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FYI, here's the math for calculating cost-per-hp:

Assume that each hp in a Eurorack case is 1/whatever-eth of the entire space amount. So that's, in the case of a Mantis (I know this one off the top of my head), you have a total of 208 hp in a cab that costs $335. So...335/208 = $1.61(ish) per hp.

Next, calculate the amount of hp in a device, then multiply that by the per hp cost. That gives, for a Moog semi, 60 x $1.61 = $96.60 extra.

Then you add that to the cost of the Moog, so $699 + $96.60 = $795.60 for the cost of an M32 PLUS the cost of housing it in a Eurorack case. So, unless you MUST have the M32 in the cab for some logistic reason, it's really not cost-effective, plus you're using 60 hp that modules that DON'T have power or housings now can't use, while the M32 has a case and power already.

+1 on Ronin's advice. Going this small on a starter system is sort of brutal. For one thing, these little "skiff builds" can't substitute for what you can get even with just a second row. Secondly, all you learn with these is a very basic (actually, TOO basic) signal path, and nothing about how supporting modules, etc can up the game of the "usual" modules. The above WILL make sound, sure...but only a fairly basic set with basic programming/playing methods. And you can pretty much forget about duophony, unless you like programming patches with a pair of tweezers on ultra-dense modules with tiny controls.

Seriously, do yourself a solid and get a Mantis. Yeah, it's bigger...but that's the whole point. More space = better ergonomics and a better module complement. And those factors are a big part of whether you can't keep your hands off of the synth...versus letting it gather dust in a corner or closet.

And don't forget: sequencers can do MORE than just CV/g/t stuff. The great example is, of course, the ARP 2500's Mixsequencer, but there's others out there that can sequence through several audio sources; I know that EMW makes one, for instance.

Which just goes to show: there's always several ways to do things in modular!

I forgot to add schneidersladen to my list above - they are great too
-- JimHowell1970

Too true! Schneidersladen is still one of the great modular nexuses...and they carry loads of brands. Probably one of the best, and definitely on par with shops like Noisebug and Perfect Circuit over here.

Id kind of like a headphones out which the isolator doesnt have - but am aware of ground loops and how much pain they can be from decades ago when I used to power my guitar pedals off of a daisy chain also blew a sensitive connection one time on a camera, I have isolated outputs now - but i guess my perspective is very guitar based - but long story short I understand the need for the isolator/groundlift.. wondering if there is similar solution with either a headphone out - or a module that can ground lift and patch into an output module like the befaco one with a headphone and stereo 6.3 outs - ive had a look but cant seem to find any info on any other modules that do a ground lift - any suggestions?
-- keefo

If you can find another 2 hp on that row, you can swap out the Isolator with HN's OUT. It's exactly what you're describing...balanced outs, headphone preamp, stereo metering, and TWO stereo input pairs so that you can use the second pair to fly in effects, etc via that control. It also has a really nice dual-ganged-pot for the main master input, so that if you notice any stereo imbalances, you can correct it there.

Okay...with this build, I tried to keep most of the sourcing for these within the EU, aside of the Intellijel stuff which should be easy enough to get over there. The build is in the very portable (DO get the gig bag!) Tiptop Mantis.

This is a very potent but simple system, and will not only serve for the January gig (and then some!), but also as a starter "core" for a larger system. Here's what's in there:

Top row: The A-119 is Doepfer's input preamp, also has an envelope follower for extracting dynamic info from the input signal, as well as a comparator that fires a gate when the input amplitude is over a level you set. Then the Erfurt/Odessa combo gives you a very complex but straightforward oscillator, in this case involving additive generation methods. The Erfurt is an interface for some internal Odessa functions, such as harmonic modulation. The Veils is for the audio path and has sufficient VCAs for the three Odessa outputs (fundamental, evens, odds) as well as the external input. Or you could just use the mixer on the VCF as well, as this G-Storm module has a 4-in mixer in addition to a lot of controls that want manual manipulation. That filter, btw, is a clone of the Syrinx filter, an impossible to find monosynth that filtered in formants, not merely just a basic cutoff. Then for a bunch of complex delay behavior, there's an Intellijel Rainmaker.

Bottom row: PWRchekr to keep an eye on your DC rail performance, then a CVable master clock from Noise Engineering. This is followed by your noise source and sample and hold. After that, there's a single-channel quantizer from Erica, which can be used along with the clock to turn LFO curves into (potentially microtonal!) quantized CV. Four LFOs are next (perfect for feeding to the quantizer), then Maths for your complex modulation source. This is followed by a Frap 321 for CV/modulation "abuse" and then a Happy Nerding 3xVCA for three channels of modulation amplitude control. After this, a Quadrax/Qx combo, then back to audio with Beads for granular tinkering. The mixer has another Veils before it to control your mixer amplitudes, then that mixer is a simple Doepfer mini stereo mixer. Lastly, there's a Happy Nerding OUT, which gives you a balanced stereo pair of 1/4" outputs, but which also has TWO stereo inputs...so, one would go from the mixer to the OUT, then if you wanted to fly either the Beads or Rainmaker over this in parallel, there's the second stereo pair. This also has your headphone preamp.

So, this is a complete system. I worked at making it simple enough for basic use while, at the same time, giving a lot of control for timbral manipulation via either the Odessa or the Gyrinx, or both. And you have a dedicated input here, so you can pipe external audio into the system and manipulate that in the same way as the oscillator, etc. And since this is mostly EU-sourced, it should be easy enough to get the modules locally in Paris, or some other shop in that general part of Europe might have anything they're missing.

EDIT: And one point I forgot to mention: with this being in a Mantis, when it's time to expand...just get another Mantis and the connection kit. Super-easy! At US$335, they're the best bargain in basic Eurorack cases right now.

EDITED Dec 1st 2021, 01:54

Easy-peasy. What you're describing is a small change in the CV being sent to a VCA along with the usual level signals.

To do this, you'll want a sample and hold, and an LFO that's swinging over only a small span of voltage. Connect the LFO (even better if you can wavefold it) to the S&H "noise" input and then run the speed up considerably so that there's no real way to hit the same CV level each time it's sampled. Then, use an adder to combine the S&H's outgoing voltage levels to the usual modulation signal that you'd feed a VCA. If you then set up a second VCA to only open when the 16ths are being fed, that'll do it.

It's still missing a lot, yeah. But as for this upcoming gig...that's definitely my sort of turf. How many channels will be set up for the installation, and is this gig supposed to be just background sound, or are you "onstage" for it? Is there a specific textural complement that you're aiming for, or are the musical requirements simpler than that? Also, what degrees of periodicity does this require if it needs to run by itself without much touch-up? Is this needing a generative aspect, or will it be played by hand throughout? These are factors that I'd need to know before I do any work on a redux of this. I definitely have some ideas, but I'll need to hone them down.

Speaking of VCAs...you might not want that quad VCA module that's right before the output mixer. It's got four DC-coupled linear VCAs...and what you want are exponential VCAs at that particular point. Reason is: we don't perceive apparent loudness as a linear function. The decibel scale is an exponential curve. Plus, DC to mixer to amp = potential for lots of smoke and damage to your speakers.

So...yank the Tangle Quartet first, then shift the NE quad to the TQ's former slot (which is the perfect place for linear/DC-coupled VCAs). Slide everything left by 2 hp, then you'll have an 8 hp hole by the mixer into which you can drop a Doepfer A-132-4 and have 2 extra hp, or just yank the NE itself and replace it with the Doepfer. Or any of a number of options, but the swap looks extremely doable...just depends on how it works with your build.

• "Seq. switch because I've heard people say they're important" -> that's not a good reason to buy any module IMHO.
  -- toodee

Damn straight! Whenever you see someone pushing a given module, the CORRECT response would be to ask them "why?". And if you get word salad or groundless superlatives or "I dunno"...flee!!! This is why, when I do a build and add/change modules, I try to explain in a sentence or two why the change would work better.

Now, as for "generative"...this little 2 x 60 isn't going to cut it, mainly because generative work requires quite a few different modulation sources, the ability of the system to "reconfigure" itself somewhat, and the ability to have several different signal paths that can be crossfaded/morphed/et al. It's worth noting that the very first piece that we'd recognize as "generative" ("Ideas of Motion at Bolton Landing" (1971), Joel Chadabe) was generated on THIS: https://modularsynthesis.com/moog/cems/cems.htm Now, sure, we have smaller form factors and functionally-denser modules these days...but you're still talking about a build that yours above isn't anywhere close to. Gotta second toodee's suggestion here: take some TIME to sit back and research this carefully. If you want to do generative, then look up generative builds by experienced synthesists...there's plenty on here. And also keep in mind that the first technically-"successful" generative synthesis thing was Sseyo's KOAN, which Brian Eno did a number of things in. It also ran on a computer, not hardware, so being able to hit HIS mark on this will either require that, or one hellacious build in hardware. Not saying it's impossible...just that you'll need to proceed slowly and carefully, and be cognizant of not just which modules go in, but how the modules synergize to create cohesive subsystems.

Now, hold up...did you guys see the thread about the Modulaire Maritime TAROT? That seems like it might even be better, because you get wavefolding in addition to waveform animation, with CV inputs in addition to the audio I/O. Plus, you get a suboscillator in there, too. About the only stumbling block would be that it's 12 hp, but it really needs that real estate given how jam-packed the panel already is.

thanksss ! but so far the 258t is not developped yet because still under development no ? Unfortunatelly i need to buy my rack now.

-- heliovolana

Actually, the 258t and the 281t are supposed to hit the street next month...hopefully in time for Xmas.

Also, unless there's some set date that you MUST have the build completed physically, you might not want to cling to that "now" when you get out in the real and discover that, more than likely, a number of modules you're looking at are not in stock. Also, if you slap everything together and proclaim it all done...well, someone will come out with something and you won't have the hp for it. Or, worse, you discover a lot of things you should NOT have done and then you're stuck.

What I did when I started building up my AE system was that I had a vision of how I wanted to use it, and then picked an initial module set for about 130 spaces (AE uses spaces...20, 16, and 12 spaces being the cab widths, either x1 or x2 rows), and left the remaining 50 wide open. Why? Because I knew from Robert Langer (runs the company) that there were going to be a LOT more modules, so I used a bunch of blanks...and just waited. Same thing applies here...never assume that your modular is "done", because invariably, it's not. Plus, I knew beforehand that open slots would be 100% necessary; in your case, you can't predict how much space is needed, so it's important to be very exacting about module complements...but leave some flexibility so that, if something new and amazing DOES come out, you've got space for it...or, if done right, your build already HAS something like that.

the sound output on my delta cep a shouldnt be outputting dc voltage? correct?

-- coyoteculler

Not necessarily. Some devices will output DC offsets via the audio, with the best-known example being the ARP 2600. It's been blowing up speakers for 50 years! But there IS a reason for this, and it's because these were built to also function as modulation and/or complex CV sources. So...annoyingly...there's a rule of thumb amongst some manufacturers that their stuff has to have that DC coupling, too.

Best solution, as always, isolation transformers.

Nah. It actually works far easier than you'd think. What the Maths is is sort of weird...it has more in common with my still-needing-to-be-restored Systron-Donner 3300 analog computer project. It can output all sorts of modulation curves...even asymmetrical ones. It can output an inverted version at the same time. And you can constantly futz around with it, warping and bending the modulation BY HAND as if the module was some mutant modulation controller/source...because that's pretty much what it IS. Yeah, it's 20 hp...but that 20 in "normal" modules could probably blow up to twice that size if you tried to replicate Maths with discrete modules.

Working on this as a Mantis build...

[Later] Oh, hawt daaamn...OK, this is where I took it:

As I noted, this build is in a Tiptop Mantis.

Top: This is your "voice" path. It starts with a proper input for the guitar that ALSO has the necessary level comparator and envelope follower from which you can send amplitude-controlled modulation. Disting next, then TWO Plaits (two oscillators can sound VERY thick) along with Happy Nerding's FM Aid, which allows the pair of Plaits to work together as a rather twisted FM source with thru-zero modulation. Veils is your VCA set, then the Forbidden Planet (I've used a Synthacon...and it howls and screeches beautifully, a potentially very cutting "lead" filter) AND a Rossum Evolution for many more filter topologies. Then next, a Ladik AUX mixer/distro. It's used to bring the effects in as a parallel mix, as opposed to using wet/dry controls for FX/mix balance. But there's a little secret here, in that the Chronoblob2 has an insert in the feedback path...so you can feed the delay directly, but break out an insert to feed through the FX Aid XL and then back...and things will get STRANGE. Last is a Happy Nerding Isolator, a stereo out with transformer isolation which lets you hit the module a bit harder, and you get back some nice transformer warm-up. But MUCH more importantly, the use of the guitar opens the build up to external noise, particularly if the output isn't isolated. Ergo, this.

Bottom: Modulation and clocking. For the MIDI, I went a lot further and put in an Expert Sleepers FH-1, which is a class-compliant MIDI over USB interface that can also work as a plug-n-go interface for a USB-MIDI controller such as the Keystep. All channels are also MIDI configurable. Footpedal interface next, then a little but potent Doepfer module that has your noise source, random voltage source, and either sample and hold or track and hold. But as for the Pam's...it sounds more like what's needed here is a Temps Utile, which is what I put in. Check the specs, and you'll see why. After that main clock gen, I've added some timing FSU fun...with a dual pulse delay, a dual pulse skipper, and a Tesseract CVable Boolean logic module for messing around with the extant clock patterns, making even MORE pattern possibilities. Then the last of those modules there output gates on up, down, steady, or moving CVs, and a comparator allows you to compare two voltages and derive even MORE gates with which to feed the Boolean gates. Note, also, that the T_u contains some random sequential tricks that can ALSO benefit from these timing manglers.

After that, a 4ms Pingable Quad LFO...and yes, the "ping" functions can set your LFO times. These also have a range from 1 kHz down to a bonkers 71 minutes in waveform length. This is useful for both regular LFO duties AND as a slow-mo source for generative work. Then, yep, Maths. And it now has clock pulses to chew on, which can trigger up even MORE interesting modulation/control funtimes. After that, a Frap 321 is there to mix/mangle/invert/etc your modulation curves, and a dual VCA based on the Veils topology is next to that so that you can control modulation levels via CV. Then your main EG set is the Quadrax, with the Qx so if you want to "cascade" the four envelope gens (in whatever order you like) to behave as one huge and VERY complex device, it's an easy patch. Clock it up at audio rates and see where THAT leads!

This is why most of us don't endorse "beauty case" builds. You simply cannot build THIS in THAT. And "THIS" is a very comprehensive 2 x 104 rig that you'll have to work very hard at to exhaust the patching possibilities. It'll be an asset to you for many years, and expand nicely into a bigger configuration later on...IF you think you need to!

EDITED Nov 29th 2021, 04:26

After looking at the docs on Isla's site, one caveat here might be the audio output levels not matching normal synth signal levels. I'd suggest something like this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-a-520-4ch-in-line-preamp Or rather, two of them, as that'll allow you to send ALL separate channels of the S2400 right into the modular's audio path. This then makes all of those play nice with the synth effects.

As for the rest, it seems to be able to deal with most any MIDI you throw at it, so using it to "translate" clocking should work, and the specs show that the clock out on the S2400 operates at the proper +5V level. So there's your lock-up!

Personally, I think this could actually be solved by adding a few little groups of letters to the panel graphics to definitively show "OUT" and "IN". This "colored jack" labeling method is also one of the more annoying thing about Moog's 60 hp-ers.

There ya go! This isn't a bad build at all. The only thing that seems to need changing...and you have the space once you pull the HN mixer and the 2 hp blank...is that HN mixer. Instead of that, drop in a Doepfer A-138s. It has ACTUAL pan controls, instead of using the L+R jacks as "psuedo-pans". And you've got four VCAs prior to it, so level control to the stereo mixer will be possible. Put the FX Aid XL after that, then use its wet/dry control to add your effects to the final mix.

Smart stuff going on in here, though...the Octasource addition is spot-on, and the addition of ADDAC's Marble Physics is a huge generative plus. And the VCA complement is pretty much THERE...four up for audio, six down for modulation. The lower row might benefit from some attenuverters to invert things such as envelope signals, and there I'd suggest pulling the two 2 hp blanks and putting in a Fonitronic Cascade, which is a triple attenuverter + CV or audio mixer module. And for the last blank in the upper left, add a buffered mult as the destinations are approaching that "voltage sag possibility" zone. Or, use the existing Links for that function, yank the upper-left blank, slide everything up to the Kinks (also goes away) left, and drop in a SSF Tool Box to add a bunch of utility functions that'll be super-useful.

I know this is a modular forum and I should be talking up Eurorack, but sometimes the alternative is better.
-- plragde

Too true! This is the big reason why most of the users here don't try and build a drum section in a modular. Not only is that confusing, it gets VERY expensive very quickly, and you probably lose some of the functionality that's built into a good drum machine.

Decades ago, when TB-303s were screaming upward in price, a number of people tried to recapture the TB-303s lightning in a bottle. And largely, that never worked...mainly because none of these took the time to dissect how the 303 achieves its trademark sound. But users back then did, and here's what we found...

First of all, a big part of the 303 sound comes from the sequencer, and how it treats events such as the "glide", by having a gradual up or down slide until you hit around +/- 50 cents, then it quickly snaps up to the next pitch. It's a very WEIRD slew implementation, not at all symmetrical, and was part of why the TB-303 initially "failed". It just didn't sound good on bass like a bass guitar etc, which is how Roland was marketing it.

Next, the filter. It's weird. It's a 3-pole lowpass...18 dB, where we're used to 2-pole and 4-pole ones. Attempting to replicate the 303 sound with those VCFs, though, won't sound right...because the 303 doesn't sound "right" when used as Roland suggested. They never intended for the yowling ACIEEED sound to define the device...and when it was new, that sound wouldn't emerge for another 5-6 years, eventually coming to the fore with Larry Heard's first acid house tracks.

Third, the oscillator. Use dirt-simple waveforms...square or sawtooth. Anything more spectrally elaborate just doesn't sound correct. It was a big point of the "Devilfish" mods that you could set up a second oscillator, but it still kept these waveforms because it was recognized that changing those would take things away from that sound "zone" that the 303 resides in.

And lastly, Roland themselves. When the TB-303 failed spectacularly and what's estimated at THOUSANDS of units were landfilled, they adopted this inflexible policy that they would never, EVER reissue it. Even when used units were up above $2k. Instead, what we eventually got was:

The MC-303, which was more like a "techno home organ".
The TB-3, which...well, simply wasn't a 303 in the normal sense.
The "boutique" TB-03. Guys, using the same VA architecture with a different interface ultimately equals more or less the same soulless sound.

Then there's a LOT of clones of the 303, with some (Erica's Bassline, the Cyclone Analogic TT-303) getting damn close and others (Uli's first 303 attempt, pretty much ANY effort by Roland) that just didn't nail that sound. Disturbingly, though, B.'s redux of the TD-3 which incorporates many of the Devilfish mods...really DOES sound like a Devilfish-modded TB-303. The build quality makes me nervous there, though, as B. is going with a similarly cheap build method like how Roland made the original.

And then, there's another which doesn't SOUND like a TB-303 because the synth engine is algorithmic FM, and that would be the Sonicware Liven XFM. To me, this one seems like the actual win, as the sequencer behaves "properly" and yet you've got a totally different and potentially FAR MORE capable engine with the FM generation method. And amusingly, it's the second cheapest 303-alike (B's TD-3 is the winner there because...uh, B.'s cheaper build method is...well, it is what it is).

And if you dig complex timbres, there IS the Tiptop/Buchla 258t. Two of these, even better! They're a time-tested design, far less complicated to use than something like the Piston Honda while possessing the ability to get into VERY complex and shifting timbral content. And at $200-ish a pop...well, how can you say no?

and you are full of crap Next_G so buzz off
-- sacguy71

+1. Either contribute a way to avoid what you're talking about, or STFU.

I tend to leave mults out of my builds because, in smaller builds, they eat space. However, when I start heading to four rows and beyond (especially if the rows are over 104 hp), a couple of passives or so is a must. At that point, you're not "stealing space" from functional devices...you're adding something that'll make a large build easier to use.

And of course, once your destinations for a CV source go beyond 4-5 devices on the same CV, that's when you stick in a buffered mult, usually up by the VCOs.

And I've got more than that at my own disposal...and I STILL think the overuse of those mults is not the right way to proceed. And this is coming from about 40 years of work in this medium.

You're confusing the presence of equipment with the successful use of it. Just because Christophe Beck works this way does NOT mean that it's the proper method. Equipment != success.

EDIT: And also, the current approach wastes a bunch of space and money. Instead of popping in mults all over the place, use this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-utility-1-mix-mult This way, if you need to split off a bunch of buffered outs, they're all in this one module along with some unity-gain mixing capabilities. It's also only $211-ish, as opposed to the present approach, which comes in at around $365, and it only needs 12 hp to accomplish this instead of the current situation.

EDITED Nov 29th 2021, 04:41

Those are AUX inputs. A different-colored (black, here) collar around a jack is normally an output; jacks without that are generally inputs. Except here, for some weird reason. Annoying.

Also, it seems to me that this won't exactly "acid" because it's designed to do a lot of things the 303 wasn't. Ratcheting, for example. Instead of that, I would suggest this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/transistor-sounds-labs-stepper-acid This has the modulation outputs you want, plus it is...for all intents and purposes...an improved TB-303 sequencer with some extras. About the only thing it doesn't seem to have is a "random sequence" function (I might be wrong, though) to emulate the "take the batteries out" results.

The Metropolix is a great sequencer...but it shines best when doing Chris Franke-type sequencer manipulation. The Stepper Acid is a lot closer to what Larry Heard (aka Mr. Fingers) used on that very first ACIEEED track, "Washing Machine".

One other point about Maths: everyone uses it because the alternatives involve taking up even more space (quite a bit, in fact, in Eurorack) and still won't exactly do what Maths is capable of.

I actually DO have some things that can work in the same way...one of them is an EG&G Model 175 "Universal Programmer", another is a JAS arbitrary waveform generator with all analog controllability, and the last isn't workable right now because I need a tech that's not scared off by restoring and modding analog computers, and I've got three Systron-Donner 3300s that need to be refurbed into one fully-working one with synth I/O capabilities.

The latter weighs about 60 lbs and is the general size of a bedroom TV. The EG&G is bigger than most 1970s stereo receivers. And the JAS is SO rare and SO fiddly, I can't recommend it to anyone who's not got a lot of EE chops or doesn't have a soopergenius tech on hand. If you can find one, that is.

This is why Maths gets used all the time. It's not a "sheeple" thing at all...it comes down to the fact that it can do so much in only 20 hp. And if you've not seen it, here's MN's page on it...with what's really just a "basic" overview of the module: https://www.makenoisemusic.com/modules/maths Plus, it traces its lineage right back to Serge Tcherepnin and the famous Serge Dual Universal Slope Generator, so there's about 50 years of engineering and development there. Very hard to go wrong with that!

EDITED Nov 28th 2021, 03:13

have you already bought this? or is it just a 'dream' rack - because it looks like a nightmare!

-- JimHowell1970

+1. I'm looking at this, and I have literally NO IDEA what some of this is doing in here. Like, SEVEN mults? And three are buffered? Unless you're splitting a single CV off to 16 separate VCOs, this is bonkers. Spendy bonkers, at that!

If this isn't a troll (and I'll give everyone 3:1 odds that it is), just delete this thing and start over, preferably AFTER studying other experienced users' builds beforehand. And I'd also suggest this: https://vcvrack.com/ It's a free and pretty spot-on Eurorack emulator, hundred of modules (some by the makers on here, in fact), and a patching system that works just like regular ol' Eurorack. Mind you, it likes FAST processors and LOADS of RAM to really cut loose, but when it's got those, it's an incredible way to see what and how things work in modular.

One other thing I would suggest: get a patchable synthesizer. This is the lane in between prepatched synths and fully modular ones. And thanks to Voldem...uh...Uli, Behringer reissued a 2600 for the rest of us unconnected, poor slobs. And it's actually VERY spot-on; I know this from 40+ years of futzing around with them, v.2 thru the present de facto v.5. Build quality is beefy, as well...bears NO resemblance to typical B. quality. But this is a really good learning choice, as I and loads of others from back in the day will state that the ARP 2600 was THE teaching synth, and the only reason it stopped being that is mainly due to ARP's infamous Avatar fiasco and general mismanagement that tanked them by 1981. Plus...it interconnects with Eurorack, so that when you're REALLY ready to build, the 2600 and the Eurorack "speak the same language", namely 1V/8va scaling and positive gate/triggers, and you can use the 2600 as a "core" device for a bigger modular.

Lastly, it's $650, and contains pretty much zero potential for adding anything "wrong". Several months with that, plus studying builds and maybe getting a copy of "Patch and Tweak" (which'll give you some REAL ideas about what modules do and how to get them to do that...and MORE) would be a good idea as well. But don't do what's shown above, for the love of god. Take the time to study, work out ideas, and work with a patchable synth, and you won't regret it in the end.

Provided, I'll state once more, that this isn't a trolling attempt.

EDITED Nov 28th 2021, 02:55

Right...the idea they're working with is to develop a "universal" tile, something that works in both spaces and which can be screwed-down irrespective of hole spacings. If they can hit that mark...and I think they CAN...then they could make the tile dimensions open-source, allowing any manufacturer to use it. That would effectively end this ridiculous squabble; BOTH formats have very compelling modules, and I knew when I first heard that there was going to be this format split that it was going to cause problems...and it has. XODES is also working out the dimensions of a 3-row tile carrier that can handle both Intellijel and Pulplogic formats simultaneously.

I don't endorse this for the usual reasons: not every "influencer" on eBay is what I would call "authoritative", and just because they can build a dedicated rig in something the size of a Kleenex box does NOT mean that YOU can...or even moreso, SHOULD.

When Dieter Doepfer came out with the "beauty cases", he named them that for a reason. They're cute and all, but they don't have enough space to come up with a proper build...even a limited proper build in a lot of situations. What they're best at is to be used for "mission-specific" purposes, especially if you're pulling modules for that "mission" from a much larger system. They're LOUSY at being housing/power for full-on modular builds, though.

Secondly, I think I can run even odds on whether your first low-lighting gig with this build causes you to throw that thing against a club wall. The NE circuitry is good stuff...but the PANELS look like someone hurled up a stomachful of India ink and then poked at it with a dental pick to do the lettering. As of late, they ARE doing more sensible panels...but these earlier ones just look like hammered dogshit. Just try lowering the light in the room to typical venue levels, then try and patch/program that build above. You will go immediately berserk! Ain't kiddin'!

sacguy71 and I agree: get a bigger case for starters. And both of us would definitely suggest the Tiptop Mantis, which is quite portable (Tiptop even sells a dedicated gigbag for it!). And another good reason for this is:

Intellijel Palette 62 = 62 hp 3U, 62 hp 1U, powered (1200mA on the 12s, 500 mA on the 5) = $299

Tiptop Mantis = 208 hp total (2 x 104hp), powered (3000mA +12V, 1100 mA -12V, 300mA 5V) = $335

Also, not only does the Mantis make a lot more sense, Tiptop has a case coupler for the Mantis line...meaning that when it's time, you can slap a second Mantis onto the first one. Put the upper one almost straight-up, and the lower on its angled "feet", and you get excellent ergonomics. With a cab like that, you can keep extending the synth's module complement pretty painlessly. Use the Palette 62, and you're sort of stuck in that regard.

One other point about a bigger case...bigger case is friendlier to bigger modules, and if you intend to play this AND your axe at the same time, bigger is better. You sure as hell don't want to be twiddling tiny controls while playing...you want your major controls (VCF cutoff and resonance especially, as well as your main mixer) to have BIG knobs, stuff you can just reach out and GRAB without worrying if that's the VCF cutoff or something you'd not want to change. Better still, with a bigger cab you could add a CV faderbank for "immediate" controls without worrying about what you'd just grabbed in amongst all of those cables and knobs.

Also...who's to say that you WON'T want to plug the guitar into the synth? Eventually, that curiosity WILL hit you...and if there's no room for a proper input preamp + envelope follower (see the Doepfer A-119...probably the most popular of these), this ain't gonna happen. Again, this is part of the YT influencer problem...they aren't YOU, they don't have any idea of what YOU want to create, they have no idea of where YOU might want to go next, they're just faces on a screen that don't interact and which often have a (stated or, annoyingly, NOT stated) vested interest with the thing they're shoving in the camera. Create YOUR instrument...not copy someone else's...and it will do what YOU want. And for help, there's this joint right here, cuz we're about the farthest thing from "noninteractive" as it gets!

Wasp VCFs are great for leadlines...they have a very cutting sound that rips right thru the mix. Feed that something that's harmonic-rich (sawtooth, perhaps) and it'll shriek and yowl like the best.

The Three Sisters, though, is a different critter altogether. What it is is something between a bandpass filter and a formant-emphasis filter, which is useful for synthetic vocal sounds, which are usually the vowels as they contain all of the fundamental and formant spectra. But if it's not being produced (the listing doesn't show that as it's manufacturer-locked), there IS an alternative: https://www.synthrotek.com/limaflo-motomouth-formant-filter-eurorack/ Synthrotek's distributing these now, which I and others might consider problematic, but that's more or less the only game in town that'll get you into the Three Sisters turf.

This is something I would like to see IF people making listings can't be bothered to tell which format their tiles are in the original listings. Some do...you see some listings that clearly note that they're Intellijel format or Pulplogic format. And then, quite a few don't.

Frankly, what I would prefer to see is something like XODES's solution: a universal-sized tile panel with large U-cuts for screws instead of the little holes one normally sees. They did that right! If this could become the de facto tile panel standard, not only would it be convenient, it would put the final nail in this tile format dispute.

Case size for what you want to do...uhhh, no. Also, mixing Intellijel and Pulplogic tiles on the same row...also no. Hmmmmm......

Ah...that graphic isn't a link. However, I looked at the other builds you've got, and I've got a pretty good idea as to how to make this work...let's see now...

(Later): Hot damn...OK, here's what I cooked up. Notice the absence of the Mordax...if you're going to use this as a teaching tool, it makes far more sense to use an external dual-trace scope so that everyone can clearly see what's going on. The Mordax screen is just too small to do this effectively; been there, done that.

OK...this got upped by me into a 7U Intellijel Performance cab, because trying to do what you wanted here definitely requires more space. I put the "utility bar" in, also, so you can see the adders and buffered mults while sorting out what this will do.

Tile row: Stereo input (and output, also) comes in via the 1/4" jacks, of which there's four. Intellijel's input and output tiles all come with cables to internally connect those to the 1/4" jacks, so 1 and 2 could be your inputs, and 3 and 4 your stereo outs. The MIDI module goes after that, internally connected to the USB port. Then I put in a Noise Tools for noise, master clocking, slewing and sample and hold. QuadrATT is next for attenuverting, submixing, and the like. Then a Stereo VCA allows you to control the amplitude of an incoming stereo signal that would be patched to the Output Mixer's 1st pair, with a second (effects?) stereo in for a final "return" tap over the stereo mix, with the VCA controlling that return level.

First row: Now there's FOUR VCOs here...a pair of Klavis Twin Waves mkii dual oscillators, with internal quantizing and multiple methods of sound generation. Each VCO gets a Veils channel, then there's a digital complex VCO from Neutron Sound which gets two more Veils-topology VCAs. After all of that, there's a six channel stereo panning module for spatializing your oscillators. The stereo VCF is a Supercritical Neutron Flux, offering numerous filter topologies in one module. This is followed by a pair of LPGs, then we're into the effects with a Frequency Central Stasis Leak, which goes from a mono in to a stereo out for reverb, chorus, and a tap delay. After this is a Happy Nerding FX Aid, which is stereo in and out. The Stasis Leak is specifically intended for the Toppobrillo Stereomix2, as it also has (under CV control) a mono send and stereo return. You have CV over panning and level as well, making this your final set of audio path VCAs.

Second row: Rene with Tempi, hence no Pam's. Tempi and the mkii Rene have a backplane connection that makes them behave more like a single module while still allowing extra clock outs and the like. After the Rene is a Frequency Central Logic Bomb, which has CV-controlled Boolean gates. LFOs are via a 4ms Quad Pingable LFO, which is capable of working over a range from low-end audio down to crazy-long periods (as in 71 MINUTES)...that'll be super-useful in generative configurations. The Roti Pola and the second dual VCA provide mixing, inversion, and amplitude control over modulation signals. After that, we have the Quadrax + Qx combo, a Doepfer Dual ADSR, then a small clone of Clouds that can ALSO be patched into the audio path above.

This makes a lot more sense, I think. The bases are all present here, which you want in a teaching system. Plus the signal paths are a lot more sensible, with the separate row functions and the left-right flow. Not exactly the same design as before...but I think I managed to majorly improve on the first attempt.

EDITED Nov 27th 2021, 06:53

Cool beanz! Yeah, there had to be ONE out there somewhere!

I don't get the multiple buffered multiples, either. Or the need for two Pam's, as there's more potent methods for manipulating clocks and deriving Boolean gate sources to REALLY complicate the clock functionality.

As for the power question...yeah, this will be OK in that aspect. Note also that Eurorack uses three separate power rails: the + and -12V and the 5V rail which doesn't often come into play but is still necessary for certain digital modules. The only time the 12V rails MIGHT come together would be at a common P/S groundpoint, but they have different supplies on the "hot" side. But the rule of thumb for dealing with current inrush is that the P/S should be capable of supplying 20-25% MORE current than the module complement (roughly) requires, as getting too close to the current limit carries with it the danger that an inrush on switch-on could cause component damage.

One other point: this is really a rather small build, but there's a number of bigger modules in this. Naturally, this limits any further expansion in the case...but right now, it's locking you out of making adjustments to the module complement. This could be done a lot more effectively by trying to replicate the functions of those large modules in smaller ones...this should be possible. But also, some of this is simply redundant, like the thing with the Pams'.

Especially with the addition of the Tiptop-made Buchla stuff. Seriously, Don pretty much cooked up the idea of complex random signal generation/manipulation with the SoU, invented the LPG (back then, a wonderful and expressive mashup of a lowpass filter AND a VCA under optical control), and came up with the genesis of West Coast synthesis in general. Having those...plus the efforts to return the 100 series to use via Eurorack...majorly changes the Eurorack landscape.

Also, it's VERY possible here to break out "voices" from the top voicing row and then process them via the character filters alone, resulting in several more "voices" when you get to the mixer. And it's VERY oriented toward generative, if needed.

A better idea: get an adder module. These look like 2-4 hp mults, but what they actually do is to add two signals together. So you could send the signal and an offset voltage into one and get the composite signal you're looking for. Also, another mixer that you might have a look at is Erogenous Tones' LEVIT8, which can either be configured as an eight channel mixer/attenuator or two four-in mixers. To use this in that 8x1 configuration, you'd want to first route one signal each through something like this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/shakmat-modular-sumdif to put offsets on. At that point, you'd have a pair of adders with that Shakmat module, so if you also wanted to use the 2x4 config, that would be similarly doable. And if there's nothing you can use for the offset source, put one of these in: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/2hp-dc and there you go!

The fun thing with "Blackdance", though, is that Klaus went TOO FAR with the Compact A. There was so much out of phase signal that, if you summed the tracks down to mono, the lead line would completely disappear. Horrible engineering error...but Brain had this idea that they could put a bit on the jacket saying that you could listen in mono to "hear an interesting effect." Ha!

BTW, if "Blackdance" didn't click with you, check "X". That double set is astonishing...save for the fact that the CD reissue includes a really ugly live mangling of his "Ludwig II von Bayern" by a pickup orchestra that's no fun after you've heard the REAL version. Easily avoidable, thankfully.

NB Hendrickson is discontinued (& has been for a while) - maybe a few left in shops though
-- JimHowell1970

Easily fixable, though...just drop a Strymon AA.1 or Malekko SND/RTN into the Hendrickson's slot. 1 hp smaller in both cases, but that only takes $3 to fix with a blank.

could I somehow integrate my TR-8S with this setup? say using the Hendrickson? and then in turn somehow use the external IN on the TR-8S for the stompbox world?
-- jb61264

Hell, yeah! That's definitely one of the reasons for the Hendrickson...you can get anything you want OUT, and it'll come right back IN at the same place. An even CRAZIER device for stompboxes that you might dig is this little monstrosity from Electro-Harmonix: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TriParMix--electro-harmonix-tri-parallel-mixer Yep...three PARALLEL channels of stompers, with controllable routings, all fed from and going to the same mono I/O. To me, this is the REAL thing to use there, as you can put three different boxes on its send/returns and just go utterly NUTS. Not only do I have one and dig the hell out of it, it inspired me to create a LARGER and stereo parallel setup for my outboard effects, employing a Studio Technologies stereo 1-8 stereo distro amp for send splitting, and a Rane SM-26B stereo splitter/mixer to mix returns.

And if you don't have one, get one of these for the FX chain: aJkAAOSw5YFgr78b" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/324774960630?hash=item4b9e189df6aJkAAOSw5YFgr78b That monstrosity was a collab between E-H and the guy who founded Mutron way back in the early 1970s. It's a semi-clone of Mutron's Bi-Phase...of which I can guarantee you that you'll either never find one or you don't have the credit rating necessary to afford one. But also, this E-H phaser is about the only semi-available thing that can get into the utterly unobtainable Schulte Compact "A" turf. Just go listen to Klaus's "Blackdance" album, where you can hear the Compact "A" in all its glory. That's ALSO sort of the reason the Hendrickson's in there, tbh...500 lbs of 100% groovy Kraut sound, but available and AFFORDABLE. And no, you can't have mine.

Done! I opted for a total rebuild, since it seems that you're aiming more for ideas. So, this is actually in a different case, since I know what a PITA it is to haul buttloads of small boxes. I opted to redo the entire thing in THIS: https://reverb.com/item/38708935-15u-126-hp-84-104-hp-or-other-eurorack-portable-case-powered-modular-synthesizer-patched-reseal Case From Lake has this KILLER 126 hp x 5 cab with beefy Meanwells for about a grand, and it's small enough to still fit in an overhead compartment. Having the FIVE rows made the layout make a lot more sense, with the ability to get more space AND set up a coherent signal flow. So....

Note that all cased/powered devices have been removed.

ROW 1: Added a Doepfer A-119 for an external audio in + envelope follower. Then there's an Erica 2x4/1x8 buffered mult because we've got a load of stuff here that might need it. After that, a PAIR of Plaits is tandemmed with a Buchla 258t for loads of FM and klangy fun. These feed a Veils, with a VCA for each VCO out, and then this hits a Doepfer A-138s. After that set, you then have the 4ms Ensemble Oscillator feeding a Rossum Panharmonium...this combo will output one of the thickest, juiciest sounds ever. This goes through an After Later dual VCA based on the Veils topology, and after that is a second Doepfer A-138s. The second mixer is there in case you want to add ALL sources...send the first mixer's out to 1 and 2, then the 4ms/Rossum/After Later combo can go to 3 and 4, with a resulting stereo out combining ALL oscillator sources if desired.

ROW 2: This is envelopes and character filters. This row has a Manhattan x4 mult at both ends. Then you've got Erogenous Tones' awesome RADAR/PING combo. Imagine a multiple EG sequencer. Yeah. All eight of the EGs in the RADAR can be controlled from the PING...a really over the top AR generator! Zadar and Nin next...this is your "programmable" EGs, with four of those out. Then I put the Doepfer A-140-2 back so that you can have a pair of easily-tweakable ADSRs. Then, for character VCFs, I added a G-Storm Jupiter-6 clone, a Tiptop Forbidden Planet (Steiner Synthacon VCF clone...HOWLING leads!), a Doepfer HPF...and then, see that filter and the 2hp delay? They're the same thing, actually; the Doepfer A-106-1 is not only a clone of the Korg MS-20's Sallen-Key pair, it has a very eeeeeeeevil little addition: an INSERT in the resonance path, which is what the delay's there for. Imagine echoes that gradually get more and more lo-fi and glitchy. That. But the best is last: a G-Storm clone of the famous Syrinx VCF...which also has a 4-in mixer on front, so if you wanted, you could mix all four of those at the Gyrinx VCF and THEN impose all of these various formant spectra onto it via the Gyrinx.

ROW 3: Modulation and "main" stereo VCFs. Again, this row is bookended by those Manhattan mults. We start with the Disting, which I've positioned for use by a number of different control modules. Then the little Quad LFO from Doepfer, followed by your Batumi, which I've added the Poti expander to here. Then there's a Buchla 281t for not only 2-stage envelopes on loop or one-shot...but this can also output quadrature-shifted modulation. Twice, actually...two EGs per quadrature output. And why stop there with the Buchla stuff, so next is their 257t...one of the best CV manglers around. Then where the filters start, I put in that famous Buchla "ploonk" via a 292t Quad Lowpass Gate. As for the main stereo VCFs, I picked some winners: Intellijel's Morgasmatron and Mutable's Blades.

ROW 4: More Buchla-in-yer-face! This starts with the famous Buchla Source of Uncertainty, which includes noise, sample and hold, and of course all of Don's wild randomness voodoo. The Marbles clone follows this, as it might be fun to generate even further randomization of already-randomized CVs. Generative? Hellz yeah! Logic's next, then the 4-1 sequential switch, and after that is Klavis's CalTrans, a quad quantizer. Since the sequential switch can either go 1 to 4 OR 4 to 1, this lets you choose if you want to switch between single input sources, or to switch four signals across one output. I opted to follow that with Intellijel's Shifty, a quad analog shift register...this replaced the arpeggiator, as you can do things like that with this module, or just go totally off and ping CVs all over the place. The MISO actually is part of the row 3 complement, but I put it down lower for better tweaking and because the space simply wasn't there in row 3. It's a killer polarizer/mixer/scrambler for modulation. Then I put in a Veils clone (due to space limitations) for some modulation-dedicated VCAs. After that are effects, starting with the Gristleizer VCF (I couldn't make the TG VCA go in there, sadly), then the Soma dual delay, and then your Microcell. The row closes out with the full FX Aid.

ROW 5: Sequencing and control. This starts with the Tempi/Rene combo. Those two modules are designed to work together via backplane connections, and replicate the primary functions of the Pam's while, at the same time, offering a 4 x 4 pad sequencer/controller. I put the dual VCS after that so that you can bounce around the Rene outputs, etc easily. The Steppy follows this, providing clocked sequential pulses over four channels (and you'll notice how close it is to the Doepfer sequential switch...hint hint). This is then followed by the triple switch, letting you scramble between sources. Given the amount of sequencing and clocking, this set of switches can function as a sort of sequential source router if needed...aside of a bunch of other possible things. Then I went all in on the random sequencer with the next-gen Turing Machine, a full version of the Greyscale Permutations. After this, there's eight exponential VCAs to act as the "front ends" for the final mixer, where I opted for one of Jim's faves, the Tesseract TexMix series...in this case, a pair of mono input modules and the master module. This not only gives you eight mono channels, you have two mono AUX sends and two stereo returns, plus a master fader and your headphone preamp. Using this, you can parallel the effects over the mix, instead of being reliant on the 'wet/dry' controls. And last but not least, Happy Nerding's Isolator, which gives you transformer isolation from external crud AND a transformer that you can hit a little harder so that you get that tasty "big iron" sound.

No power supplies? Right. This CFL sucker has that more than covered. Need more? Have CFL toss another Meanwell in that thing. And of course, this follows an up-left/down-right pattern, which has the modulation and CV coming up from the left side, with the audio going back down toward the TexMix on the right via the VCFs. And if it seems that this is a little underequipped, keep in mind that you can always break out the character filters as mono devices and send them on to the TexMix.

This isn't bad...and given that I also made it portable (yeah! 15U and portable!) means that you've now got a potent boxful of stuff and things that you can fold up and tote yourself. So, that's how I would approach this as a full rework.

Got out the clawhammer and had a go....

In this case, you won't see any I/O between the synth and the modules, save for the Links which is still there for final redistribution of signals with multiple destinations, etc. Since this is intended as an extender for the Minibrute2, I left that out altogether.

So...P/S, Pam's, XODES logic (for screwing around with Pam's, etc), and the Disting. But then, I added a quadrature LFO, which will allow you to have modulation curves that "chase" or "cancel/invert" simultaneously with the normal output. And for screwing with modulation, the Buchla 257t...when it comes out in a few months...is just what this calls for. After that, three linear VCAs for modulation and other control signal amplitude control, then there's an SSF Ultrafold for messing with both CV/mod AND audio. Warps and Beads follow, then I put in a Bastl Hendrickson which now gives you a stompbox send/return path for the build...leaving you with almost infinite options for audio scrambling. And then at the end, Links.

As a synth in of itself...well, it's not one. But as an extension complement for the MB2...oh, hell yes. Everything here plays nicely with the MB2's patch I/O levels, so what I designed was JUST an extender...but a really capable one. This'll take that synth right on into WTF? territory pretty easy-like!

I have an Acid labs Chainsaw polyphonic module sorta on the way. What modules would you recommend to pair up with it to get maximum benefits? I have a sequencer, function/lfos and things like that for it.
-- sacguy71

This: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/feedback-106-chorus Supersaw-type waveforms + some good chorusing = DREAMY!

Because Ladik has a pretty small operation, for one. Plus, by direct sales, Ladik doesn't need to do any markup for distribution and the like, so the module prices come out as low as they do by avoiding that. Given the choice between a direct order and going through the erratic shipping channels right now, I'd take the former.

And yeah, shipping is SCREWED at present, and it ain't about those ships off LA. I ordered some 25' snakes and Sweetwater said they'd be here today. Are they? No. Currently, they're stuck at FedEx's Indy facility, and have been since Saturday. And this has happened before this year with Sweetwater shipments.

The strategy that seems to work best is to put up the highest price (assembled, in other words), but list the modules as both kit and assembled, then the majority of MG users will get that the stated price is for the prebuild. You never want to pay MORE money...but paying LESS? That's a different story!

My big take on them is that, now that we've got proper basic modules turning up as tiles, you could cram multiple VCOs into a space meant for one...or you can pile up a few of Pulplogic's Cyclic Skews, even cascade those via the EOR patchpoint. $200-ish for a triple LFO/EG/slew limiter? Yes, please!

USB tends to have better transmission rates when sending MIDI over that, as opposed to the much narrower bandwidth of MIDI. One or two synths, doesn't matter. But in THIS environment, anything that can do MIDI over USB is getting connected to the USB. It reduces the piles of cables needed, plus it's a little easier to get things sent/received from USB piped to the right destination, and no meaningful latency "gagging" from overtaxing the MIDI signal.

“two BSP’s” = 2 Arturia Beatstep Pros yes?
-- nickgreenberg

Yep. The setup I have actually makes the ergonomics work, too. I'll show you how...

There are two 8U slanted carpeted racks at the rear of this part of the "modular sandbox". One contains the B.2600. The other contains the MOTU 828 mkii, Korg SDD 3300, Zoom 9120, a quad Symetrix gate, and two 1/4" patchbays. Then on top of those is the 22sp Digisound 80, with my two MS-20 Minis on stands for a forward tilt at the very top.

First up, the KSP. It fits perfectly on this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HFDJCSL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 and that way, it's not ON the desk, it's UNDER it and I can pull that out when it's needed. Easy access to the jackfield on the back, too!

Next, the BSP stand. Since these angled racks have some "dead space" at the bottom, there's a space where there's just the shell of the case. So in front of that, I placed the BSPs on one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079CBMCJS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Looks simple, isn't expensive, and it accommodates two BSPs perfectly.

The MS-20 mini stands are these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SS9996G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Basic, generic laptop stand that tilts the synths forward to make access easier, as this thing's a bit tall.

And as for the racks, I endorse the HELL out of these: https://prospeakerparts.com/collections/rack-cases-carpet-covered-2f Direct to the customer sales, great shipping and turnaround, and these are built like the proverbial brick shithouse. They ain't no joke! Plus, when you compare the prices with similar Middle Atlantic or Raxxess/Chief models, you make out like a bandit with these guys.

EDITED Nov 22nd 2021, 02:30

Yuppers. And I should also note that these machines (in my case, a 909 and two 606es) were crazy-useful LIVE, no DAW...in the mid-1990s. The ability to send triggers to various other devices and even mess with the timing/rhythm of those in real time was very freeing. And then, of course, the bass channel of the 909 also provided a good source for the building-damaging CZ-101. I actually used that same configuration for a number of live sets in the 90s.

Yep! Those XODES tile carriers are a great idea done really well. You can even get them with BOTH tile formats in one carrier! And since tiles are now appearing with deeper functionality, these should hopefully see some action.

Thanks Lugia, good to know. I hope the replacement does what it's supposed to.
-- Mazz

It probably should. This brings up the point that if something electronic is going to fail, those failures tend to happen at or within a few days of initial power-up. I recall getting a HUGE (21" monochrome) CRT monitor for my first serious machine (Mac IIcx), plugging it in to check it with the computer, then I went downstairs in the grad housing to check on laundry.

When I got back, there was this humming noise. Smelled like ozone in there, too. And the monitor was off...? No, it was NOT off, and when I looked through the grille on the case, I could see various sparks popping around. Immediately unplugged its power, then disconnected it from the Mac. But that happened within the first hour of power-up, necessitated an immediate replacement.