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if someone is looking for a low-cost entryway into modular that doesn't involve the controversial and ethical trappings of Behringer's low-cost alternatives.

At least with Behringer, you are still getting the know how of Moog, Roland, Intellijel and Mutable Instruments in the modules they are putting out. Controversy and ethics aside that's still a better shout than putting your lot in with Cre8audio and a guy who is obviously not making enough money from his own brand. More fool him.

I am ok with big brands like Behringer, I buy through Amazon UK. If the module stops working, I simply raise the issue with Amazon and I have no hassle returns within the 12 month guarantee period.

Also the Doepfer oscillators and filters and better in terms of quality than Cre8audio stuff and as I mentioned before, if you want to go down a cheaper multifunctional route then Dreadbox chromatic modules are excellent. I get that some people don't like big bad Behringer but there are many other low cost alternatives out there. Ladik, takaab etc

If any newbies are reading this, my guess is one day you will want to sell your cre8audio modules and I can tell you right now your resale value will be at best half price. The brands I have mentioned above will resell quickly on the second hand market and generally do ok in terms of holding their value.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

He, he, an interesting experimental jam! :-) I like the way you are going around 16:00 with that sequence and those kind of sample-voices on the background as well. Intriguing stuff you made here!

Yes, that's fun isn't it? Modulating the modulators/modulation? :-) I love to do that too.

He, he, and it is nice to see your cat again around 21:40+ :-) Was it trying to modulate even a bit more than you wanted? ;-) At about 26:10 it tries to change a few patch cables with its tail ;-) Nice finish of the track at the end, by the way.

Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Balstergeist,

He, he, this short jam is nice too! One really can do weird things with that Board Chirper and tons of fun! :-D

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Michael, and Moderator,

What the hack has this to do with modular synthesizers? To me this looks like spam... if not, please explain yourself.

Moderator, if this looks like spam to you as well, can you please remove Michael from this forum?

Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Mowse,

Okay that explains why we haven't heard from you, the good weather ;-) So looks like you got less good weather now then ;-)

At least it results in a nice track. I love that moment around 0:37 when that sequence kicks in, nice!

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

noob mistake - too small case

oh and take the neutron out - it has it's own case!

EDITED Jul 14th 2021, 21:41

This was mainly.... MakeNoise STO via DannySound Timbre into MakeNoise Mimeophon with a shed load of modulation and modulating the modulation..... then some more acid techno like bits.

I'm just going to let this play out for a while cos its weird.

Why don't you take the Neutron out of the Case to make Room for more Modules?

Dear gods, I see why they call this Eurocrack. Out of room already! Where's my Fixed Filter Bank?!

I'm with Wishbone. Keep researching and have fun experimenting. Most of the folks on this forum just don't want to see anyone waste a bunch of money and time to arrive at an unsatisfying outcome.
You can most definitely make an EDM focused system as Ronin highlighted. I don't think you have quite nailed it with this initial iteration though. Your best bet though is to start small with just a few modules, and let your needs dictate the future direction of your rack. It's fun to build these proposed dream racks, but it would be a terrible idea to sink a bunch of money into the whole thing without test driving a few of the parts first. I've mentioned in this forum many times that my first rack plan was almost completely different from my current rack. I bought a few modules to start with and just kept experimenting until I couldn't do what I wanted, and then researched the modules that would help me take that next step. Then I bought the next few modules, and so on. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
Have fun with your idea, but be prepared to go back to the planning stages often.

and I'd rather have to swallow my pride and question my own ethics rather than having a smoking hole in a rig and a related smoking hole in my wallet.

@Lugia

These modules are a collaboration with Pittsburgh Modular. I watched Richard Nicol's demo of these modules last night, and I was extremely impressed. For $99, this filter does a lot. And I doubt Richard would put his company's name on the line without extensive testing.

I understand that their initial roll-out of the Chips and Cellz has given plenty of reasons to be skeptical, but I have had both of them in my modular for over a year now and they still work as expected to this day. I don't have any need for the new Cr8/Pittsburgh modules, but I wouldn't dissuade anyone from buying them, especially if someone is looking for a low-cost entryway into modular that doesn't involve the controversial and ethical trappings of Behringer's low-cost alternatives.

EDITED Jul 14th 2021, 17:05

Thanks Garfield!

Here's a much shorter one.

yes, they send him the modules for free and then he reviews them. I think these people are called 'influencers'. I recall they did the same with the nifty case and modules and after reviewing them he spray painted over their logo and kept the case.

But don't let that put your off experimenting ;-)

I'm pretty sure I attacked starting modular from an "unpopular" angle, that has not stopped me having a load of fun in the process.
Now I find myself at the point where my Modular Rack is more about swapping one module out for another, sure I have a wish list of modules, but its relatively cash neutral at the moment as I sell things I find I don't need.

VCV confused the hell out of me to be honest, I found the hands on experimentation of having real modules in front of me to be more educational and fun! Its got to be fun!

It helps to have an idea what you want your rack to be from the start but these things evolve as you go, just start simple and small, I got a lot of mileage out of 10-12 (relatively cheap) modules in a Tiptop Happy Ending Kit case.

The weather has been so nice that I haven’t sat in front of the monster in almost two weeks. Anyhow, added XAOC Moskwa II for additional creative sequencing. Some muscle memory to develop with this one but also immediately fun.

Thanks for the replies, and for clearing up my mistaken view of modular. I apologize for wasting your time.
Can I close this thread now?
Cheers,
Jack

Sure it does. If it didn't, you wouldn't see the image that tells that the clip was blocked by the owner.

Precisely the sort of thing I was thinking of, Ronin...not a massive change to the site's scripting that would allow you whatever cab you wanted for your build. I think we can stick with the current case layout models for the Grid itself. This would be more of a "gallery" of cabs with full (authoritative!) specs, with space available probably being the best ranking criteria. That way, you could just use the navigation buttons in the existing scripting like we do with modules...you just wouldn't have the ability to pop one up onscreen to build in.

Right now, I see three primary criteria on the case listings:

1) Form factor. Is this a case? A rack housing? If it's a case, is it portable? Does it offer a lid for transport? Does it fold for transportation?
2) Power. Is the case powered? If so, does it use flying busses or fixed busboards? Is the AC supply internal or external. How much current is available? Is the power in "zones" (think Arturia here) or overall?
3) Dimensions. How deep can the modules be? How wide are the rows? What's the total available hp? What external physical dimensions does a case have? If it folds, how big is it for transport?

As far as materials, special latching (like ATA-compliant hardware) and so on...those can be in the case descriptions. Sticking with the above criteria for sorting and sifting through seems to me to be key here.

And also, if you object to Behringer, that's why the FORUMS exist. Don't screw with the database.

I'm not "into" modular (yet), but I have been researching and experimenting here on ModularGrid with rack designs, including this one that I'm calling the "EDMachine".
Jack
-- jtunes_ia

Ummmm...no.

Here's a better idea: if you don't have a copy of VCV Rack on your machine, get one. It's free: https://vcvrack.com/ Next, replicate the above cab as best as possible (there ARE some 1:1 virtual versions of these modules, fyi) in VCV. Then try using it.

So, about the point where you're going to be either very puzzled or very riled up about an hour into this...that's the point where you start realizing that this thing has some SERIOUS flaws. For example, you have no attenuators or submixers in this. That'll be fun.

Here's the real problem: you're trying to work out a build based SOLELY on the descriptions on MG. This is one of those "doomed to failure" sort of exercises. Without some practical, working knowledge of why certain things MUST be in a build, which sort of layouts will work as far as signal flow vs ergonomics, and so on, you're sort of out in a creek without a paddle. Hence the copy of VCV Rack. Trying to do this sort of thing with NO practical knowledge is a sure-fire way to incinerate your Magic Plastic on a box that costs a pile but which winds up in a closet. And speaking of that factor...

Have you considered what to do if EDM tanks? It, like everything else in music, is subject to the whims and vagaries of an easily-amused audience. If someone finds a way to amuse them in a cheaper, more practical way, that's where they'll flock to because the industry likes "cheaper". Audiences are, in general, a fairly fickle "low interest" group...you'll only find a small percentage of "true believers" among them, ever, and the rest tends to be attracted by ANY source of lights, noises, and thrashing around. So, given that, IS it really practical to spend several grand on a system that's purely focused on a musical style? Given the piles of Roland MC-303s found in pawnshops (when they'd still take 'em!) not long after the rave scene tanked in the late 1990s, I would say that, no, it's not.

A much smarter move would be to try and NOT fit the system to the music. Really, it should be the other way around. Create a suitably open-ended build that you feel confident that you'll be using sometime around 2040, and that will FIT ANY music that comes along between now and then. And no, there's no exaggeration there; system adaptability is why people will STILL slit your throat in some circles over a minty-fresh vintage ARP 2600. It's a synth that was designed c. 1970, but designed RIGHT so that it's just as valid fifty years on. And I've seen ARP 2600s in use in everything from classic 70s funk (Stevie Wonder's "Superstition", with the help of Margouleff and Cecil) to classical (even I did that...we needed a foghorn for a production of Puccini's "Suor Angelica" during my undergrad, and I was happy to oblige...and it sounded PERFECT). THAT sort of build is what you should be aiming toward...not something with a stylistic expiration date.

After all, it's not the machine that makes the music. You do. You define what it does...not the other way around.

Expect more of this, btw...I saw some scuttlebutt on YT about a new oscillator from these guys.

Frankly, I'm 100% down...if you said I could have a free VCO, and you offered me a choice between one of their new ones and a Behringer Brains, I'd take the Behringer. At least Uli's stuff tends to be somewhat (to very, actually) reliable; Cre8's modules aren't winning them any big fans in that aspect, and I'd rather have to swallow my pride and question my own ethics rather than having a smoking hole in a rig and a related smoking hole in my wallet.

EDITED Jul 14th 2021, 02:19

Does this feature even work?

So my thoughts would be:
1. Powered cases
2. Unpowered cases
3. Power supplies

I don't think it would be worth it to have cases available for building a virtual rack. It falls into the "would be nice" column.
But having the information available to peruse would be awesome. I would include a main picture of the case. Then I'd allow users to upload their own custom pictures of the case (with or without modules) to add to the description.

The description should also include the number of rows, the HP of each row, and the size of the row (3U or 1U) and the format of the row (useful for 1U set-ups since 1U isn't standardized).

Behringer has no manufacturer account on MG and it does not feel right to set a manufacturer lock on behalf of their name.
That is currently the only way to lock the entry. If the edits do not stop very soon we will implement a technical solution.
-- modulargrid

I hope the user accounts that are changing information are being logged. If someone has a habit of nefariously editing information that the account gets locked-out of creating or editing module information.

I have to agree with Arjan. Illiac is being childish. If you don't like it... if you don't support it... don't buy it.

Thank you for all your honest opinions. Im just looking on a good deal on a Doepfer system with some basic modules, so I want to plan a system on this forum to get ideas and vision for the long way. I will also have to learn more about utilities and vcas. I will have to build up this system slowly, and maybe ideas will changes over time. Im just glad to plan a system on here, reading modules, and interacting with this nice community. Thank you so much!
-- baygiooday

Designing your own system is awesome. But that might be a bit much for someone who doesn't have any hands on experience in modular. No one starts out knowing what they are doing... only assuming that they know.

Make Noise and Roland have some nice preconfigured systems.

The 500 series from Roland is pretty much a classic modular system in Eurorack. You can't go wrong there.
Make Noise has a few contemporary preconfigured systems that incorporate digital modules.

Behringer just came out with their own preconfigured systems as well. I don't think you can go wrong there either. Behringer is notorious, though.

What exactly are you trying to do? You said this rack is focused on EDM. Do you mean a complete EDM track will be generated in this rack? By rhythmic focused... do you just mean EDM percussion with maybe bass?

Here's Erica Synth's idea of an EDM percussion rack. I think this definitely defines what is needed.
https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/eurorack-systems/techno-system/

Let's flip this the other way. Do you care to explain why you chose the modules you picked out? Also why do you define Marbles and Ochd as generative?

No problem - good luck!

Thank you for considering that @JimHowell1970,

I could track back the issues to be somewhere between the cue channel and the headphone jack. When putting everything together one of the hexnuts on the Stereo got stuck and wreaked havoc on the miniswitch and PCB. I'll have some big cleanup to do now first.

would recommend dreadbox chromatic over these. Cre8audio modules tend to be cheap quality and are the only modules that I ever had that stopped functioning. Cre8audio tried to blame the 5v rail on my tip top bus board which has been rock solid for everything else even other modules that use 5v.

Hey folks!

I'm not "into" modular (yet), but I have been researching and experimenting here on ModularGrid with rack designs, including this one that I'm calling the "EDMachine".

It's a portable, highly rhythmic rack focused on EDM (note the Cockpit2 with the all-important ducker), with a few generative elements (Marbles and ochd).

Is there anything I could do to improve this design? Any feedback is welcome!

Thanks,
Jack

EDITED Jul 13th 2021, 10:45

Right...IF it's doable. I know already that this would require some tinkering with the various databases, but I think if the mods keep to ONLY commercially-available cases, it shouldn't be too chaotic to add this. Also, what I envision would simply be a "gallery" of sorts where the case specs (power especially!), form factor, etc can be shown alongside an image of the case in question. Definitely NOT calling for being able to USE the cases in builds, as that really WOULD be too much to expect in terms of necessary coding and other headaches.

Lots of problems here...first of all, some of your modules in the build are overlapping really badly, at least in the display view. You need to go back to the build page, call up the "screenshot view" again and hit "refresh" to get the proper image up. Secondly, you can't mix Intellijel format tiles and "standard" format tiles in the same row, as they're not the same size. Third: even if Cwejman was still a working concern (all indications are that it's not), nothing in reality can excuse $600 for a stereo panner/VCA. I don't even care if the solder was custom-made by GOD, nothing justifies that. And lastly, this is a pretty small build, and small builds tend to never work out well if you try and build several subsystems into the same build. In this case, trying to jam drum modules in is something I'd discourage...not because they don't work, but because of the space they require, as well as the space everything else requires, means that the whole build has to be done by underequipping something or another. And you can see some of that here inasmuch as the only sequencer for your drum modules is the Steppy, and all you have for a "voice" source is a single complex oscillator. That there isn't necessarily bad in of itself, but other points are downright strange...such as using a stereo VCF when there's no other stereo modules in the synthesis path.

Since you've got a prebuilt system already, what I would suggest is to replicate that in an MG build first. Then, once that's done, expand the rack further so that you have build space that can incorporate new build activity, and then build into that. By having it AND the sketch system in the same place, you're far more likely to be able to notice how you can expand the Erica effectively. This wouldn't necessarily have to be a public build, either...just one that allows you to see your whole "modular picture" at the same time.

Now, as for the drums...quite honestly, just get a drum machine. For one thing, the expense of Eurorack modules IN GENERAL means that you can get a decent machine for far less than the percussion modules, sequencer, mixer, etc etc that a Eurorack implementation of the same sort of thing would cost. Secondly, they're machines specifically dedicated to beats and rhythm, not a general-purpose device that you have to kludge up a drum machine in. Unless you're willing to throw a lot of $$$ around and seriously mash the space available, you simply cannot build a subsystem (or full standalone system) that can do the same thing. Or a better way to put it might be like this: your Plonk alone costs $349, and a Behringer RD-9 costs...well, $349. And that's $349 with NO extra patchcables, NO panel space robbed, NO extra expense, etc. Yeah, I get it...I don't think much of (and try to think as little as possible about) Uli and his antics, but thus far his clones of synth unobtainium have been pretty spot-on, at least as far as the ones I've encountered. Even so, diving head-first into the expensive stuff sometimes works well, but sometimes it's just a flex that'll come back to haunt your build later on.

Sure will. Once you put in the A-520 and Ciao!, you've got a complete thruput path. Add the Cosmix, and that puts you in stereo. And that's not a bad choice, actually; that gives you the possibility of using the Warps and FX Aid in either parallel (using the Cosmix's AUX send/returns) or series (just hook 'em up). Plus, with the Quadrax and Maths in place, you can begin exploring modulation control over FX.

EDITED Jul 13th 2021, 00:29

Sounds like a good idea to me (if it is doable)

Hi Baltergeist,

Ha, ha, this is a nice and funny jam, lot's of fun sounds and quite some interesting material too! Looks like you had a lot of fun :-)

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks much! I really wish the stand-alone Chirpers were still available so that I could enjoy cv control as opposed to touch points, but it's still a blast. Apparently they weren't popular enough to continue with.

Great, glad to hear it's working and thanks for taking the time to listen. All the best

Very cool baltergeist. I have been very tempted by BugBrand gear, both the modular and standalone, it all looks so exciting and putting together a modular with just their stuff or using one of their pre-configured synth voices seems like you could go a very long, long way with it.

Always like to listen to your experiments.

All the best

This isn't something I own. Just some ideas I'm playing around with. Would like to make it a reality soon. Just bought the erica synth system 3.

EDITED Jul 13th 2021, 01:26

Lovely piece. Perfect to keep me from going crazy reading endless emails and listening to endless zoom meetings!

Thanks! It's definitely more on the experimental side, but there are sweet spots to be found. My favorite bit starts around 3:50, makes me think of multiple church bells tolling, before I start using the touch points.

Wow! That is one crazy beepy bloopy machine. It does sound really good though. I could definitely see using this for accent sounds in ambient or soundscape type tracks. Thanks for posting that.

My first yootoob vid, 20+ minutes of dorking around on the Board Chirper.

Here is where I am in my build:
The space to the right of the Quadrax is reserved for QX expander

This is the build I'm looking to end up with:

I have been using what I have so far mostly with my Hydrasynth desktop. Have been gradually learning CV Tools in Ableton (MOTU 828 for CV outputs/inputs

I've been considering the Gravitational Waves as my next add so I could really mess around with the Warps module, but interested in any feedback/suggestions from the group as far as where to go next.

One of the things I would like to be able to do is run the audio from my Hydrasynth into something that would allow me to either process through various modules OR to bypass and go straight to my MOTU 828 audio interface into Ableton. Still learning but I'm assuming that the Ladik A-520 4ch(in) line preamp/Bastl Instruments Ciao! combined with the Cosmotronic Cosmix would allow me to do?

hey @dubheadz ! nice recording

btw what kind of reverb do you use in this one?

Lol :)) Thanks a lot for the kind words, @Garfield ! It is indeed self generative but I don't remember exactly the modules involved. Turing Machine from Music Thing Modular and Mal-2 from Sonic Potions provided the base voltages. I was drunk at the time of the recording anyway and it happened sometime ago.
I have some fresh takes on Instagramif anyone interested https://www.instagram.com/iondelirescu/

Several years ago, there was a competing modular site that not only showed modules available, it also had a section for CASES.

Now, yeah, I get it...it would be rather difficult to be able to insert tons of cases into the MG database and then have users building in them, calling a usable case pattern up for their build. That just sounds like a coding headache.

BUT...while MG is now the de facto "catalog" for the major synth formats, we have no listings for cases, which strikes me as a sizable hole in the completeness. At present, the only real method that exists to shop for cases is to prowl around various commerce sites, forums, etc etc etc. But would it be possible to at least "gallery" cases on here with their specs so that the MG 'one-stop' method can even apply there, making things LITERALLY 'one-stop'? I realize that that's even more spinning plates to deal with, true, but it would make it so much simpler to be able to decide ALL of your possible build actions right here without leaving the site.

Also, I don't think it would be necessary to have custom cases in this situation. Instead, concentrating this purely on the commercially-available case lines out there makes more sense, as DIYers are apt to simply build what they want for whatever spaces and circumstances exist in their situations. This is really more for the beginning synthesists, so that they can get a clearer idea as to space, ergonomics, power capabilities, portability, etc etc.

Doable? Ish?

I'm responding a little late but that's because I wanted to let it sink in for a while. I haven't had much time to really lower it yet but what a fantastic setup have you configured here. I don't think I will go along with everything but there is a lot for me to learn and explore here. I'll report back as soon as I get that far. For now, thank you very much!
-- ensemble

Hey, no prob...the main intent with this build (as with a lot of the ones I work out) was less to provide a specific "destination" and more along the lines of tossing some tangential thought in the proceedings in order to drum up new/different ideas. DO pay attention to the timing section in the 4th and 5th rows' left ends though, as that's definitely assembled with an eye to getting the various sequencers from the original build working at a higher state of complexity. Once you start tossing Boolean logic into timing signals, along with the various modules to make that logic really dance, you've really got a whole new chapter in how to get those sequencers doing some VERY complicated stuff.

Dear Lugia,

I'm responding a little late but that's because I wanted to let it sink in for a while. I haven't had much time to really lower it yet but what a fantastic setup have you configured here. I don't think I will go along with everything but there is a lot for me to learn and explore here. I'll report back as soon as I get that far. For now, thank you very much!

All the best!

Ensemble