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A bunch of my stompboxes see duty as percussion manglers. One you should seriously look at is some sort of auto-wah...on snares, these work great with a very fast attack and release, adding a quick filter sweep to the drum sound. I've gotten deep into the Chinese stompbox thing, and one bunch of sellers I've had a great time with are what I refer to as the "Brantford Pedal Mafia", aka a number of sellers in Brantford, ONT in the same general family who all deal in pedals AND who have inventories in both the USA and Canada, which makes things easy for quick shipment. You'll find the "Kingpin", aka mec.2009 at https://www.ebay.com/sch/mec.2009/m.html
I've been meaning to get a Quadrax, but I wonder how it reacts to the EI CV inputs. Maths gets shut down completely when you plug it into this module.
-- mntbighker
"Shut down" how, exactly? A module like Maths shouldn't simply shut down when you patch it up.
Thanks for the replies y’all, much appreciated. lol I’ve had a feeling that 84hp would not be nearly enough. Definitely switching to a case I can “grow into”.
-- Eros222
Generally, the rule of thumb on first cabs is that you should set up for a MUCH BIGGER build than you think you'll need...because when you're starting out, it's actually more likely to be too small. So if you thought that 1 x 84 was enough, the 2 x 104 of a Mantis is probably what you should be using. Then, if you think the resulting build is just too much, you can more easily pare the module complement BACK. And this tends to be an easier task than ripping it all down to do different subsequent 1 x 84 builds to get things right.
Well, right off the bat here, there's two modules that are either discontinued or have supply chain issues with essential parts. These are the Grids (discontinued) and the HN 3xVCA (delayed due to no VCA chips). The Piston Honda might also fit there, as there was a great deal of confusion in the past couple of years as to whether or not The Harvestman's designs were going to remain available, and even though it lists as being in production here, this is one that either may require a possible substitute or you could simply go with a different wavetable oscillator. I wouldn't have gone with a Pam's here, either...given that the Rene mkii and the Make Noise Tempi have backplane connections that step up both of their games.
As for the layout, it's actually pretty user-hostile. I could whomp out a new iteration of this, but some of the module choices that've already been made are ones that ultimately contribute to that problem. Definite examples are the older Noise Engineering modules (fairly illegible panels...no fun at all if you're playing live and in a dim light situation) and the Zlob modules (same problem overall + very tight layouts).
Lastly, if there's a definite industrial spin to this build, I don't see anything that can really smash sounds up to get them into a more brutal area. For more industrial percussion, also, I would suggest Moffenzeef's modules, or something more synthetic that then gets run through one of Schlappi's audio manglers. Remember: back in the early days of Industrial, people were using a bunch of Roland stuff that they'd then munge up, and those Rolands were the more electro-sounding ones (TR-808, CR78, etc). Given that, you may actually find it MORE useful to get hold something along those lines, as the end result costs far less than trying to build drums into a Eurorack build, plus you get a lot of space in the cab back by doing this. It also helps that there's reissues of many of these, such as the Roland Boutique series or Uli's clones of the original 808, 909, and 606.
I think the Mantis is probably the best "starter case" at present. It has loads of current reserve from a tried and true P/S design (taken from the uZeus), it's portable while having ample module space, and it's got a really snazzy method for adding a second Mantis. Tiptop even offers a gig bag sized for it.
In that case they showed on the preview videos are about 20 Modules and i am not sure if thats all they plan to do. So thats the first 4 K (with an average module price of 200 which is a low estimate).
-- znort101
Uhhhhh...no. There are ONLY SIX modules in the initial Tiptop run. And there's only nine modules in that Mantis above.
And a price point of $200-400 makes perfect sense here, tbh. For one thing, Tiptop's been around for a long time, so they have the know-how to keep that price down. Secondly, these don't have the "e bus" that allows for remembering the control (but NOT the patch itself) positions, which is a big part of why those 200e 4U modules cost like they do. So what these are are Don's "post-CBS" designs from the early/mid-1970s, meaning that they can use cheaper and readily available components, they can use board fab automation instead of hand-stuffing boards, high-speed panel manufacturing and graphics, and so on to replicate these older Buchla modules.
Another possibility: a Quadrax + Qx. By chaining the EOR points on the Qx to each next EG and proceeding to loop things back from EOR on the 4th EG to the start on EG 1, you get this constant "strum"...with voltage control by using CV over the "attack" (in this case, it's referred to as "rise") so that you can make the "strum" longer, shorter, or more/less erratic. Works nice with VCAs, too...like having a Veils on a complex VCO with numerous waveform outputs.
I definitely agree on the "larger case" suggestion. Also, don't expect to get much done with a Maths and a Rings, as there's not really a proper "generator" in that signal path. You can force the Rings into self-oscillation, but then it's a PITA to control. Conversely, you could try clocking the Maths up into the audio range...if there was an LFO that could serve as a clock in the first place.
You could proceed into a second Cre8 skiff by joining it to the first with their case coupler...but then you've got an issue in that you've got two sets of the case's I/Os, and you really only want one. Nor can you interconnect the busses from one case to the other without wasting functional space in both. Sure, they've got good current specs...but you'll be better off building that build "that is versatile that I can explore sound with" in a case that has space for that to happen.
One other suggestion: https://vcvrack.com/ This is a link to VCV's site, and what VCV is is a "Eurorack emulator". This will let you do a lot of exploring (up to the limit that your computer can handle) and getting used to what proper synths should have to let them do what they're capable of. And it's FREE, plus later you can upgrade to a paid version that includes a VST plug to use VCV directly within your DAW.
Should. The nice thing about this being Tiptop doing the reissues is that their lines are carried all over the planet. Not quite up to the level of Doepfer (ie: just dig up your backyard and you stand a chance of finding a Doepfer module!), but they're definitely on a roll.
Out of curiosity, does anyone use headphones out of their AI?
I almost exclusively use monitors for mixing, but curious if studio headphones are ok for just playing around?
-- cj18
They're OK for basic sound design, but I know for a fact that mixing on headphones brings in some bad issues having to do with the "actual" soundstage vs. what your brain makes up as a "soundstage" from the two headphone drivers. Check this for the actual physics and voodoo: There ARE ways to correct this issue with hardware though, but the ones that actually work aren't cheap. In essence, doing a final mix on "cans" is just a really bad idea, as they can't give you a REAL idea of what's going on spatially. And we didn't even get into human hearing's proximity effects when dealing with having a driver within an inch of your inner ear. That can easily give you a very wrong impression of how your low end sounds.
Stick with the actual monitors. You can always get a monitor mix to "translate" to headphones, but going the opposite way has a lot of issues.
I also notice that the signal flow in this is sort of all over the place, and not in an arrangement that's more intuitive. Lemme tinker with this a bit...
OK...see how this feels:
What I did here was to restructure the layout. Nothing added or removed. Your "voicing" is up top, modulation and Rings on #2, drum and random on #3 on the left, FX on the right, and all of the control on the bottom. Also, the two 4 hp Doepfer mixers that are in row #3 are unused in this.
In case it's not apparent, the top row has your buffered mult (yes, you do have enough CV destinations!) then the STOs and Plaits. This is followed by your Quad VCA to give you level control over the oscillator signals. Then the Telharmonium has its own Veils to control the three outputs it has. If there was a quadrature source in here, you could hook it up so that the Veils could "strum" through its outputs. Fold is next (and since it has two inputs, try sending the VCA outputs to the Fold inputs!), Wasp VCF is next, and the Polaris after that, with one of the small Doepfer mixers functioning as a summing mixer for the various VCF outputs. From there, you could go on to an effects device in row #3, or you could use Rings as a final "filter-ish" device before FX. Lots of potential...it just needed to be a bit more visible.
It sounds utterly horrible on some of those settings...which means it's GREAT!!! Some of those overloads sound suspiciously like the sort of thing that I can get out of my PAR CR-4A, which is interesting as it contains the exact same op-amp circuitry as the ARP 2500 via some classic pre-ARP Nexus Research potted secret-sauce modules designed by Alan Pearlman in his pre-synth days.
Industrial and noisier EDM types are gonna dig this...
Well, the rep I was communicating with said we'll see the first two "around the first of the year". My guess is that they're aiming for a pre-NAMM launch of those so that they can say "we've got these now...and here's what's coming".
Nice...the only thing that immediately comes to mind here is that the buffered mults aren't necessary. There's not enough CV destinations to justify them, and in something this small you'll want to use stackcables or inline mults instead. However, what I would suggest as a substitute is, as far as reverb goes, the sort of thing that fits into a Buchla-esque rig that's got tiles: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/intellijel-multi-fx-1u It gives you a mono-in/stereo-out processor that does reverb, chorus, and delay. Chorus isn't so Buchla-y, but the other two...yeah.
I've got to agree with plragde above...explore what you have until you absolutely know where the gaps are. I did do a quick reordering of what you've got, though:
In this rework, I split the modulation off from the "voicing" path. For one thing, it puts the non-audio modules next to the uZeus, so that you won't have to worry about induced crud from the P/S getting into the audio end of things. Then the audio comes in with the Waveforms VCO and runs all the way down to the final mixer. Otherwise, this is how a small build can and should work. No surprises, no "Sexy" modules...just very basic stuff with nothing odd about it, with a good amount of usability for exploration AND learning.
I will...Igor replied to me that Cool Audio wasn't making their chips anymore
-- jb61264
OK, now THAT'S disturbing. Cool Audio is, basically, Uli. There's one of two possibilities...
1) Tribe is depending on the same chip fabs in China that ALSO have the production lines snarled for any number of things from cars to appliances. If this is the problem, then it's a big one.
2) Uli's squandering the chips for his own production lines since there ARE serious supply issues going on, and Tribe needs to keep their factories going.
My bet is that the truth consists of parts of both of those possibilities.
You might let them know that it might be worth their time to dig around eBay for a while. It's possible that they can find some NOS ones...there's been a bunch of components on reels turning up as of late.
I'd just trust the Doepfer's OEM supply. Dieter's worked for many years on working out the PERFECT Eurorack supply, and the current revision of his big supplies are pretty spiffy.
Plus, if you've got concerns about hum and switching supply noise, there's other ways to fix that...namely, ferrites.
Ferrites are small bits of formed iron (and other metals) that are used to kill crap on DC lines. They're more common in RF applications, but they're relevant here, too. Have a look: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-csb31-275-10 Now, how you'd use these in a modular is to kill crud before it gets into the DC busses. So, with each DC leg coming off of the P/S, you would take that wire, loop it around the inside and outside a couple of times, then snap it closed. That'll kill switching noise as well as sizable amounts of DC ripple.
Now, to avoid the hum issue...in this case, this is important if you do any live gigs, where you don't know how the grounding circuits work (if at all!) in order to dodge ground loops. It's also useful for killing crud that might be sneaking in via the outputs from a mixer/faulty cable/god knows what. And that device is this, or something along the same lines: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/happy-nerding-isolator. This is perhaps the simplest implementation of that...but simple doesn't equate to unusable in this case. Rather, the internals in that module offer ground lifts, transformer isolation, and a ganged "master out" control. Mind you, if you do work in a studio in some place that has balanced power, this can still have some uses from hitting its transformers with a bit hotter signal, which then gives you some nice, warm, "big iron" saturation.
Lastly, your bus boards should be the filtered variety. Not only does this help with external crud, these can help keep module leakage signals under control to some extent. Granted, if you've got one rogue module that INSISTS on dumping RF junk into the rest of the synth, they're not apt to deal with that...but then, if you've got a module that IS doing that, you should probably have it looked at or swap it out for a different one.
And by now we all know that you don't like small systems.
-- Quantum_Eraser
Which isn't true. It's not that I "don't like small systems". What I don't like is the mistaken concept that you can cram an entire full-on modular into a small case...mainly because it's not true. Or rather, it CAN be true, but the build will require a pile of 4 hp and down modules. In theory, that could be playable, but the experience of playing it would be pretty awful due to having to snake your fingers around the patchcables, the tightly-placed knobs, and all of the plugs.
Fact is, I have a Palette 104 setup in my own builds on here, but it's a "mission specific" one for adding some more complex modulation + mod manipulation to other modular gear in here later on. Plus, the 104 hp + 104 hp of tiles is ample space to allow me to directly address module controls by having larger modules in that case. But by no means would I consider it a "complete modular system"...because it isn't, and isn't supposed to be that in the first place.
The "Point" is this: here on the forum, there's been a bunch of people who've put together these super-tight builds and then figure they'll be perfect for their every musical purpose. Then when these pop up, a number of us on the forums will let that user know the basic truth about this nearly-impossible thing. That's not a dislike...it's informing a user that their build isn't going to work as expected, and that they might want to rethink things before dropping $$$ on something they're almost certain to dislike after working with it for a while. Nothing about this being my "dislike" there; rather, it's just another way of putting across the point that it makes sense to "use a case that you're SURE is larger than you want the synth to be...because you'll find that it wasn't too large in the first place".
Well, there was a more to-the-point response to this, but MG's user login sabotage system ate it, so I'll try and paraphrase as best as possible.
Basically, go back and watch the first five minutes of your clip. Not from the mindset of the person who created it, but from that of some new-to-modular viewer. Is what you see going on something that clearly imparts the point you're trying to make, or is it something that's more likely to confuse them? And why I say only the first five minutes is very much related to how things work in the publishing and A&R realm: if you can't grab a listener by the ears with your track in 30 seconds or less, then you've got a problem.
See, you already know what you're doing. And that's fine...a lot of us do. But I see the importance of trying to educate beginners, and I know (from experience) that information imparted clearly is what's necessary when any of us put on that teacher hat. And what I saw simply wasn't accomplishing that. You're showing off a patch, but if I can't figure out what's going on because of all of the superfluous patch cords and stuff laying around, then that's likely to be a problem to someone with ZERO experience with these instruments.
Another thing that I think we all know is that it's impossible to build a complete system in a "beauty case", to borrow Dieter's term. You can certainly TRY...but either one of two things results: they either wind up with modular that DOES WORK, but which is an ergonomic nightmare, or they've spent sizable funds on something they thought they saw in a YouTube clip but which they've gotten wrong, so they've wound up with a costly noisemaker that's more likely to sit in a closet until the next geological epoch. And these tiny case builds are a huge issue on here, especially right now as there's a bunch of people who've seen YT videos, then think they can do this too, when in fact they can't. I think you'll agree that situations like that don't help either of us.
And there have been a lot of similar clips on the platform in the past year-plus, it would seem. Some are informational...but as a rule when the first thing that turns up is some tiny cab, this won't be about education. It's more of a "flex". And setting users off on an expensive tangent because they see a tiny build and they think they can build one, too...that's also not helpful. Sometimes, they DO ask for advice/help...but apply the "disgruntled customer" approach: for every one complaint you DO hear, there's nine that you DON'T.
So, YouTube. True, there's some very good presenters on there. But when I see a patch being demonstrated in a situation where there's a bunch of superfluous patchcords just laying around as visual clutter, that's annoying. To see it done without anything else in the clip is how you would approach this. Otherwise, what you have here is, at best, confusing; beginners shouldn't have to figure out what patchcords are "live" and which are "set dressing". And in a situation such as YouTube, where I know of one prolific YTer that was side-addressing an EV RE-20 in a number of their clips because...I guess?...they figured that you do that with ALL "big microphones", it's a good idea to look at a LOT of what's on there and ask:
"If I'm just beginning, does what I see help me or harm me?"
If there's any question about the latter, then it's probably time to retool what/how you're doing this. Especially if you're looking at the "harm me" part and questions DO arise.
Now, in my case, I came into that video clip cold. I try to work with a blank slate when checking these out. But when I saw a number of things right off the bat that tossed up quite a bit of what keeps turning up...and which I know causes problems for beginning modular users, of course I'm going to be displeased. But it's no "galaxy brain takedown", to use your words. Rather, it's concern for those starting out who might watch this and become convinced that they need one of those little modulars, so they DON'T get on MG and research...they get all amped up, then they hop on Perfect Circuit or whatever and buy stuff. Then they put it together, patch it up...and of course, nothing desirable happens. It's gotten better...but during parts of the last year, it seemed as if every day brought in someone else who'd gone in that direction and was now seeking a way to, in effect, "polish a turd". As noted above, this isn't musically productive nor useful.
I can understand that it's easier to present a concept in a distilled-down state. But given that many of these new users are actually looking for starter rigs, it would seem more sensible to present concepts on a proper (as in, in a Mantis or, at the bare minimum, a Palette104) build, if only to show what a beginning system can and should look like when you've patched the example up. Just a few onscreen graphics...if even that...would help to show what's going on, and if done right, you won't need to provide a link to the patch because it was presented in a clear and straightforward manner. And, hopefully, presented so that new users can see that the same patch can be taken in various other directions, and how that would work. That would be a method of realistically presenting that information, as opposed to a "special case" situation which could cause confusion for new users. And if you think there's no confusion about this...well, spend a couple of weeks on here over the holidays and see how often the "beauty case" problem rears its head. It's annoying and disturbing, and it does more to confuse than inform.
Again, when you or I or anyone presents a concept on YouTube, it's essential to put on your "teacher's hat". Keep asking yourself as the camera rolls whether you're helping or not. If not, that's why editing software exists. But it IS a dichotomy you (and others) need to remember when presenting something to viewers that might only have a skeletal view of what to do, so you need to approach this as if you have a class of students in front of you. That's pretty much the actual situation, anyway. And if I (or anyone else) click off your clips at 5-ish minutes, it's not "self-important judgement" that's at play, but me asking the same questions above and finding that, no, that's not exactly helpful. The big difference here is that you got to hear about my objections; how many objections do you not hear, however? Or worse, how many viewers came away with the wrong ideas in mind? That one, you don't and can't know.
Sure, I probably did get the wrong impression about your video. But then, how I arrived at that impression is what you need answered. So, re-read this in a more "neutral" mindset, put that hat on, and re-watch the clip in question. My objections should be pretty apparent pretty quickly.
OK...banged on this a whole bunch. A few things were removed (the unbuffered mult, the Mutant Brain, the PipSlope, the 2hp mixer, the headphone tile, and the Stages) and much thrashing around ensued. The result is:
I treated this as a total fill-out, so that you can get some ideas. Although, it would be quite possible to assemble exactly that above and have a really stonkin' instrument.
TILES: Stereo IN, then the MIDI interface (freed up 8 hp in the 3U stuff), Steppy, a DuATT for mixing/attenuversion, a stereo (mono in) chorus/reverb/delay, then the Stereo OUT.
TOP ROW: Konstant Labs PWRchekr to keep an eye on your DC rails health. Then a buffered mult, as this borders on the edge of necessary due to new CV destinations. Odessa + expander next, then the NE oscillator, and after that, two MORE oscillators with internal quantization. Then the Moddemix (hence the two new oscillators...you can feed one each as carrier sources to a ring mod, or toss them at each other in a single ring mod). Also, note the quantization on the Twin Waves; it also has a clock input to step the quantizing, so you can use a single clock signal for that while it reads something like an LFO to create all sorts of tesselations. Veils follows for VCAs, then your MUM filter is after that for a mono voice. And there's a stereo mixer after this (which is where the voicing goes to stereo) which allows you to pan/mix all four of the VCAs if necessary. And out the other side of that, I put in a Bastl Ikarie, which is a rather neat stereo state-variable VCF to filter the stereo signal. Last is the Typhoon...note where that is, it's important later.
BOTTOM ROW: Pam's, then a Frequency Central Logic Bomb. Now, since you mentioned wanting to mess with generative methods, that Boolean Logic pair has the ability to generate many screwy/complex patterns from the Pam's, the Steppy, and really, all over the place in this. Then the two following modules are for CV "pickoffs"; the Comparator looks at two incoming values and then sends a gate depending on which signal level is where in relation to each other. And the Derivator is for reading CV movement and sending appropriate gates depending on that. Again, these can ALSO bounce off of the Logic Bomb. Erica PICO RND provides noise and other random outputs for the Pachinko...which is actually a smaller clone of Marbles. I tried using the Mutable module...but it was too big here. After that, a Batumi/Poti combo provides four LFOs, then there's a Frap 321 and Happy Nerding 3xVCA, which makes for a good pair of modulation alteration modules. Then a Quadrax with the Qx expander provides four AR or ASR envelopes. But by combining the LFOs and the EGs via the 321, you get even MORE modulation signals, and then the VCAs can control the amplitude of those. And then...a PROPER mixer. The Toppobrillo Stereomix2 gives you four mono input channels with CV over level, pan, AUX send, a CUE bus, mutes per channel, and a mono-send/stereo-return. Oh, and this is where the headphone preamp is now...PLUS it has the ability to be switched to CUE for spot-tuning, etc on the fly while the rest of the mix bubbles along. And this is why the Typhoon and the effect tile are in that general area...you can run them parallel via the AUX loop, or straight-through from the Stereomix2's outputs to the Typhoon and then to the OUT tile.
Now THAT'S an interesting build. It has generative functions (more than I've mentioned here, in fact), it can be MIDI controlled or not via USB, it has isolated I/O via the case's 1/4" jacks, and the whole thing's shot full of easter egg-ish functions from tandemming modules or functions hiding within modules. So...this is what you can potentially get when you mash the skiffs together and then looking at how to complement ALL of those modules with additions and a few subtractions.
Ahhhh...THERE'S the problem. One of the uMIDI listings was set up by Intellijel...who locked it. The other one (NOT set up by Intellijel) has the actual information.
This is a running MG problem. The only way to fix it (that's doable, really) would be to get into their account and UNlock it. Then it would be possible to change the module's status, but any sensible Internet site like MG doesn't go around hacking into user accounts. Other solutions are apparently much more complex and could screw things up. Ultimately, it comes down to makers paying more attention to what's technically THE modular database online. Hell, Arturia even posts the website's link in their synth manuals!
Reverb's a good choice. Other places I would suggest are Thomann, Schneidersburo, Detroit Modular, Noisebug (used stuff). Or you could just skip all of that and go with Sweetwater...which DOES have these in stock.
I use a Zoom ST-224 Sampletrak, myself. Nice device, can run a number of loops without synchronization of different lengths, ergo I use it for backdrops. The constantly varying VLF and shortwave noises throughout this work are all running on the Zoom: https://daccrowell.bandcamp.com/track/umi-no-kami-ni-kansha
Other than that, which is pretty different from looping as shown here, I do all of the rhythmic loopwork in Ableton Live. And theoretically, there's several other devices in here that can also serve as looping devices, and technically I can get signals from the modular "sandbox" to the other side of the room for control (if I don't use MIDI SYSEX for it, that is).
I'm also in the "study phase" of a work that's more for installation purposes which will use my Akai S6000 to play numerous LONG loops, ala "Music for Airports," but more complex in timbral diversity. I don't think I can get that working until I refit the sampler with a Gotoh or Nalbantov FD-to-digital media device, as the longest loops here will be up to around 10 minutes, and these add-on devices enable storage in the hundreds of gigabytes.
About the only thing that I would suggest is to move the output tile to the right end. This shortens the length of internal wiring needed to connect it with the 1/4" jacks, which helps avoid induced noise from your power electronics. Then another tile to add might be Intellijel's Dual VCA, so that you can have CV control over the output, putting that right next to the output.
Yup...the rule goes something like this: "Always go with a cab (on MG or in real life) that you KNOW is too large...because in all likelihood, it's not." Going with a bigger cab from the start allows you to have better ergonomics, too. While people with small skiffs packed with tiny knobs struggle to control their rigs, someone with a bigger case can have bigger modules, and bigger modules = better ergonomics. When you want that filter sweep, you DON'T want to kick up the LFO speed, change VCO tunings, and other set-ruining nonsense that could be avoided...you just want that sweep!
Gee-whillikers! I don't have a looper sitting with my modular, so I guess I'm just not hip and with it anymore.
Bollocks. OK, let's dig into what's going on here...
Why look, he's using a little skiff, so those must be the way to go...right? So...look more carefully, and you'll notice a couple of stompboxes, some additional things (including an Apex tile...uncased, far right) and the RC-505. Said RC-505 also has internal FX, too. So the synth isn't exactly doing what it's capable of alone. The patch is also difficult to sort out, mainly due to slinging patch cables all over the place so that you (and quite possibly, the presenter) can't really tell how things are routed.
Also, one of the links in the "more videos" bar shows the same little Intellijel skiff used for...generative? Maybe so, but probably not. Generative patches are ones which have a LOT of crossmodulation and internal patch alteration in order to generate non-repeating patterns across SEVERAL voices so that the synth is spinning out a sonic result that is in constant flux. Doing this in a tiny skiff is just not going to cut it; it would be the equivalent of hooking up a noise source to a sample and hold to a VCO and saying that that was "generative".
And therein lies another problem. If there was sufficient space in that Palette, the YouTuber would do FAR BETTER by fitting a Bitbox, Squid Salmple, STS, GXN, Rample, and so on into the cab because those can be directly controlled/modulated by sources within the build itself. But there's NOT...so we get to deal with a big, clunky Boss box that takes up about as much space as...
...wait for it...
...another Eurorack case. WHYYYYYYYYY!?!?!?!?!
OK, I'll calm down. But also, the thumbnail for this YT clips screams "clickbait", and that alone should be sufficient warning. If someone on YT has something SUBSTANTIAL to post, they won't need clickbait to get attention for it. When I talk about NOT paying attention to YouTube for your information...this sort of thing is PRECISELY what I'm talking about.
Makes sense, nick...have you tried rearranging the ribbons so that the draws become more even across all of the power distro scheme? It should be possible, if you more or less know your module draws, to snake things in there around so that everything becomes even, then if the P/S for that zone is still running too hot, you'll know that there's potentially a problem with the P/S itself. If not, though, you've gotten your current draws set up properly with those adjustments.
I’m going to keep forging ahead and diversify my racking evolution.
Thanks gang!
-- Lowtide
That's the right attitude, yep...you have to be ready to push past mistakes to head for a suitable goal. And that's not just in this, but pretty much anything in music. It's what keeps us in practice rooms for hours on end back in academic days, and it's how you, to borrow the Interwebz phrase, "get gud". It probably also helps that you've got people in the forum with more than a century's collective knowledge, garnered from personal experience, to draw on.
So, what I would suggest is to post up all of the modules you've got in a 2 x 104 hp cab (ie: a Mantis "footprint"), and then let a few of us rip into that, and see what entails. NONE of the results are likely to be the same, either, which should show that there's multiple approaches to a proper result. And don't lose the skiffs! We've still got a semi-running thread on here in which the OP was looking for ideas for a skiff-type device that's modulation-dedicated, for example, and THAT is a good use for them. For example, let's say you have something like a Matrixbrute...plenty of CV/gate I/O...so why not add a few extra modulation sources, including some that can be fired off by the skiff itself? THAT is what the small cases do best...little "mission-specific" tricks and extras.
QUESTION: might I be overrunning power on PART of my Doepfer monster case setup? MG shows my rack power consumption is way under max capacity for the case as a whole.
-- nickgreenberg
Careful...one of the standard MG caveats is that the current draw figures aren't always 100% accurate...or sometimes even present!
ALSO...I seem to remember that there was a modification kit to allow you to remove the upper and lower trim panels of Doepfer A-100 cases and install some 4 hp horizontal frames in their place. Can't find it right now, unfortunately, but if you can turn some up, fill 'em up with 4 hp vent panels...or just use some 4 hp blanks and drill as desired. Since these are at the top and bottom of the cab, the normal airflow should draw out the heat buildup in the case.
OK...for starters, this isn't what I would call a "learning" build. In fact, NOTHING that fits into these little "beauty cases" would be able to manage that unless you go with modules under 4 hp...at which point you run into the ergonomic issues of lots of tiny knobs with no space for fingers. You see these WAY too often on YouTube...and I (and an experienced bunch of others here) consider the vast majority of the ones you see there to be essentially useless as all-around modular synths.
In short, this is heading in the wrong direction really fast! A far better and more usable situation would be to get one of the better starting cabs out there right now: the Tiptop Mantis. Then put ALL of the modules you have into that to form a complete and MUCH more educational full system. And if you think that a 2 x 104 hp with beefy power is expensive, then...
Intellijel Palette 62 = $299
Tiptop Mantis = $335
Clearly, it makes more sense in the long run to ditch the little skiffs (keep them for other purposes, though) and put your ENTIRE system in the same place, under the same power. This also helps avoid issues involving possible ground loops from having two devices, each with their own P/S, talking to each other and potentially passing a lot of ground loop hum between them.
In truth, if you want a "learning system"...it's free. VCV Rack is a Eurorack emulator that does a VERY good job at behaving like you'd expect the hardware to operate. There's even some modules that replicate familiar ones from MG. https://vcvrack.com/ I'd suggest messing around with this for a while before whipping out the plastic for actual hardware. It does take a good bit of computer power to run it at crazed synth veteran levels, but you should be able to work out how the basics work before your computer says "ENOUGH!" due to the processing load. My suggestion would be to start exploring what VCAs are for and what they do...as there's not a single one in the above build!
The other suggestion is that you should put up a build that contains ALL of your modules. Don't worry about the order in the cab...plenty of us will likely have a lot to say about it and do TO it. Probably a lot more educational in the long run...
Don't link the JPEG. Link the build page's URL itself...but before doing so, refresh your build page to make sure everything is where it goes, then you'll want to pull up the "screenshot" (under "view") as make sure it matches the build page. If not, then refresh the screenshot. Done right, that should put the build up PLUS the links to dive into it and screw around.
Is this a common problem..? I'm still building up but a rack heating up is quite a scary thought..
-- SeveredSerpents
The problem is mainly due to the power supplies. These are usually the primary heat source inside cabs; a few 4 hp supplies get hot enough that you'll see a warning on them about high temperatures. Most of the time, this isn't a concern...but if the heat builds up enough, it can throw modules that need precise CVs (VCOs, for example) for tuning reasons into fits. This has been a constant battle, actually. One of ARP's early adverts touts the stability of their VCOs as opposed to Moog's. Some of this was due to better design in the exponential voltage converters...but the original Moog 901s were notorious for janky tuning issues due to heat.
The other big problem is that excessive heat isn't good for electronic components. Over time, this can manifest as various instabilities in modules. The power supplies themselves are pretty susceptible to this issue, actually, plus they have to deal with their own current inrush issues on power up which, if components have been damaged enough, could cause you to need a new power supply.
Hmmm...a modulation-only skiff? That's actually quite doable, and it's exactly what we're talking about when we mention "mission-specific" builds. Vide:
TILES: I went with a Temps Utile with the four-input CV control expander as your master clock + random sequencing weirdness source. Then there's a quantizer, as the T_u can output CV over output 4. The QuadrATT is next, then a tile version of Mutable's Peaks.
3U: Just wait for it...it IS the ultimate in random signal generation and manipulation, a total gamechanger when it came out in the 1970s...and that's the Buchla Source of Uncertainty. It'll hit the market in a few months (I'm betting it'll be post-NAMM) and is 100% worth the wait. Then there's a quad LFO for four free-running sources. Maths follows, then a Tiptop MISO for tampering (a lot!) with modulation signals. This is paired with a Zlob Vnicvrsal VCA, which gives you six "breakout-able" linear VCAs along with the capability of mixing VCA outputs. The 4ms PEG is for generating VERY long-period modulation curves of up to 30 minutes from start of rise to end of fall, all under CV control or with lengths set by "pinging" the module by either a clocked signal OR manual tap-buttons. And last, for more conventional envelopes, there's the Quadrax plus the Qx expander, which gives you EOR and EOF signals that can be routed all over the place, or used with the Quadrax to generate "cascading" modulation curves.
@ROSELJR just wants views on her poorly written and outdated article and has no idea what a modular synth could possibly be - as indicated by the absence of any build on her profile. She may one day realize that spending time on getting a few views on a blog article isn't worth anything especially when manual work is involved to get those views, don't pay attention ;-)
-- toodee
Perhaps so...but it did inspire me to debunk the PoE primacy for this purpose as well as to toss out a couple of new ideas for Eurorack power systems. Going with a BIG unipolar DC supply to an internal voltage regular/splitter with NO current limits would fix tons of power system confusionalities.
Besides, it's sort of fun to smack the crap out of some spammer, if only verbally. @ROSELJR needs to learn to not mess around with the STEM department!
And I think that their goal here might partly be to cut the HELL out of Uli's market share by reissuing Eurorack versions of some of the most coveted (and now, cheap to make) modules in electronic music history. I'll also note that Tiptop mentioned that they also want to reissue certain 100 series modules, but they're working out a source for the proper-looking knobs for those as well as trying to locate those schematics if needed. And hybrid 100/200 systems are just...wow.
I think I've come up with a better tile row configuration:
Lots of changes. First up, there's a 4-channel CV expander for the Temps Utile next to the...well, Temps Utile. The expander gives you four CV inputs to control the six channel sequencer which does...
...which is a helluva lot more than the Steppy! Kicked that shiznit right OPEN! Then I swapped the Duatt for the triple attenuverter by Transient...same architecture, but MORE. ADSR EG is still there, swapped out the Mosaic VCA with Intellijel's, and then the Mosaic stereo out.
The addition of the T_u really opens up the timing and sequencing capabilities. Implement this row plan, and the build's game gets upped significantly.
Sounds like a software issue, actually. If you've got some signal routing software (it should be SOMEwhere in Live), you should be able to override what the computer's insisting on. Might also be worth poking around KVR (https://www.kvraudio.com/) to see if they've got a solution there as well.
It's an interesting concept, but it's got issues where powering synths is concerned. The docs note the power in watts, from which I did some calculation, and all but the stronger (and more exotic) PoE versions would only be able to power more than a basic skiff. Also, whatever case would be connected would need power for the +12, -12, and 5V rails, which means there would be some loss due to the DC conversions necessary...on top of some inherent issues in some of the PoE formats where they also involve some current loss...such as 90 watts in the "supply" end, which equals a drop over the system of around 20 watts, leaving only 70-ish watts at the "business" end. And while 71 watts does equal 5196 mA (@ 12v), that would still have to be split by the synth's P/S into the three different DC rails, which equals further losses due to both conversion and thermal issues. In the end, those loss factors don't bode well.
Now, what I would much rather see is a DC supply that ties in with the synth's DC rails via Anderson PowerPole connectors, only utilizing a voltage converter in the cab for the voltage changes. ADDAC does something like this for their huge 1 meter cabs, although some of their designs still utilize a single DC input for the power supply to split, and Konstant Labs has a similar P/S chaining protocol (with Molex connectors). But if we can go to something like, say, THIS: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/asr-rs-35a-ap ...well, given that it's a linear supply, it would be DEAD-quiet on the DC rails even with the necessary voltage conversion done inside the cab. And at 35 AMPS, loss factors stop being a problem. If we had something along THOSE lines serving as a single DC source, and the voltage conversion wasn't current-limited at a low level, that's where we should go, I think. Plus, with the right voltage conversion, the external P/S could be the determinant on maximum deliverable current, and NOT an internal supply. This would also reduce in-case heat factors, too.
See Tiptop's Superbooth video here: It's a quick overview of the upcoming six modules with some very convincing Buchla sounds in effect.
According to someone I checked with at Tiptop, these won't be the only ones. Their mission is to bring as many of the 200 series (the original, not the updated 200e modules) into production as possible and/or practical. But they also noted that neither they nor Buchla USA has all of Don's schematics, and sometimes he'd whip stuff together off the top of his head back in the Berkeley days. So some of these first version 200 modules are actually lost, unless they can reverse-engineer them from the devices themselves. Also, it's worth noting that NONE of these will have banana jacks, so the best substitute there would be stackcables, plus it's probably worthwhile to add a buffered mult or two for the 258ts.
The ones I'm jonesin' for are these: the 291 dual BPF, the 285 frequency shifter, the 227 delay, the 248 MARF, the 227 system interface (it's huge...but as synth mixers go, it's effin' amazing), the 281 Quad FG, the 206 submixer, and the 275 EQ/reverb. If we can get all or most of those...then Tiptop and Buchla have done their job right.
EDIT: And yeah, sacguy...that's one point I think people are missing here. The current situation has NUMEROUS West Coast modules, and these Tiptop ones, tossed together with some Random*Source and/or Elby Serge clones, some of Make Noise's modules, Mark Verbos' Buchla clone/upgrades, etc etc...these give us ALL of the artillery to create a rip-yer-brain-out-level West Coast system. Also, you couldn't really put these into the same cab...the Serge stuff was/is on multimodule panels, for example. Personally, this exact situation is one I've hoped for for many years!
The ES compatibility list shows the 2i4 as being suitable, and since the preamp topology is the same across that series, the 8i6 should be fine. However, I wouldn't use the SPDIF I/O. Instead, see if your DAW can recognize both interfaces, with the 828 on FW400 and the 8i6 via USB. Most present-day DAWs should be able to cope.
Glad to hear that you're ok! Lots of potential song titles in your last post: technetium-99, radioactive needle juice to name a couple...maybe with some cardiac ultrasound waveforms through Morphagene or Arbhar? ;)
-- jb61264
Actually, when they did the ultrasound, I noticed that there were some awesome stereo waveforms being generated by the ultrasound transducer's interactions with various body bits...and I checked and I think I can get those on a records disc from Carle Hospital's records department. I'll check on it in a few weeks...
Between them, TouellSkouarn, Moffenzeef, and one or two others...those all do wonderfully hideous-sounding stuff that SCREAMS "industrial" and/or "power electronics". And yeah, Schlappi's modules do "ear-wrenching" like a BOSS!
Not that mammoth, tbh. In actuality, you've actually started with the sort of case size many of us would recommend as a starter. The only thing I would point out is that when you start filling the case out, you need to watch your current draws, as you can quickly exceed that "3/4ths of the max" rule to prevent current inrush problems. Also, if you don't have a case yet, you could jettison the Row Power in favor of the built-in power on this: https://reverb.com/item/38606093-6u-eurorack-case-powered-120-or-126-hp-modular-synthesizer-patched-resealable Big, beefy Meanwells in these. Plus, many options AND portability, too!
I should be fine, sacguy. They diagnosed the problem as angina, so now I get to start my day with a time-release nitroglycerin tab for the foreseeable future. The worst part of this was the stress test...which in this case was NOT the usual treadmill-til-u-drop routine. Nooo...first of all, I didn't get food for about 14 hours. That was the test prep. Then this afternoon, they shot me up with some technetium-99 (so I get to be radioactive for another day-ish) then took me for the "stress" part...which involved some hideous chemical that induces the same sort of result, but which had a "slight chance" of causing nausea. Within 30 seconds of that injection, the "slight chance" came on with a vengeance and I was asking for a barf bag. Then...more radioactive needle juice, the second scintillator imaging run...and I noticed something...
The computer they had running the imaging machine was a Hewlett-Packard Z400.
I'm kickin' their ass over here with my Z420 and Z620! Yeah, baybee...always good to know you've got superior firepower!
