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Your groove box approach is how I got into modular, and I couldn't be happier. It's fun to build and use a completely 100% personalized instrument. Including a few drum modules is probably a good idea as you are starting out. Maybe that will be exactly what you were looking for, or if not you can always sell them on Reverb for a fair amount. I've bought and sold a few clunkers, but like you, I try to do a good bit of research before buying. If I know I'm just not going to use something after I try to incorporate it into my setup, I don't get attached to it and sell it. As far as being able to modulate a bunch of different parameters, those WMD percussion modules I mentioned are excellent. I got the Crucible and may pick up the Crater, though I probably don't really need that one.
Yes, the Elektron stuff is way too menu-divey for me. Their stuff sounds great and they have their diehard fanbase, but there is a steep learning curve and I lean more towards "one knob, one function" and not pages of menus, submenus, file subfolders, button combinations, alternate button combinations, etc. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. My workflow just appreciates the Roland and x0x-style sequencing for drums. Once you start building your personalized groove box, you'll know if you need to add outboard gear to get the results you're looking for.
I'll take a look at your updated rack plans now.
Take care!
Everything in Eurorack costs a lot, but for mixers it's ridiculous.
-- the-erc
Not necessarily. Ladik has their M-610, six channels, with pan and mono/stereo i/o, for $100, and it's expandable several ways. Now, yes, this means you won't have VCAs on every single thing, but it's just as simple to put your level control VCAs upstream from the M-610's inputs and then you'll get the same result. Autopanning: same deal...put the panner upstream of one channel, patch its outs to both sides of an M-610 input and leave the pan pot in the center. About the only things you'd lose with this over a higher-end performance mixer would be mutes and AUX send/return...but yet again, these can all be worked around. Even with the workarounds, also, you still come out ahead, monetarily.
-- Lugia
My rack when I originally posted had the Ladik 610. Now I am looking at the Happy Nerding Pan Mix as it has CV control over panning and I just noticed it has a headphone jack so I could skip the 1U headphones module. But it is considerably more money I just noticed. I may go back to the ladik until I find I need something more specifically.
Everything in Eurorack costs a lot, but for mixers it's ridiculous. Just to pick two things in stock at Thomann today :
* Befaco Hexmix + Hexpander = £730
* Soundcraft Signature 22MTK = £700
The difference in capability between the two is huge. By all accounts Hexmix is a good mixer, but you pay a gigantic premium to have it your rack. If you really need that for your live show or whatever I guess you just have to pay it, although there are lots of mixers in 19" format. In the studio it's nuts.
I'm just starting out so concerns in regard to performing live or recording are far off for me. Right now I just need to mix down so I can listen on headphones as I begin to explore.
From what I have seen in terms of a performance mixers, outboard is functionally better for less money, so yes, when I get to that stage I agree 100%.
People often say modular is a bad choice for drums, but at least there are lots of interesting options (like BIA, the WMD modules, the SSF Entities... drool) that don't have obvious equivalents in other formats. Big multi-channel mixers -- nah.
Obvious this does not apply to small inline mixers that can do CV as well as audio. Those are essential.
Yes, I think that is sufficient for living room jam needs for now.
Like I mentioned, it's all a matter of taste, but I find (and I think some folks here would agree) that the cost to effectiveness ratio of modular drums is not all that great. I've spent a fair amount of money on drum modules and rhythm sequencing options and ultimately enjoy the process and results of my $300 Behringer RD8 much more than most of the drums I come up with in my rack. Basimilus's sound and modulation versatility are excellent, and it's fun to stumble upon interesting or random rhythmic ideas with modules like Euclidean Circles (which I may end up buying one of these days), but overall I find modular drums as a good supplement to external drums. Elektron makes great drum machines, though I didn't click with their interface, so the immediacy, versatility, and value of the Roland x0x-style drum machines makes a LOT more sense to me. Drums and polyphony are where I find weaknesses in the modular approach, so those are the external sources I incorporate with my rack.
The feedback on this is consistent and, as I think about it, most of the videos I have watched use external drums as you suggest as well. So I get it that this approach has been tried and found the be lacking or just not very practical.
As I was thinking about the feedback I realized what I really want to build is a groovebox with a modular interface that I can plug some headphones in and experimenter away without needing to connect a bunch of outboard gear. This will be set up on my coffee table (Ok, I don't own a coffee table currently, but you get the idea). But we don't always get what we want so...
So I guess I will look into the Electron's (Octatrack and Digitact) as well as the Roland TR-8 and whatever else comes up as I research. I have this bad feeling I will buy one of these and then spend the next few years mastering it and never get around to actually buying the modular system this was meant to support. What didn't you like about the Electron interfaces? Is it very menu divey? In my day job I do a lot of interface and usability work so I get cranky with hardware menu systems that use a postage stamp sized screen for complex processes.
The other option is to start with the modular system and include some minimal drum support (maybe a pair of pico drums2 plus the BIA ) and when if this is not satisfactory, I look at outboard gear with a better sense of what I need.
Edit Check out the WMD drum modules. The Crucible, Crater, Chimera, and Fracture are pretty awesome.
Will do! I haven't looked at any of those yet as best as I recall.
The Cs-L looks killer. I've got the Furthrrr Generator and you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands. :)
I really like the look of the Instruo modules. Despite me going on about one wanting just one box I admit to daydreaming about getting a custom made black and gold rack just to hold them, just for aesthetics reasons. Good to have dreams.
After you start getting some modules in your rack, you will know what you need next. You will find yourself reaching for something that isn't there, and that's the next module you need to get. The Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4 or Disting EX is a good module to get early on because it covers so many of those functions that you don't realize you will need. Take a look through the manual for the huge list of functions it can serve. It's kind of menu-divey and not super fun to use, but I'm finding it more and more valuable every day. I'm still finding new things it can do.
I have been avoiding picking modules that require more than casual menu use but did already add the Disting Mk4. It just has some much to offer it seems worth the hassle.
Keep us updated and let us know what you decide. Have fun!
Thank you for all of your help. It's really helpful.
I see the rack above updated when I ripped out the QoP and friends but it isn't showing the most recent additions unless you click through.
Right now I am just moving things around and trying to cover all the functional bases. But I will build slowly and make adjustments as I go.
After gutting things I was a bit lost on what to do. I ended up borrowing the approach used in this minimal setup with some replacements and a bunch of additions.
I forgot this @farkas, but you actually deserve a shoutout for this track! I had missed the Disting's tuning mode (easy to do with everything in there) but I think it was you who mentioned it recently and it helped make this tune about 100% more listenable. Thanks 👍👍
i can only confirm that you can save as much projects as your SD card can hold (there is already a SD card included and I think you wont be able to fill it up with songs...).
I can't tell, what's the maximum number of steps per project, but I assume that your calculations are right, especially with 384 steps per sequence.
I think that's a lot since you can arrange your sequences in presets and presets in scenes. Inside these sequences can also be arranged as playlists. Have a look into the manual on page 15.
Thanks! In this piece the Ensemble Oscillator contributes a background drone at the end, but the chord and melody parts are 100% the Akemie. I like them both a lot, but I've got to say the Akemie is one of my favorite modules. Huge range from weird Just Intonation drone stuff (like my live sets a bit ago) to really melodic chill work. The BoC vibes get a big boost from the Magneto which I try not to rely on too much cause it sounds so good, but I figured I'd lean into it here and not be so persnickety for once.
Wow, I'm listening to this on your Bandcamp now. Love it!
It's got kind of a woozy BoC vibe that I really dig. I have been tossing around the idea of adding either Akemie's Castle or the Ensemble Oscillator, and this just made my decision even harder. Haha.
Good job, my friend.
It's good to keep an open attitude about gear @farkas, I've definitely found for example that the modular drum modules I've got don't blow me away and I've started looking around for alternatives. Anyway, good work and keep it up! Hope we hear more of your tunes soon.
I recently got a Monome Crow (wow!) and the first script it comes with is quite chill and melodic, fun for listening. I tweaked it a bit to create a little more integration with my rack as well as some different chord vs melody interplay, and thought it turned out pretty nice, and a lot more pop-y than my usual stuff. Check it out:
It's a bit long (surprise!) and I'll probably try and edit it down to 4-5 minutes, but I might also try a crack at turning it into an old school minimalist piece, a la Terry Riley with some different movements and sections, something a lot easier using Crow than it might be otherwise. For those curious, I'd definitely suggest giving Crow a look.
Ah, Just was reading about that mscale. If I don't really care that much about accurate tuning or am fine tuning by ear, how important is it? One of the reasons I went with the voltage lab was the amount of randomness strewn about the module.
Re cases, I have a really small space and something I can move or stack stuff on would be best. My studio is like a weird little cave at this point, and it's pretty much dominated by drums! I've been looking at some of the little cases like Intelijel, Mantis, or Nifty just to have something to run the voltage lab in for a while. I want to spend a lot of time digging into it as I did with the SubH and Dfam.
Not sure what other things I even want at this point to tie it together. Maybe a weird little sequencer. And a mini 3 or 4 ch mixer with an effects loop or two, for my organelle and raspi effects.
Nice -- Ladik to the rescue again! How do they manage to make their stuff so cheap compared to pretty much everyone else?
-- the-erc
Because most of the Ladik modules are "primitives"...they consist of the submodule circuits that you'd find behind the panel of a much more complex device. Since they're making A circuit as opposed to a BUNCH OF circuits, the cost stays down. This is the same principle guiding the development of AE's modular, which is also quite cheap and quite powerful, but for the most part also sticks with primitives.
Nothing wrong with that approach, either. A lot of old-skool diehards (like myself, I suppose) are used to patching with simple modules to build up the subsystems, instead of buying the prebuilt subsystem off the rack. A little more tedious, a LOT more potent.
@troux Thanks for listening! I really appreciate it.
Almost all of the drums on every track are recorded live in one or two takes on the Behringer RD8 (the Roland TR808 clone). There's some WMD Crucible, Loquelic Iteritas Percido, Basimilus, and Rings scattered throughout, but that RD8 is just so fun to use and gives a convincing 80s/90s vibe. That's the Behringer TD3 doing the acid line on Squares. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'll probably grab the RD9 when it's finally released. Regardless of how I feel about the classics-cloning, Behringer has redeemed themselves as far as sound and quality in my book.
Again, thanks for your time. It's always nice to have someone listen when you put something out in the world.
Take care!
Not necessarily. Ladik has their M-610, six channels, with pan and mono/stereo i/o, for $100,
-- Lugia
Nice -- Ladik to the rescue again! How do they manage to make their stuff so cheap compared to pretty much everyone else? You still get better value for money buying an external mixer, but at least Ladik give you a reasonable cost option.
Jim is correct. Bonus is that many VCAs have attuenuator/mixer built in so can get more bang for buck and space. My Intellijel Quad VCA and Befaco Hex VCA have these features which are nice. I feed mine from VCA to Doepfer Polarizing mixer and then to Intellijel Mixup then to external mixer. I still need a matrix mixer and another attenuator and switch. Can never have too many of these utility modules. If you look at prebuilt modular systems, most of the modules are utilities and support modules. Out of a 6U setup, only 1-2 modules are voices or oscillators with 1-2 filters! Take a look at the Make Noise Shared System, Erica Synths Black System and so forth. These only have a few sound modules. The rest are mixers and tools.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Woah Garfield so you have the ACLSinfonion Complex Harmonic CV Processor? Dude thats freaking awesome but expensive piece of kit. I am looking for a central master sequencer hub in the long run. I will wait until covid ends and synth shops open so I can try a bunch out. My preference is XOXO type programmable sequencers like that in the Elektron gear. Wonder what Eurorack complex sequencer would work for me?
Came up with a real wacky off the wall jam tonite with varigate 4+/Quad EG and various tweaks.
It was fun way to better learn my gear and how various sequencer/EG parameters modulate various things. The Varigate 4+ is not precise but quite good for experimental stuff and create unique random weird patterns. For melodic leads and drums, I much prefer using my Korg SQ-1 and Make Noise 0-ctrl sequencers.
Spending some 1:1 time with Make Noise tELHARMONIC. I love just about everything about the design, implementation, and presentation of this strange and wonderful oscillator, but it often evades my grasp and leaves me fidgeting hopelessly to integrate it into my patching. So, I thought we'd hang out for a bit this evening.
This is tELHARMONIC pushed through QPAS, WORNG SoundStage, and Mimeophon while modulating and pinging both vco and filter with ochd and PNW. Just a fun, wandering drone session.
Thanks, I'm glad you dig it. Yeah, Telharmonic is a strange beast, for sure. I sometimes have a hard time reigning it in. I'll make my next evening jam a Telharmonic solo drone. Let's see what tones and textures we can get out of it...
Wow! An entire album, well thank you very much for that! I can't wait to listen at your album, however it's just 3 am here and I need to catch some sleep, so I try to listen another time to it. I am sure it will be good so I can't wait till tomorrow and I hope I have time to listen at your entire album.
Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Ha, ha, yes, I guess it doesn't help much me blaming you for everything that goes wrong after (in case I would) I buy the Five12 - Vector + Jack Expander ;-) Yes, indeed, preferable I would like to keep wife + house ;-)
I watched today the loopop entire video, yes it's indeed a very nice and interesting sequencer, argh.... so tempting :-)
One little concern left though... If I checked and understood the specifications correctly, in 64 steps mode (I heard that from loopop in his video) there are only 6 presets left, so only 6x64 = 384 steps length possible. I was hoping to be able to "compose" an entire track length with a sequencer but 384 steps might not be long enough. I understood there can be 8 parts, so maximum steps are 8x384 = 3072 steps. That's to be honest for modern standards, not really mind blowing much...
The ground control, if it ever will be released, has 64 steps x 24 patterns = 1536 steps, so two songs on the ground control is the entire capacity of one project on the Vector... But ground control can go till 24 songs, so it has 12 times the capacity of a Vector and costs less than half the money...
Or did I miss something on the Vector? And is it in practical terms no issue at all?
Thank you very much in advance and kind regards, Garfield.
Edit: Removed asterisks because Markdown Syntax is not that nice ;-)
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
What a treat tonight here, 2 nice jams from you :-) I like your jams and since I am listening again to your music, I guess/hope you survived the thunderstorm?!
Thank you very much, the week couldn't have started better, kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I forgot: It's very DEEP, and as a result it's got a bit of learning curve...but man, the POWER... --> that sounds a bit like an Elektron, especially the learning curve part ;-)
Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Thank you very much for your opinion and the provided information. So there are already two modules around (or beyond) the 1k line you approve of ;-) The Sinfonion and the Vector+Jack Expander ;-)
That most likely means that if Ground Control from Endorphin.es is not going to be released that I will seriously going to consider this sequencer (Vector+Jack Expander), just need a "bit" (to be read as: "tons") of time to save money for that bank-plunderer!
Okay, thank you very much and for my bank account's sake I hope the Ground Control will be released ;-) Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
This week is my birthday, so I finished up an album to give away to everyone. These songs are a bit different than the other stuff I've shared (though that doesn't mean they're any good). There's no artsy unifying concept other than it's an expression of my influences and love of electronic music over the years. There's the spirit of krautrock, psychedelic and shoegaze, some Prince, some bangin' 90s acid techno a la Josh Wink or Plastikman, some Brian Eno, some Oval, some drone, some Kraftwerk, William S. Burroughs, and a slow-burn blooming dark minimal techno track all rolled into 35 minutes.
It would mean a lot if you gave it a spin. Hey, it's free... (though you can send me money if you want😜).
Hope you find something you like. Thanks for being a cool group of folks!
If you're planning on putting the modules into a Moog 60 hp skiff, please note that those are unpowered. This configuration won't work; I suggest dropping the Ears and replacing this with a uZeus and a flying bus cable.
One drawback of learning modular via software emulations (miRack, VCV, Softube, etc) is that you DON'T learn about the power circuits. Convenient when using the software, but VERY apt to cause mistakes such as the one above.
Oh, and the Plaits won't track the Moog's VCOs as-is; there's some CV disrepancies, and something such as an Erica MScale is necessary to correct this.
Everything in Eurorack costs a lot, but for mixers it's ridiculous.
-- the-erc
Not necessarily. Ladik has their M-610, six channels, with pan and mono/stereo i/o, for $100, and it's expandable several ways. Now, yes, this means you won't have VCAs on every single thing, but it's just as simple to put your level control VCAs upstream from the M-610's inputs and then you'll get the same result. Autopanning: same deal...put the panner upstream of one channel, patch its outs to both sides of an M-610 input and leave the pan pot in the center. About the only things you'd lose with this over a higher-end performance mixer would be mutes and AUX send/return...but yet again, these can all be worked around. Even with the workarounds, also, you still come out ahead, monetarily.
Hello, I’ve Been messing around with miRack simulator and I’m hooked. Ready to start playing with the physical modules. I’ve decided to start with the Mother-32 because I love the sound, and the sequencing and patching panel. I like the small table top size and I know in the future I would like to add another stack but keep it small. Any thoughts on this setup?
I know the black panel Maths is impossible to find, I just couldn’t resist keeping the all black theme as long as I’m dreaming. I like the thought of the contact mic for tactile purposes and plugging in other instruments. Mostly not sure about the mixer.
Thanks!
So, my I ask you a direct question and I am hoping for an honest (and not a diplomatic) answer ;-) ? Is the combination of Five12 - Vector + Jack Expander (bit over 1k bucks together) worth it? If yes, why, if not, why not?
-- GarfieldModular
No, I definitely think it's worth it. The Vector is a wildly complex and super-versatile sequencer, given all of the different algorhythmic/generative capabilities that're hiding inside of it. And the ability to get inside of it with a computer is really appealing, plus you can store complex instruction sets for it internally via its own microSD. The breakout module just ups the ante, too...allowing you to use the Vector to sequence more than just the Eurorack stuff. It's very DEEP, and as a result it's got a bit of learning curve...but man, the POWER...
put all blame on me if it helps ;)... But I hope you can keep your wife and your house! :)
There is no deep menu diving on the vector. Most buttons have double or triple function, like gate/step length/step repeat or pitch/glide or chance type/chance amount/chance bar. Also some configuration like globals has some menus not deep but scroll with left poti or prev/next button. There are also some button combos but these are very good labeled and the manual covers it all. Also patch notes describe very good what new combinations are possible. Jim has a also a good talent to keep the vector usable while maintaining and adding functions.
I am a very happy owner and I had a long journey and for me it's safe to say: I found it, I found "my" sequencer...
And you can sell it anyways if it does not suit you. It seems to be very stable in value. I saw some used with expander for like 100 bucks less than original price and they have been sold...
Hmmm, still not an easy decision, I know. But as I recommended, take your time to watch loopops video and there are also some more on yt...
Everything in Eurorack costs a lot, but for mixers it's ridiculous. Just to pick two things in stock at Thomann today :
* Befaco Hexmix + Hexpander = £730
* Soundcraft Signature 22MTK = £700
The difference in capability between the two is huge. By all accounts Hexmix is a good mixer, but you pay a gigantic premium to have it your rack. If you really need that for your live show or whatever I guess you just have to pay it, although there are lots of mixers in 19" format. In the studio it's nuts.
People often say modular is a bad choice for drums, but at least there are lots of interesting options (like BIA, the WMD modules, the SSF Entities... drool) that don't have obvious equivalents in other formats. Big multi-channel mixers -- nah.
Obvious this does not apply to small inline mixers that can do CV as well as audio. Those are essential.
you need mixers in the rack - both for modulation (ideally a matrix mixer) and for sub-mixing audio before feeding to filters/effects etc, and for panning of mono signals if your final output is stereo
the simple way to judge if you need attenuators or an output module before hitting an external mixer or audio interface is to try it:
1 straight from final module - does it clip (distort) or sound bad in any other way? - if no stop - if yes continue
2 use attenuators - try attenuators in between the final module and the mixer/interface - same question as above - same results!
3 use an output module - if you need balanced outputs then get them - if you don't need balanced outputs, then the chances are that atttenuators and converter cables are all that is really needed
If you need a headphone output then get a headphone output - 2hp and ALM Busy Circuits are places to look for dedicated modules
1/4"->1/8" cables and Passive attenuators - are really cheap - and you almost definitely need them anyway - 2hp trim or pushermanproductions do a DIY 8 channel trimmer - or any other attenuator you already have to try
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Like I mentioned, it's all a matter of taste, but I find (and I think some folks here would agree) that the cost to effectiveness ratio of modular drums is not all that great. I've spent a fair amount of money on drum modules and rhythm sequencing options and ultimately enjoy the process and results of my $300 Behringer RD8 much more than most of the drums I come up with in my rack. Basimilus's sound and modulation versatility are excellent, and it's fun to stumble upon interesting or random rhythmic ideas with modules like Euclidean Circles (which I may end up buying one of these days), but overall I find modular drums as a good supplement to external drums. Elektron makes great drum machines, though I didn't click with their interface, so the immediacy, versatility, and value of the Roland x0x-style drum machines makes a LOT more sense to me. Drums and polyphony are where I find weaknesses in the modular approach, so those are the external sources I incorporate with my rack. Edit Check out the WMD drum modules. The Crucible, Crater, Chimera, and Fracture are pretty awesome.
The Cs-L looks killer. I've got the Furthrrr Generator and you'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands. :)
After you start getting some modules in your rack, you will know what you need next. You will find yourself reaching for something that isn't there, and that's the next module you need to get. The Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4 or Disting EX is a good module to get early on because it covers so many of those functions that you don't realize you will need. Take a look through the manual for the huge list of functions it can serve. It's kind of menu-divey and not super fun to use, but I'm finding it more and more valuable every day. I'm still finding new things it can do.
Keep us updated and let us know what you decide. Have fun!
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
I too had this question. For my external mixer, I use a Keith McMillen K-mix which I love as it has bright lights and touch sensitive pads and provides 8 inputs/8 outputs plus on board reverb and compression effects. For modular mixers, I use my VCAs that have attenuators/inverters as well as a Doepfer A138c polarizer mixer and 3 channel Intellijel Mixup that has mutes and volume levels. The advantage of modular mixers from what I currently understand is the ability to mix CV and audio signals to create best submixes before send to a PA system or external mixer. Submixes are super useful! So if you have 4 voices and want to route these in creative ways then you can do so better than just send from VCA to an external audio mixer. I am saving for a larger case to get an all in one modular mixer that can let me route many voices and have CV control and mutes like the WMD Performance Mixer or the Befaco Hexmix.
