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I also found the PanMix from Happy Nerding, maybe that is another option, that is 6 channels mixing, seems to suit the situation better.
(and my wish list is growing again, but I can delete some from the list maybe with this one).

EDITED Apr 4th 2021, 15:45

When you're playing with it now what do you find is missing? That'll help us know where to nudge.

Soundstage or a Jumble Henge or a Nearness plus some attenuators could do a lot of work for you. I have the first and the last and they're both really nice modules.

Quick question: what are you sequencing/playing with here?

DOT for Euclidean, LL8 for more of a fixed structure, I may end up using the Burst for more Twinkly synth bits rather than percussion.
Yeah I watched that Mylar YT, Percall does look lots of fun.
Rosie looks nice for a bit of end of line Reverb to tie things together.
MixZ sounds interesting, though would obviously couple best with load of other Tiptop modules.

I know the following is not about panning each percussion module, only the last option is about this I think (hexmix).
But you could use the stereo mixers to the Rosie Return stereo set.
Problem is that there are not many input channels in most mixers.
BTW dot / ll8 and Burst seems like nice combinations.

Already thought about the Befaco - Percall (on my wish list)?

MylarMelodies has a 'suggested systems' techno machine item on YT.
There he is using the Befaco Percall partly as mixer.
I am also changing very slowly evolving to a percussion rack, but my budget has been slashed this year (because I am in between jobs now).
My 'optimal' stereo set would be 4 Percalls to a Doepfer A138S stereo mixer, but that is very expensive.

(Title: How to make a TINY live techno modular synth in only 62HP.)

Another option (see my "end game" rack) :

Rosie + pico DSP
combined with 1 or more of the following:
Axys (on my wish list)
X-Pan (on my wish list)
A-138S
I have a A-138N for each (Rosie) channel.
and a A-138S between the Pico DSP and the Rosie (stereo return input).
But I do not know if this would be possible with the hex modules.

another option :
MixZ tiptop (combined with TipTop drum modules) (on my wish list)
There it is possible to bus audio, instead of the need for cables.

Or going to 'real mixers' like HexMix / Hexpander / Hex VCA combinations. (also on my wish list)
like you said yourself.

EDITED Apr 4th 2021, 14:21

Bit by bit I am edging towards having a row specifically for percussion and I'm interested in what other people have for Mixing and Panning etc.
I'm currently a little bit short of Mixing capability having sold the Intellijel Mixup I had and I'm considering the next step in mixing.
At the moment I have:
Most of the percussion sources going via a WMD/SSF Quad Atten then into a Omsonic UPE (Universal Panning Expander) so I can tweak levels and Pan, I do like a bit of Reverb on Hatz so mostly send its outs separate to the UPE.

I fancy eventually upgrading the Mixing to a Befaco Hexmix with the STMix feeding it, though it would seem a waste to use up all the Hexmix channels with panning mono percussion sounds around so alongside the UPE I may get a Doepfer A-138s Mini Stereo Mixer.

But how would YOU do it??

Tips on this idea ?

I really like the Chromatic series, I have purchased some already.
Thinking about making a stand alone set from mainly chromatic modules.
But I have some uncertainties regarding this composition.

1) I have a feeling I can not put the Percal to its full potential .
2) there are 2 modules I am not sure enough to have 2 copies: Ataxia and Euphoria

Do you have any thoughts on that ?

EDITED Apr 4th 2021, 12:33

thanks!

I did a quick jam with base case and new mixer.

Once my new monster case arrives, I will add rest of modules in one place to have complex patches create cool tunes.
I plan to put my Doepfer 6u modules in the monster case on the way once it arrives and then use base case for mixers and sequencers. I also put my 14 U MDLR case in the same area so lets me create some fun patches in one spot.

Hi Gabe

you could try copying the rack Lugia made and then making a bare bones version that you think might work and post it back to check it will at least make sounds - possibly start with only 1 voice maybe a slightly less expensive case...

mantis case

a sound source (dust of time), 1 modulation source (Maths), 1 sound modifier (beads), a way to play (I'd go for marbles over permutation and expander), and a way to listen (the 4ms thing)

add in a bunch of almost essential utilities - not necessarily these modules, but covering the same functionality - links, kinks, shades, veils (I'd get a real one though not the clones)

play with that for a while and then think about how you want to move forwards - do you want to move towards a more complex voice, or a second voice

if by 3rd row you mean the bottom one - it is mostly modulation sources and utilities - modulation sources are needed so that you don't need to constantly tweak the knobs yourself like a deranged crackhead - you can patch these modules to do this for you - utilities increase the ways of patching so instead of patching modulation source to modulation input you patch via utilitiy modules which enable you to multiply, modify and merge them into more interesting waveforms - for example as an envelope closes an lfo is mixed into the signal to produce tremolo this is fed to the cv in of a vca and the effect is applied to the audio being sent through the vca

Thanks GarfieldM for your comment. I checked both and plugged it on another busboard, but it still doesn't work properly… :•(

Depends on your needs and budget. I started with a Korg SQ-1 sequencer with my first modular setup then progressed to in rack sequencers. Korg is ok but I much prefer my Eurorack sequencers like Eloquencer, Metron and Stillson Hammer now. I just ordered a new Doepfer 12U Monster case to stack on my Doepfer monster base case and reorganize my modular setup now that I have larger studio space. I probably will wait to end of year to order new mixers, sequencer and few more drum/voice modules plus more utilities like attenuator/attenueverts and so forth. One thing that I learned was to order the BIGGEST case and power you can afford as a beginner as you will quickly grow. I still have my 6u cases to throw a few modules in for jams in town once Covid ends and portable 14U MDLR case but that case is HEAVY and needs a tray to cart around.

Hello everyone! my system above all for ambient experimental drone and industrial music is expanding and I would like some advice for the final upgrade! I don't know if an ornament crime, an envelope adsr, still modulations..(stages) a vca? happy for some advice!

EDITED Apr 3rd 2021, 17:36

Hi , this is Fabio from Italy.
I. am experiencing an issue with VCA A 135-2 but , as I’m new to modular world , I don’t know if is an issue or is normal….
If I have an oscillator with an high frequency , while in channel1 , 2 and 3 everything is ok and the “gate” is closed properly , on channel 4 I can hear the “original” wave in background….not so much….but I can hear it….
same oscillator , same cables , same VCA settings ,in channel 4 I can hear more.
That doesn’t happens if I go out from individual output on channel 4.
If the note is not high pitch , then there’s basicly no difference between channels….
Is this becouse of summing channels , so 1 go in 2 , 2 in 3 ecc , so 4 is more noisy? I can see that the noise raises even if I raise volume from other channels , even if nothing il plugged in....
All jumpers are in factory settings , I checked the schematics , so it should work 1 on 1 , 2 on 2 ecc
Has the unit some problems? ( I’m still in time to give it back….)
I can deal with it , (maybe I’m still not into “modular tollerance… :-) ) but i want to veryfy if the unit is ok…
I post a video , is in Italian but the Issue is clear.

Hi Garfield

I see why you were shocked then!

Jim

Wow, thanks so much for getting back about this so quickly and in such depth!
tbh this is a lot to take in... I'm trying to get a grip on row 3 but it's a bit hard to clearly see what's doing what since I lack the experience to really be able to tell what these modules will do in practice. (I'm digging through them right now, just to figure out what they do ... bear with me ...)
Because atm I really have to limit my spending to 3k but also because it might be better to start off smaller and see what I will actually use in practice, is there a way to boil this down into a 'light' version that costs around 3k...? what would be the essential modules?
thanks again!

EDITED Apr 3rd 2021, 00:08

Hi Jim,

The only one 8 Multi I have, I bought that one for Euro 42.35 (including VAT) and guess from whom?

From Erica Synths' their website-shop. If I knew at that time that it was such a good offer and that they were going to be sold out and that it is such a good multiple, I would straight away have bought some more...

Dealers had the opportunity to buy at a reduced price this and other modules from Erica Synths as well, hence my reaction that the price is far too high. Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Baltergeist,

Nice experimental jam! :-) There are lots of fun sounds to be discovered here!

Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

The fix for DC crud: linear power supplies. Now, with the Intellijel cabs, you've got to deal with the internal switching supply, and there's not a lot you can do there. BUT...you might consider replacing the Meanwell "brick", which is ALSO a switching supply. Reason is, if you've already got crud coming into the cab from that brick, this can then screw majorly with the noise factor of the Intellijel TPS unit in the case.

With my AE system, I use a Tektronix PS281, but this is probably a bit underpowered for the Intellijel's needs. Instead, the next model up (the PS282, as shown here: g~gAAOSwTOxfoFD0" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-PS282-DC-Power-Supply-5A-18V-TW10205/402528809979?epid=1117948359&hash=item5db89633fbg~gAAOSwTOxfoFD0 ) can deliver up to 18VDC at 5A. And if you need more current, you can parallel two of these easily, as they have tracking link connections that lets one supply control the second. Price on the one listed is a bit steep (you should be able to find these under $200), but they provide dead-quiet DC on output...very little junk on that DC feed to cause the TPS to get noisier.

Much love to all the talented artists who were a part of this. I got to speak with a lot of super cool people putting this together.
Thanks and enjoy!

https://communitymodularelectronic.bandcamp.com/album/acid-exploration-2-a-compilation-cme-025

@Lugia 321 is a good idea. I'm having difficulty finding any Happy Nerding OUTs...
-- merzky_shoom

Try Analogue Haven. Their site currently lists this as "in stock". https://www.analoguehaven.com/happynerding/out/

@Lugia 321 is a good idea. I'm having difficulty finding any Happy Nerding OUTs, any other alternatives with 2 stereo ins you might recommend? I do like the idea of having 1/4" outputs rather than needing to convert with a 1/8" splitter or 2 1/8" to 1/4" cables.

Wow that Ground Control looks pretty freakin amazing. It's not cheap though. You could get two SQ-64s for that price and still have $100 left over. After a week of getting familiar with the Rene, I am actually thinking to keep my pre-order for the SQ-64. I believe there is probably not a lot of overlap. The Rene is an amazing instrument, and I have had so much fun just messing with it's up front features, but it's definitely not a traditional sequencer and I have a need for one.

got the batumi and love it,havent looked into firmware,how do you apply it to the batumi?

Batumi has a USB port. Download the zip file and follow the instructions in the readme file.

-- defragmenteur

thanks,might beworth trying out

Release is in 6 hours. Taking submissions all the way up until the end.

I used my Morphagene for the first time in ages on this one, ran a PO12 into it, and everything is loosely synced to it. Otherwise, the usual suspects are at play - Plumbutter, double Double Knots, Tetrax into Cocoquantus, and Mother-32.

The shop in Greece indeed still sells them but at what price...? Wow!

Hi Garfield - I just checked the synthesizer.gr link and they seem 'reasonable', how much were they before?

EDITED Apr 2nd 2021, 10:16

if you want to find the least noisy power supplies then look towards modular video synthesis - virtually all lzx modules up til this point are very susceptible to noise and up to much higher frequencies (MHz instead of KHz) - you can literaly see the noise on the video output - small blocks appear that shouldn't be there for example

the PSUs that are generally recommended for video are the Doepfer PSU3 and the TipTop studio bus - and Malekko used to do one, but have discoontinued it I think

of the power supplies I have:

The PSU in the Mantis is very similar to the studio bus and works perfectly well for video

The Befaco Excalibus also appears to do a great job

Frequency Central PSUs introduce noise - for me - horrible - but are perfectly fine for audio

Haven't tried the meanwell in my Bastl Marton case for video - may give it a quick go next time I re-arrange things - which could be within the next couple of months

From all accounts the Intellijel ones are not suitable for video

Regarding outputs - I live in europe so don't bother with one - the only reason I would get one is if I needed balanced ouputs - which I don't - and I use an es8 as an audio interface anyway - current output patch is master out of tex-mix into streams for compression into 2 multiples - each one patched to es8 (usb to iphone), a unity mixer (to create a mono mix for sensory translator) and attenuators to go to speakers (so I can reduce the volume without impacting the audio reactivity)

got the batumi and love it,havent looked into firmware,how do you apply it to the batumi?

Batumi has a USB port. Download the zip file and follow the instructions in the readme file.

also thought about looking into modules for adding "randomness"again preferrable smaller modules,without getting to cluttered,but in this regard im abit in the dark
-- Broken-Form

Batumi has an alternate expert firmware that add a bank of random waveforms.

-- defragmenteur

got the batumi and love it,havent looked into firmware,how do you apply it to the batumi?

also thought about looking into modules for adding "randomness"again preferrable smaller modules,without getting to cluttered,but in this regard im abit in the dark
-- Broken-Form

Batumi has an alternate expert firmware that add a bank of random waveforms.

EDITED Apr 2nd 2021, 09:11

I actually diy'ed a couple of those over the years 🤔
-- some_dude

For live performance purposes I believe...

I actually diy'ed a couple of those over the years 🤔

for now i have ditched the ES-9(might add it again though)but i ordered a blood cells d.o.mixx https://bloodcellsaudio.com/products/domixx

that should give my multitrack recording.also ordered the acid rain navigator,next thing on my order list is the tetra and tete
-- Broken-Form

what are you using as an audio interface?

-- JimHowell1970

im using a Presonus Studiolive 16.0.2

Haha the video was perfect!

Has anyone done any tests or have some user experience, what's your opinion on the best eurorack case, power and output module in terms of specs/sound?

I'm currently using an intellijel 7U TPS80W Max with nw2sio

The nw2s has been an improvement in sound for me as far as noise is concerned relative to the previous module that I was using which I shall not name.

Ofcourse every rack is different and performance is a matter of configuration, but let's say all things being equal and ergonomics/portability aside which power and output would you go with if looking for the highest fidelity?

Hi ModLifeCrisis,

He, he, nice one! I am afraid I am too slow to get anything done within a half hour or so ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Ha, ha, a very good one from 2 HP

Hi Left4deaf,

Did you check already the connectivity of power cable on both sides, hence at the module side and at the power bus side? If no signal, nothing at all, it might be a power issue.

Good luck with the troubleshooting and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Hi Jihel,

Thanks a lot for your reply. The shop in Greece indeed still sells them but at what price...? Wow!

The Thomann one the "Black Multi" that's the successor of the "Black 8 Multi" (Erica Synths told me). The Black Multi has only 3 outputs instead of 4, it has an octave/offset switch per multiple instead. I rather had the Black 8 Multi, the perfect (dual) buffered multiple...

I need to give the Greece shop a thought, thank you very much! Kind regards, Garfield.

Yep, nicely done 2hp. I love the video. They went all out.

Well, $2k won't cut it. For one thing, granular oscillators ain't cheap. Secondly, in order to get the modulation section to have "as many possibilities for a kind of 'controlled chaos' as possible", that required quite a bit of beef-up and some interesting modules that you don't normally encounter. And lastly, the 2 x 84 cab just wasn't cutting it as far as fulfilling either of those two points. So, I expanded the hell out of this by sticking the build into an Intellijel 7U x 104 cab, which then ALSO gave me a tile row for handling the end of the audio chain and putting in some extra attenuverters/mixing, their Noise Tools, plus a stereo audio in. The results:

OK, this thing kicks MASSIVE ass as far as stochastic-based work is concerned. And the audio chain...magnificent. Here's what's there...

Tiles: Stereo audio input (the jacks are on the case), Noise Tools, QuadrATT, two pair of VCAs, stereo submixer (allows you to fly the Beads or the Morphagene in over your stereo mix...very effective way to control that), then the stereo output.

Row 2: TWO Dust of Time oscillators, each paired with a dual VCA cloned from the Veils VCAs for their level control. 2xSAM then allows you to mix these two stereo feeds, or to control their levels manually without mixing. Then a Rossum Linnaeus stereo filter gives you thru-zero FM over your filter, plus loads of other modulation possibilities over the timbre. Beads is next, then a Morphagene allows you to loop segments of the audio at will, or under the stochastic control from the next row. The X-Pan then lets you mix all of your stereo sources in various ways, with CV over crossfading on the two stereo main inputs and CV over panning.

Row 3: This is where the magic happens. The Clank Chaos is at left for ease of access. Then a Modbox dual LFO gives you some basic modulation curves. Maths is next...then one key module, the 4ms SISM, which lets you reprocess and mix all of your modulation signals while having CV control over mixing, offsets, etc etc. After that is a Happy Nerding 3xVCA...DC-coupled VCAs for modulation level control. A Quadrax + Qx gives you four loopable envelope generators, with the Qx letting you cascade the entire EG complement if desired. The EOR/EOF trigger outs can also be used to trigger other modules. After that, a Dovemans Dual Window Comparator can pick off several gates from modulation curves as desired. Then a Klavis Caltrans quad quantizer lets you take modulation sources and, by using the various trigger/gate functions, pick off four different CVs from this. Lastly, there's a Greyscale Permutation stochastic sequencer with its Variant expander to allow the Permutation to generate two channels of CV along with its other duties.

So, no...it doesn't cost $2k. More like about $6k with the case. BUT...this is a super-comprehensive stochastic composition system with the granular synthesis you want, plus some audio extras to make the possibilities there go thru the roof! You won't (actually "can't") exhaust this, as there's so much potential in the modulation row to create endless variation and chaos-based activity that there's not really any way to create quite the same thing twice. And once patched, it'll roll right along with as much or as little input you want to utilize. More spendy...but with this, you 100% get what you're paying for.

168 hp was chosen as a limit for the non-Unicorn accounts mainly because the maximum width at that time was 168 hp, as seen in the Doepfer "monster cases". Since then, there's been some firms that have gone larger, most notably ADDAC System and their 197 hp (1 meter) cabs. Most starter cabs are below this width, so the higher width is really more of an "experienced user" requirement...hence why the widths beyond 168 hp are for the Unicorn users. But the Unicorn account is useful ALSO because you can create up to 60 separate builds...with that, you can build up multiple systems and then compare/contrast them to sort out the best approaches to your final desired result.

hi everyone!
I would like to build a rack for around 2k mostly for sound design purposes (but also for jamming a bit). I'd like it to be centered around granular synthesis, have decent audio quality and as many possibilities for a kind of 'controlled chaos' as possible.

I'm completely new to this and just been browsing, so naturally I don't know the best modules for this kind of thing ...

here's my first attempt:

Pretty sure I missed about half of what I'd really need. Happy about suggestions for modules/alternatives, etc.

Thanks!

EDITED Apr 1st 2021, 21:24

I thougt my 6U rack would be enough for me. Then I thought about a small skiff as a complement. But now I think I need about 6U more.
I am mostly into generative patches and would develop that further.
So I would be glad for some advice about new modules.
It would take some time before I can fill all the new 6U so it wold be fine with a developing plane with for example a start with 4 or 5 modules and then adding 3 or 4 at a time.

Hi there,

my TM seems not to be working properly: there is no more pulse coming out of the pulse out.
We agree that the pulse Led should be blinking according to the current pattern, right? I have no blink and it's impossible to trig anything from it, as I think I used to. (Whether I plug a cable or not into the pulse out, it doesn't blink.)(I already switched off and back on the whole rack, doesn't work).

Please see video here:

What do you think I should do?… Thanks!

for now i have ditched the ES-9(might add it again though)but i ordered a blood cells d.o.mixx https://bloodcellsaudio.com/products/domixx

that should give my multitrack recording.also ordered the acid rain navigator,next thing on my order list is the tetra and tete
-- Broken-Form

what are you using as an audio interface?

don't over look the mutable trio though - of links, kinks and shades! and don't worry if there's a bit of overlap - some things are good to have two of

I like matrix mixers and vcas a lot for mixing copies of modulation sources together and producing more complex ones - both are obviously also useful for other tasks - creating send/returns and feedback mixing for example

for a function generator I like maths - it's ergonomic and it's not overly complicated - also the illustrated manual is a fantastic learning tool - 32 patch programming examples - which hopefully also give you further ideas for patching other modules

I've not used others though to be honest though - rampage in vcv rack is the closest I've come - falistiri (or whatever it's called) just seems too cramped and all over the place - DUSG looks like a great idea - simple and workman like and AI are just releasing a single channel function generator - which might be a good buy - or a pip slope or 2 - add some utilities and you have similar functionality

unicorns can go bigger - 342hp

I would suggest just starting with a big rack (168hp by 4 rows is more than big enough) and work out what modules you want and what modules you need to support them, then get that checked by experienced modular users - by starting a thread with the url of your public rack for example (I think you can just comment on it) - this often takes several iterations and then once that is done, add a bit of space and power headroom for future expansion - add a further 30% to the power and then find a case or cases that satisfy both the power draw and the hp requirements

this way you can ignore the constraints of the case and power and concentrate on what you actually want to get from the modular and what you need to actually achieve it - it also stops you buying too small a case and then having to go and buy another one in 3 months when you realise that you "need" Maths (for example) and you only have 12hp left

good starter sizes for eurorack cases are 9u * 84hp (Doepfer), 6u * 104p (Tiptop Mantis) or 6 * 140hp (b-company go)

the doepfer and tiptop cases have been around for quite a while and have proven themselves to be solid and reliable cases and power supplies - the b-company one seems popular - I think it's a bit under-powered for the size personally