure points allow me to melodically sequence as well as have touch control.
Bitbox allows me to load samples into my patch.
Crater is a kick drum that sounds sick and I wanted a kick drum module.
Scion takes biometric feedback from organic matter and converts it to CV. F***ing awesome.
Troika, Castor & Pollux, and Plaits are beautiful voices in my opinion.
Lots of VCA's, Doepfer A-135-2, Optomix, and x-pan. As well as Attenuators inside modules.
Filters, Seju, Chloe MK2, Quarte and Sisters, Too Many?
Chaos provides modulation. OCHD gives 8 random LFOS for modulation.
Tanh is a limiter and feedback module that I can send Troika into.
Chloe MK2 and Athra MK2 sound absolutely gorgeous. They're tube-driven delay modules, it's hard for me to explain with my newbie brain but they sound beautiful. They act as a sort of effect in this setup.
Rosie lets me send the audio out of my rack, also allows me to connect to my pedalboard and send the effects back (I think).

Hopefully, this makes sense!


this user has left ModularGrid

I use cardboard boxes for cable storage yeah its cheesy but dead cheap or mike stands. Otherwise I have to drill holes in my walls to hang cable trays.


this user has left ModularGrid

So far I am on a no gear 2022 mission to refocus on my setups and having fun.


I've been learning about eurorack modules and modular synthesis for the better part of a year now, if you were to see my ModularGrid page you'd see a bunch of different rack ideas. This is the one I've become most confident with. I recognize some modules may be hard to get or are maybe out of the typical price range; but after researching Instruo and Bizarre Jezabel and hearing examples of patches made with their modules, it seems like a must to have them a part of my system. Especially pairings such as the Winterbloom Castor and Pollux into the Bizarre Jezabel Seju Stereo Filter. Any comments you may have, I'd be happy to hear them. I'm a novice and am slowly looking to dive into Eurorack.

ModularGrid Rack


These are handy for getting a few cables out the way: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08FQW4JDJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


Just bought a Local Florist - Pittsburgh Modular from @Blackblacky pleasant communication, everything went smooth, the module arrived well packed, exactly as described.
Thanks!


Well it is useful to know but it does not help those who are already in it (I guess many people) !! This happens in all fields (hobbies, professions), I give an example: I don't have great photographic bases and I buy a 5000 € nikon, my photos will not be more beautiful anyway! Perhaps a video channel is missing where ideas and examples help those who are trapped between blips, blobs and drones ....


How can the jacks be on the bottom on this?!?!
-- LunaticSound

Have to concur. Great concept, bad panel orientation.


Big bull clips to hold a bunch of similar length cables. Can usually get about ten in each clip. I throw all the clips in a drawer, but you could hang them from a hook or a nail.


Very nice! I never heard of the Krell patch before but it's definitely one I'm going to investigate. It sounds absolutely brilliant and your choice of sounds could not have been nicer (like the Plaits formants, I'm going to try this mode on my Plaits too).

Modular playlist on SoundCloud


As usual, it’s a great atmosphere! Thanks for sharing. Cheers!
-- TumeniKnobs
Thank you for your comment :)


Hi Figo. It looks like the version pictured above is the original faceplate as submitted by Intellijel a few years ago. The version currently pictured on their website is like the one you described, so I would guess that you have the newer updated cosmetics.
Hope that helps.


Hey guys i got a question. I just got a new one from MusicStore in Germany and the Panel looks different (for example; the MultSwitch is silver and there is no circle around the cutoff), dose that mean it's a newer version or older? im confused.
greetings Figo


As usual, it’s a great atmosphere! Thanks for sharing. Cheers!


Hi Garfield, thanks for the info.

I have indeed seen some of the videos featuring the DCO, the VCF/VCA and the have a very interesting Dual LFO too now (https://sound-force.nl/?page_id=4428), which I'm hesitating on buying to replace my Doepfer Quad LFO module - I think it's also in kit form.

As for the Dual Filter, DivKid does a long review, which is great. However, what I was interested to discover is some hands on testimonies from those who spend their hard earned cash on the module, to find out what other people think.

Thanks anyway.


Hi Joesh,

I was at the Superbooth 2021 at the Soundforce booth and I heard a demo of the DCO (2021 version, four of them actually) in combination with the VCF/VCA 6 module (thus not the dual filter you are referring to), and that seriously sounded fantastic. I think on the Internet/YouTube you can find one or two videos about it and/or on Soundforce's website.

Sorry that I don't have any demo I can let you listen at. I consider two DCOs and that VCF/VCA 6 module, that's serious stuff indeed :-) If I ever get to that I might upload a demo of that here in the You section but I think that would take quite some time since I have planned first quite a few other things to buy before getting at this Soundforce stuff.

Kind regards, Garfield.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


Hi Zuggamasta,

Great to hear from you again and you got there some beautiful videos! I love the first video, fascinating that is! The third video is funny and fits quite well with the music. The music of the second video I like myself most, nicely done :-)

Did you ever consider the Erica Synths - Black Octasource? Great modulator module! It's a crazy LFO with up till 8 outputs that are phase shifted. You can do some serious crazy things with it. I think it might suite your music style and I mean that as a compliment :-)

Thanks a lot for sharing your great work with us, I hope you keep up the good work and have tons of fun with it, kind regards, Garfield.

For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads


Loki is the man for sure. I didnt know about that patch to "fix" the issue, interesting


I hadn't really looked at the Quadrax deeply before, but wow! it seems pretty handy. My wallet appreciates that they're not available at the moment!

Thanks for the advice!


Ordered oldest to newest so it will be easier to fill in the future.

Quite fast techno, I posted this before but it's still fun. First time trying out really long 3D sequences in a while:

I really love this kind of patch and had to build an animation for it:

The last one is an absolute favorite in a long time. Here the animation came first, it's a kind of modular patch in the 3D software blender. I created some basic character shapes an a node based system to randomly mix them together. I hope that it shows just a tiny bit that the synth patch is loosely based on how I remember Ryōji Ikeda tracks.

As I am not showing any video of the synth creating the tracks I also link the current rack layout.
ModularGrid Rack

Any Ideas what could be fun to try out next, my dear modular gridders?


Cool thread. Funny enough I'm currently working on #1 "preset management" for generative systems. Since Droid supports MIDI over TRS, I can pipe "settings" to a Tram8 that sends 8 0-5v CVs into my 7u; with Droid's P10 I can have a 1:1 mapping of knobs to those 8 CVs. Once I'm done with the base patch, I can use Droid's "patch" scenes to switch between presets with button press. Haha wish me luck


Thanks for posting this. It took me down a rabbit hole. I saw KFW perform ~generators in SF in 2011 or so... and it blew my mind. Funny, it took me another eight years to get into physical modular synths. And I'm only realizing now how impactful that performance was on me; he's improvising lines, like a jazz solo played on a clock divider or driving an entire system from simple gestures. What's amazing to see is his comfort around chaos and how well he navigates to disparate plateaus of sound, one after another.

KFW makes it clear in this video[1] that he's using a combination of a few modules based around a concept or abstraction (e.g. chaos/feedback in clocking via OP's link). It's so refreshing, and this approach appeals to me because you get to hear the boundaries of the sonic character of his voice(s).

I think if you build a system around his approach, you'd be well served by complex voices like those from Industrial Music Electronics (he mentioned Zorlon's Cannon), Schlappi Engineering, many others. Importantly, would be to pick a "shape" (e.g. clock feedback) that integrates chaos/feedback and develop gestures. I've been working with XAOC Drezno for sometime and use it to transform simple CV into arabesque pitch and gate information that drive an entire generative system.

Something that's brilliant about KFW's work is how he utilizes control that feeds-back with audio. It's something that I've been working with recently and can be rewarding but challenging to contextualize. I think this approach may lend itself better for compositions that use on a single line/single voice.

Curious to see what you come up with. Please post a system, as it happens.

[1] Resonant


I keep seeing the Soundforce Dual Filter (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/soundforce-dual-filter) in various racks and videos and would love to hear from people using it. I keep hesitating about buying one, after all price wise it looks amazing. So, any thoughts about this dual filter would be really useful - in helping make a decision one way or the other.

Thanks in advance.


alt text

Idea here is to kind of make a box that you could make a whole track with, combining sampling / drums of the squid and some west coast Buchla stuff on top. Kind of Floating Pointsy I guess?

I already have a System Coupe, so you see a lot of that stuff here. I love filters so theres a lot of filters.

Thing I'm wondering about is if I need more VCA for the Buchla stuff?

Also would LOVE to hear of anyone that has a better replacement for a Beatstep Pro that lives within a rack. I have one but its ugly and I don't love it. The Cirdadian's in there kind of as a representation of that but its not giving me much on the melody part of course.

Also just any thoughts or feels. I'm kind of between going all in on modular here or buying Ableton and trading in the System Coupe for a Super Six... but maybe thats a whole other conversation haha.


Thank you for info, I'm newbie here.

Best


Duplicate already found here:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/mutable-instruments-yarns

note that trade offers go to the marketplace, not to module entries.


Thread: WMD 4tten

Just to add to the above, this doesn't fit the Tiptop Mantis case. Neither the upper nor lower half.


I’m sure a few of you ‘Gen Heads’ have been following this series. Certainly worthy of a link to this thread:


I used to have a long narrow wooden planter box - that you’d find in a garden store, so you can lay out the longer cables nicely. But now that I’ve moved house and have a tighter space, I use a metal square plate thing with loads of grooves on each side, from the Ctrl-mod.com - it fits on top of a mic stand.

For cables I do very bright colors by length. Love the tiptop stacksbles but also dig the really short ones too (so satisfying when your module layout plan comes together, but only sometimes).


Would a Voltage Block be good for this, Nick? The range of each slider/step is 0-5v and you can set it to jump or glide between them. With attenuverters & offsets between the Block and your complex oscillator I’d imagine you’d have tight control - not to mention putting it through the SISM. You’ll be in the lab for weeks!


Thread: Wavefolder?

so a complex oscillator... then see advice above..

the instruo cs-l is a complex oscillator which also includes a wavefolder - having checked the manual - it seems that the wavefolder cannot process external signals - so if this is what you want - ie a wavefolder to process signals other than those generated by the c-sl, then yes, you would also require a separate wavefolder - I suspect this is common with most complex oscillators that include wavefolders

a 'bifold' is a specific wavefolder module made by intellijel and as such is not included in the instruo c-sl

"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia

Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities


Thread: Wavefolder?

I mean a complex like Csl ... it is also a bifold..


Thank you everyone for your kind comments! I did not know that I need to get a booster to bring up 2000mA. I am ordering one right now!

And I agree about Hector - it acts out time to time (randomly triggering certain functions). Amazing support though. I had an issue with touch screen initially, but it got fixed shortly (Loki emailed me personally with the new firmware).

I now really understands when people say that Eurorack drains money very quickly...

Nice meeting you all!