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Yes, they are pretty much unobtanium at the moment, no idea if any more will be made, Scott is currently releasing a lot of MKIII modules so it could be that this will never be made again, but I don't know that!
Scott can be very slow to reply, but he usually does eventually.
I would not place an order expecting anything to arrive any time soon.
There are lots of alternatives, although none that I know of that will match this particular expression!
Frap Tools Falistri, Endorphin.es Grand Terminal, Make Noise Maths, etc.
If you are looking for the Harvestman flavour, you could perhaps try the original Double Andore, there are a few of those around, but again, they are not the same, although some folk would argue the original is the better of the two if you like super snappy envelopes.
What was it about the Double Andore MK][ you were specifically interested in? I might be able to help!
You are correct. There is no doubt that many of these things can be achieved for a fraction of the cost and effort in software! For chords you are almost certainly better off with a computer and a synth that can respond to polyphonic midi.
My personal take on it is that I find software less immediate and I usually work all day on a computer so for me it is worth paying the price of entry into modular to get away from it to make music.
Obviously this is a personal decision that only you can make :)
I would say 2k is a good starter system, either off the shelf or build yourself (I don't mean DIY).
If you are interested in modular, I think rather than trying to go for this specific musical idea, you are probably better off choosing a system (Erica, Make Noise, ALM, Endorphin.es - depending on your musical style preference) for your 2k, knowing you are getting a complete very well thought out system that will give years of enjoyment and exploration, give that a go for a while, learn what the strengths of modular are and then see what else you would like to do.
Hey,
sorry there is still an issue with the email server. It seems the hoster kind of throttles MG emails returning SMTP errors.
We cache outgoing emails so important stuff should not be lost but there can be a serious delay (days) in the transport.
I am on trying to improve the situation.
...and speaking of recent hardware developments, you might want to have a peek at https://floppyusbemulator.com/product/n-drive-extreme-emulator-for-yamaha-sy77-sy99 No need to chuck that synth out because the FD is shot, and this sort of upgrade allows for MASSIVE storage of data that the FD could never pull off. My aim here is to eventually replace all floppy drives in my synths, samplers, etc with these; on something like my S6000, the ability to store multiple gigabytes of sample data on a thumb drive easily supercedes even the internal HD in speed and capacity.
-- Lugia
That's interesting. Also available in the UK from Amazon (if anyone's interested). However, it costs more than my SY77 is probably worth :-) Also, I don't use it and want rid of it. However, I do have some material on floppies which I'd like to save if poss. Interestingly, I no longer have a computer with a floppy drive!
I have equipment for recording.
Zoom H5, LOM Priezor, Mikro Usi and Elektrosluch Mini City.
And I thought about using Soundforge of course, but I hope a software exists for this.
I'll ask Paul Schreiber one day.
Garfield, I think we agree on this pretty much, I think you are right in that LilP should start more basic, if he wants a chord machine later on there are a few good ones. Study filters and when you find a filter you like, chances are Doepher is selling a clone of it for 80 euros. What I like about his rack is Plaits, I think he could have fun with that one. He seems to be going more west coast so additive may be his thing. Hysteria from Dreadbox is actually a very good oscillator, goes for a 100, has a quantizer, is additive in part, perfect for sync and stays in tune.
Ah okay, understand what you are saying, fair enough indeed.
Ha, ha, I might be one of those few people, stupid enough (that's rather a remark to myself than to other people) to try to do some polyphonic stuff with their modular (indeed I am using the Sinfonion for that as well) but of course you are right to say that most of it will be indeed monophonic.
Thanks a lot for your point of view and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I am not sure if I can follow you, perhaps you can define polyphonic so we talk about the same thing? :-)
I always thought that modular can be either monophonic or polyphonic, totally up to the user?
Thank you very much in advance and kind regards, Garfield Modular.
-- GarfieldModular
It can of course, you can do what ever you like, however a modular synth is of little use if you are only going to try and emulate a polyphonic synth with it. So for new guys who are met with this polyphonic discussion they tend to get sidetracked.
Doepher is marketing quad vco's, quad envelopes (although fun when chained, rather than used as 4 envelopes), and polyphonic controllers which I think are of limited use for modular artists. I'm not going to explain Polyphony for you since you seem like a guy who doesn't need the explanation. However in the context of Eurorack I just think there is a polyphonic snob going on.
I have the ACL Sinfonion which is a quantizer and controller for oscillators, a chord machine. However using it on many identical oscillators or a module with many, is something I would probably not do. Those are simply my own views on the matter, I use a Novation Peak and a Roland hybrid synth for my polyphonic stuff and I think I can safely say that's what most people do.
I think they're actually talking about data sonification here, not working with EM audio. The OP probably should contact Paul Schreiber @ Synthesis Technology directly to get this answered, frankly.
Must confess most of my music stuff has been in software for the last umpteen years. I'm thinking it would be nice to twiddle a few knobs as software is so hands off. So not up to speed with recent hardware developments.
M last remaining synth is a SY77 - if anyone's interested in buying it (needs new drive belt which I haven't got around to fixing.
...and speaking of recent hardware developments, you might want to have a peek at https://floppyusbemulator.com/product/n-drive-extreme-emulator-for-yamaha-sy77-sy99 No need to chuck that synth out because the FD is shot, and this sort of upgrade allows for MASSIVE storage of data that the FD could never pull off. My aim here is to eventually replace all floppy drives in my synths, samplers, etc with these; on something like my S6000, the ability to store multiple gigabytes of sample data on a thumb drive easily supercedes even the internal HD in speed and capacity.
i dunno they had a boatload of success from monotron up to the period you are talking about
-- euPothrou
Exactly my point. It doesn't matter if they kept hitting things out of the park with the Volcas, the Monotrons, the Mini and Monologues, the reissues of the MS-20 and Odyssey...all it takes is a string of really moronic moves, and gains even on THOSE levels can be negated. And the KARP 2600 FS is, as far as I'm concerned, one seriously rotten cherry on Korg's cake.
It's hard to believe that you could see a synth go from "most desired" to "most uncool" just by a massive marketing f**kup, but Korg managed it here. And I know of at least three retailers who, if they could wrap their fingers around the necks of whoever at Korg thought releasing only 500 units worldwide was a great idea, they'd squeeze until the "problem" got "dealt with", so to speak. Easily the greatest disappointment in synths since the Micor Coupland, and pretty much an invitation to Uli to come in and eat Korg's lunch.
It's not like you or 99% of the rest of the people waiting for a KARP 2600 were going to get one anyway. Without a doubt, the "reissue" of that synth is probably Korg's moment of ultimate, crowning stupidity amongst a series of gaffes, starting with the release of the NONsyncable KR-mini and KR-55 Pro drum machines. These could've been stock-in-trade machines for the electro and retro-disco crowd IF they'd had that...but someone at Korg seems to have lost their mind, and then continued losing it. There's the inherent defects with the Prologues, reissuing the FS MS-20 in ugly-ass colors for $1400 (the original wasn't even close to that!) when the market is already saturated with electronically-identical MS-20 minis, and so on. For me, the last "safe" Korg was probably the Minilogue; I won't drop good money on their new stuff now until I see some judicious and overdue firings in their marketing and artist relations departments (for starters!).
At this pace, those a-holes will probably next reissue the MS-50...in a limited run of 12 for $5,000 because...well, why break a moronic trend, right?
-- Lugia
i dunno they had a boatload of success from monotron up to the period you are talking about
Must confess most of my music stuff has been in software for the last umpteen years. I'm thinking it would be nice to twiddle a few knobs as software is so hands off. So not up to speed with recent hardware developments.
M last remaining synth is a SY77 - if anyone's interested in buying it (needs new drive belt which I haven't got around to fixing.
I think my re-interest in hardware is partly driven by nostalgia. Now I can actually afford most of the stuff I couldn't when I was younger - but really struggle to justify it :-(
Another way would be with Monome Teletype - it would involve creating a look up table for your chords and some programming to determine the probabilities, but probably a few ways to achieve this.
The Teletype will have more fine grain control and precision, the Harvestman will be more 'tweaky' and more fun to play :)
-- Kel_
Yes, that is a module all right! :-)
I've read the stuff on the site and watched some YT vids altho not read any of the manuals. Looks amazing. Not gone into it enough to decide if it can do what I'm after but I tend to think if I go down this route I may as well keep the whole thing in software.
Not least of all I can see it would be easy to drop £2K+ before I get off the starting block :-)
Anyone know where this can be bought? I've contacted local dealers by email, on Twitter and I've sent an inquiry through the Industrial Music Electronics contact form on their website, but haven't seen any response (Not saying there hasn't been any, it could easily be I've just missed it). Everywhere in my Country it's listed as out of stock or unavailable without any reason. I think it wasn't in stock even in other countries too. I'm worried if it was discontinued that I could place an order and be waiting forever for a module that'll never come, while I could be looking for an alternative. Does anyone know if it was discontinued, or if it's in fact still available? Thanks for any information.
Yeah, not sire off the top of my head how you could do the decisions like that exactly, but I bet there is a way in the Monome Teletype! Maybe ask over on Lines.
It's not like you or 99% of the rest of the people waiting for a KARP 2600 were going to get one anyway. Without a doubt, the "reissue" of that synth is probably Korg's moment of ultimate, crowning stupidity amongst a series of gaffes, starting with the release of the NONsyncable KR-mini and KR-55 Pro drum machines. These could've been stock-in-trade machines for the electro and retro-disco crowd IF they'd had that...but someone at Korg seems to have lost their mind, and then continued losing it. There's the inherent defects with the Prologues, reissuing the FS MS-20 in ugly-ass colors for $1400 (the original wasn't even close to that!) when the market is already saturated with electronically-identical MS-20 minis, and so on. For me, the last "safe" Korg was probably the Minilogue; I won't drop good money on their new stuff now until I see some judicious and overdue firings in their marketing and artist relations departments (for starters!).
At this pace, those a-holes will probably next reissue the MS-50...in a limited run of 12 for $5,000 because...well, why break a moronic trend, right?
Sorry missed this, but yes - totally doable, but will cost a bit!!
One way with Harvestman / Industrial Music Electronics Stillson Hammer and Argos Bleak.
Set the chords up on Argos Bleak
Set 4 steps, one each to the correct voltage to trigger the chord in Argos Bleak, then set to play on random on Stillson hammer MK][ for 25% probability. To increase the probability distribute the voltages across the number of steps in your sequence - think about what having two steps on the same voltage in a 5 step sequence on random would do to the probability.
-- Kel_
I've had a look at this - at last! :-) - and as best my befuddled brain can gather, this gives each chord a certain probability of sounding. In other words, each chord has its own probability which is in no way influenced by any other chord, particularly the chord that's currently playing.
Is that right?
If not, ignore the rest of this post :-)
What I'd like to try is for the current chord to affect the probability of the next one. Eg, if the current chord is C, then Am might have a 20% chance of playing and G a 60% chance. If the current chord was Dm, Am might have a 50% chance of playing, etc.
The desire for a MS-20 (or clone) is def a throwback for me :-) I lusted after one of these back in the day.
I had an original Roland 100M system but sold it when MIDI arrived - I saw the writing on the wall for analogue! :-) I don't regret it as I wanted polyphonic stuff. And not tempted even by Behringer's 100m-a-like.
I'm in the UK and most MS-20 mini sellers (ebay) want MORE than you can buy a new one for. Crazy. I wish my customers were as ignorant :-)
And I DO like the form factor as you say. The diff between a Behringer and the real thing over here is only about £180. The interest in the behringer was more a space issue and potential Eurorack connectivity.
At the time I also lusted after an ARP 2600. Really interested in Korg's re-issue - until I saw the price :-)
Oddly, I watched 3 demos on YT by Korg's Luke (I think), all basically the ame and done for different shops. Just scratched the surface but ultimately disappointing and cured me of my luisting :-) I just hope I don't see any really good demos... :-)
I'll vouch for the Mantis. I have two of them joined together with the optional mounting brackets.
-- farkas
Good to hear coz the Mantis is looking increasingly liley :-)
Also like the fact that you can join two. And good VFM.
The Putts look great but I'd struggle to put them in the VFM category :-) But I guess that is subjective.Or maybe more to do with the fact that it costs an arm and a leg to get into this before you actually start spending arms and legs... :-)
You'd also want a router to set up ventilation cuts in your cab's back, sort of like how 2Egress does with some of their huge Eurorack designs. And it's easy enough to put some fabric or foam covering on the inside there to keep random objects out of the cuts.
Or not. I had a really icky and unpleasant experience with one of Ashun's N.Am reps, put me right off that synth. I went with a Modal Argon8 instead...rather similar, with an extra oscillator per voice, plus the company is a LOT easier to work and communicate with. And the Argon8 is cheaper. You do lose that polyaftertouch + ribbon controller...but given that I've got a CS-80, I ain't hurtin' for a workout with those.
There ARE Eurorack modules that can standard-shift from Korg's standard to Euro and vice-versa, though.
Fact is, this is a bit of a throwback to the "bad ol' days" where there WERE a lot of different interfacing standards. Korg and Yamaha both used the Hz/V and negative trigger/gate standard, EML had their 1/12V steps, Moog had the awful, rotten, ROT-TEN S-trigger system, and things like the Buchla 100 were off in wackyland, with no real scaling and two different signal paths for audio and control signals. When MIDI came along, some of this was still going on...and remained as an annoying "latency" for those using the older gear. That we have to deal with these NOW is due to either exact replication (Korg's redux of the MS-20, or EMW's rework of the EML 200/300) or outright copying with no foresight to correcting these shortcomings (Behringer's you-name-it).
Do yourself a favor though, and grab an MS-20 mini on the used market (where there's plenty). Be careful to NOT buy an MS-20ic, though, as those were just gimmicky controllers for a software analog emulation system Korg kicked out many years back, and some unscrupulous/ignorant sellers try and foist these off as MS-20 minis. Look for the BLACK nut around the phones jack; the ic has a silver one. Anyway, even with the voltage standard issues, the MS-20 (of any sort) is a real face-ripper! It's hard to say what's the most fun about it, too...the VCF pair? The input section (drum machine + that = instant Aphex Twin!)? The fubar patching routings? Really, it's a fun little box, not to be idly dismissed. But do get the real thing; a lot of the point of that synth DOES depend on its form factor, which still works at 81% size.
If I was clever, I'd be tempted to make a case, too. Why do you need a router?
-- iantrader
To cut out wooden shapes for the case sides that are to my own designs. :)
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
I'll vouch for the Mantis. I have two of them joined together with the optional mounting brackets. They have plenty of power for my needs, enough connections for my needs, and are deep enough for my needs. I believe they state that the bottom row is 60mm or so deep, but with cables and everything installed it seems a little shallower than that. I would be hesitant to try to install any of the super deep Doepfer modules. Most modules fit perfectly though, just be mindful of module dimensions listed here on Modular Grid. I also like that I am not eating up hp with power modules.
It might not be cool to say, but the Mantis looks pretty good too. My wife calls it "the spaceship". I don't think I would feel comfortable taking it to a live gig, but it performs (and looks) great in the studio. I picked up a few Make Noise skiffs in case I need something more mobile.
If I hadn't decided on the Mantis, I would have definitely chosen one of the Pittsburgh Modular offerings. They are an excellent value.
Oh dear. Sorry to hear that. Do you think it's a general problem with the RackBrute or did you have a faulty unit? Arturia stuff usually seems pretty reliable.
Not used Bax. They have a great deal on the RackBrute which makes it tempting. Not tempting at its usual price :-)
If I was clever, I'd be tempted to make a case, too. Why do you need a router?
I'm also still confused about power supplies which is why I'd prefer one ready-installed.
uZeus seems to be one of the most popular but someone in another forum said they had problems with it.
SynthRacks recommends the TipTop Zeus Studio Bus. The dost for a 9U case is more than the case itself!!
The Mantis is probably currently top of the list although I'm still looking :-)
These are pretty advanced modules not the easiest to use, but they definitely reward time and patience and then become seriously good fun - definitely amongst my favourites!!
Final word, if you want 4 or even 6 voices that sound the same, get yourself a nice polyphonic synth, a modular is a wall of often very distinct and different sounding signal paths.
-- GunnarWaage
This!
Take a look a HydraSynth - very modular in it's philosophy with it's delightful and very comprehensive patch matrix and 8 voices, 3 osc per voice, plus mods, various flavours of noise, 5 LFO, 5 Envelopes... very digital and excels at glass/FM/etc., and while it is definitely not - it can sound very dirty and analogue and squelchy too, oh and built in effects that sound great... and true polyphonic aftertouch - per note!
I feel the polyphonic discussion is a little misguided, Modular synths are monophonic, if you want a polyphonic synth I use other instruments for that which are polyphonic. What is so spectacular about a modular synth are the harmonically rich and sometimes larger than life soundscapes you can obtain with a well constructed modular voice. Those types of sounds are not well suited to use in chords, you will simply need to strip down those sounds and make them more narrow, so now the whole polyphonic idea looks quite a bit different.
Think of a modular as a string quartet where you have different voices, each with its own distinct signal path and each playing a different role in your composition.
The 4ms 6 oscillator wave table module is an impressive piece of gear, it's pretty and it comes with a nice software that allows you to edit and morph between wave tables. For the price of it you could buy 4 different oscillators, take each of them through different signal paths and come out with a more rich orchestral overall picture, each voice obtaining clarity and definition, Check out Doepher, Dreadbox and other companys that make quality modules, the Behringer Neutron mentioned above is a very good semimodular synth, there you already have two voices and you can patch in and out of it in many different ways, for a wavetable synth check out Waldorf, I think you can get 3 of them for the price of the 4ms module. But you need to do your homework, nobody can tell you what to buy. Pretty much all the modules on Modulargrid are presented on youtube and going through that material is highly educational.
You need filters and/or low pass gates, a blend of the two is good, you need envelopes, you need vca's, a mixer that takes both cv and audio signals and with an output which is audio level, effects. Maths is good in that it has different functions, it's a slew limiter, a mixer and an attenuator. It can do a number of things, again a semimodular like the Neutron, although it is more of a east cost synth while Maths is a take on an old Buchla module, will serve you better in the beginning. But you need to study, there is a ton of material out there. Final word, if you want 4 or even 6 voices that sound the same, get yourself a nice polyphonic synth, a modular is a wall of often very distinct and different sounding signal paths.
You are welcome. Okay good to know that you don't have a (HP) space issue, then of course you can ignore all my comments regarding HP-space :-)
I am quite happy with my Doepfer mixer modules A-138p and A-138o. The A-138o is for the output and the A-138p provides you a four-channel mixer that's chain-able, and that's the part of it that I like most that you can just add another A-138p module if you need after a while more than 4 channels, you can add just another A-138p (no extra A-138o needed by the way) and you got 8 channels instead of 4 channels, etcetera. If I could effort it, I would have gone directly for the A-135-4A/B/C but it's possible to mix-up the A-135-4A/B/C with the A-138p, so you could start with the A-138p and in the future add an A-135-4A/B/C set to it.
Another mixer that might be interesting is the WMD - Performance Mixer, then you get straight away 8 channels and another 2 stereo channels can be added with the Channels Expand module.
Filters is really difficult and might be very personal as well depending on your personal taste. The filter I am most happy with is the Doepfer A-124 VCF-5 WASP filter and recently I rediscovered my Waldorf - VCF1 filter, if you get to know it, that one is pretty nice too, it's on offer at some dealers in Europe. Also the Doepfer A-106-5 SEM filter has its charms. I got an Erica Synths - Black Polivoks VCF as well but it somehow disappoints me, I usually like Erica Synths products but their filters can't convince me so far. And, bit of a cliché but last and not least... I have to admit that my current setup is a bit weak on filters (other than the above mentioned ones), I just can't find more/nice filters that make me totally happy. I have a bit the same with VCAs, can't find the perfect one, other than the Waldorf - DVCA1, that's by the way a fantastic dual VCA. I just ordered a second one because, though it's big in HP-space, it's seriously nice and good to use. No other VCA really had convinced me so far. The Erica Synths - Black VCA is quite okay as well but not as good as the DVCA1.
I am quite happy with my Intellijel - Audio I/O module, it's my main audio input/output interface module, the Befaco - Out v3 is not too bad either and has as a pro a headphones output. If you like XLR ins and outs then you should consider the ACL - Audio Interface that's a pretty good one too I think.
As some members mention here in this Forum: There is no real bad or real good, it's at the end totally up to you what you like and what you prefer to use. If you have an opportunity to test modules at a local dealer then you should use that opportunity, like that I could rule out some modules of which I really thought I would love them but at the end they were pretty disappointing.
I strongly would recommend to start slowly with a few modules only, build up experience with those. You not only gain experience with those modules but you already get a clearer focus for yourself where you like to look at more closely and from there you decide then to take a few more modules, again build up more experience, etcetera.
Have fun with it and enjoy modular, it's great! :-) Kind regards, Garfield.
Edit: Removed typos.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
I sent my Rackbrute 6U back and I'm currently waiting for a Refund from Bax-shop.co.uk it had overheating problems versus the simple Tiptop happy ending cases/power I already have. I won't buy anything from bax-shop again, even before Covid their email response was slow.
I need to find someone with a CNC router and I'll design and build my own, starting with the Tiptop uZeus power I have, then probably buy om Konstantlab Power at a later date.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Oops, forgot to say of course any sequencer will do the job in the first scenario, I was just saying what I personally use to do these kinds of things :)
Sorry missed this, but yes - totally doable, but will cost a bit!!
One way with Harvestman / Industrial Music Electronics Stillson Hammer and Argos Bleak.
Set the chords up on Argos Bleak
Set 4 steps, one each to the correct voltage to trigger the chord in Argos Bleak, then set to play on random on Stillson hammer MK][ for 25% probability. To increase the probability distribute the voltages across the number of steps in your sequence - think about what having two steps on the same voltage in a 5 step sequence on random would do to the probability.
Another way would be with Monome Teletype - it would involve creating a look up table for your chords and some programming to determine the probabilities, but probably a few ways to achieve this.
The Teletype will have more fine grain control and precision, the Harvestman will be more 'tweaky' and more fun to play :)
AFAICT, they onlyy do 84 and 168 HP which itself seems slightly bonkers, but 168 is too big for my space and 84 leaves a gap which would not be filled and therefore a waste.
The Intellijel are nice but not at those prices :-(
Always a compromise.
So still considering the Mantis (I could get two - 12U!) for the price of some 6U systems) and still looking altho I suspect I've seen every case on the panet now! :-)
