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In reverse order...

Rings is the resonator section from Elements. So, yes...and more besides.

Using an ES interface as a VCA in conjunction with a DAW is...well, sort of a waste. For example, let's say you plan to do this anyway. So, what has to happen is that your signal has to go to the ES's input, go through the conversion routine, get transmitted back to the DAW, processed in some way by the DAW to control the level, go back out to the interface and get REconverted back to analog, then back into the patch. Which brings in all sorts of ugly factors such as latency, digital jitter, etc etc. Plus, you're using some expensive jacks there to do what a basic, inexpensive VCA module does. And even if you wind up controlling that VCA via Silent Way, you're still using only one output channel for that function, and there's no encode/decode/latency/jitter issues. That's really how the ES interfaces should work; the input channels really work best in a send-only method, for either audio to stripe to the DAW, or to send clocking, etc data.

In theory, you can send audio to the modular via an ES interface (basically, it's a DC-coupled audio interface) from your DAW. But if I remember right, you'll have to have Ableton address the interface as if it were an audio output, and Silent Way wouldn't enter into this part of communication. However, given the nature of analog modular synthesis, you might be better off using a proper audio input module that also has an envelope follower, as that last device there can be very useful in shaping other CVable factors (especially timbre and dynamics) by using the audio level of the input signal. Setting that sort of thing up in the computer might actually wind up being a lot more fussy and unintuitive than the few patches and knobtwiddles that the modular solution would allow.

Speaking of Sweetwater, I note they're offering the Behringer 104 hp Moog-a-like cabs now. No power, but the price is dirt cheap. After all, it's Behringer.

And yes, Ronin...their vapor-to-product ratio sucks, and I'll second that opinion about their hype methods. While they might have a Eurorack cab now, those sorts of skiffs are easy to make: extrude metal, cut to length, add ends and sliders. No brainer. Sooooo...where are all those $100 modules? Little more difficult to make those, ainnit, Uli?

It seems that all Uli needs to do to press that "play" button on the hype-o-phone is to post up some CGI mockups and then hop on Gearslutz to make everyone there go batshit crazy. "Ooooo...ULI BEHRINGER is listening to us!!!" Don't you be fooled...Uli's doing what he wants, and he knows that TROLLING (essentially, that's what I see this as) his user community results in a frenzy that's better than (and cheaper than!) a million-dollar ad campaign. Frankly, I think he needs to STFU and deliver on all of this much-hyped vaporware like the Pro-One clone, the 100M clones, his supposedly-coming-eventually polysynth clones, the 808 and 909 clones, etc.

Gear talks, bullshit walks. Uli needs to put up AND shut up.

bought a quad VCA from @bonjoey and it works great, arrived ahead of time! thanks Joey!

Thanks for the information!

I have some follow-up questions:

1. Would it be possible to use Ableton or some external instrument (like a keyboard) as a sound source into Rings/Elements using CV Tools/Silent Way?
2. Would it be possible to use CV Tools/Silent Way as a VCA (by patching the CV or audio signal into the computer and back into the modular system again)?
3. Can Elements do everything that Rings can do?

Cheers!

Hi Ronin1973,
I do not have a modular setup yet, but as a guitarist using my guitar pedalboard at hand level for years, I feel I can answer you at least partially:

Depends on what you intend to do.

In my case, I liked to sample my guitar either with a looper at my feet or with a sampling pedal at my hands, which I would activate with my picking hand after the picking action (I use no plectrum, which probably helps). After that, I would manipulate the samples/loops with my hands.

If you intend guitar playing in the most common sense, then a foot-controlled setup is definitely better, but if you are into sample and hold manipulation, hands level controls are great.

In addition to this, my idea was using the guitar signal's envelope/gate along with a couple of expression pedals to control some things hands free.

I would be interested to see how anyone actually did that too in a live situation.

I've seen a few posts regarding Eurorack as a guitar processing rig. Has anyone successfully pulled this off in a live set-up? I ask because modular is a very hands-on format requiring at least one hand and guitar almost always requires two. How do you go about tweaking a Clouds module in the middle of a song?

I can see using modular for post processing especially if you're reamping the signal through modular. But I'm most curious about the ergonomics of actual use rather than being able to theoretically put it into practice. I'm not a guitarist by trade and it's for my own edification.

I find the 2HP reverb to be kind of meh...

As a utility reverb for a smaller part, it's fine. But due to the form factor you only get a handful of controls.

Another option would be the Expert Sleepers Disting if you just need some sort of utility quality reverb. Plus you get quite a few other effects to choose from. Under $200US.

This post was necro'ed (brought back up to relevance) recently. Interesting read.

Behringer is definitely cloning. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about it. I like it. It's what people have been asking for but it's either ignored or the prices are extreme.

Surface mounted electronics have brought down the cost of electronics manufacturing. The levels of automation allow for smaller design and much better quality control. But the savings, generally, were not passed on to the consumer.

Behringer's costs of production and even R&D are the same as any other major music manufacturer or at least within their realm of possibility. Affordable, great sounding instruments seem to be Behringer's mantra... and they are going back and giving everyone a taste of the classics.

More over, the experience gained in redesigning what is starting to shape up as every major analog synth of the 1970's and 1980's gives their engineers an advantage when producing new instruments. They've had hands-on experience with anything that was popular.

I detest their marketing versus delivery. Only a handful of models have hit the market, yet they've been marketing and hyping a vast number of synths and instruments that have still yet to hit the market several months after their announcement and prototyping.

Sweetwater and other dealers had to wait and wait as the Neutron was pushed back and back. But the huge numbers of pre-orders seemed to make up for it. If your inventory is sold before it even arrives, you already have a successful product.

Rings is technically a filter (yes, a physically-modelled resonator...but that's a very fancy DSP-ish filter, ultimately) and even if doing self-resonating things, you'll get a limited palette of Rings-generated sounds. I think you're thinking more of the Mutable Elements here...which is the Rings plus a modelled vibration source. Even so, without VCAs, modulation sources, etc, the results would be sort of meh. With the ES modules, you can have Silent Way generate modulation, which helps...but without similar audio signal control, you lose a lot.

Actually, only the 40X and 48X are 51mm deep. The 60 is the usual 34mm.

The nice thing about the depth figures on the 4ms Pods, though, is that when they say 34mm, they mean it. The power components are all hiding up under that rail area at the top, so there's no busboard, power supply, etc surprises that turn your 60mm deep cab into a 40mm deep cab. The only "extra" impediment would then be ribbons and making sure there's clearance for those.

Ah ha! I finally figured out how to post images.
The 1U in the center is not standard:

Is the row spacing accurate? I see two rows of Intellijel 1U modules and 4 rows of 3U. But the spacing doesn't fully gel with the 7U case layout... though one would work if you invert the case.

Take "maximum depth" with a grain of salt. How many rackspaces have access to this maximum depth and how many are much shallower due to components (like power supplies) eating up that depth?

Before you buy a case, research it thoroughly even if it means emailing the manufacturer. Nothing will destroy your rack layout faster than a miscalculation of actual depths of your case and the reality of your modules and how you'd like to place them in your case.

My eurorack is continually evolving. Here's where I'm at now. I have my DFAM off to the side now.

Here is my first album. This is a set of 10 live tracks from my modular:
https://soundcloud.com/mod_gene/sets/playlist
I'm calling it Platy Codon, which refers to the flower carved on the back panel of my modular.

Your VCA unit only offers attenuation via CV. This will limit your abilities to make the most use out of your VCAs. You don't necessarily want your VCAs to fully close. You may also have use for them to manually attenuate a signal. They also lack trims for the CV-IN portion, which means you have to use an external device to attenuate the signal.

IMHO I would ditch that VCA and possibly the Ears and the Malekko send/return unit to make space for a better and bigger VCA unit. The Intellijel Quad VCA is a good choice. There are tons out there that vary in size and capabilities. I'd only get the one you originally selected as a secondary unit to free up my more complicated VCAs and not take up too much space.

Noise Engineering makes mutes that are 4HP for four independent mutes with normalling to the set of mutes. The mutes are passive but have active indicator lights if you choose to plug it into your power.

I have two units. They tend to work their way into a lot of my patches to create variation: controlling modulation. I tend to mute with a Eurorack mixer (Sir Mix A Lot) with built in mutes for audio.

As well as DivKid's mutes, check out Joranalogue's Select Four. It has three-way switches for mute/unmute/momentary usage as well as a selector knob for a separate channel using one of your four inputs.

If you're looking for automation of your mutes then you're getting into -switch- territory. The principle is the same except you can use a control voltage to select an input. Of course, if nothing is plugged into an input it serves as a mute.

Thanks Lugia and Ronin1973!

If I may borrow my own thread to pose a related, and perhaps naive, question...

Could a system containing of only Rings, Expert Sleepers ES-3/ES-8, and a powered case like EricaSynths Pico Case, be viable?

I'm interesting in experimenting with controlling Rings using only software (in particular, CV Tools in Ableton Live). I would like to sequence and control Rings from Ableton (through ADAT to ES-8).

I would also like to record the output of Rings into Ableton.

Could that work? :)

Now that you're moving in a different direction, start a new thread. People will get confused by reading your original post and tracing the evolution is time consuming.

Just bought a PEG from @AlbertoBS and it was a really good transaction with very fast delivery in Europe.

I haven't tried what you're trying to do with an 8nu8r.
The A-119 does have an envelope out and a gate, as well as audio out.

If money is an issue the minimum setup I would recommend is 1/4" input and output modules, the Wasp Filter and an Erica Synths Pico DSP and a few VCA's. Next I'd get an Envelope generator and LFO to see how they effect the sound. You may want distortion or a different filter. I like the Erica Synths Dual drive for distortion. Basically refine the sound you're getting to the amp.
It's likely going to take a bit of experimenting to get through this process.

The Morphagene and Clouds are useless if you don't have sounds you like. I wouldn't get them until you get sounds you like going to your amp.

Also, search Google and YouTube for "Guitar through Eurorack" to see what other people are doing.

Good Luck!

EDITED Jun 11th 2019, 00:58

Needed more envelopes.

The Pod 48x and Pod 60 are deeper than the other pods, I belive 51mm is the max module depth if memory serves.

small update,
adding vcas, more envelopes and lfos.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/image/935032.jpg

Thanks a lot for the useful comments guys, highly appreciated!
I was definitely not aware of the possible grounding and impedance problems that I could have gone into.

The sputnik and wmd inputs and outputs look really perfect, but I am afraid they also are a bit on the expensive side for starting off.
Given that I could easily use a conversion cable between the jacks especially in the output, do you think I could use something like the malekko 8nu8r as output attenuation module?

For the input I am thinking about it, since ears has envelope follower but no 1/4 jack in, while the doepfer a-119 has the opposite problem if I remember well

@Triscus Nice nice nice, everything nice!

Hello People,

i have reworked my setup for now. this is still a virtual setup, so i am hoping for lots of feedback and comments... let me know what you think,

thanks a lot,

FJL

Any reason why the T-Rex Replicator has disappeared here? It was definitely here before, I have screen caps to prove it.

T-Rex appear to be gone out of the Manufacturer list. Have they done something to offend the admin? ;)

Thank you very much for all the good advices that I have received from you. I really understand that it is best to first have a musical goal and then examine what tools are needed to achieve this.
But unfortunately I am not a particularly musical person. But I love to create and experiment with sounds. My way of working is to find some sound, riff, rhythm or harmony and then start with that to create something. So I don't begin with any musical idea. Instead, it is the properties of the modules that give me my ideas. So I don't think it's so important for me to find the "perfect" module.

I agree with Lugia, ditch the Ears for something like Sputnik's EF/Preamp or consider a Doepfer A-119 Ext., they're easier to come by. Skip the138-d and look at conventional 1/4" outputs like a WMD Pro Output. I'd also add at least a few VCA's, reverb and delay.

OK...first of all, do you need this to have a quantizer for the incoming CV? Some harmony modules have this, others don't. If this is only ever going to see CV from MIDI or a keyboard or any other controller that outputs properly-quantized scalar CV, then you might not want this to have quantizing at the input. BUT...

...consider this: what if you want to use it without that controller's output? What if you want to take some voltage curves and then quantize these for chordal use? This could be quite useful. So unless you're absolutely, 100% sure that you won't ever use an input quantizer with this module, you might want that capability.

Second, you want memory. Something like this works much better if you have a way to store progressions and/or parameters for harmonic extrapolation. If I were you, I'd only be looking at modules of this type if they provide a storage method.

Third, you really should have a plan for using whatever you put into a modular system, particularly if the device in question costs a chunk and occupies a lot of panel space. Sure, these look like they solve a lot of issues. But then again, so would a laptop, the right software + an Expert Sleepers interface with an expander or two. Furthermore, you can use that ES interface for a zillion things, wheras a harmony module is great as...well, a harmony module. Can it record what you do on the modular? No, but the right ES interface can. Can it host a USB controller? Probably not, but the right ES interface can. Can it...well, you get the idea. Building a successful modular synth requires plans. Figure out what you want to achieve sonically FIRST...then start figuring out optimal ways of accomplishing this. Unless you have loads of space planned for your build, chucking in a one-trick module such as a chord generator may well be the exact wrong way to do what you're trying to accomplish here. Step back a bit until the G.A.S. rush dies off, THEN start trying to figure out how a system like this would fit into what you do. Do you even have a clear picture of what you want to accomplish musically? If not, then you might wind up building a very expensive thing that sucks in $$$ and only outputs annoyance.

I would think so...however, I'd also be concerned that there was a potential mismatch if the idea is to plug the modular right into the amp. While the A-138d is designed to be used with stompbox send/returns, plugging it directly into an instrument-level input might cause both some overloading and impedence mismatching. For that reason, you might want to look at a load-matching device such as Radial's Tonebone Dragster to correct any issues in that connection.

And admittedly, I'm not 100% sold on using the A-138d for that purpose anyway. It's not bad as a send/return, but I think there's better and, more importantly, smaller candidates for that out there (Malekko, Bastl, etc). As far as outputs go, though, get something that has some isolation on it (ground loop hum issues between synth and amp are a very real possibility!). But looking a little further, I do see something of a problem with using the Ears module as an input. For one thing, it has no direct input jack for a 1/4" plug. It's also intended as something of a contact mic module...not exactly what's called for here. My suggestion would be to look at Sputnik's EF/Preamp instead; this offers impedence matching for instruments, has a full-on envelope follower, decade-switched input preamp level control, and the proper sort of jack to hook in directly to the modular.

Some other options are Telharmonic (Make Noise), has its own voices. Elektrofon Klang is new and does 4x CV out. Modules like Braids and Plaits have at least triads, as does the WMD Arpitecht Triad. Get both types and all of them, obviously.

Klang looks good, doing progressions from memory.

Yah the Intellijel 7U seems like a really nice case. To keep the cost down just a bit, I may end up going with the Tiptop Audio Mantis, cost per HP seems more reasonable however I can definitely see the advantage of the Intellijel with those 1U modules and that nice aluminum chassis so that's something to think about for my build.

After taking a hard look at the original idea, and meeting up with a local musician that has a Eurorack setup, I have realized Eurorack and me for live work just does not gel, however it sparked some new ideas for the home studio.

First modules arrive tomorrow :) Starting with how I want to sequence (was able to find a Variatic Sequent which I really wanted, and I was able to find a Brain Seed, thanks for showing me this one mt3!). Next step I will figure out the case, then VCO, noise/random generator, VCA, filters, LFO, headphone out/line out, a logic module, etc etc

Here is the actual build so far...

Out of curiosity do people usually start a new thread when the rack idea totally changes? Or is it cool to keep this thread going?

I would like to have a chord module for my rack. I know there are two types: One that usually gives four cv otputs from one cv input like Harmonaig or Flames Chord Machine 2 and the other type with internal oscillators/voices like QU-Bit Chord v2.
I would appreciate some advices how to think before I make my choice about what type and what module I shall consider.
I have no specific plan how to use the module but I know I want CHORDS!

Who's ace? @robocoder!

Thanks, Roberto, for making sure my module made it from Japan to The Bronx safely - you saw it had arrived before I did!

Cheers, Benton

Last Jam : DARK PLANTATION
Elektron Analog MK1 + Arturia Beatstep Pro + Modular Synth

https://www.facebook.com/MusicSpringRolls/videos/2485203738164462/

Hi lugia,
Thanks for the input, I knew already about the pittsburgh, but i am actually looking forward towards having controls at hand and not at foot! :)
Lately I was having most pedals raised for that reason.
Would you have any idea if the doepfer's attenuated output could be quiet enough to be run into a guitar amplifier?

One thing worth noting: Pittsburgh Modular had a stompbox Eurorack cab until a few years ago. Here's the page: https://pittsburghmodular.com/patch-box/ It's discontinued, but if you look around in the usual used gear locations, you might turn one up. While it doesn't hold a lot of modules, it would make for an excellent foot controller for a bigger system.

Purchased a Prizma v1 from @barebones - good comms, timely shipping, good packaging, module arrived as advertised and in good working order. Thanks!

@octon

Bought a Roland Demora, great communication, excellent packaging, everything really good! Thanks

Hi there,
I am a guitar player with a nick for electronic sounds. For some years now I have been thinking to use modular to process my guitar, basically using it as an incredibly powerful effect box to do all things that I difficultly can with my pedalboard: freeze, sample & resample, filter, chop, etc....

Now I am finally deciding what I need to get started into this whole thing.

I am looking on the best starting modules to put in between my guitar and amplifier:
utilities:
-input module for guitar (amplification) - ears
-output module for amplifier (attenuator) - doepfer a-138d
-power - tiptop audio uzeus
fun:
- doepfer wasp filter
- mutable clouds (I know it is discontinued, anyone has any idea on an alternative?)
- morphagene (expensive! cheaper alternatives?)

...and then I need advice on which control modules to put to control these beauties (vca's? pamela? sequencers?)

as said, I need advice on the minimal setup to start into it and have some fun.

Cheers!

Not sure why you'd use several ONEs when something like this would make a lot more sense and only cost slightly more: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/1010-music-bitbox-2-0
Granted, it occupies a bigger footprint, but you have far more simultaneous sample voices, plus a lot of capabilities that simply can't be crammed into a 4 hp module. Also, this allows full sample editing and manipulation to be done in the build and on the fly, along with SD card capabilities, interactivity with Ableton Live, etc.

@aeonsilence

Fast communication and shipping, nice packaging, all good!

Just received a Disting MK4 from @tomlaan. Nice communication, all good!

Yeh maybe i can swap the first row out for marbles along with 2-3 one players that would give me 2-3*256 sounds

Perhaps a controlled random source would work. Something that operates along the lines of the Buchla "Source of Uncertainty", such as Doepfer's A-149 modules, Mutable's Marbles, or the Frap Sapel. By using something like this, it's possible to constrain and direct the random variance into a specific "zone" of random activity. Within that zone, you'd still have varying degrees of randomness, but with the additional control functions, you get a more workable stochastic result.

Wow, thank you. I will consequently work through your message again later and identify and execute all your mentioned points.

Concerning the Model D, i know it takes up a lot of space, its just that i was hoping to create a setup that allows me to have an "everything in one" solution, that apparently led me to missing out on putting in important modules, like vcas, also i see that it has limitated patching capabilities.

I will get back to this thread with a hopefully more "useful" and less "sexymodulesyndrome"-like build, thank you again for your awesome response.

Here's a new modular-driven single from our band Wilder beats, hope you like it! Full length album coming later this year.

Bandcamp: https://wilderbeats.bandcamp.com/track/demens
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/2kT8RI5A1kaus9wYvs64qc?si=otH9cu7sQPq81Llaylichg
Soundcloud:

Arpeggios mostly coming from Mother32+Strymon Magneto.
Bass from Make Noise STO.
Beat mostly modular, with some additions from Ableton.

Hey lugia thanks for the reply!
You're absolutely right with the lighting Situation thats why i got myself a few led lights to brighten up my Rack.

Its hard for me to part with voices even though i could use a tiptop audio one with samples i love having access to a myriad of sounds (i am doing glitch/hitech psy stuff) but i am not convinced in the one sample player yet..... I sequence it with voltage block. maybe i should let a noise/random source do the sample select thing to get more Variation?
With Metropolis+loquelic+qpas i do my basslines together with the second loquelic Mixed.
Shapeshifter+micro sequence cover my leads and sometimes fx.
The plaits and synchrodyne fill in melodies and occasional bleeps'nbloops

Other then that i got kick,snare,hihats and percussive samples from the tiptop one. Doesnt seem too much to me

There's a lot there you could switch out...or, for that matter, eliminate altogether. And that's what's crippling this right now. For example, how many sequential devices do you need when you actually have very little in the way of logic and other clocking modifiers?

Stop and look at this build carefully, asking yourself constantly "Will I need this in 18 months?" This seems awfully specialized...and if your musical direction changes, will this build still serve your needs, or just turn into a 12u money pit?

In another post I did today, I mentioned what I call the "sexy module syndrome". This build here is that in action. Lots of wild panel art (which will be loads of fun in a dimly-lit venue! as in, no fun AT ALL), very specialized modules, and not a whole lot in evidence that is "boring". And the "boring" stuff, in the end, is what makes these function. There's not too much in the way of general-purpose stuff, either...things that you can say "yes!" about when you ask that question in the last paragraph. Yes, eight Doepfer A-110-2s all in a row would look really bland. And they seem boring in of themselves...until you start adding other basics, and then you get to really unleash those VCOs with, yep, just as much capability as several complex oscillators (depending on what else you have on hand) but more importantly, less cost than several complex oscillators.

And about all of that jazzy panel art...

Here's an experiment: turn your display brightness down to about 10-15% of normal while looking at your build above. Can you still make perfect sense of what you're looking at? No, you can't cheat by getting your eyes a couple of inches from the patchpanel on the screen, because if you do that live, it'll look really derpy. Treat this as what it is: a simulation of light levels you may have to deal with in live performance. Does this build make sense in dim light? My bet is that it won't. And yes, I know a lot of module designers pride themselves on their "edgy" designs...but then, go have a look at Grayscale's listing, where there are LOADS of plain-layout redesigns of all of that "edgy" stuff because, basically, those "edgy" graphics ARE ANNOYING. And also, turn down the lights and "let's see what happens" comes into play; are you up for memorizing every single knob function, switch function, patchpoint function, etc when the patchpanel looks like total gibberish? That's where this leads.

Yeah, I know you have a lot of this gear on-hand already. But seriously...back up for a moment and look at some prebuilds, classic synths, etc. They work because they play into what the performer needs before they know they need it. Try removing some of those "can't part with" modules, decomplicating the build. Try coming up with an arrangement of modules that reflects the signal flow you require before you plug in that first patchcord. And how much did that Piston Honda cost? The one you can't use because of the "everything else" that you're supposedly so locked in over? Hate to tell you, but you're up to your navel in that proverbial money pit already, friend. Time to figure out some strategies to get out of it!

EDITED Jun 5th 2019, 03:41