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I love it as a LFO, i have spent close to 2 K for several complex, modulateable LFOs before discovering Plaits LFO mode - all the weird CV shapes you can dream of.
-- znort101

OK, another feature I wasn't aware of... It's in firmware 1.1. I checked and mine is that version. I actually checked by enabling colour blind mode, also in 1.1, and it worked ;-)

EDITED May 16th 2022, 11:22

I love it as a LFO, i have spent close to 2 K for several complex, modulateable LFOs before discovering Plaits LFO mode - all the weird CV shapes you can dream of.

Nice demo that really shows off how versatile Plaits is! Some people find the sound out of it flat, but it's a very good base to work with. Its mini-Rings mode + Ruina Versio = instant metal, for example.

I really like the cello player - it's exactly the sound Autechre uses here and there and I need to try and copy it. Any hints are welcome.

I've been using Plaits next to one analog osc, a drum machine and a noise generator for three months now because that's all I've got. Just now that I've ordered my next batch (which includes a Klavis Twin Waves mkii), your video made me realise I had completely forgotten about the internal LPG/VCFA. Now there's a completely new dimension to my use of Plaits ready for exploration...

You can turn it around in your rack by clicking the rotate button - i don't know if there's a different faceplate for the inverted one but it should work as kind of a fix either way
-- Itisdud

Thanks, I didn't realise that!

It would also be nice if the inverted version was available too, so that my rack on MG looks like my actual rack.
-- mbl77

You can turn it around in your rack by clicking the rotate button - i don't know if there's a different faceplate for the inverted one but it should work as kind of a fix either way

It would also be nice if the inverted version was available too, so that my rack on MG looks like my actual rack.

Hello dear community, I've challenged myself for approx. a month recolting super nice spots on Plaits of Mutable. There are a lot of different kind of sound, showcasing the wide variety of timbre Plaits can offer.

I prefer the bottom one, but I'd dump the ladik mixer and the blank panel and add another 4* mono channels or a 4*stereo channels depending on needs...
-- JimHowell1970

Are you referring to the AI Matrix Mixer?
That‘s surprising in the past you were striking me as one of the big proponents of Matrix Mixers Jim.

-- Cangore

Haha no I was confused between the 2 cases - I mistook the AI Matrix mixer for the Ladik m-053 from the upper case...

but anyway I still prefer the bottom one - when you, inevitably, need to expand further then the tex-mix makes much more sense... as you can just add more channels rather than having to buy a whole new mixer!

@Straticah

There is several possibility for MIDI input usage. You can play one note and use the dimension to scale to chords with all kinds of options and chords modes. You can also drone with 4 voices controlled in midi and i am working currently on a new mode with integrated VCA+ADSR so you will get some kind of a full synth voice with 4 notes polyphony within the module.

Cheers.

I prefer the bottom one, but I'd dump the ladik mixer and the blank panel and add another 4* mono channels or a 4*stereo channels depending on needs...
-- JimHowell1970

Are you referring to the AI Matrix Mixer?
That‘s surprising in the past you were striking me as one of the big proponents of Matrix Mixers Jim.

I prefer the bottom one, but I'd dump the ladik mixer and the blank panel and add another 4* mono channels or a 4*stereo channels depending on needs...

why? - tex-mix is expandable - and eventually you'll probably go past this small 9u rack at which point you can just add more channels modules as you need them - which is what I'm doing: I currently have 2 * 4mono channels and a 4stereo channels - and another mono channels to debug - currently squealing like a pig... and (3hp) douts are very useful!!

So I got bitten by the Bug and stocked up on some MI Modules and now I plan to expand my existing 120hp Weasel into a 3u 84hp thing

I have two versions roughly planned out with a lot of DIY Options in them. I‘d especially love some feedback on the Mixing Section. Which would you prefer?

Erica Synths has a series of educational modules for learning about electronic music generation. I’ll be doing all of them, and we started with their EDU oscillator, then did the envelope. Next is this one, their simple VCA . Even if you don’t buy the kit, I recommend you download the user manual, it’s a great practical guide to electronics in music.
Very serviceable dual VCA, if you need more this is a good choice, easy to build and inexpensive.
EDU VCA build

• Delta-V vs Batumi in this case, I would be SO interested to have someone with experience weigh in with Pros and Cons on this one.
  -- NICU

I have both of these. There is some overlap, but they're not really comparable. Batumi provides lots of (possibly related) playable LFOs. Delta-V provides envelopes that can loop, slew, VCAs, and attenuators in a small space. It seems to me that Batumi is more useful in your proposed rack.

-- plragde

Thanks for the info from someone who has both, seriously. I'll definitely have the Batumi in the case. Delta-V seems like a TON of useful utility, but the LFOs in Batumi are what I can't live without.

Oop...now I've got a tech issue!

Apparently something about the Forum's "reply" function is Firefox-hostile. I'm typing this in (ewwwww) Edge right now, and it's working just fine. But under Firefox, I couldn't even hit the "submit" key, as nothing at all would happen when I did.

+1 on the Mantis, of course. Right now, it's possibly the best possibility for starting out in modular. Not only does it give you 208 hp of space, the power supply is quite good, but you can also link Mantises to make a 4-row rig later on.
-- Lugia

Absolutely. I was thinking of going 1x 84HP and got the same advice. Because the Mantis was not available anywhere when I wanted to start, I got the 7U 104HP Performance Case from Intellijel at twice the price. It's nearly full now. Always get a much bigger case than you expect you need because you'll use it. Modular is about learning and experimentation and that's a process that never ends!

EDITED May 15th 2022, 21:12

• Delta-V vs Batumi in this case, I would be SO interested to have someone with experience weigh in with Pros and Cons on this one.
  -- NICU

I have both of these. There is some overlap, but they're not really comparable. Batumi provides lots of (possibly related) playable LFOs. Delta-V provides envelopes that can loop, slew, VCAs, and attenuators in a small space. It seems to me that Batumi is more useful in your proposed rack.

@Ziqal Hey there it is quite hard to find tutorials on this awesome module. I read the Thread u both wrote and i cant agree more on the polyphony part since modular is kinda short on that in most cases. I really like the Chord Feature u pointed out on your website tho, since i do not own a module i cant really tell how it work. I have seen that there is a Midi in tho, is it possible to send Chords thru that? Or is the Midi in just meant for single notes that get big with the multiple oscillators?

Very nice converter, Lugia! But veeery expensive too. I can find the Pro Solo mk1 used less than 100eu

I'm not a keyboard player, I don't think I'll add a keyboard in my rig soon, just the MPC1000 for sequences and arpeggios

And its 125 € new. Also MI stopped production of all their modules.
I have one and its an awesome modulateable LFO, thinking about selling part of my complex LFO Collection that i have spent about 2 K so far because this is way cooler than Wogglebug, TINRS Wobbler, Thorn VCLFO and 5 other LFOs i have in my rack.

EDITED May 14th 2022, 10:24

Who is going to buy this? It's twice as wide as the clones, which are 8HP wide, and has the exact same controls.
Behringer's eurorack modules so far have been disappointing to me. They are cheaper, ok, but they are too bulky for the features they offer. I'd rather pay 80 Euro more to get a thinner module.

Instead of 3 Distings, what about a single Disting Ex? The user interface of the Disting EX is 10x better than the standard Disting, and it's also more powerful than two single Distings independently, for about the same cost and space.

Also, second the comment that three Distings would drive me insane. I have a single Disting EX in a small system and even just that makes me feel like a clumsy idiot non-stop. Easily my most intimidating module, personally I couldn't cope with more than one and still feel creative!

EDITED May 14th 2022, 06:39

I've built a couple of Frequency Central kits, I could write better build guides, the one's I've used were vague and outdated and lack proper clarity for simple key bits.
Had my eye on that Stasis Leak though.

+1 on the Mantis, of course. Right now, it's possibly the best possibility for starting out in modular. Not only does it give you 208 hp of space, the power supply is quite good, but you can also link Mantises to make a 4-row rig later on. And at $335, it's in the STOOPID-CHEEP zone as far as outlay's concerned. And Tiptop even makes a matching gig bag for it.

And the other thing Jim mentions is very true: starting with too small a cab will lead to the expense of another cab. Even if it looks like you'd "never" need another cab...you're going to need another cab eventually, so you may as well stall that as long as you can by getting something bigger and fixing the need for more cab space before it happens.

Actually, if you can scrounge up just 8 hp, you couldn't do much better than dropping an Expert Sleepers FH-2 in there. And that not only gives note#/noteon/noteoff, but can also handle keyboard controllers that have...yep...poly aftertouch. And it's got a few other tricks up its sleeve, such as clock-synced LFOs, arpeggiators, VCO autotuning, and Euclidean pattern gens. To me, it makes more sense to have something like that in the cab rather than relying on outboard devices.

Yep...I remember that a friend of mine had some FC stuff in his small rig, and as far as I know, it's still in there years later. Probably some of the better DIY kits out there...

Pretty normal MG behavior, actually. Just keep in mind that, when putting a build together, you need to refresh the page on a semi-routine basis to avoid these "jumpy modules". Also, when you have the "slide-under" problem, just move all of the jinky-acting modules to outside the cab, then put them back in carefully so that you're always getting everything properly side-by-side. Usually that, plus a refresh, fixes much of that nonsense.

The other important thing is that you have to use that refresh on the SCREENSHOT once you've completed things. The screenshot is very important if you're aiming to show your build, as that's what the Forum uses for the builds you see being discussed here. So when you're done, pull down the screenshot (from the 'Views' pulldown) and refresh it. At that point, it should perfectly match the build page. If not, refresh that screenshot again.

Love my Disting but three of them would drive me mad, let alone crammed next to each other!

You’ll need the Modes app so you can look up the parameters - case you didn’t know of it. And with 3 Distings it’ll be your most used app.

Cool. Have to check those out!

looks like a great start - but there's not enough expansion room - get a bigger case to start with - it's a cost saving in the long run - mantises are a great size for a starter case, are reasonably priced, have very good power supplies and are made by a reputable company... buy one...

looks ergonomically deficient to me.... all those 2 and 3hp modules next to each other are potentially unplayable... do yourself a huge favour - get a much bigger case and a much higher proportion of modules with proper knobs and spacing for fingers... or just get fewer modules...

Thanks Cangore, that's absolutely invaluable feedback. I will certainly be using it, and here are some of my return thoughts if you're interested in reading a short essay (lol).

• One of your most brilliant points is dead on: Now that Plaits is in, I can take out the 1U Osc. Good point calling them both "utility oscillators", which is my thinking also. But since Plaits is 100x the utility voice that 1U Osc is, and I have plenty of modulation sources (don't particulaly need the 1U Osc in LFO mode either) so that 1U space could be better used. I'm excited about this one!

• I thought about flipping the case, but two reasons I won't. Aesthetically, it bugs me having everything upside down. But more importantly, in my (current) layout at the end of this post I have the specific design goal of the most hands-on modules around the edges left, bottom, and right of the case.

Then the big "central hub spots" for cables spaghetti like Veils, Batumi, Stages, Links, and the output mixing are in the center/top right. It's like that less-accessible area of the case is just magnetically sucking all the cable spaghetti towards it, which is exactly what I'm going for. Just look at the density of jacks starting from Links all the way to Desmodus, it's glorious!! Hehe.

From experience in how I patch, and the tight areas in my current system where EVERYTHING always ends up getting patched together, this layout should hopefully contain the worst of the dense cable spaghetti up and away from my main control area!! Very excited about the thought I've put into this cable management!

• With Steppy, I already own the 3U version so that's why it's not in the 1U row. I also would prefer the 1U setup, but it's only a slight difference to me and not worth buying a second Steppy at the moment. My experience using the 3U Steppy is that it's very hard to use when covered with cables, but as long as it's relatively on the outside of the system somewhere, it's easy enough to get to. I'll be using Steppy to set up event programming, clock divisions, triggers etc, but probably not much for live performance.

• Highly unsure about dropping Noise Tools - feel it brings a lot of simple utility without too much overlap of the other stuff. Then again, Marbles does have a clock, and there's definitely "thematic appeal" to making Marbles the main clock of the system. I think it would need to be replaced cause it brings: 1x slew, 1x track and hold, Simple noise source, 1x simple random source - all things that I can cover with other modules, but it's still a lot in a small 1U package :)

• Peaks and Kinks. Oh, I wish - I desperately want both. I've been looking for a surprisingly long time without finding either one available to buy. I'll get one of each eventually (I hope!). If done with a clone, it's no problem and would save space - but obviously to fit the theme of this system, it's ideal to use the origianls.

• Delta-V vs Batumi in this case, I would be SO interested to have someone with experience weigh in with Pros and Cons on this one.

• Quantizer (Bard Quartet): Good question. To me it seems so small for what it provides ^_^ Why it's in there:

So, I've got a Quantizer fetish and think this is the perfect Quantizer module for this system. Marbles is great but not enough separate channels for some types of patches. I like having a keyboard for programming (not performance in this case, which is why it needs to be accessible at the edge but not necessarily "playable"). Also, having the option for keyboard-programmed, harmonically-unified Quanitization across 4 voices (and even a pseudo CV-controlled "song mode") gives me an enormous amount of traditional tonal control over the system in just 10HP.

Supposedly I'm classically trained in Western music too, so having this small 10hp concession to "traditional harmonic control" feels worth it to me as an alternate way of interacting with the system.

Note - I could be wrong, but my research indicates Plaits does NOT have a quantizer (although Braids did (?) removed because Emilie thought it was overloaded (?) Don't quote me.). So I think you might be mistaken on that front but apologies if not.

For anyone keeping track, here's the current state of the design before incorporating Cangore's feedback:

Cangore, I'll take your ideas and start working on the next revision to share here when I think I've got something!

EDITED May 13th 2022, 16:18

Hello!

New to Modular Grid and new to modular world. My first eurorack modules are on the case and I'd like to connect them with my MPC1K as I'd like to use it as a sequencer, I definitely need a midi to CV converter. As my eurorack is small enough I don't like to waste space and buy a module so I prefer to go with an outboard converter like the Kenton Pro Solo. But there are three versions and I'm totally confused, do I need the latest mk3 version or the first one (black) is more than enough? I just need a midi to CV converter, I'm not planning to connect the Pro Solo with other synths or drum machines etc and not with any other midi controller, only the MPC1K with the eurorack

I can find pretty cheap the first black version mk1 and I'm wondering if it does worth it to spend more for the mk2 or the latest one mk3 version. Do I need all these extra features they offer? Does anyone have any experience with these converters? Please let me know if I'm missing something

Also, there are some affordable converters from Doepfer like the MCV4. Are there any major differences?

EDITED May 13th 2022, 13:52

Jamming along to a generative sequence that uses Rings, SQ-1, precision adder and turing machine.

The Happy Nerding 4x Stereo Mix is pretty good if you don't mind the dual knobs - https://happynerding.com/category/4x-st-mixer/
-- wishbonebrewery

How do the dual knobs work? Do they push in / pull out to switch which channel you're interacting with?

-- Podfrog

They are concentric knobs, with the center one controlling one channel and the outer "ring" controlling another. You can't push them in but they don't protrude that far from the panel tbh. I find them ingenious and love how they save space without compromising playability.

The Happy Nerding 4x Stereo Mix is pretty good if you don't mind the dual knobs - https://happynerding.com/category/4x-st-mixer/
-- wishbonebrewery

How do the dual knobs work? Do they push in / pull out to switch which channel you're interacting with?

Here‘s another Suggestion on my Part.
I really think the layout should be different so I flipped the Case.
Plaits replaces the 1u Osc as the Utility Oscillator for FM and Stuff.
Also Peaks and Kinks should be in there, they Help out so much and are essential to a Mutable Rack if I‘d Build one.
Id drop the Noise tools for Marble Clock and Kinks. Rather get Steppy down there.
One more thing I didn’t understand is the huge Quantizer. Did I miss something? Plaits Quantizes already, Marbles can Quantize for Elements and Tides can follow via PLL. So basic setup should be Golden even without another Quantizer.
Theres still some room in the 1u row to experiment with.
Hope someone has some more Suggestions.
Maybe Delta V would be better than Batumi afterall? But I really wouldn’t want to make that decision.

Best
Chris

Edit: Oh and Tides needs that quad VCA to shine as a VCDO imho so Veils is right beside it.

EDITED May 13th 2022, 09:52

outboard mixer

Erica synths sub mix of DFAMs and LXR-02 OR Subharmonicon + Nebulae
-- rest goes into outboard mixer for EQ

It would be a Niftycase most likely or something that is powered. I haven't quite finished what I would fill this out with yet, but it's just a first idea. Some of the modules are a little heady for a first rack I think, but I am planning on getting them all slowly.

This is allready planned out quiet good and versatile... but will this be a NiftyCase or actually a wooden Box - because in that case it misses the Power Supply.

EDITED May 13th 2022, 00:28

Seems like a good thought out Case - what it just seems to miss is a proper Filter.

Hi ADR, All,

Thanks a lot for that link, good to know it's coming! ...And now it's waiting till it becomes available ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Just wanted to update with my current arrangement and ask again for feedback:

Main changes:
- Changed Erbe-Verb for Desmodus Versio. Similar CV-reverb functions but smaller.
- Worked Plaits in. Didn't feel right leaving it out.

I'm more than happy with:
- Sound Sources (Elements, Tides, Plaits, 1U VCO, External Audio Input, Noise Tools, Ripples, Desmodus Versio)
- Modulation Sources (Tides, Batumi, Stages, 1U VCO, Plaits, and plenty of audio-rate options)
- Primary Sequencing & Quantizing (Marbles, Bard Quartet, Steppy, Stages)

Main concerns:
- Still could use a more experienced eye on the "plumbing." Do I have a good balance of utilities, routing, switches, VCAs, attenuverters, CV control, mixing, etc?
- Do you see obvious blind spots or weaknesses in this setup? "Day-to-day" problems that will be frustrating?
- Is there anything that YOU would really miss having in my proposed system?

EDITED May 12th 2022, 22:39

you are welcome, love the STMix for small cases.

The Happy Nerding 4x Stereo Mix is pretty good if you don't mind the dual knobs - https://happynerding.com/category/4x-st-mixer/

You have the Palette top on your 7U rack, but the 7U performance case doesn't have that. I don't know if that's a mistake or you're trying to fix it in another way. If it's a mistake, you'll need to add the multis into the normal 1U or 3U racks.
-- Arrandan

Hah! Thanks for bringing that to my attention - it was a total mistake / misunderstanding on my part. You are correct, I need to remove that row on top. Unfortunately that loses a bit of utility - mainly the buffered mults. Luckily, I almost never find myself using buffered mults in my system (just stackables and 1->5 hubs) so I can probably survive without replacing them.

Again thanks for the pointer, if you hadn't brought it to my attention that would have been a seriously unwelcome surprise when the case arrived at my house.

EDITED May 12th 2022, 15:38

Awesome. Thanks sacguy71. Looks like a great little mixer. Perfect for what I’m looking for now.

PS: this was the initial 104HP rack I drafted, with exactly 24 active modules.

Price is obviously very different!

Hi users!

Last year I built a 62HP travel case, mostly thanks to your help. My project was to move around Europe with it - and I did mostly! Now that I'm almost broke, I'm planing to live on a pond (yes, ON a pond) where electric consumption will be very limited. And I believe low income + low electricity makes for an interesting challenge!

The idea is to limit myself to the current 62HP case I have and add an ARP 2600 + a DFAM (this one is a maybe). I've encountered a lot of difficulty building my current rack as I realized very late that it could fill no more than 12 modules, which prevented me to stack a lot of 4HP modules that I was planning to buy. Yesterday I came up with the opposite idea: fill the case with bigger modules (9 or 10) and drill a hole for (2-3) more modules to be mounted on a custom rack. Then, throw in as many passive utilities as possible (attenuators, fixed filters and LPGs).

I know nothing of power consumption, I don't even know if a 104HP palette would consume more power than a 62HP with the same modules inside. Maybe it would be simpler to trade my case but as I said, I'd prefer to focus on buying the few modules I miss and its size is still way easier to travel with (the ARP will stay on the boat but I'll still be able to travel with the case).

Now the rack:

It's centered around the Harmonaig that feeds the 3 oscillators of the ARP while the Ornament is set in sequencer mode. Pamela mostly provides synced LFOs to be fed to the S&H then RE comparator and/or Ruissellement). The Ochd is fed to passive attenuators and provide variations a bit of everywhere. The gates of Ruissellement are fed into JF in volley mode (clocked bursts) that can be routed to the DFAM trigger and/or the ARP VCAs. I added the Sarajewo here but I don't own it and it's expensive, so I'd be happy to replace it with "anything" and I'll use an FX AID (that I do own) in the meantime.

The bottom row is the external case!

In terms of cost, this is ok: I own most of the modules already, apart from the Harmonaig, the Ruissellement,the Sarajewo and some of the very inexpensive passive modules). But do you see any possible ameliorations? If the drill is a good idea of course

Thanks for reading :)

EDITED May 12th 2022, 14:13

You have the Palette top on your 7U rack, but the 7U performance case doesn't have that. I don't know if that's a mistake or you're trying to fix it in another way. If it's a mistake, you'll need to add the multis into the normal 1U or 3U racks.