User Posts

Looking to expand Mini Brute into the world of modular. How does the community think these modules will play (well, not well, redundant, missing something key, etc...) with the MB?
-- mashume

Which Minibrute do you mean, the 2/2s, or do you mean the Microbrute? The 2s is awesome in conjuction with modular, so many cool modulation and sequencing possibilities. The Microbrute's patchbay is much more limited, but would still expand quite well into a modular rack. Do you already have the linked rack, or are you still shopping around? If you haven't gotten it yet, you may want to consider going a little bigger (the Rackbrute 6u is a good starter size, though I might recommend a Tip Top Mantis - both are great). Don't get me wrong, you can 100% build an amazing instrument in the rack size you have, but you're going to have to be conservative with hp.

How much control do you want over the basslines? Will you mostly be sequencing basslines on the MB and then sending the audio to the rack for futzing, or are you mainly looking to use your rack to modulate cv that goes back and forth into the MB? Or do you want to use the rack to create the bassline melodies itself? I see you've added a good deal of random cv possibilities to the rack since posting, how are you planning to use those? Will you be clocking from the MB?

In general though, you need more architecture (meaning utilities) to get the most out of your modules. For example, you need VCAs; the ones provided on the MB2 are not enough for an expanded system. A chainable VCA like the Intellijel Quad VCA or Mutable Instruments Veils works well. The Veils is the first module I got to expand my Minibrute 2s when dipping my toes into modular, and it completely changed how I used the synth. Also, you are missing modulators like LFOs (ignoring MATHS which, of course, can do that too). A voltage controlled LFO like XAOC's Batumi would give you excellent controllable LFOs that can drastically change your sounds and cv. I see you've added attenuverters/offsets, and MATHS can do that quite handily, but you may want to consider more, so you can better control the modulations and randomness. Happy Nerding's 3xMIA is pretty good at that, and gives you mixing, helping to free up the VCAs and MATHS which can be used in other ways.

There are a number of other utility, modulating, or signal mangling modules that I could recommend, but it really all depends on your goals, particularly with a rack of that size. Hope this helps.

noted. can you recommend some of your favorites? i've been eyeing 4ms clock distro / multiplier / divider, addt'l Intellijel logic.

Sure thing. I've really gelled with Doepfer's A-182-1 Switch Multiple and A-151 Sequential Switch. They're pretty cheap as far as modules go, and add a lot of flexibiltiy in just a little hp. I recently got the 4ms QCD and I love it. It's just straightfoward and good at what it does, and is decently easy to adjust in real time. I'm thinking about getting the expander, too. For logic there are a bunch of options; I currently use a Tesseract VC Logics, which gives you two channels a several logic options.

You may want to consider tools like Joranalogue's Swtich 4 or Route 2. I've also been playing with their Morph 4, which on the surface gives you 4 vcas that you can morph/scan through, but it goes so much deeper, and might be an interesting way to mix and blend your signals. I'd also suggest some attenuators or attenuverters to help tame and control things.

There are other interesting modules that might interest you, like comparators to pick gates off of a changing voltage, or slew limiters to give you some glide. Also, I am a big fan of randomness and off-kilter rhythms, though it doesn't sound like that's your main interest. However, even if you want to keep things steady and regular, subtle touches of randomness can really add to the life of a patch. Match random voltages up with a S+H or T+H and suddenly you're in some really interesting territory. Pass it through a quantizer and suddenly you have a non-repeating melody. Using an attenuated smooth random signal to subtly and unpredictably modulate some parameter over time gives a lot of movement to your patch.

Luckily, Pams is already capable of doing both random voltages and smooth random voltages, and has the ability to attenuate, quantize, and do logic. It can also do euclidian patterns, so you can make funky off-kilter patterns. It's another reason to get more mults; you will quickly use up all 8 outs on Pams.

i plan on using ableton as master, possibly thru my sq-64 and into Pam's. i've heard ableton is a bad clock but i've seen it done. that being said, i intend to use standalone as well. not necessarily into bleeps and bloops outside of atmosphere / percussive elements.

If you were gonna play it standalone, then you might want to think about the ergonomics and actual playability of the intstrument. It's not gonna be enjoyable if you build it all and it turns out it's no fun to play. In addition to swtiches and attenuators, you could consider mutes to go along side your matrix mixer.

Good luck with the rack!

this is my first rack. i'm experienced with synths and recording, but am wondering if I should roll w the case that fits perfectly, or opt for a little extra space. my GAS is bad but i think i have my basics covrred with these modules.

what am i missing?
-- dreamboat

The general advice is to get a bigger case than you think you need. You never know when GAS will strike! Also, you may find that you want to swap out some modules and suddenly that case isn't such a perfect fit anymore.

That being said, yeah, looks like a good rack with basics covered. The only things I might recommend are more ways to control signal path and timing (e.g., sequential switch, switch multiple, router, logic, clock dividers, etc..) and maybe more mults/vcas. Otherwise though, it looks like a fun place to start.

How do you plan to play the instrument? Are you using external gear to control things, or is this a standalone?

I love it so much. He has some pretty amazing live abilities. But I was looking for a generative sequencer for this rack that only eurorack makes possible. But the more I advance in my reflections the more I tell myself that I will keep it :)

-- timtoum93

Definitely keep it if you mesh well with it. Besides, you'll end up getting more rack space eventually; it's inevitable. If you want to do generative music, however, you may want to consider a few other types of modules that can pair with your random voltage generator. Utilities like a comparator which can allow you to pick gates out of signals like random voltages or lfos (my favorite is the Compare 2, which has a bunch of hidden functionality). Sample and hold/track and hold (I know tagh has one on it, but maybe consider having a dedicated one) also allow you to collect cv from random voltages, enabling you to build changing sequences and melodies. Also, a quantizer so that the cv you sample actually sounds musical.

None of the above are necessities, of course. But they can go a long way to helping you realize a generative system.

Pam not enough for clock multipliers/dividers? For the moment I have a metropolix but it takes up a lot of space. I'm going to have a hard time parting with it. I haven't made my choice between Metropolix and Bloom yet. I think you're right about the extra LFOs and VCAs. Thank you so much :)

-- timtoum93

Since Pam's is capable of a lot of different things aside from clocking (e.g., euclidean patterns, logic, random voltages/smooth random, etc...), I prefer to use a dedicated divider/multiplier (along with a switched multiple for better routing) for the boring clocking signals and leave Pam's outputs open for more interesting tasks.

How is the Metropolix? I've never had the chance to use one but they look fun and pretty easy to perform with.

EDITED May 29th 2023, 14:55

I have an analog rytm for drums. I do techno and I try to produce with my modular bassline, atmospheres and melodies with many layers of modulation. THANKS :)
-- timtoum93

Hey, looks like a fun rack, but curious how you're planning to sequence triggers or melodies, are those being done off rack? Even if so, you might want to consider something like the 4ms QCD or another clock divider/multiplier for more rhythmic possibilities. I always love a good sample and hold or track and hold, as well.

You have ochd (which is my current favorite lfo) and other modules capable of doing lfos, but you may want to consider more dedicated lfos (particularly those that can be cv controlled) so you can get your layers of modulation. Batumi has a big footprint but is quite powerful, 4ms makes a pingable one, too.

Also, I think you'll want to have some more attenuators or vcas in there to help you control modulation. The Morph 4 is super cool and gives you 4 vcas, but it seems a shame to waste its potential that way. Maybe a good end of chain cascading vca like intellijel's quad vca would help.

Good luck and have fun!

EDITED May 29th 2023, 11:58

I use the Ensemble Oscillator mostly to get a instant evolving drone going and combine it with more sound elements.
I use the SWN mostly to start a complex sequence as a main leading sound theme >

Thanks for the in depth reply! Unfortunately, it looks like the only real answer is to get both, of course! But it seems like the EO might be a better team player in a smaller rack and more immediately impactful. That SWN seems like a dream, though. Maybe someday. Thanks again!

EDITED May 22nd 2023, 22:01

• 4ms Ensemble Oscillator
  and / or
• 4ms wavetable navigator

I love them for ambient - they are fantastic
For drones, chords, timbres all the chilling fun

-- MCGM

Not to hijack the thread, but curious if you had a favorite between the two? Both have peaked my interest, but I've not had the chance to try either.

And yes, I do have this many Maths...

Wow, that's impressive. Are you gonna be keeping Maths in your main racks while you do this, or are you covering the functionality in different ways? Just curious 'cuz I'm always interested in how people replace Maths.

I might do a writeup or a video or so of the results (me getting all tangled up in a mess of wires).

I think I speak for us all here when I say, yes, please do!

Agree with Jukeshoe. However, if you DO have that many Maths and go through with this, please, please film the results!

Ok, this was a neat challenge. But to be honest, I think my solution might need some work. I like where Sweelinck was headed (particularly with the Morphagene), as well. Maybe one of the real power users will come along and give some suggestions. But let me show you where my thinking is leading, and you can do with that as you will.

For starters, I kept almost all the modules you've already gotten, only switching out your passive mult for a buffered mult. A passive mult does not do as good a job as a buffered when multing signals; if you want to mult 1v/oct signals, you'll want a buffered mult so there is no drop in voltage. Also, I'd get a multi-cable rather than a passive mult, to save space. The other thing to consider is that the Rene, as badass as it is, takes up 32hp. That's pretty dear for a sequencer, even one as powerful as Rene. You have 104 hp to use (if the above case is accurate), don't waste nearly a third of it on a sequencer. Get something off rack like a BSP, or go for a bigger case so you don't have to sacrifice other modules for Rene.

Keeping in mind that you are interested in dark ambient with a hint of generative, I did the following (listed by function).

Top Row: Random voltages, VCOs (3 v/oct ins), multimode filter (2 inputs), mults, Maths (so many functions, but at most basic, a mixer/attenuverter/function generator), audio manipulation in the form of uClouds and uRings, function/envelopes/quad cascading VCA.
Bottom Row: Clocking, modulators, attenuverters, S/H and T/H, sequencer, precision adder, sequential switch, uO_C (so many functions, only two levels of menu diving), and end of chain VCAs, effects, and mixers.

My thought is that you could use the bottom row to supply motion, modulation, attenuation, triggers, gates, and sequences. These can be manipulated or quantized (which Rene can already do, but what if you use you S/H for a melody?) or so many other things using uO_C. After that you have another VCA and then end of chain processing. I give you for effects the Happy Nerding FX Aid XL, which sounds great, though you will want to have a printout of the different settings at hand. There's a new version out with a screen, but you don't have the hp for it at the moment.

The top row has sound sources, giving you 3 digital voices that come out of the VCOs ready to go. However, if you wanted to filter further, the Filter 8 gives you plenty to play with. And Joranalogue always throws extra functionality into their modules. Then Maths, which is so handy it needs its own post. Then sound processing in uClouds and uRings. I generally prefer the real article to clones, but it makes sense with MI's situation and your hp. Finally, function/envelope generation and VCAs to craft the shape of the sound.

My typical approach to building a rack is to try to think through the signal path as I plan. From beginning to end, where might I need to send voltages, or what parameters will I want to mangle? That way I can start thinking about the system as an instrument rather than a collection of modules.

Finally, there are utilities. These are hard to figure out without trying them, unless you're already blessed with electrical engineering experience. I mean, how are you supposed to know that sequential switches can be your best friend when building longer sequences, or that precision adders rock, or that comparators are game changers for generative music? The uO_C, particularly with Hemispheres loaded, gives you a chance to test them all out and decide what you actually need. In general (adapting something Sweelinck said in another thread), if you think of your system as a building, the oscillators, filters, and fancy modules are rooms, but you need the utilities to act as hallways and corridors (and sometimes fun-house mirrors) to get from room to room. I highly recommend looking up some videos about different utilities to get a better sense of what they do. Loopop, Mylarmelodies, and DivKid were sources I went to when I was figuring this out, and I found them invaluable.

Anyways, maybe one of the really experienced folks will tell you something different. But it looks like you're on a good path, you just need to think more about the architecture and connecting pieces of your system.

Good luck!

EDITED May 21st 2023, 13:27

HGsynth thanks for the reply. This already helps a lot. Worth of mentioning is that i'm using a beatstep pro as wel to clock everything and as a sequencer. I was thinking about Pamela's new workout, or a extra vca from intelijel. What kind of multi-fuction tool do i have to think of?

My pleasure. Putting together a system without having tried all the modules is tough, particularly if you're new to this. Glad to help.

Ok, BSP is a fine choice. I love both my Pam's (I have "New Workout," haven't tried the "Pro") and my Intellijel quad VCA; both massively changed how I used my system. Also, the Pam's brings us back to utilities, because you should consider what you want to do with the clock from Pam's. How will you mult the boring regular pulses from one output so you can make use of Pam's more interesting features in the others, like euclidean rhythms, logic, quantization, or smooth random? Do you want to be able to multiply or divide the clock to send different speeds of the signal around your system? Do you want to use the gates as envelopes?
Clock dividers or multipliers (e.g, 4ms QCD), buffered mults (e.g., Joranalogue Link2), VCAs (so many different ones), attenuators/attenuverters/inverters (e.g., Happy Nerding 3xMIA, Frap 321, etc.), and slew (e.g., Joranalogue Contour 1, Doepfer A-171, etc.) all seem to make more sense when you think about it that way.

Other utilities, like window comparators, logic, precision adders, S/H or T/H, gate-trigger converters, etc. all are harder to conceptualize until you need one while patching. For example, what if I wanted to pick gates off of two related LFOs whenever their voltages reach a certain range? Or I want to make a step sequence from a complex LFO or smooth random voltages? Or what if one of my modules is not reacting properly to a gate because it only like triggers or the voltage is not high enough? All situations I've come across, leading to getting the utilities above.

For a multi-tool, I think Ornament and Crime is a complete game-changer. It's menu-diving is only 2 steps deep, and it has so many tools on it (personally, I prefer the Hemispheres option). Play around with that for a while and you'll get to know what utilities you need. People also love the Disting EX and MK4, but I haven't tried those personally. The EX is on my to get list, though. I recommend watching some videos about the different utilities to figure them out. There are a lot of good ones: Divkid, loopop, mylarmelodies, red means recordings, etc... so many great folks in the community explaining how modules work and giving patching ideas. I always watch a ton of those before making a purchase.

Good luck!

Forgetting utilities, modulation sources, etc. is a very common mistake at the beginning. When we think about our dream house, we are mainly focused on the living room, the bedrooms, the kitchen, the bathroom... Corridors, doors, staircases and closets are less of a dream.

@Sweelinck, I love this analogy. Definitely using it in the future. Thanks!

EDITED May 17th 2023, 13:19

Two thoughts.

1) You have a lot of nice modules here, and I wouldn't necessarily drop anything that you already have. But I would say that you're missing the architecture necessary to actually use a lot of the modules: utilities. You should be thinking about how to actually get signals to the modules and how you'll morph the signals along the way. For example, you have Batumi for LFOs. Awesome choice, but how are you gonna tame the signal without wasting Maths? Maybe an attenuator (or better yet, attenuverter) or two would help. Or, of course, you could have more VCAs. A sample and hold or track and hold might be worth considering for turning those random voltages into step sequences. A quantizer would be cool, too. What if you want to route a signal to multiple locations? Buffered mults will allow that without any drop in voltage. I particularly like the Doepfer Switched Multiples and Sequential switch for these purposes. There are many utilities that will allow you to mangle, tame, move, or manipulate the signal; don't forget about them! Maybe check out a multi-function tool or VCV rack to get a sense of which utilities you'll need.

2) How are you connecting to the outside world? Are you working with a computer or DAW, or just the standalone modular synth?

Best of luck!

Hi all,

As a fun challenge, I wanted to see if I could build a semi-generative system in small rack. So, using a Rackbrute 6U and modules I already own, I present the results. I explain my thinking below. But what about you? What's the tightest/most complete instrument you could build in a Rackbrute using only modules you already own? Any style, but please explain your rack.

So, here's my thinking:
Row 1: power, clocking, routing/mults, uO_C, voices, envelopes, VCAs
Row 2: modulators, gates, s/h, routing, triggers, VCA, effects, and end of chain processing.

Pam's runs the show with the master clock, with some utilitarian architecture afterwards to get the signals around. My main modulators are Batumi and Ochd, but there are other LFOs and modulators around, as well. Random gates, triggers, and sequences can come from several sources: uO_C, Pam's, or a combo of utilities. These get quantized by uO_C, which then feeds Plaits and Rings. Zadar helps shape it all alongside Veils. Then, the signals make their way to the end of the chain with some effects and sound shaping along the way. Finally, to cheat, there is the ES-9, making the exercise kind of irrelevant, but fun nonetheless.

So, let's see your racks.

EDITED May 16th 2023, 19:53

Wow thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my post.

No problem!

part of me thinks I should start very small so that I can learn my modules and figure out what I need

Yes and no. Yes - start with a small number of modules that will work together to give you a chance to learn how they interact. No - don't use a small starter case. Really, you'll be kicking yourself in a year (or sooner) if you start with a tiny case.

One other option I forgot to mention is that you'll get a lot of bang for your buck with a multi-utility or multi-function tool like Maths (worth the hp for all the versatility it brings), uOrnament and Crime, or Disting EX. The last two are a little menu-divey, but either will give you access to a large number of utilities and will allow you to figure out which ones you actually use.

Good luck!

Hey, good luck with the journey. It's fun, and the rabbit hole of searching for interesting modules is addictive.

Out of curiosity, how are you planning to use modular in your music? If you just want to build a sequence and have drums, it's way cheaper to go the route of drum machines and sequencers. Sound mangling is cool, but again, probably cheaper off rack. Of course they can't do what modular does, but you could buy a lot of instruments for the price of a full rack that can do many of the same functions as modular.

That out of the way, two things jump out at me about your racks:

1) VCOs and VCFs combine for 56 hp of space for just two independent voices. That's a whole lot of real estate for a case that's only 104hp. As cool as those oscillators are, maybe find smaller versions, or dual oscillators or filters? If you like Instruo, their Ts-L has a voltage controlled wavefolder and is only 6hp. Klavis Twin Waves Mk II is huge sounding in 8 hp, and itself is a dual VCO. If you want to keep it analogue, Make Noise has STO. Shakmat Modular's Dual Dagger is a dual VCF in 6 hp. Right there you have 2 to 3 independent voices in 16-18 hp. That gives you a lot of space back to work with. Particularly, since you'll want to use it for....

2) Utilities. You need more utilities, in particular for clocking and triggering. Yes, you have a monster sequencer, but adding something like a Pam's would give you a lot more options and flexibility. Things like clock divider or multipliers will give you access to a lot more rhythmic options. Logic modules allow for more interesting combinations and trigger sequencers. I see you're planning on getting the Compare 2, which has some logic built in. Great module. Personally, I LOVE sample/track and hold, and they are super cool to use as modulators, and can be used to build melodies from the LFOs you have (which, you could also get more of).

Utilities are useful because they are just so damn versatile. For example, how about more attenuators or attenuverters to subtly affect signals, or even invert them? Or, another example of the utility of utilities, you could build a step sequencer with just a clock, a sequential switch and a matrix mixer, and suddenly with three utility modules you have a sequence. Add something that can quantize, and suddenly you have a melody you can control with a mixer, all from utilities and a clock. Routing is important too. Spreading that signal around with Link 2 is great (personally I love Joranalogue), but how about adding Doepfer's Switch Multiple that gives you mults and the ability to route signals. Joranalogue just announced a new routing module that looks sick, so maybe think about that, too.

Anyways, I'm sure someone with more experience can give you more focused advice specific to hip hop, but my general thoughts are stay away from big sound making modules, and stick close to the smaller, cheaper, utilities.

Good luck!

EDITED May 12th 2023, 19:44

Lots of food for thought there. Appreciate the input!

-- FUNKEDub

My pleasure, glad it was of some help! Enjoy the rack, it looks like fun!

No idea why the link is showing a weird half-empty rack. Click it and you should go to the real rack. Mods, any idea how to fix?

EDITED May 6th 2023, 15:13

I'm not terribly experienced giving feedback like this, so take this with a grain of salt, but here are my thoughts:

1. Bigger case. You're just gonna find yourself limited with 84 hp, no matter how you look at it. Particularly since you can only have 10 modules plugged into this case, regardless of how much hp you can squeeze out of it. The Nifty case has things going for it, no doubt (like the DAW connectivity), but you're just going to get frustrated saying "no" to interesting modules with a case this size when for only a module's amount more you can get something bigger (e.g., Mantis, etc..) that will allow you more flexibility.

2. The Grandmother already comes with a sequencer and arpeggiator, a filter that you can send a signal into, and a few other tricks. Use those and don'y waste space with modules like the 2HP Arp (it's a good module, but not a great use of space). Also, between Plait's natural abilities and the VCF on the Grandmother, the MI Ripples starts to seem unnecessary.

3. Triggers and LFOs. As you can see, I've done a lot to your rack. Moved your Pams to the left (personal preference) and gave it the expander. Pam's can do a lot of neat tricks (triggers, gates, logic, quantization, stepped/smooth random, limited envelopes, euclidean rhythms, etc.). You don't want to waste its regular outputs on something dull like a steady 1x trigger. Use the expander for that. Next, we have modulation. Your A-147-2 is awesome, but pretty big for that case. So, I went bigger. For 5 hp more, you get Batumi and it's expander, giving you up to 12 LFO outs. Plus it can be cv controlled, self-patched, and has a few neat rhythmic modes that will keep you busy.

4. Utilities and cv-futzers. More, you need more. Audio manglers sound nice, but the richness and movement and finesse in modular come from the ability to move, attenuate, switch, offset/invert, route, and otherwise f-up a signal, which is what utilities give. First, you have the Happy Nerding 3x MIA. Everybody needs attenuverters, and this is 1 more than the one you had already. Also, the double pots are great to play with. Then the A-130-2, dual VCAs, since you really can't have too many. I like to have VCAs after my LFOs so I can modulate the modulator. Then, the A-182-1, Switched Multiple. This module takes no power and allows you to manually send or mute signals to two different sources. It also acts as a 2 channel multiple. As simple as it is, I've found it essential to my patches. Then uO_C, which gives you access to a whole host of programs to try out, such as quantizers, sequencers, slew, clock dividers, envelopes, simple comparators, vcas, and logic, etc... I prefer it with Hemisphere loaded, but it's amazing either way. A bit menu-divey, but it will give you a sense of what utilities and tools you'll want to dedicate a standalone module to in the future. Then the endorphins.es Airstreamer for ADSR duties (and other things like slew, s/h, etc.). Unfortunately, envelopes were an area I couldn't really help with (aside from uO_C and Airstreamer), as I don't know of good dual (or more) envelope generators that are thin. If you had a few hp more you could go with some interesting options, but you are limited at the moment to 4 hp (see below about Plaits). At the end, I give you another Happy Nerding Module, the 3x VCA, since, you really can't have too many of them, and they work great as an end of chain module. Also, those double pots.

5. Audio. Plaits has got a big footprint, but I always prefer the real MI modules to clones. That said, with MI gone now, a clone like Knits would not be a bad or problematic choice. With Plait's/Knit's onboard abilities, you can do without an additional VCF, hence the removal of Ripples (no offense to a cool module intended). Then Beads. Beads is awesome. Beads stays. Be aware though, it takes some playing around with to get the sounds you want out of it. Once you figure it out though (and if you have enough modulation), it can really do wonders. With 3 hp left, I give you Erica Synths DSP, just a few more effects to play around with.

And there you have it. Should let you have a good time with your Grandmother and keep you flexible enough to experiment.

In the final assessment though, I think you have space to have fun, but you'd have a whole lot more fun with a bigger case.

Best of luck!

EDITED May 6th 2023, 15:11

musicstore expect new mantises at the start of July

Oooh, thanks for the tip! And in black, too, so tempting.

EDITED May 3rd 2023, 21:21

1) what am I missing?
possibly nothing - what do you reach for? do you run out of mixer channels/vcas/envelope generators/lfos?

3) how would you spend that remaining 20 hp?
probably more utilities... and/or a 2nd fx aid... I'm contemplating a pro to add to my xl (so I can use the duplicate 1st 32 algos trick to see what I'm doing)

-- JimHowell1970

Hi Jim, thanks! If I'm not running out of cables first, it's usually attenuators and switches. I'm hoping to have solved that a bit in the updated version, linked below.

Any favorite utilities that are typically overlooked? Also, that fx aid pro looks great, and I'm really tempted, just not sure about that 14 hp size (I wonder if there are more mantis cases in stock...). I added an Erica Synths Pico DSP to my updated plan, but I haven't played around with their modules before, so I'm not sure if that's the right direction to go in. Definitely think it will be interesting to have some effects earlier in my signal chain, though.

Thanks again for the feedback!

I can't help with your main questions, I'm afraid. I'm actually pretty curious about this myself.

But I wanted to say that I wouldn't wait on uO_C unless you have to. It's not glamorous or necessarily fun to play with, but it will give you access to a number of tools that will allow you to do a lot with the modules you already have. It was seriously a game-changer in my own rack. Best of luck!

I agree with @Sweelinck, particularly about watching that video. If you haven't seen them already, Mylarmelodies' videos are immensely helpful in putting together a rack and just understanding modular in general.

As for your case, my first thought is the QPas is taking up a whole lot of territory. It may sound great, but if you can't fit anything else in the rack to use with it, it won't work for you the way you want it to. To be honest, Plaits is so robust and flexible (particularly with the new firmware update) that you could probably get away without a dedicated VCF.

Next, you need modulators. Things like lfos that will give movement and flow to your patches and let you change parameters without futzing with tiny knobs like on the 2hp modules. 2hp makes great modules, but you really need to think about usability and spacing with their knobs. For example, would you be able to play with the Mix's knobs during a live set without accidentally messing with Plaits' settings? Back to modulators, one great module is DivKid's ochd, 8 triangle lfo's in 4hp, it makes really organic motion. Doesn't help with other wave shapes, but I love it. Though it's a bigger footprint (10hp), Xaoc's Batumi is a classic and gives you access to a wide range of lfo options. Amazing when self-patched, too.

How about percussion? It doesn't usually makes sense to waste space with drum modules if you don't have much hp to spare (use outboard gear for that), but if you wanted everything on rack, something like Erica Synths Pico Drums (3hp) might be interesting. If you are using off rack percussion, or just because it's awesome, then something that can send out triggers would be helpful. You could use that to build patterns or any number of other useful things. Of course the Pamela's New Workout / Pro (10hp) is a standard, but there are other, interesting ones like Euclidian Circles by vpme.de (10hp) or various logic modules (which, in fact, Pamela's can also do).

Finally, but maybe most importantly (@JimHowell1970): utilities. Your case already comes with a good starter pack (attenuators, mults, vcas, mixers, Maths), but that's really only scratching the surface of what's out there. You can squeeze so, so much life out of your system using utilities. Also, they're often cheaper than the sexier vcos and vcfs, so that's a plus. Something like Ornament and Crime (particularly with hemisphere loaded) gives you a huge number of utilities and therefore flexibility in something like 8hp, depending on who makes it. I haven't yet used it myself, but Expert Sleepers' Super Disting EX Plus Alpha is a monster for utilities (also 8hp). While they're not very fun to play and do have some menu diving, either one will open a ton of doors to different tools that will change your modular experience for the better.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

(edited 'cuz I thought of more things to say)

EDITED May 1st 2023, 18:28

not sure how to post a proper link

copy & paste the url... needs to be a public rack

-- JimHowell1970

Got it, thanks!

That's the current set up, but as I said, there's not too much that's sacrosanct. I've had to take some things out for the suggested rack above to make space, but I think all functionality is already covered by the additions.

Are there any utilities that I'm missing that might be helpful? I'm thinking that between the o_C and disting I have pretty good coverage, but would anything benefit by being a standalone module?

Hi friendly modular experts!

Here's another post seeking feedback and constructive criticism on a potential rack. I already have a lot of these modules (current rack is here: https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2104407.jpg, not sure how to post a proper link), but nothing is sacrosanct. Goal is to be a jack of all trades, but my main focus is on melodic generative music with a lot of playable sound mangling possibility. The image represents a Minibrute 2s connected to a Rackbrute 6u, with a Mantis case to the right.

General approach
Rackbrute - bottom row: usb interface, modulators, randomness and noise, s+h. top row: clocks, triggers, quantizers, general utilities
Mantis - bottom row: envelopes, mixers, effects, eq and output. top row: oscillators and sound sources, filters and effects.

I've tried to cover all my bases and be heavy handed with utilities, but it turns out I have 20 hp left if I stick with my current plan.

So my questions are:
1) what am I missing?
2) what do I have too much of/what's redundant?
3) how would you spend that remaining 20 hp?

Thanks everyone!

Very cool. I've never used anything from 1010 Music, but I've definitely seen that people love them. I'm currently running my rack into a DAW. I find that the ability to record has definitely made me rethink my approach to patching. In fact, it's one of the things that made me curious to ask this question. Since I can basically record everything now, each patch feels like it has a million different subtle variations and each one has a chance to be that happy little accident I'm looking for. Typically, I just end up with multiple hours of meh, but hey, there's a few good samples here and there. But it's become a struggle between teasing out each variation versus just making a new patch and starting fresh, which I expect is a common experience here. Not sure when I'm chasing something that will be great versus chasing a diminishing return.

I definitely appreciate the wide spectrum of responses I've gotten so far, it's really interesting to hear all the different approaches.

Very interesting, thanks.

Also, cool track! How did you get the light, bouncy runs that pan back and forth throughout the piece?

I'm actually trying to get to a position where I can have the minimal number of modules that have the greatest versatility. I have somewhere around 100+ modules so it gets a bit frustrating knowing that I have any handful of modules that will accomplish the same things. I like making music way more than I like fiddling around with my rack setups and wiring!

-- frankdog

True that. I have a smaller rig (at least at the moment, fingers crossed that changes), but to be honest, I find I push myself in more interesting directions when I limit myself to only a few choice modules. I still think the best modular piece I've made so far was with nothing more than the Minibrute 2s, Veils, and O_c. Somehow now that I have many more modules than that, I can't seem to recreate what I did. Which I guess hits on your other point of making notes/recordings of patches.

@Arrandan, very cool. Things in 5 just have a certain funk to them, don't they. I'm definitely going to attempt your approach of aiming for regular, disciplined recording of jams and then moving on to a new patch. At least until I build a better understanding of my modular system and have a critical mass of modules that allows for longer-term exploration of a patch.

EDITED Nov 30th 2022, 23:28

Awesome, thanks for the tips!

For me it's a bit different. To keep myself away from TV, I committed myself to making a new track every day. So every evening, I pull all the patch cables and start from scratch. 2-3 hours later, I post the result on SoundCloud. I've been doing that since March. I can tell you, it's a very fast way to learn a lot about patching techniques.
-- Arrandan

That's a hell of a disciplined way to learn, wow. Those are cool tracks, by the way!

I feel that this approach is somewhat similar to mine; each time I patch I try to find slightly different ways to connect everything to avoid a rut where each patch sounds the same. Also, after a few days, I'm usually out of cables and decide to start anew out of boredom (there's that impatience I was mentioning earlier). I also sometimes purposely limit myself to a small selection of modules, both to push myself by setting artificial restrictions to work around and to counter the impulse to use every module and cable in every patch.

@GarfieldModular, thanks! I remember you saying in another thread that you predominantly do generative stuff. Do you typically find that you start a patch the same way each time? For example, I've realized that I rely too heavily on O_c's shift register and quantizer to start a patch, and am trying to avoid being overly reliant on that same signal path.

Appreciate all the feedback, everyone!

Cool, thanks!

Interesting, thanks for the response. I suppose I would agree that it's very connected to all of those variables (goals, style, size, etc.). At the moment, my system is still relatively small (https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2086285.jpg - how do I post a link to my rack rather than the jpg?), so I think part of my issue is that I can't work around an existing patch too easily if I want access to a module. The other part is that I'm just an impatient person (sigh).

The temporary nature of patches is part of the fun for me, but as I said, I'm starting to realize that maybe I'm not actually exploring them deeply enough before I remove the cables. But as each patch is a learning experience, I suppose that it's just a matter of gaining more experience with my modules and my own workflow.

Hi all!

General question, but I'm curious how long you typically keep a patch before starting a new one? Additionally, how do you know when you've fully explored your patch and are ready to move on to something new?

I find that my patches only last between a few days to a week before I feel the urge to explore something new. I realize that I'm most inspired when building a new patch, rather than returning to the befuddling spaghetti of an older one. However, as my rack and experience grow, I'm finding that there are seemingly infinite variations to explore within each patch. Also, I've read several posts of people who keep patches together for weeks or even months! Due to that, I'm starting to wonder if I'm exploring each patch deeply enough, and if my lack of inspiration with older patches actually comes from a lack of knowledge.

How do you know when you're "done" with a patch and ready to move onto greener musical pastures?

Do you have any strategies that you when use to explore your patches to ensure that you've squeezed out all the music you can from it?

Thanks everyone!

@Toccata and @JimHowell1970 Thanks so much for the detailed feedback and for thinking through some patching examples for this rig! As you say, finding out something doesn't work as intended after putting so much into this rig would be disappointing, to put it mildly. I hadn't even considered the possibility that I'd could reach a point of diminishing returns concerning the number of LFOs, attenuverters, etc. Planning out a system based on manuals and youtube videos is fun, but definitely misses the experiential aspect that would allow me to really get a feel for how the pieces interact with each other. I really appreciate y'all taking the time to guide us less experienced wigglers through this morass of modules.

You say in your layout description you have 'MIDI in the bottom left' but you have the ES-8 which is an Audio Interface, I think. You might be thinking of the FH-2 instead yes? That does MIDI to CV conversion so you can play from external USB devices and your DAW, etc.

Much appreciated, you're absolutely right. Thanks for catching a silly mistake!

Thanks for pointing that out. I have a Compare 2 now, mostly use it for the logic section. Still trying to figure out how to integrate it into my patches, to be honest.

Thanks @dubstepjoris for the detailed response!

To be honest, I'm hoping for the rig to be able to do a bit of everything. I've currently got a 6u Rackbrute + Minibrute 2s setup, which I'm planning on turning into a standalone synth for more beat oriented music, so this rig can be predominantly generative focused.

Good point about the trigger sources and quantizers. As @Manbearpignick says, I tend to use the O_c for shift registers and quantizing, so I'm hoping that the 2 there plus the Scales will get me where I want to go. Then again, I'm definitely eyeing the Harmonaig and a few others. It's amazing that with a rack this size, it still feels like I have to make compromises in places.

Thanks again everyone!

Thanks so much for the feedback! I've been trawling through the forums for a while trying to collect all the tips and info you and other power users have been suggesting about building racks - I'm happy to hear that I seem to be on the right track.

I was worried that I had some functionality blindspots in the design. Hadn't looked into slope detectors before, but they seem like really useful utilities. If I understand them correctly, they'll send out gates while they detect a changing cv signal, correct? Can those be used with audio signals, as well?

Also, that microcell looks sweet, I'll definitely have to check that out.

Thanks again!

Hi all,

I've been dipping my toes into modular for about a year and a half now, and am starting to think about expanding into a serious system. I've been eyeing the Case from Lake resealable 15u 126 hp model (https://www.casefromlake.com/product-page/15u-126-hp-84-104-or-other-eurorack-portable-case-powered-patched-resealable) as being sufficient for me to build a rack without too many sacrifices (no harm in dreaming big and pretending I have the funds). I put together the linked rack to see if this is the direction I want to head.

Goals of the rack:
1) Be interactive and playable.
2) Able to perform hands-off generative music.
3) Be a versatile multi-voice instrument with lots of sound mangling possibilities.
4) Be self-contained when needed, and able to connect with external gear as needed.

Planning the rack:
1) Making it interactive - I figured the "playing surface" would be the outside perimeter (rows 1 and 5 and the exteriors of the inner rows), as the inner rows would hard to access once patched. I added joysticks and some macro-controllers, and placed the more wiggle-able modules on the perimeter o make it more playable.
2) Grouping by function - I have a general pattern starting with sequencers and midi in the bottom left, moving up to inputs and drums and then triggers and gates and randomness in the center. Above that are modulators and then the voices on the top left. Moving to the top right, there are audio manipulators, below that are envelopes and the like. The center right will be the main output area, with mixers and effects and such. The bottom right has more modulators and other interactive modules. Utilities are sprinkled throughout.

Questions:
1) Am I thinking along the right track for an instrument that will meet my goals?
2) Am I missing anything important, or are there better/more available modules for the job?
3) Are there redundancies and modules I can remove to reclaim hp?
4) Do you have suggestions on other ways to organize the rack to make it a coherent and playable instrument?

Thanks a bunch everyone!

I hadn't really looked at the Quadrax deeply before, but wow! it seems pretty handy. My wallet appreciates that they're not available at the moment!

Thanks for the advice!

Thanks @t4mber. I didn't know about the Droid, certainly interesting (albeit a little intimidating!). As far as a "playing surface" is concerned, I'd love to find a solution to allow for more interaction with the system. I've not gotten Stages yet, but the 321 and Veils work well together so far for tuning my modulators (especially with the 321's mixer functions). They're just limited by size. Always looking for recommendations though.

Firstly, if you're open to integrating this with a computer, get an ES9 and connect your physical modules with VCVRack. It will open up soooo many ways to learn. I do all my mixing and end of chain effects in VCV, including the amazing and free Supermassive reverb plugin from Vahalla. If you're dead set on a physical only rack, you could even sell on the ES9 when your case is near-full. You'll find a buyer in about 60 seconds after listing it on Reverb.com

Cool idea. I'm definitely not opposed to some computer integration. Still learning my way around VCV, it would be nice to augment the rack, as long as it can stay predominantly physical. I'll have to look into the ES9.

Secondly, in your case, you need to increase the randomness (actually the Buchla random you had before would be ideal). I would definitely add dedicated Sample & Holds and put them next to your noise module. Would also add some free running chaotic random CV like a Sloths. Also consider at least one buffered mult.

Sloths is new to me. Seems like a bit of an unpredictable beast. Absolutely agree on needing more randomness though, so I'm happy for the suggestion. I often use the O_c for its shift register/turing machine apps, though I've been on the search for a dedicated piece to replace that and free up the module for other things.

The other thing I think you need are more ways to attenuate, invert, offset. One key thing about generative is being able to 'tune' your CV in order to precisely tweak that generative randomness into something listenable. One thing you could do is swap some your VCA choices with ones that can VCA but also do inversion and offset. You have a bit of that, but IMHO you need more.

Finally I would sprinkle those utilities all around your case.

Thanks so much for the advice!

Before you get a Mimetic Digitalis try setting your Pam's to 4x, stepped random wave, and loop length to CV1. You can send 0V and it will just generate random steps, but then increase voltage to lock it in a loop. Then back to 0V for Turing Machine style random stepped voltage.
-- obscuremachines

What a cool trick, thanks!

A Mimetic Digitalis sequencer would work well in this set-up. They are great for stepped CV modulation. It would work nicely with your Pam's.
-- Ronin1973

Thanks for the suggestion. I typically use the MB2s for sequencing, but I'd love to add more onboard ability to lesson my reliance on the tabletop units, particularly if they are good for playing live. With the Pam's and the A138m, that might be a great combo for complex weirdness.

I really like batumi and poti, but I'd be tempted to also consider zadar and nin - which can provide some very long complex modulation, which can easily be attenuated to mix with other modulation sources in the matrix mixer... I'd probably go with this and start saving for the next case - to put the other modules in - another very interesting module I'd probably look at is the Xaoc Samara ii - which has an interesting clamp function...

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your feedback. I've been torn between the Batumi and Zadar for quite a while, but since they keep being out of stock, I've been stuck in Xaoc limbo for both. We'll see which is in stock first, but definitely think I'm going to end up with both eventually, once a new case arrives. I hadn't looked at the Samara ii yet, that one seems quite useful, might be a good fit.

a good habit when you get a case is to charge rack space (ie save the cost of the hp for the module in a piggy bank or savings account) - by the time the case is full there'll be enough cash for the next case...
-- JimHowell1970

That's a great idea, thanks!

I've been slowly piecing together this 6U rack with a goal of making an instrument that can function alone for generative music, but also supplement the Minibrute 2s when I want a more hands-on, guided session. I've got 13hp left, and I'm curious what feedback y'all would have for this? Obviously, the correct answer is a bigger rack, but that's gonna have to wait for a bit, unfortunately. I'm currently thinking along the lines of the Xaoc Batumi, WMD/SSF Toolbox, or DivKid/SSF RND sample and hold for the last piece.

Are there things I've overlooked or skimped on?
Any suggestions for organization and signal flow (particularly if it results in more usable space)?
Anything you would replace?

Thanks!

Hi all,

Following up on the advice I received from the previous post (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/11058). Is this new version nearer the mark? I tried to keep @JimHowell1970 's formula in mind this time. Is this distribution of modulators and utilities more reasonable? Any feedback or suggestions would be welcome!

Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback. Damn, I thought I was gonna get the balance right, this time! I guess I'll need to do more thinking about it. Appreciate the suggestion of wmd toolbox, I'll check that out!

Cool, thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks! Any suggestions on what might replace the Cold Mac?
Also, yeah, I'm probably being too eager about the Buchla / Tiptop modules. They just look so cool...

Hello!

I'm trying to think through a generative system for a Doepfer A-100 P9 9U case. This is what I had in mind:

In/out: Joranalogue Recieve 2, Happy Nerding Isolator.
Sources: Doepfer A-111-4, Tiptop Buchla 258t; Tiptop Buchla 266t.
Computer/FX: Ornaments and Crime, Happy Nerding FX AID XL
Modifiers: Joranalogue Contour 1, Joranalogue Filter 8, Happy Nerding MMM VCF, Xaoc Zadar/NIN, Intellijel Plog, Mutable Instruments Stages.
Modulators: Xaoc Batumi/Poti, Ladik L-121, Joranalogue Compare 2, Mannequins Cold Mac.
Utilities: Intellijel Scales, Doepfer A-130-2 Dual VCA, Dopefer A-135-2 Quad VCA/Mixer, Intellijel Quad VCA, Mutable Instruments Veils, Schenktronics Attenuverter, ALM PNW/Pexp, Doepfer A-151 Sequential switch, Happy Nerding PanMix Jr.

I'd love some feedback. My plan is to have the rack be complimented by external gear (such as the Arturia Minibrute 2s - 4 sequencers, 2 lfos, an extra VCA and an inverter), but would still like the rack to be a largely self-sufficient system. Am I heading in the right direction? Any functions or utilities that I'm overlooking? Any modules I should switch out because there are better, more readily available options?

Thanks so much in advance!