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TBH, I don't recommend trying to patch with headphones...for the same reason that I don't recommend mixing with headphones. In both cases, the frequency response and the driver proximity are going to cause various alterations to your sound that, once the sound has been routed to a pair of speakers, will become glaringly apparent. The tendency will be to lower the bass and high end when listening to phones...leading to sounds that won't cut and won't pound. Never do this. The ONLY rationale for using headphones with any synthesizer would simply be for practice; never do that when you're playing live thru a PA (unless you need them for a cue send) or in the studio.

As for the build itself...sacguy's on the right track here. I would suggest the addition of an Intellijel Quadrax, also...this gives you four cycle-able two-stage EGs, which means you can loop them to make additional LFOs for modulation purposes. Make sure and add the Qx expander for that, which then allows you access to the start and end pulses for more complex composite curves...and you can still break out an ASR three-stage from this for the VCF and/or the output VCA. Oh, and you can have CV over rise/fall parameters here, too, since the Quadrax has a pile of routing possibilities (it's got a mod matrix hiding in it!). Makes a good match with the Veils! Plus, since the TAI-4 has no envelope followers (boo hiss!), adding one to track your drum machine's volume contour might be very worthwhile (auto-wah? ducking? all need this). Plankton makes a nice 2 hp one (you won't need to tinker with it much once it's set) for a bit under $100.

Oh, and sacguy? Good call on mating the Pam's with the Plog! All sorts of wacky timing possibilities with that pairing...

+1 on Jim's suggestion here. Without the additional utility and supporting modules, this is a nice accumulation of modules...and that's about it. Start with something pre-powered like a Mantis instead of these way-too-small skiffs.

Or maybe that:
Instrument interface (befaco) through a little bandpass filter, through disting for pitch and cv tracking)...
-- deniSound

Yep, I've been looking at the Befaco: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/befaco-i4-instrument-interface.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAhs79BRD0ARIsAC6XpaX8aH6USyFV91YKPED9YK0Jgcw6KY-kQRF2NM3-ochS9iHaDOKULAUaAijKEALw_wcB

@Lugia,

I actually just reached out to the company, and they confirmed that the finished module will have phantom power. As for the impedence and input levels, I would imagine that's what the Mode 1-2-3 switch will be, no?

Unfortunately, they also said 2021 for release.

Hi - Here is my first Euro build as of today:

And here is one of the options I'm considering as to how to finish the case:

[Edit: For some reason or another, it is not displaying the correct rack build in this post. Check the link?]

My intent ultimately is to focus more on SWN, and wavetable synthesis in general, since I already have almost every other form of synthesis covered outside of modular. I do not intend to create backbeats or any kick/snare style drums with modular either. At most, some more melodic percussive elements that would be closer in timbre to wood block or toms. Again, at most. My drums are also handled outside modular.

Would love for anyone to take a look and remind me that I don't need so many trigger/gate generators if I won't be doing drums and other choice bits of hard truth.

Would also love to discuss great sound mangling/wave-shaping/rectifying/etc modules that are DIY capable or are just so unique and weird that they must be mentioned.

EDITED Nov 17th 2020, 21:57

yes. perhaps maths remains the best choice. Fallistri is a little bit short in rack but i dont know if is more complicated.

Kinks + Links is superb and useful. Also Pamela New Workout. I have Cursus Iteritas. Here is a demo if you would like to see what it can do when heavily modulated!

I have expanded once again to 104hp 7u. Have mapped out the DIY route and found it to be the most affordable with accommodations for more than adequate power.

I also need to second this as the amount of info around maths is generally super good, and it’s very reasonably priced. Especially considering the ratio of hpprice (I still got the rampage tho🤞)

EDITED Nov 17th 2020, 17:22

whatever modulation source/envelope generator you get - buy kinks and a matrix mixer - these will massively increase the effectiveness of your modulation

the big advantage that Maths has over other DUSG style modules is that someone took the trouble to create the Maths Illustrated Manual (google) - it has 32 patch suggestions in it - working your way through it with is a good grounding in modular sytnhesis

I think it's funny that people complain about Maths being indecipherable and then go and buy fallistri or rampage, both of which to me look 10 times more complicated and way less ergonomic than maths

veils will work fine for amplifying your external drum machine to modular levels!

first I would get a bigger case (6u/104hp is a good sized starter case) so you can actually build a modular synth in it rather than a collection of a few modules that won't play nicely together

you need to add modulation, envelope generators, utility modules

either a bigger case or cut back to 1 or 2 voices at most - otherwise not enough space for the support modules you need

Thanks a lot @farkas.
I have a hard time imagining the VoltageBlock, because I plan max. a 6U case. I also considered Pam's, but I don't need rhythms or master clock, my Beatstep Pro and the Digitakt can do that.
So I thought about a Quadenvelope to bring in also slow modulation.

For the record, I would highly recommend Pamela's New Workout too.

I have the Loquelic Iteritas Percido and Basimilus Iteritas, and I would recommend the Voltage Block. The VB doesn't seem to get much love around here, but the NE oscillators seem almost tailor-made for the complex rhythmic modulation that VB offers. If you have seen Baseck's VB/NE demos, you'll know how that combo can shine.
Have fun and good luck!

hello everybody,
at the moment I am planning to buy a new oscillator. At the moment Manis or Ataraxic, possibly Cursus, are on the shortlist.
Therefore it is time to think about more modulation, and of course a bigger case. I currently use for modulation an A-118-2, a ClepDiaz, a Function, and from time to time the pitch sequencer and various other outputs of the DFAM or the sequencers of the BeatstepPro.

I am thinking about a Quad Envelope. So of course the overly suspicious ones come to mind: Stages, Quadrax, Zadar, Quadigy, PonsAsinorum - you know them.

What are your experiences with NE-VCOs - is it worth a Quad-Envelope? or should i get more LFOs a la Batumi, Pams, or better something like Mimetic or VoltageBlock?

Your opinions would interest me.

that's my current 84HP rack + DFAM:

EDITED Nov 17th 2020, 16:14

It's really GOOD to see someone taking their time and building SLOWLY!!

Really good!!! It's the best way and how it should be done!! In all but the most exceptional of circumstances I don't like it when someone just buys a bunch of euro all in one go or a very short space of time. Grumble... grumble... :D

Also the

This might need additional confirmation, but you can't just hookup some external audiorate drum signal to a mixer section? because the levels inisde the module would be much higher than the outside signal. and you

I now understand you vision with the drum sync, but yeah you still need clock divisions and double check +12db is enough to bump the volca signal. But thats also part of the fun, right? :D

Hi Alex, for the output I have no problems because I enter in a sound card so I already mix the modular with other synths, drum machines and listen everything with headphones (mute what I don't need and record on pro tools).
Regarding the drum machine of the first post, I was referring more to its synchronization and start/stop with the modular. I've seen Divkid do it by combining it with a volca beats. It seems an amplified input is enough (and for this I asked for confirmation of the vermona because I can attenuate the output but also +6/+12 dB amplify the input) and the sync cable of the volca (which is a minijack) just send it to a clock divider (or multiplier) to sync rack to volca and that would be what I would like to do.
I really think I need a mixing module to get the drum machine or the whatever external synth inside the rack and then in the headphones on the sound card.
Of course I can always switch everything in the sound card and just the sync cable between the rack and the drum machine but I wanted to try this internal step, also because in this way I could "effect" the drum machine to my liking with filters or future modules.
Even the Rampage seems particularly complete but I agree with your considerations.

EDITED Nov 17th 2020, 14:02

What is still missing for me is something like a headphone out to listen to the direct out of the rack. Because what is the use to mix your stereo drum singnal within the Rack if you're doing additional mixing listening outside of the box anyway. Also I'm not really sure if you really need the symmetric input of your drummachine singal you mentioned earlier? And wouldn't it will be line signal anyway? wWth lots of cheap adapters you do not get the performance you would expect from symmertric xlr cable.

I'm also just starting out but even looking at the updated rig I feel like there are a lot of complex boxes with just little facilitation? So maybe you could mix a line singal of your rack and then mix outside of the box with the drums. But thats just my 2 cents.

FYI, there are maths alternatives like combining multiple "Make Noise Functions" or "Befaco Rampage", but you would not get as much functions with the rampage as it is missing the two additional attenuverted channels. So you will always end up loosing more rack space with the Rampage in a system.

cheers
alex

Hi all, I’ve designed my first rack for creating generative & ambient soundscapes. I’m pretty happy with it but now the question is what modules to purchase first. Looking at the below rack - if you had to start with only 3 modules, which would it be? Also open to feedback on the chosen modules /things I’m missing!

Hey Garfield,

Thanks for your heartwarming feedback, you really made my day :)

Thank you all really for the advice.
As I said I certainly intend to complete this rack and I will treasure your advice.
I'm building the two-row case I was talking about and also remember that I'm patching with werkstatt.
On the subject of linear/exponential vca combined with linear/exponential eg I had watched a very interesting video of Learning Modular about it some time ago, and the initial idea was just to start with the 2hp linear vca + the exponential eg of the stages that I really like a lot and does a lot of things (eg, sequencer, now I'm using it as an lfo controlling everything from the keyboard), but actually only he can't do all this TOGETHER.
I know the Math and I know that it does many things too, but since it is a very used module (there must be a reason!) I thought I could replace it with something else and instead it doesn't seem so.
I certainly spent much money for verbos and belgrad but I was very impressed by them and the idea of taking something that I knew I would change in the future bothered me.
I am also testing with vcv rack. The basic set is very basic, as I had it in mind. A vco, a vcf, a mixer and an adsr (not even a vca). Sure as you say, it remains playable but nothing more, so I intend to gradually expand the starting point in pc and real modular.
Lugia before this my thread, I had read several your posts here on MG and I knew about your decades of experience. Certainly I did not want to be disrespectful and indeed know that I have a lot of respect for you.
Thanks also to Sacguy, I will study the modules you suggested.
Thanks again for your patience.

Dear all,

I'm trying to sell this fantastic 61hp case:

Nono Modular Rover + Intellijel TPS30 Mini
gift: Koma Kabelhänger Module

don't know if this is the correct place since we haven't
a dedicated skiff/cases section on the marketplace,
but for any information, photos, price just send me
a private message,

cheers

Here is an improved build with my recommendations

Maths- lots of modulation, EG, function generator- so useful
Veils- VCAs are needed and great
0chd- 8 LFO for modulating the Verbos and Belgrad
Mixup- great small mixer
Pamela New Workout- superb clock and sequencer with tricks and tools

Definitely get a copy of the free software VCVRack and use it to try various combination of builds. There are free tutorials on modular setups with it online. Perhaps start with a semi-modular like Moog Mother 32? That at least would get you started with a patch synth and understand the basics. Also, get a larger case than you think will be needed. Most of modular is support type modules. In my setup, I only have 1-2 voices plus a filter and LFO but lots of support tools like VCAs, envelope generator, attenuator, mixers, logic modules and so forth. These are what make modular way different than say a traditional hardware synth or you could get a Moog Matriarch that has 90 patch points and would teach you how the various parts fit together. If you really want a full modular system, another choice are prebuilt systems like Make Noise Shared System, Doepfer A100 Basic System, or Erica Synths Black System or ALM Busy Circuits Super Coupe modular system that have all the basic modules together for you.

I started first with a Make Noise 0-coast and Korg SQ-1 sequencer then VCV Rack then a Doepfer A100 Basic System and added to it over time.

Kermit is crazy good! Some menus but nothing difficult and lots of knobs to play with so quite hands on.

Hi Sacguy71,

Yeah... sigh... all cool stuff you mention there :-)

Okay, I wrote down the Kermit on my test-list for/at my local dealer as well. I saw to my surprise that they got this one, so once i have time, I have to test the Kermit so I know where you are talking about ;-)

Thank you and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Gabor,

Oh man, what a treat this is. If I claim I would love this, that would be a serious understatement! This is just brilliant, the music, your video, the... the... ah...

I am just speechless, this is great stuff! Beautiful video material too!

Thanks a lot for sharing this, I hope you come up with more brilliant work like this! Thank you very much for this enjoyment and kind regards, Garfield.

P.S.: I have to buy a new monitor, first it went blueish then kind of sepia and then it turned completely red, must be some issues with my RGB part of my monitor. I might need to go offline for a few days till I got a new monitor...

P.S.2: ;-)

Hi Garfield.

Yeah the octasource would be cool along with 0chd for 16 LFO madness to add tons of modulation once I get a larger new case. Also like to see what Erica Synths Black Sequencer is like when it comes out as well as the Black Wave table VCO and Erica Synths DSP v2 and switch. They also make a cool matrix mixer. I have enjoyed the Erica Synths Black Polivoks filter quite a bit as it can self oscillate nicely when pushed. You would love Kermit- super crazy quad modulator that can be quad LFO, S&H, random voltage generator, envelope generator, dirty oscillator or combine these together in many patterns.

Hi Sacguy71,

So perhaps it's slowly time for you to think about the Erica Synths - Black Octasource? Crazy f*** nuts LFO but wow, what a module, I love that crazy bastard of a module ;-) You can really do weird things with it, so if that's your thing you might want to consider the Black Octasource.

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Zuggamasta,

Yes! That looks nice and tidy! Good luck with the DIY modules :-)

Enjoy modular and kind regards, Garfield.

The attenuator switches on the TAI-4 have nothing to do with the sort of attenuators I mentioned. In order to scale or alter CV and/or modulation signals, it's essential to have attenuator modules. Frequently, these also have the ability to repolarize signals...so if you want to send an inverted envelope to your VCF, and the EG has no inverted output, this would be what you needed. These also have mixer-type functions quite often, which then means you can mix different modulation signals to create bespoke composite modulation signals that can be quite complex.

Which gets us to mixers. You don't mix JUST audio signals in a synth. And, accordingly, there's two different types of mixers in modular (and most other) synths. One sort has a linear response, and this is what's needed for signals where scaling is important, such as with CVs and modulation signals. The other type (which you see often at the end of a signal path in a synth) are exponential mixers; since sound's apparent loudness (not signal level, but how WE perceive volume) follows an exponential scale, and these are pretty much solely for audio signal mixing. Plus, there's one other type of "mixer", and those are adders, which mathematically add signals together...so, if you wanted to transpose something up by an octave, you could have your CVs being fed via an adder, then use an offset DC source to add 1V to this...and there's the octave shift.

The 2hp VCA is fine for modulation level control. But since it's a linear VCA, it's not as useful for audio...unless you control it with an exponential-response EG. The real problem, though, is that far more VCAs than two are needed. You need two right off for controlling the output level and for any modulation uses, but since the rest of the synth is still very deficient, you can't see what the necessary VCA complement should be...but let me assure you, it's NOT two.

Stages is an envelope generator, true. But it has a lot more uses, and a lot of users use it as a CV sequencer of sorts. But in order to do that, you would need a proper envelope generator along with the Stages. Plus, envelopes are something that can be sent all over the place (along with LFO signals) to modulate other things; this gets us back into the "this build isn't complete" issue, since a proper build should have a lot more to it. But even with that, the Belgrad and the Verbos complex VCO are modulation-hungry things from square one, so having JUST the Stages isn't sufficient. Some proper AR and/or ADSR (better for filters and output VCAs) generators are sorely needed as well.

But the crux of the problem comes from the simple fact that this build is extremely incomplete. It's NOT a synthesizer yet. It's more akin to an incredibly expensive dub siren at this point. If that works, then fine, but I still believe you should build this out properly, especially after springing for some very expensive modules like you've done here. The difference would be like night and day.

Oh, and FYI...I'm a musician as well. But with 53 years of experience, 42 of which have seen me concentrating on electronics and electroacoustics, I might have a bit more perspective on this sort of thing. After all, they don't let you in the door to study with Stockhausen if you don't know what the hell you're doing...

I know exactly how that explosion in development happened. Originally, electronic music was viewed as a purely academic thing, and the majority of the R&D was being done by/for academic musicians and composers. One example that I can think of is the scanning polyphony method that E-Mu licensed to Sequential for the P5...the initial stab at that was done right across town in Urbana by Jim Beauchamp back in 1964. From that sort of research, it made its way to E-Mu in the early 1970s, was refined further, etc.

But what happened is that the focus for synthesizers changed from academia to pop. When it was obvious where the money was, synth companies changed their developmental paths from the academically-driven aspects to ones that were more aligned with working musicians. The annoying thing, though, is that while some academic studios were able to incorporate new developments alongside the older ones, many hide-bound academic music departments remained hopelessly stuck in their grant-writing cycles. This isn't where you want to be looking for new ideas if the objective is to create instruments for working stiffs, so by the mid-1970s, academia was just about DONE in terms of relevance.

In fact, I can cite a first-hand experience with this. Back during my undergrad, both I and my comp/theory prof "got it"...he was adamant that the future would be software-defined instruments, and I was working on adding relevant tech to the electronic music studio at MTSU (I opted to add a Memorymoog for starters...VERY smart move at that time). So when I got to Illinois and profs and grads were jizzing all over the creation of the hardware-dependent Kyma system...I knew in a flash that this was some VERY loud barking up the wrong tree! And while Symbolic Systems still puts out their DSP farm-reliant Kyma system for thousands and thousands of dollars, any one of us can go and buy an iteration of Arturia's spot-on Synclavier VST (no, really...it's PERFECT now that it has the resynthesis function), load it into the DAW of our choice, and wind up with what's essentially a bespoke Synclav Post-Pro system for a few hundred smackers! Would this have happened if, say, Michael Jackson hadn't made the original Synclav's sound an iconic part of "Thriller"? Probably not!

"TR-X0X Style drum / trigger sequencer based on the Behringer RD-9"
Looking at the picture: more like drum/trigger sequencer idea stolen from Erica Synths Drum Sequencer.
-- StrangeAttraction

Honestly, I kinda doubt it. This module was developed in direct response to people online asking Behringer about taking the sequencer from their RD-8 / RD-9 (which use basically the same sequencer) and using it in Eurorack.

I mean, is it possible they took inspiration from Erica Synths? Sure.

But honestly, I had no idea until just now that Erica Synths even made a drum sequencer.

Which means I certainly didn’t know anything about it back in August, when I suggested to Behringer that they create exactly this module. Admittedly, I only asked for 8 tracks, and I imagined 2 rows of 8 keys, not a 4x4 layout, but either layout could work equally well.

Does the Erica Synths sequencer include options for note repeat, and step repeat? How about the ability to mute or solo any of the individual tracks / sounds? Is it limited to 16 steps? Can you chain different patterns? Does it provide any auto-fill functionality (bouncing away from the current pattern, playing the auto-fill pattern, then bouncing back to the pre-auto-fill original pattern)?

"TR-X0X Style drum / trigger sequencer based on the Behringer RD-9"
Looking at the picture: more like drum/trigger sequencer idea stolen from Erica Synths Drum Sequencer.

Check if you have activated the Space Guide button.
-- modulargrid

Thank you! I don‘t know why I missed that..

Thanks everyone these are great details on one of my all time favorite bands, TD. I don't want to copy them but they are a source of inspiration along with industrial bands like KMFDM and NIN both use lots of synthesizers and samplers.

Ahoy!!

I have been thinking recently about how certain modules, that were once de rigour (at least for me and a few folk) are slipping away from us and are no longer available!

The Harvestman modules were the ones that first alerted me to this growing phenomenon, but since I have come aware of it, there are more... Make Noise - Mysteron, marked as retired on the MN website and only one or two instances in the wild that are for sale! I mean wow... what a a module, what a sound... is there anything else quite like it? I can't think of anything! It is by any reasonable definition of the word, dare I say it? Rare?

Can you think of other modules that are becoming rarities?

I was thinking of selling my Mysteron, for 'rack space reasons' it's been in it's box for a little while, but having realised that there might come a day in the not too distant future where it might not be easily replaced, or that I could end up with an instance that has been erm... lets say 'used' ... now I think I am going to keep it! It's mint!

Thoughts? Ideas? Concerns? What are you thinking?

Annnnnnnnd..... relax :D

That's much better!!! Good idea on the foam board, does the job nicely!

Hello Kel,

thank you for your reccomendation around FM synthesis. I also have the Rampage which can use one function generator to also do a lowpassfilter if it's free. The open case was scary as hell so I got a nice strong 3mm foam board to cut my own blank panels. It's not the 2mm like the panels, but close enough!
And thanks frank! I'm really grateful for all the post on here wich tought me to first understand what to do with just little things I I can then expand. I also did my mistakes already as I now see how the 2hp sine might have been a little weird of a choice instead of a basic 2hp vco which would have square saw triangle and FM input. But thats just how it goes.

here is a look at the barebones with the diy blanks

EDITED Feb 24th 2021, 14:48

Check out the blue Data Sheet link on the right just below your rack

I hope I don‘t request something somebody mentioned before but after doing some updates on my system recently I was thinking about this:

Wouldn‘t it be great if you had the possibility to set the firmware version running on the modules in your rack? In combination with additional information of the latest firmware in the module page there could be an (optional) message if there is an update available for one of your modules when you open the rack...

Maybe this is more complicated to integrate than I imagine but it could be a neat feature

Cheers and thanks to the team for managing this amazing site!

Christian

Here is a great story about TD from 1982 covering their equipment and much more:
http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/the-new-tangerine-dream/3669

Another modulartsy piece with 1950s 8mm film clips (source: archive.org). Basic patch details in the video description.

Check if you have activated the Space Guide button.

Hi Zuggamasta, nice start. I think that build with our hands is very good to understand what using and where put the hands for future experimentations.

Just some small notes:

You don't always need filters, although they have a habit of creeping in everywhere, FM synthesis is perfectly capable of creating sounds that sound like they are filtered.

You patch 01 sounds great, I like the huygge reverb too!

Please consider using something for blank panels, all it would take is one errant cable and you could create a short and be very unhappy with the result! Even some cardboard will do!

Hey Garfield,

this is my trusty Reverberation Machine ;) TC Electronic ARENA. I'm not using this for my Guitars too often but I enjoy the diffrent reverb types and colors for all other sound mangling. In the Patch I use the "Mod" color, where there is also some chorus/lfo modulation in the Reverb.
There is also a programmable Slot where you can create a Custom Reverberation Profile. I'm using one that can takes all the attack from your signal and you can build a fat drone from an electric bass for example.

Current diy-build status:
Muxlicer 80% done - but I'm waiting for a missing thonkiconn jack
Rampage 40% done - the mainboard is complete but now there is the control board on the list.

Thanks Lugia,

Indeed, I have watched the TD live shows online and they use impressive array of hardware, modular, live instruments and computer soft VSTs with division of labor. I agree- we can achieve a lot with less gear now. I will probably invest in a new computer this year to use for music production and use Ableton Live with modular and my synths. Now that I figured out how to integrate modular via the cursed Doepfer A190-4 USB/MIDI to CV module in my setup with the hardware synths and Ableton, I can do it moving forward.

Regarding VCV Rack, is there a way to use that with modular via a MIDI CV interface? I will have to do some digging to see how that works. Love VCV Rack it helped me get into modular after the 0-coast.
-- sacguy71

Back in the 1980s I was doing a live radio show and got to see Tangerine Dream twice. I saw their 1986 tour Underwater Sunlight, and in 1988 Optical Race. The band line up included Edgar Froese, Chris Franke and Paul Haslinger. I also got to meet the band backstage to hangout and even record some radio station IDs. I also got to record and interview with Edgar over the telephone ( I should try to find that tape, eh?). In 1986 and 1988 they had huge roll around floor racks of tons of MIDI synths then. You need to focus on the overall sound you want to replicate or go for, then select equipment to helps you create that sound. Keep in mind that a different sequencer, or synth will force you to think differently, and will help you explore new territory.