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For a small effects rack, especially if you want to continue to use Ableton, you probably want to focus on effects that you can't get on your computer. FX Aid XL is a good in-rack choice for its size and variety, but I don't think it does anything that you can't do better outside a rack. You can try VCVRack for free and see how you like it. That might also be a good way to learn what modulation and utilities you need, though some effects or processors you might want to use in a physical rack won't be available, like Beads.

Maths is big for a rack this size. I prefer Falistri, but it's only slightly smaller. These both have many uses but you may not need their full functionality. Do you know what you want to use them for? Cosmotronic Delta-V is half the size of Maths and does much of what it does. If you just want basic envelopes, you can get smaller and simpler modules (and of course you can get envelopes and LFOs out of the computer also).

In summary, I think your modulation needs depend heavily on the particular physical effects modules you wish to use, and some manual reading and demo watching might shed light on that.

well - not meant to be condescending - forthright perhaps, but not condescending... at least you find it interesting!

possibly to do with the fact that I'm in my 50s from the North West of England, have lived nearly a 3rd of my life in Europe and don't take shit from people, even if they are paying me.. and you aren't!

-- JimHowell1970

Such a welcoming place...

EDITED Oct 17th 2021, 19:48

Using eurorack Serge for all of the modular sounds combined with a couple percussion tracks and guitar.

https://audiomack.com/embed/song/solitaire-ou-solidaire/67p-surface?background=1

All the best

Nice, works fine nearfield monitors with plain bottled water as well.

New jam with some favorite modules that I love to share with people

That's really great Garfield. Clearly demonstrates the importance of effing around!

nice rack you have there. i wish you fun with it to let it grow

Maths is never going to be a bad choice - especially if you download and work through the (imo) number 1 learning resource in modular... the 'maths illustrated supplement' - I see Falistri and I see cramped and confusing - but some people seem to love it, each to their own..

not that I would describe either as utilities - they may include things that could be seen as utilities, but should be seen as their own thing and not 'utilities' as such

I always recommend a utility starter set (these are modules that are always going to be useful): links (perhaps not so useful in an effects rack), kinks (discontinued - buy if available, else substitute wmd/ssf toolbox), shades (or similar - multiples of this will be useful without links) and veils - or modules that cover these functionally - nb get a quad cascading vca such as veils or the intellijel version or the triple one from happy nerding - but read the specs and understand the differences before buying!!!

I'd look at the FX Aid XL as an additional effect and a matrix mixer (doepfer make a reasonably priced one) as being incredibly useful for setting up send/returns, mixing modulation sources to derive more interesting ones and creating feedback loops

You certainly have an interesting way of trying to help somebody out in a condescending sort of way..
-- happygolucky

well - not meant to be condescending - forthright perhaps, but not condescending... at least you find it interesting!

possibly to do with the fact that I'm in my 50s from the North West of England, have lived nearly a 3rd of my life in Europe and don't take shit from people, even if they are paying me.. and you aren't!

Definitely Bandcamp worthy, looking forward to when you get stuff up there.

I' m learning Marbles and it's amazing to have a patch running for hours with so many differents details

Hey, thanks! That’s quite a compliment. I haven't yet considered myself Bandcamp worthy.

Yes, I had already thought about the possible issue with the -ve rail.
You certainly have an interesting way of trying to help somebody out in a condescending sort of way..

Hello!
I'm new to the modular/eurorack world and just started building my first rack. The idea is to use it as an effect-rack for live performance. My live set is played from Ableton and sending sounds and modulation to the effects through ES-9. My question is now: what utilities/function modules do I need and benefit from? Maths/Falistri or similar? Would doing it from Cvtools or VCV take away the fun? I have a bunch of midi controllers and a Doepfer Regewerk.

Here is how the rack looks so far:

Also thinking about adding a Panharmonium.

Thanks in advance!

Hi Audhentik

Thank you! :-) Yes, I love Plaits, you can use it in a quite mild patch however it can go pretty crazy too, either way, it's totally up to the user how to put Plaits into place in a patch. Great module indeed. Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi TumeniKnobs,

Oh that's a pity that you forgot how you made that great sound. Next time install a few cameras that observe exactly what you are doing so you can reproduce it ;-) Just kidding, I can't wait for more great sounds coming from you! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Audhentik,

Nice and interesting approach you got there with your setup! :-) Pity I threw away my Walkman years ago, I need to clean up my old cassette recorder, perhaps I can "misuse" that one for this purpose. Great idea!

I like creative ideas like this, hope to hear and see more from you again and kind regards, Garfield.

It's funny how modularists share this taste for Star Trek. I don’t escape it either... There is a Communicator (a nice toy version) preciously placed between my Mother-32 and my 0-Coast... :))

Artificial Singularity is a good ambient track. Congratulations!
I especially like the density and the smoothness of the pads. The depth of the mix and the spacialization too.

The length may seem daring and we too often hesitate to produce on such a dimension. But the theme lends itself well.

Great, see you on the bridge!
-- Sweelinck

Thanks for the compliments! Much appreciated. I just finished going through ST:V again and started another run through TNG. Star Trek is just so much more appealing to me than pretty much all other TV/movies. But these days I keep shouting “why the hell is it so easy to get locked out of those systems?!” Haha!

Just FYI: you can usually ask your PCB fab to exclude the production timestamp when printing the silkscreen.
-- sempervirent

Thanks for the tip! Yes I’ve done this for the current run.
The picture is of my prototype and you can see they’ve printed it on the front - Lesson learned!

yeah delay and reverb go a long way - you might want to look at the happy nerding fx aid (xl) as you can get both with modulation and bit crushing in stereo (or use as dual mono) in a single module that way (plus there are over 100 different algos that you can load into the 32 slots)

pink floyd!!! I was just thinking what to listen to whilst doing the washing up... and now I know! thanks

Ummagumma it is!!!

-- JimHowell1970

Ummagumma! Can’t believe I forgot that one… so good! Listening to it now as I tear apart my studio space and begin the rebuild to make my hardware synths better able to play nicely with the eurorack! Luckily it’s a small space, which is why I’m planning on 2x 6u cases max footprint.

Yes I think I will stick with outboard drums for the most part… I agree that it can get expensive, but really eurorack in general isn’t cheap! 😂 I’m thinking of perhaps a Befaco Kickall in kit form, maybe another Pico Drums…although it is annoying that it doesn’t remember the last sample used… you have to start from scratch every time you turn it on!

I like the Drumbrute, but I don’t love it… ideally, I think I’d sell it to fund a Roland machine like the TR-6S… the Drumbrute sounds great and has a super easy interface, but has a rather narrow sound palette… I’ll probably sit on that decision for now though and focus on the rack instead.

I've used Pamela's New Workout as a master clock and to create some melodies. I've recorded some kind of string sounds from Plaits on a Tape Loop and then added some chords from Subharmonicon and a melody from Plaits again (particle noise mode). Plaits is also running through a reverse delay (Digitech Delay).

lovely textures! and i love it to use some human voice for ambient tunes as long as they stay in the background, it's even not important to me to understand it, it just creates a perfect vibe with reverb and delay. for my own taste the voice is bit too loud at some points but still very cool:)

@happygolucky, glad this helps. A couple additional comments:

-- don't rely on my view alone or primarily. I'm a longtime musician & synthesist, but still new-ish to modular. Yes I've learned a lot and got some great sounding rigs together. But I still have a lot to learn.

-- regarding Odessa, if its inspiring to you, that's a good reason to consider it! IMO since modular is relatively expensive vs other alternatives, to me that suggests using modular where modular shines, such as having unique module designs that are difficult or impossible to emulate well in other setups. I LOVE unique oscillators and have a bunch of them. To me that's a big reason I got into modular.

-- as you get your ideas together for what will be in your first modular rack, do kick it around with people on MG. The MG crew helped me a lot to get a good initial modular setup while I still understood very little. BTW, think "balance" in terms of #s and types of modules, there's a number of basic utilities and CV needed to get a rack that works and has some depth to it.

very nice! i really love all of those noise modes on plate, crazy what kind of sounds you can create with it:) great example!

Just FYI: you can usually ask your PCB fab to exclude the production timestamp when printing the silkscreen.

yeah - modular drums are expensive and you can probably get 80% of what you can with eurorack with a drumbrute at 10% of the cost

"Oh, just one more thing" :) Don't part with your Drumbrute Impact if you master it well, it will be still useful for a long time to come. Think about Rample, Plonk, Chimera, Basimilus or ADDAC100 series (some DIY kits) in your rack instead. Look for CV control. Have a nice trip!

the 3/4 rule is quite widely known - and mentioned in a lot of newbie threads - 90% of the one's I've seen anyway!

probably not documented in manuals as they expect you to have done your research!!

the rule also applies to all rails - I think you may still have issues with the -ve rail - so don't be overly surprised if the uZeus craps out even with the more powerful brick - make sure you've set the jumper to the higher power on the -ve rail - but iirc the max draw on that is 500mA which you are really very close to already!

EDITED Oct 16th 2021, 11:33

Thanks! Can confirm the same for @chinpira - fast communication and payment! Thanks!

Well all my Mutable modules are either originals or DIY built by me, I've got Rings and Plaits and have a full size Elements in my DIY backlog - hopefully I'll get round to it sometime in the next 6 months or so!

So I really don't see a problem with having both Rings and a 2hp pluck - both have the 4 note polyphony going on - think of it like a rock band with 2 guitarists...

Nice! I love the idea of a DIY Plaits and Rings if I can find them… may I ask where you sourced them?

My Rings and Plaits are originals - they are in the really difficult levels of DIY mutable - you'll want to work your way up to them - if you haven't done any smd DIY yet I'd recommend starting with something a lot more DIY friendly (branches or shades for example or a nlc triple sloth or a nobots buffered mult) - generally you can buy pcbs and panels from pushermanproductions, amazingsynths or synthcube and the components from thonk (panel furniture) and mouser or whoever you usually buy your electronics components from - all the mutable modules are open-sourced on Emilie's github (pichonettes)

I think if you are going to get more than a couple of sound sources I'd be tempted to swap the turning machine out for something like Marbles (which is effectively 3 turing machines + grids)

Hmmm…. Interesting concept. I do have a soft spot for the diy nature of the Turing machine though…. It’s still on its way to me in Canada, so we’ll see how I get along with it and whether I want to expand on its concept and capabilities.

a matrix mixer is a phenomenal utility to add for deriving more interesting modulation cv from a limited number of sources - mult a few to it and mix them together to get another 4 modulation signals for example (or use it for send/return or feedback patching) - so versatile!

-- JimHowell1970

Hmmm… Well you learn something every day! Lol… I had kind of dismissed matrix mixers. But that comes from not really understanding their function. Looks like I have a new topic to research! Gosh this rabbit hole just keeps going deeper, doesn’t it? Ha ha!

absolutely deeper and deeper and deeper - I started with a 6u/72hp rack and I'm now about to hit about 1800hp of rack space! which I am hoping will last me through until the end of next year - unless I need a 2nd tiptop mantis for performing...

don't go anywhere near video though - hahaha - I did - see: https://www.instagram.com/jimhowell1970/ - but be warned it's another pill to swallow down that rabbit hole...

Definitely need to get some delay into my chain as well! I’ve been on a Pink Floyd kick the last few days, especially the Wish You Were Here, Meddle and Momentary Lapse of Reason albums…. Delay in boatloads and 2 guitarists!

Cheers!

== Aaron

-- aheath73

yeah delay and reverb go a long way - you might want to look at the happy nerding fx aid (xl) as you can get both with modulation and bit crushing in stereo (or use as dual mono) in a single module that way (plus there are over 100 different algos that you can load into the 32 slots)

pink floyd!!! I was just thinking what to listen to whilst doing the washing up... and now I know! thanks

Ummagumma it is!!!

EDITED Oct 16th 2021, 11:52

Well all my Mutable modules are either originals or DIY built by me, I've got Rings and Plaits and have a full size Elements in my DIY backlog - hopefully I'll get round to it sometime in the next 6 months or so!

So I really don't see a problem with having both Rings and a 2hp pluck - both have the 4 note polyphony going on - think of it like a rock band with 2 guitarists...

Nice! I love the idea of a DIY Plaits and Rings if I can find them… may I ask where you sourced them?

I think if you are going to get more than a couple of sound sources I'd be tempted to swap the turning machine out for something like Marbles (which is effectively 3 turing machines + grids)

Hmmm…. Interesting concept. I do have a soft spot for the diy nature of the Turing machine though…. It’s still on its way to me in Canada, so we’ll see how I get along with it and whether I want to expand on its concept and capabilities.

a matrix mixer is a phenomenal utility to add for deriving more interesting modulation cv from a limited number of sources - mult a few to it and mix them together to get another 4 modulation signals for example (or use it for send/return or feedback patching) - so versatile!

-- JimHowell1970

Hmmm… Well you learn something every day! Lol… I had kind of dismissed matrix mixers. But that comes from not really understanding their function. Looks like I have a new topic to research! Gosh this rabbit hole just keeps going deeper, doesn’t it? Ha ha!

Definitely need to get some delay into my chain as well! I’ve been on a Pink Floyd kick the last few days, especially the Wish You Were Here, Meddle and Momentary Lapse of Reason albums…. Delay in boatloads and 2 guitarists!

Cheers!

== Aaron

Thanks for the reply and the very useful info.
The rule of thumb could at least be stated on the manuals of power supply modules. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has not heard of the 3/4ths rule before.
I've now ordered the boost adapter!

Thanks a lot for all the replies! Summed up they give me a much better idea of Odessa. Extra thanks to Nick, your explanations were really helpful as I really am just at the beginning of my journey and trying to grasp the basic concepts of sculpting sound with a modular system.
The Odessa is deep but (because of it?) a fascinating module. Maybe I should've started out with a simpler OSC but I couldn't resist it!

EDITED Oct 16th 2021, 10:53

Awesome! Thanks Jim…

No problem

Great points to consider:

• thanks for the suggested Maths guide

• I can totally see how a multi-algorithm module like Disting could be discouraging with TOO many options! I like the idea of a focused approach with a handful of functions at a time. That would be my plan - to eventually swap out features I like to a separate module… like you said, I have a bit of elbow room with the 12u, which is where I think I’ll end up at some point…

I've had mine for roughly 4 years and used it mostly as a tape delay - I finally broke down and bought a Magneto this year... and I still use it mainly as a tape delay - I love delays! but I do have a big-ish rack (1500hp - about to add another 336hp of space - but I like to keep a reasonable amount of blind panels in there too - probably 8% of the space - and I won't be filling the extra 336hp

• I agree with the genuine MI Rings point - the Tall Dog uClouds that I already have does feel a bit cramped with its mini pots…but it was a good deal at its’ used price - and it makes good sense to reward the creatives like Emilie! On a related note, do you think Rings and the 2HP Pluck are too similar to co-exist? I do like the sound of the 4-voice polyphony in the Pluck….

Well all my Mutable modules are either originals or DIY built by me, I've got Rings and Plaits and have a full size Elements in my DIY backlog - hopefully I'll get round to it sometime in the next 6 months or so!

So I really don't see a problem with having both Rings and a 2hp pluck - both have the 4 note polyphony going on - think of it like a rock band with 2 guitarists...

• your order of operations makes total sense… too easy to get hung up on the shiny sound modules! I love the idea of the Turing Machine and Maths for instance… so many bizarre routing possibilities, modulations and utilities are indeed the heartbeat of the system.

Thanks for the amazing food for thought so far…

Keep it coming… this is invaluable information!

== Aaron

-- aheath73

I think if you are going to get more than a couple of sound sources I'd be tempted to swap the turning machine out for something like Marbles (which is effectively 3 turing machines + grids)

a matrix mixer is a phenomenal utility to add for deriving more interesting modulation cv from a limited number of sources - mult a few to it and mix them together to get another 4 modulation signals for example (or use it for send/return or feedback patching) - so versatile!

Just bought a Qu-Bit Surface from @grossy
Everything went smooth and efficient, the module arrived well packed, exactly as described.
Thanks!

Maths is brilliant - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' it is a great primer for patching in general and patch-programming in particular...

Disting is a great module - but take it slowly, set up favourites - which allows you to put 8 of the algorithms next to each other and restrict yourself to them for a month or 2 - if you find one that you gravitate to replace that algorithm with another and buy a dedicated module to cover the functionality in your rack - if you don't gel with any particular algo then swap some different ones in to the favourites - don't try to go through every algorithm to see if you like them - this often causes frustration and the thought that the manual will be constantly necessary...

After that? A Pam’s, some utilities, another voice option (2HP Pluck or a uRings clone - or another DIY VCO). I do love the soldering and assembly aspects, so I have to remember to keep that in mind…
-- aheath73

yes, yes, yes - but get a real rings, not a clone - ergonomics is important & you have the space - but more so I think Emilie deserves to be paid for designing the module and writing the code

try to aim for:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

it will give you a more balanced modular and the most options for the least money

saying that 5 or 6 sound sources is probably ok in 12u and note that some modules - Rings and filters that can self-oscillate, ro example, can count as both sound sources and sound modulators

-- JimHowell1970

Awesome! Thanks Jim…

Great points to consider:

• thanks for the suggested Maths guide

• I can totally see how a multi-algorithm module like Disting could be discouraging with TOO many options! I like the idea of a focused approach with a handful of functions at a time. That would be my plan - to eventually swap out features I like to a separate module… like you said, I have a bit of elbow room with the 12u, which is where I think I’ll end up at some point…

• I agree with the genuine MI Rings point - the Tall Dog uClouds that I already have does feel a bit cramped with its mini pots…but it was a good deal at its’ used price - and it makes good sense to reward the creatives like Emilie! On a related note, do you think Rings and the 2HP Pluck are too similar to co-exist? I do like the sound of the 4-voice polyphony in the Pluck….

• your order of operations makes total sense… too easy to get hung up on the shiny sound modules! I love the idea of the Turing Machine and Maths for instance… so many bizarre routing possibilities, modulations and utilities are indeed the heartbeat of the system.

Thanks for the amazing food for thought so far…

Keep it coming… this is invaluable information!

== Aaron

It's funny how modularists share this taste for Star Trek. I don’t escape it either... There is a Communicator (a nice toy version) preciously placed between my Mother-32 and my 0-Coast... :))

Artificial Singularity is a good ambient track. Congratulations!
I especially like the density and the smoothness of the pads. The depth of the mix and the spacialization too.

The length may seem daring and we too often hesitate to produce on such a dimension. But the theme lends itself well.

Great, see you on the bridge!

I feel the same way about Maths… it’s multi-function and quite flexible in its’ routing options. I had planned for it to be next on my purchase list. I was torn on the Disting MK IV, but I think it will give me a ton of options to figure out what direction I would like to explore in a dedicated module.

Maths is brilliant - download the 'maths illustrated supplement' it is a great primer for patching in general and patch-programming in particular...

Disting is a great module - but take it slowly, set up favourites - which allows you to put 8 of the algorithms next to each other and restrict yourself to them for a month or 2 - if you find one that you gravitate to replace that algorithm with another and buy a dedicated module to cover the functionality in your rack - if you don't gel with any particular algo then swap some different ones in to the favourites - don't try to go through every algorithm to see if you like them - this often causes frustration and the thought that the manual will be constantly necessary...

After that? A Pam’s, some utilities, another voice option (2HP Pluck or a uRings clone - or another DIY VCO). I do love the soldering and assembly aspects, so I have to remember to keep that in mind…
-- aheath73

yes, yes, yes - but get a real rings, not a clone - ergonomics is important & you have the space - but more so I think Emilie deserves to be paid for designing the module and writing the code

try to aim for:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

it will give you a more balanced modular and the most options for the least money

saying that 5 or 6 sound sources is probably ok in 12u and note that some modules - Rings and filters that can self-oscillate, ro example, can count as both sound sources and sound modulators

EDITED Oct 16th 2021, 09:55

‘I feel like I’m heading in about 20 different directions at once while trying to plan, so would love some feedback, constructive criticism and advice…’

This is a common situation and also very logical. You can't and shouldn't try to plan everything. As for a trip, you leave by defining a few essential places to visit, but it is then, on the spot, that you will discover the interest or the desire to visit others. Otherwise the process is too mental and, indeed, you can go crazy imagining 20 directions at once!

That said, in your list I see at least two that you will never be disappointed with: Maths and Disting mk4. They are not the most exotic modules, but they are like the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower... pretty much unmissable.
-- Sweelinck

Thanks Sweelinck,

Haha! Well said… I like your travel analogy… I had hit a point of “gear paralysis” yesterday, not sure which way to go next…

You’re absolutely right… you never really know what’s around the corner until you poke your head down the alley! I got too hung up on the “end” of the journey/build, instead of exploring it as it evolves, playing with each new addition to the adventure!

I feel the same way about Maths… it’s multi-function and quite flexible in its’ routing options. I had planned for it to be next on my purchase list. I was torn on the Disting MK IV, but I think it will give me a ton of options to figure out what direction I would like to explore in a dedicated module.

After that? A Pam’s, some utilities, another voice option (2HP Pluck or a uRings clone - or another DIY VCO). I do love the soldering and assembly aspects, so I have to remember to keep that in mind…

Thanks again for the insight and advice!

== Aaron

Thanks Garfield. Yeah I too love that “lead” sound that pick up in the last section. I just wish I could remember how I did that. ;-) I didn’t write anything down for this one. Oh well, that’s modular. Cheers!

‘I feel like I’m heading in about 20 different directions at once while trying to plan, so would love some feedback, constructive criticism and advice…’

This is a common situation and also very logical. You can't and shouldn't try to plan everything. As for a trip, you leave by defining a few essential places to visit, but it is then, on the spot, that you will discover the interest or the desire to visit others. Otherwise the process is too mental and, indeed, you can go crazy imagining 20 directions at once!

That said, in your list I see at least two that you will never be disappointed with: Maths and Disting mk4. They are not the most exotic modules, but they are like the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower... pretty much unmissable.

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 06:48

Hi there folks,

So like a lot of people, I’ve begun to dive into the world of Eurorack modular… I’m in the process of building my first rack and am looking for some guidance. My goal is to build a jamming/ambient/generative machine (with a little loungy/weird house thrown into the mix) that will be supplemented by a few external hardware synths and contain a bunch of DIY modules.

Ideally, I’m looking to build with the Arturia Rackbrute cases - either a 6U and a 3U, or perhaps a second 6U down the line… I’ve started with 1 of the 6U units.

The external hardware consists of:

• Korg MS-20 mini
• Behringer Crave
• drum machine - currently an Arturia Drumbrute Impact, but am thinking to replace it with a Roland TR-6S for a larger palette of percussion sounds
• Arturia KeyStep Pro to handle clock, sequencing and MIDI for now…
  ** and while I’m dreaming up my dream machine, I’d love to throw a Moog Subharmonicon/DFAM combo into the mix **

Some notes:

• First row is modules I currently own, in a Rackbrute 6U case
• Second row is incoming modules
• Row 3 & 4 are potential modules to add - including as many DIY as I can!

I feel like I’m heading in about 20 different directions at once while trying to plan, so would love some feedback, constructive criticism and advice…

Thanks in advance everyone!

EDITED Oct 16th 2021, 01:15

Hi TumeniKnobs,

Oh wow! This is so beautiful! So beautifully done and such a lovely long track, 26 minutes of pure pleasure! You have some lovely sounds in this track, for example that sound that comes into play just a bit after 18:00+ wow! I could die for a sound like that, so great, so thrilling! :-)

Excellent job and thank you very much for sharing this with us, kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks for the very kind comments Garfield, as always. :-)

Hi TumeniKnobs,

This is a great track, one that gives a lot of positive energy, I like that. It's fun to listen at it and it's very playful. Nice video too, it tells me that I need to investigate a bit more into my Studio One ;-) I am currently only using it for importing the recording from the SD card (from a PreSonus mixer) and exporting it then to a stereo WAV file... need to make more use of it I realise :-)

Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Bleepadelic,

Thank you! :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Bleepadelic,

Oh wow! This is nice and super relaxed. I am going to use this for the moments I am working on my review reports. Sorry, just back from a week holiday, so the night isn't long enough the listen at the full hour but will do that during writing the review reports! :-)

Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Vow3ll,

That's pretty nice and special, especially in combination with the video it's good fun too! :-) I got a bit of the Matrix feeling too ;-)

I am watching and listening at it now for the second time, still big fun and a great sound! Thanks a lot for sharing this little wonder and kind regards, Garfield.