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First off, all your thought processes do make sense to me there so that's great. I took a crack at this and had dropped it over in the other thread, so let me copy all that here. The rack I built out is half as big as the one you put together, and has a lot of the starter modules that will help you learn so that something like the SSF Tool-box isn't so intimidating. From where you're starting I think aiming for 104HP in 3U is a good step, and will let you develop your understanding and comfort without spending too much cash up front. Anyway, see below.

@Nabroc I had a minute so I took your original rack as a starting point and made some adjustments:

Notes:
1) I don't believe the Mantis has a 1U row, so I removed that, but much of what you had there I replaced in other utilities.
2) The Ginko looks like a sick module, but I'm wondering if you have to code with it? Either way I might nab one.
3) I replaced the Erica Synths clock module with a PNW (which is really fantastic).
4) Kept the Ladik LFO, it looks sweet.
5) I added a micro Rings since you mentioned wanting plucks and strings and it's a really great Euro module.
6) Swapped in a Maths plus an Intellijel Quad VCA, Maths is great, can do EG and LFOs for you as well as attenuation/attenuversion.
7) Added an FX Aid since FX in the rack go a long way.
8) Added in a Happy Nerding Stereo Mixer as it's reasonable priced, three channels should be good, and it also has a headphone out so you won't need another module.
9) A contender that didn't make it into the rack above is the 4MS Ensemble Oscillator. If you're interested I can make a version with that guy in there, but tons of experimental range and can sound sweet and sugary too.

This comes in a good bit more expensive than what you'd posted, and I'm definitely using a few popular modules here, but I think it'd be a good starting point for exploration and that empty row at the bottom will give you lots of room to expand as you learn.

Thanks Garfield,

Yes you can dim the brightness of the LEDs for the sequencer by rotating the bottom encoder of the Euclidian Circles. I am still learning it along with my Eloquencer and Metron. I bought a lot on sales so the year will give me time to learn the new modules and then create fun music! I think that with several complex sequencers and plenty of drum and effects, the options are endless.

Probably stock up on expanders for my Praga and Hexmixer at next sale and get a WMD Performance mixer at next major sale toward end of the year and more support modules like VCAs, logic, comparator and a monster Doepfer case to put on my Doepfer monster base then all good.

Hi Sacguy71,

Oh that's nice to see that Christmas tree of a Euclidian Circles in action :-) Looks like a fun-to-play module, isn't it?

Any chance to reduce the brightness of those LEDs of the Euclidian Circles; small potentiometer for that or something? How tempting this module might be but if it burns your eyes out then I might need to reconsider it...

Ha, ha, indeed fun module for using in a club, then just get a bunch of 4 or 8 of those modules put them all together in a block. Put a camera on that block of those Euclidian Circles and project that on a huge screen, for sure everyone goes bananas ;-)

Nice one and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi CyberneticOhm,

Did you guys there on planet Tryondip 59E managed to catch one of those old Russian satellites that was drifting off? ;-)

Well, come to our blue globe and we show you some more modular stuff here. Meanwhile enjoy your Russian stuff, and hope to meet you once again during one of my hyper-spaced journeys! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

He, he, directly at the beginning that sound, I love that! Very funny and interesting sound :-)

Yes, absolutely, sequencers, percussions, the whole shebang together is great to play with! :-)

Enjoy your modular synth over the weekend and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks Garfield,

Yeah I can make long drone next time and record it even for you all.
The module with all the buttons is my new Acid Lab Maestro super modulator! It lets you setup six channels of crazy modulation sequences and chain them together. Super fun and endless modulation possibilities. The other new modulator that I use a little bit for accents is the Rossum Mob of Emus which can be 6 LFOs or 6 oscillators and combos and more.

Hi Garfield,

Both are very different sequencers in their approach. Eloquencer has more programming functions and is closer to the Vector sequencer. WMD Metron is a different beast- it can do basic things as well as more complex sequence patterns and save them like Eloquencer and Vector but it lacks reverse and probability features of these sequencers. Once I have more time and understanding of both then I will do a jam with both at the same time for comparison. I also have a smaller new trigger sequencer the VPME Euclidian Circles which is the opposite very bright lights that rotate in various colors and fun to create weird random patterns.
Here is a quick demo:

With the Euclidian Circles, it has an internal clock but that is hard to control and I prefer clocking it from a dedicated clock source like Pamela New Workout or Mordax Data. It is super bright enough to light an entire dark room so for a club scene would be fun.
I needed a small trigger sequencer for my 6u case after moving things over to the larger cases. Probably pair a drum voice like the VPME Quad Drum synthesizer or Endorphin.es Queen of Pentacles in the future for a small mobile beat boom box hehe.

Hi Sacguy71,

Yeah, nice drone! I will not tell Troux that you are missing here almost 14 minutes ;-)
Regarding that new "rule" that a drone must be 17 minutes long ;-)

That module with a half million buttons on it, what's that exactly? I only saw the word "maestro" on it.

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Yeah, and finally your Eloquencer arrived :-) So do I understand you correctly that the Eloquencer is ideal for more immediate usage while the Metron is the one for the complex sequence stuff?

Well, have fun with both sequencers and I look forward in watching a video of yours where you demonstrate them both at the same time! ;-) Thank you very much for sharing and kind regards, Garfield.

Ok @troux
This is what I came up with and of course its expensive as all hell just like I feared. I tried to think of options that gave me more variety. I didn't find SSF Toolbox, so I looked it up and honestly, I wouldn't even know how to use something like that. Like I said, I'm not that versatile in the knowledge of modular. I'm pretty basic when it comes to sound design. For instance, if you look at a few of my tracks below on my YouTube channel, I am VERY basic lol hence why I have been practicing with VCV Rack, but even then I still don't know how to use things SSF Tool box, or how to even work something like Maths to its full potential.

What I DO like about this build is that, I have all the functionality of things I want and know how to use. The quad vca is super helpful, as well as the triple lfo. I added a step sequencer to replace the lame S&H I had, and found a different basic 1U module that has S&H plus a noise generator. I still have the same Clock because I wanted a visual when it comes to tempo readings, plus i just like how it looks easy to use. I kept the Dual Attenuverter from Befaco, but if I have Maths as well, I have more options to attenuate/invert/slew signals, so I'm kind of debating on if I should just keep Maths and toss the Dual Attenuverter? (shrug) and the two random ADSR's, well, I just didn't see a whole lot of options when it comes to more functionality in 2 or less modules, so I just added the two by them selves. might add 3 if I can fit it somewhere.

As for the Oscillators, I wanted two basic ones that were cheap, one waveshaper by Erica Synths because I like their products, and I want it for more gritty/nasty sounds. As for the Instruo modules, I chose the Saich for super saws because I love making plucked deadmau5 kind of synths that arpeggiate, and that one is perfect when added to the right filter. Which btw, I love the Instruo filter, so I added that as well, but if you have better options on filters, let me know. I also added a fixed filter bank for more filter options. As for effects, I just wanted a simple delay and reverb, so I chose Chrono Blob, and Springray. And last but not least, I added a sampler just for extra effects, plus I've never tried a sampler before, so why not right?

So that's what i got.
What do you think can be added, taken away, replaced, etc?
Do you think a build like this is more or less versatile?
Should I have plenty of modulation options and functionality for the things I want to do PLUS more?
Or am I way over my head trying to do much with too little or vice versa?

Hey @toodee,

thanks for your comment. Even with the factory vegetables (lol, wavetables ;)) the phmk3 is a fantastic module!
It's versatile and has broad spectrum of sound, nearly like no other wt-vco....

Best,
jingo

EDITED Jan 10th 2021, 00:11

One more note, a contender that didn't make it into the rack above is the 4MS Ensemble Oscillator. If you're interested I can make a version with that guy in there, but tons of experimental range and can sound sweet and sugary too.

@Nabroc I had a minute so I took your original rack as a starting point and made some adjustments:

Notes:
1) I don't believe the Mantis has a 1U row, so I removed that, but much of what you had there I replaced in other utilities.
2) The Ginko looks like a sick module, but I'm wondering if you have to code with it? Either way I might nab one.
3) I replaced the Erica Synths clock module with a PNW (which is really fantastic).
4) Kept the Ladik LFO, it looks sweet.
5) I added a micro Rings since you mentioned wanting plucks and strings and it's a really great Euro module.
6) Swapped in a Maths plus an Intellijel Quad VCA, Maths is great, can do EG and LFOs for you as well as attenuation/attenuversion.
7) Added an FX Aid since FX in the rack go a long way.
8) Added in a Happy Nerding Stereo Mixer as it's reasonable priced, three channels should be good, and it also has a headphone out so you won't need another module.

This comes in a good bit more expensive than what you'd posted, and I'm definitely using a few popular modules here, but I think it'd be a good starting point for exploration and that empty row at the bottom will give you lots of room to expand as you learn.

@GarfieldModular Hrm. I'll check the embed settings on that.

Fixed on my end.

EDITED Jan 8th 2021, 19:39

>
I want to conclude by reiterating this general question: given the stated aim (the ability to generate a broad palette of interesting "experiemental" and evolving timbres and textures; generative patches; loads of modulation; loads of flexibilty; both control and room for the unexpected; a unique, personalized instrument), am I actually falling short functionality-wise in the sense of failing to realize the aim? I grant that the aim could be achieved differently and with smaller modules, but that's another matter.

-- wrecksmoondee

I think each of us has a different definition for "functionality," so your approach to a unique, personalized instrument is vastly different than mine, which is great. Yes, this will likely do the things you want unless your idea of experimental evolving textures includes sounds that you would find in something like the Spherical Wavetable Navigator, Panharmonium, Rings, or other wacky digital modules. I like some stuff like that, so your plan wouldn't be quite as functional for me.
Either way, it seems like you have a good understanding of synthesis. Dive in. Buy some modules. You'll know if your plan is a good one once you start patching. Have fun with it!

And maybe in the meantime @Lugia will grace us with one of his patented Expert Builds 👀

Looking forward to seeing it!

@troux @lugia
Thank you. I'll do my best to revamp my build.

Nice, sounds like you have a good idea of where you want to go and the fact that you've been working with VCVRack is great. Now it makes sense that @Lugia gave you an "Ok" rating on your 3U row, his "Ok" being most people's "Well done" lol. So, next steps, the Mantis recommendation makes sense and seems to be the general path forward, but since you're just starting out I'd limit my initial buy to 104HP and then grow from there. If you set this rack aside (but keep it for comparison) and make a new rack with @Lugia's advice in mind, working to maximize functionality to HP, you should get pretty close and then we can review again. SSF Tool-Box is a great suggestion, and I'd also suggest you take a look at some of my favorite modules for this stuff, Kinks, Links, Cold Mac, Zadar, Batumi, Ochd, Intellijel Quad VCA, and of course Maths. Now, don't pick all of them of course, but a few would go a long way here!

@troux @Lugia
Basically, I've been practicing with VCV Rack. I use lots of modules with those exact functions. I just wanted something familiar. Not expensive. I want to be able to make kick drums, classic/experimental synth sounds, some bassy stuff, plucky synths, and that's kind of it. Its all I know really. Im not some wizard of sound, i just wanna make beep boops and be able to control it the way I know how. does that make any sense?
My goal this year was to build a modular system that I can use to create dance music that I make. I like to make house music with moogish drones, and plucked synth staccatos, strings, and bouncy bass, all that stuff. But i also want the luxury of experimental sound. Thats why i had a Sample and hold, so i could trigger it with a clock, send the signal to a atenuverter, send that signal to a quantizer, send the quantizer to a V/OCt, and generate some random tones. I dunno. just beep boop stuff.

EDITED Jan 8th 2021, 15:35

@Nabroc, we've all been there, my first rack got radically revised on here too, and in particular did get much bigger. Could you start us off by sharing what you're aiming for here? Ambient? Noise? Classic modular sounds, or maybe just to explore? That should help us send you in the right direction.

Considerable changes...here we go... ...and it's still 100% Doepfer! Whatcha think? -- Lugia

Considerable changes is a considerable understatement; it's a radically different instrument! Before I go in to why it won't be my instrument, I want to thank you for taking the time to complete this exercise--it's like crosswords or sudoku, isn't it?--as it's helpful for bouncing ideas around.

I'm gonna bang on this a bit and see if I can up the functionality in some other ways as well...even while staying 100% Dieter here. -- Lugia

So, having studied your model briefly, my impression (and this could be founded on my own inexperience) is that more has been sacrificed than has been gained.

In opting for a "larger system" (15U is nothing to sneeze at, I think) I don't think I should have to sacrifice ergonomics to the slimline series, so I've deliberately avoided those. They were designed, according to Dieter, for situations such as the little beauty cases that people like to put together. I'm happy for a few fewer, but easier to "handle" modules. And, again, I don't think much (if any) functionality is lost in my case.

Some of the more interesting VCOs that I think would have offered a more interesting timbral palette (especially the A-110-4 Thru Zero VCOs) have been lost; this deviates from the basic aim of the build, namely interesting timbral variety.

The only thing that I can see that's got an exponential response is the A-138 in the lower cab. -- Lugia

I intend to use this as the final output, plugging either a pair of headphones into here or using a longer cable with a 1/4" adaptor to go into my external passive mixer (Art SPLITMix4) which connects to the home stereo system. From what I've read online, it's common to use the A-138 as the final output. Also common, from what I've read, is people using linear VCAs almost exclusively, even for audio, contrary to the received wisdom in lin=cv, exp=audio. So I think I'm going to try my luck with linear VCAs and adapt if the need becomes obvious.

Added an external input/envelope follower for processing external sources. -- Lugia

This, instead of the FX insert that I plan to use to bring a few interesting pedals into the signal path. You mentioned you were torn about the this module, but I'm keen the keep it along with the reverb and bit crusher, which latter ought to prove interesting for cv too.

And the 2/3/4-position VC Switch is down at the end of the sequencer, where it needs to be to shift from dual 8 to single 16 CV row behavior. -- Lugia

My impression is that the A-150 Dual VCS is sufficient for shifting from dual 8 to single 16 CV row behavior on the sequencer. Is that not the case? That would free up the s/3/4-position A-151 Sequential Switch for more interesting applications.

Plus, by swapping the sequencing modules to the "flat" row, you now have the system's primary controller where it belongs. -- Lugia

I've read that the sequencer or controller may not fit comfortably in the "flat" row due to the power supply; I had originally intended to place it there until I read that. It's not a dealbreaker for me at all.

So, I want to thank you again for engaging in this exercise with me. Given my resistance to your radical revisions, I imagine it might feel like thankless work, so I want to make sure I have enough gratitude buffer in here.

I want to conclude by reiterating this general question: given the stated aim (the ability to generate a broad palette of interesting "experiemental" and evolving timbres and textures; generative patches; loads of modulation; loads of flexibilty; both control and room for the unexpected; a unique, personalized instrument), am I actually falling short functionality-wise in the sense of failing to realize the aim? I grant that the aim could be achieved differently and with smaller modules, but that's another matter.

Cheers Lugia!

Damn .. way to rip my heart out and feed it to me...

But I guess you're right. I'm new to this stuff. I was just going for "affordable". I don't expect to get it right the first time. I thought building a system was easy and that something like this would work together nicely. I'm truly disappointed and now I feel stupid. Will you help me?

EDITED Jan 8th 2021, 14:41

Hey, pretty nice tune right there !

Love my PHmk3, that thing is bonkers, sounds kinda plain but I really love those faders, genius to place them there, makes the module really playable once you get to know the WT (or come with your own). Its great set of features, large sonic palette on offer and fantastic interface design makes it well worth the asking price IMHO.

^^ This is definitely even sweeter!

Thank you all for your fast replies!

Seems like the Sinfonion has won and I have to save some money in the next months..
Even though the NDLR also looks interesting, I didnt knew about that one, thanks! @Lugia

@GarfieldModular
Thank you for your detailed description! Definitely made me even more interested in that module and sure I know that the price has it reasons and that the sinfonion can be hell of a machine in the right system.
But this is also still one point that makes me feel sceptical about buying the sinfonion.

I've seen another post somewhere, where also somebody said that you will need a bunch of other modules before you can use the full potential of the Sinfonion.
I've just started one year ago and my rack is still a rather small one.
So what exactly does the sinfonion like to be fed with?
When I use the polyphonic mode of my Qu-bit Chord I have 6 voices/oscillators in total.
Unfortunately I don't really have a lot of utility modules so far.
In general my system is a rather simple one and I'm afraid that the sinfonion is too "big" for a system like that.

I really like Azewijn, you got some interesting sounds in that!
And about the woman in the video, I will keep an eye out, maybe I will find a creepy abandoned building with a nice system in it one day :-)

Thank you all again!

+1 sharing from me - https://www.facebook.com/yalivec/posts/3804352696269856
Thanks for the great work!

Good to hear from you Garfield,
Glad you enjoyed dEON.
Unfortunately is now quite as advanced as yours on Mother Earth. Most of our equipment is 1950s Soviet Bakelite transistor valve doo wop...

Outstanding! Maybe one day my modular skills will be solid enough to contribute some music to a future edition :-)

Hi jingo,

No worries. The PHMK3 on my wish list- for now been loving my crazy Hertz Donut, Schlappi Angle Grinder, and Rossum Trident complex oscillators. Those keep me busy for 2021.

Thanks Garfield,

Both Metron and Eloquencer are superb sequencer modules!

My Euclidian Circles v2 also arrived:

Very fun trigger sequencer and those lights are so bright they could light up an entire galaxy! I find it better to use an external clock for tempo as the internal clock is not precise. Anyways, 2021 will be the year of the modular sequencer and percussion modules for me besides the new effects like 4ms Dual Looping Delay and Noise Engineering Desmodus Versio. I still would like a multi-function FX module like the new Synthesis Technology E520 Hyperion processor or the 1010 fx box. Maybe end of year I get those as well as the mixer expander for my Befaco Hexmixer and Xaoc Devices Praga plus WMD Performance Mixer.

The only thing that I can see that's got an exponential response is the A-138 in the lower cab. However, since most everything IS linear, what you might consider would be to yank the A-130-8 and replace it with the A-132-4. This is a similar module with four exponential VCAs, and losing the other four linear VCAs really wouldn't be an issue if you dropped the A-138u for an A-132-1 to replace two that you'd lose. This would then give you six linear VCAs and four exponential.

Another idea would be to drop the A-138u, move the A-183-2 to where it was, then swap the A-133 for an A-133-2, thereby opening another 8 hp. At that point, you could then move the A-130-8 to that newly-opened slot and then put an A-180-2 mult next to it. This then takes you to 12 linear and four exponential VCAs...MUCH better.

I'm gonna bang on this a bit and see if I can up the functionality in some other ways as well...even while staying 100% Dieter here.


That was interesting...I still felt constrained by Dieter's module sizing + a few missing "go to" modules that weren't Doepfer, but I think these beefed up pretty nicely. Considerable changes...here we go...

ngin, Row 1: Added an external input/envelope follower for processing external sources. Then I put the buffered mult next to that, and added a dual slew limiter for portamento (#2 has direction selection). Eliminated some of the VCOs so that I could add a Quad VCO with a Quad VCA, which allows you to CV the mix of the four VCOs. A-110-6 remains, but then there's a uPVCO which is there as a "driver" for the PLL module. These last three generators are more or less intended as individual voice oscillators, but there is a small 4-in mixer there to allow mixing, if desired. After that is the Wave Mult I.

Row 2: Quad LFO with a 4-in mixer, which allows you to blend up complex modulation in a minimal space. Then the VC Delayed LFO went in, more or less an upgrade because of the delay circuit...very useful. I kept some of the quadrature functionality in with a VC Quadrature LFO; you don't necessarily hear quadrature relationships in audio, but for modulation, well...that gets interesting, with the ability to mess with phase. There's a point to it in a bit, same row. Then the A-143-1, and after it is a dual VC Polarizer, which allows you to tamper with modulation results even further. I made some significant changes to the VCF lineup, also...starting with the VC Xpander VCF (replaces the SEM VCF, as the topology for its 12 dB LPF will essentially be the same) which gets tandemmed with the VC Dual Crossfader (hence the Quadrature LFO) which allows you to "morph" between a few different VCF topologies, resulting in some potentially-complex VCF behavior that wasn't there before. Multimode VCF next, then your LPG.

Row 3: Noise/random/S&H starts this off, using that as a replacement for the original noise source to save some space. Then the VCS clones and the VCADSR. After that, I added two more non-CV ADSRs, which now brings the EG complement up to seven EGs totalled. Then the Bit Mod and Spring...although I admit to being a bit torn as to whether the Pedal Interface might've been a better fit for BOTH of these, allowing you to employ external processing for both slots. The BIG fix is next, though...you'll notice the Quad Exponential VCA right next to the 4-in Performance Mixer (and its output module). This NOW lets you have a stereo output from the synth, plus you also have an AUX send/return on the Output module so that you can parallel-process an effect (spring would work well with that). And you also get CV over your mix by patching each of the Exp VCAs to a corresponding Performance Mixer input. Again, you might consider using the Pedal Interface in both of these 8 hp effects slots, as this would then let you slot in any sort of pedal for both...and you can STILL use one of those as an AUX insert with the Performance Mixer.

ctrl Row 1: There's the A-149-1/2, then a Diode OR for combining gates...which is useful for various trickery with the Boolean logic module. A-152...then the Octal Linear VCAs, as these are better suited for CV and modulation, hence the relocation to the "ctrl" cab AND their relocation next to the Matrix Mixer, which then lets you have a similar CV capability as the audio mixing setup in "ngin"...but with VCA control over both the outs AND the ins of the Matrix Mixer itself, if you desire. A switched mult is next, which I added to help with performance-type CV bus switching on the fly. After that is the Dual Quantizer...so the Switched Mult can behave as a manual "router" for your quantized CVs between two different VCO groups.

Row 2: The clock mods are now paired with the Sequencer control for ease of patching. And the 2/3/4-position VC Switch is down at the end of the sequencer, where it needs to be to shift from dual 8 to single 16 CV row behavior.

Now...while making these changes, I tossed a lot of the less-densely-functional modules while trying to make sure that those functions were being replicated elsewhere, so that the functional density (and potential) of the build could be upped while losing as little as I could manage. A few functions didn't exactly make the cut...but not many, because once you start diving into how a lot of the added modules work and what they're capable of, you'll find that most everything from the original builds are still present...and by mashing the crap out of the space, it allowed me to drop in things that really up the capabilities of the build. Also, you'll notice that everything is function-grouped now, running left-to-right and up-to-down on signal flow. This also keeps the end of the audio at the bottom right of the "ngin" cab, making the entire "ctrl" cab purely control-dedicated. Plus, by swapping the sequencing modules to the "flat" row, you now have the system's primary controller where it belongs.

...and it's still 100% Doepfer! Whatcha think?

EDITED Jan 8th 2021, 07:13

My concerns here are that there's too much attention being devoted to aesthetics and not enough to functionality.
-- Lugia

Thanks for your feedback, Lugia. I hear you, and I reckon that I could cram more in a smaller space by mixing and matching. But given what I've presented here and the stated aim, am I actually falling short functionality wise in the sense of failing to realize the aim?

To fill in the background a bit, I can confirm that I will be the only audience; this is a hobby instrument for my own pleasure, so aesthetics has its place; and I think the risk of an endless search for novelty/increased functionality is a real one--folks confess/lament it frequently, so I think a strategic buffer against that (by aiming to stick to Doepfer) might be wise.

Note, though, that you can get away with only linear VCAs in a build as long as you have exponential EGs to make them conform to the exponential loudness curve. -- Lugia

Any insight into whether these Doepfer EGs are exponential?

EDITED Jan 8th 2021, 03:55

Kudos to you too @GarfieldModular, thanks for you track and for helping to keep this community going.

My concerns here are that there's too much attention being devoted to aesthetics and not enough to functionality. Doepfer modules are really excellent...but they're often pointlessly big, an issue which Dieter has been working on fixing with the new, smaller modules.

Take the A-141-2, for example. ONE single CVable ADSR in 14 hp, costs $190. But then, look at the Livestock Leap...also one loopable and CVable ADSR, but which ALSO offers offset and inversion. So, right there, you'd wind up eliminating the A-141-2...AND the A-183-2, AND half of the A-133. And it costs $5 less.

The real power in Eurorack and the plethora of modules that exist for it is in being able to mix and match things. Sure, it looks cobbled-together that way. But you can effectively jam MORE functionality into the same space, and in quite a few examples, you can save money while doing that. I wouldn't suggest making the various modules smaller in this size of build...but I do suggest that you can wind up with a far more potent system by NOT locking yourself into a certain "look", and building more along the lines of maximum capability. In the end, nobody cares what your system looks like, but they sure as hell will know that building for more function will equal far more musical flexibility...and THAT is what an audience looks for.

Oh, yeah...explaining linear and exponential...with LINEAR VCAs, envelopes, etc, you're imposing a change on a signal that follows voltage scaling. If you need to change the voltage scaling so that everything still tracks properly as far as CV values, you use those. It's also why linear VCAs are almost always DC-coupled, because they fit better at modifying CVs, modulation, etc. EXPONENTIAL VCAs, envelopes, etc, though are AC-coupled, as exponential relationships are what governs how we perceive "apparent loudness". Remember: the decibel scale is a LOGARITHMIC curve of values, and NOT linear. Note, though, that you can get away with only linear VCAs in a build as long as you have exponential EGs to make them conform to the exponential loudness curve. See here for a more in-depth explanation of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness

Thanks Garfield,

Yeah the WMD Metron is really fun! I am still learning it but not that bad- the Voltera and Axxent are key for adding spice to patches. I like being able to see multiple track sequences at one time and to quickly change all 4 tracks instantly on the fly with quick touch on the pads. Also can save the sequences on the SD card for future use and use random and probability patterns, add accents to beats. It really was made for percussion! That said, I also received the excellent 4ms Dual Looping Delay which is a super fun module for adding massive forward and reverse delays. Here is a video on it:

I did get carried away and it sounds more like space alien video games but that was the intention to make drums sound like something else. I am really enjoying the WMD percussion modules- very unique and can do traditional drum beats or weird stuff.
Also got first Hexinverter Mutant drum module the hi hats which is great. What can I say: sequencers, modular eurorack mixers, percussion modules and effects modules are super fun!

More like "I can't wait to blow money on something that won't work, no matter what".

OK, let's see...first up, you've got Intellijel AND "standard" format tiles in the same row. Big no-no. And given the Intellijel format tiles + the case's form factor, I'll venture a guess that this is a 4U Intellijel skiff...and it will be very interesting when that Tiptop uZeus gets dropped into a case that already has power. And what's with all of the buffered mults with only two VCOs? You DON'T need those.

The 3U row is...OK? I guess? Save that it clearly suffers from this "tiny build" problem, and there's a lot of misimplementations in there. Some of it is commendable...the Ladik Harmonic LFO, for example, is a really undersung device. But just ONE envelope gen between the VCF and two VCAs just doesn't cut it.

First up, kick the idea of building something this small right to the curb where it belongs. Just looking at this, I can see a number of places in here that WILL "fight back" as you try to patch through them, and quite a bit of this appears to result from the compromises being made to construct something in this form factor. So, dump this case idea, for starters...and go with something that makes more sense as a starter cab, such as a Mantis. You'll then have a very affordable 208 hp in which to reattempt this. This will also allow room for larger, more easily-tweaked modules where, at present, you've got this mix of those beside others that are just too tight. Also, you can then implement the PROPER amounts necessary of specific modules, such as EGs. And you can use the extra module space to put in "composite" modules that do way more than the basic small ones in here at present. For example, you currently have a single sample and hold that takes up 4 hp. But if you have just two hp more, you could (and SHOULD) yank that and replace it with a SSF Tool-Box...which then gives you sample and hold, rectification, a comparator, a diode OR, an inverter, and an electronic switch. THAT is how you deal with space constraints; leave the one-function modules for those builds that have WAY more space than this.

Save your money and delete this. Instead, spend your time and effort on trying to come up with something much more comprehensive and in a larger case. The latter will actually help with the former there, btw. And DO NOT just cobble together modules...take the time and study needed to examine ALL possible grouped functions, the form factor, ergonomics and so on ALONG WITH the basics that you want/need in there. These things are pretty costly, even when small...so take the time to do this RIGHT before you pull out the Magic Plastic. Takes longer, more effort...but results in far less buyer's remorse in the end.

Hi Sacguy71,

he, he, yes! Just saw this video in your other post. So glad for you that your Metron arrived. Looking at your videos, you are happy too with your Metron! :-)

Enjoy the Metron and its modules and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Yeah! Your Metron has arrived and you immediately made a nice movie and track of it so we can see the Metron directly in action! :-) Great work!

So what's your first impression? Looking at the video's it's good? :-D To me it looks brilliant!

Have fun with it and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Steve, All,

Steve: Brilliantly done and thank you very much for your efforts here! :-)

I am going to listen at this in the weekend, bit too busy this week.

All those who provided input for this album: That's superb, I am going to have a fantastic weekend, just because of you! Thank you!

Modulargrid: Thanks a lot for publishing this on Facebook :-)

Kind regards and oh man, what's modular lovely! :-) Garfield.

When I took my first tour of modular synths back in 1998-2002, before taking a break from making music due to life factors, I had a Doepfer system of this same size. It was terrific, and this looks terrific too. And I think you're right... having one manufacturer to focus on takes some of the G.A.S. out of the equation, and also makes the system look and feel cohesive. Enjoy!

the only sensible advice to take in modular, is to buy a bigger case than you think you need, buy fewer modules than you want and grow slowly = there is no need whatsoever to fill the case immediately
-- JimHowell1970

Precisely. For one thing, users invariably want more modules...especially if they've put together one of these mini-builds and come to realize how limiting the damned things are.

I also think that there's an inappropriate "game" mentality going on with a lot of new builds...they all seem to have this unfortunate idea built into them that the builder HAD TO get this right on the first try, otherwise...well, I dunno. If you can build a Minimoog in a 24 hp Pod, perhaps you win all the Interwebz? Whatever the mindset, it's erroneous and dumb, since those of us who live with these devices on a day to day basis KNOW that you'll NEVER nail a build (any size!) on Try #1. Even WE can't do that!

Consider: when Walter Carlos (at the time, now Wendy of course) was working on "SOB", even HIS custom Moog modular wasn't truly "complete". He was still working directly with Bob Moog to get things to be more "instrument-like" with the instrument. And there were a lot of things we now take for granted (like CV latching, for example) that had to be developed over a span of YEARS. So in a sense, there's no such thing as a "completed" modular...even today.

Hi Amliw,

I totally agree with you that the Sinfonion is completely bananas expensive, there are no words for describing how %&^(#*^# expensive the Sinfonion is and just don't buy it, saves you lots of money and you can buy so many more modules from that money, right? So who needs a Sinfonion? ;-)

Of course I am joking but yes the Sinfonion is expensive but no, it's seriously worth it, what I am trying to say here (my above text), that yes with the money of Sinfonion, you can get so many other nice modules but not really what Sinfonion can offer you here. Don't expect wonders from it either but if you are ready for the next step into more complexity, yet harmonised and get the things kind of organised (well.. when is something really organised within Eurorack, never I guess? ;-) ) then the Sinfonion might be actually the right module for you.

But before I continue: Hey, did you saw that woman just walked away at the end of the movie and leaves a very interesting modular synth there in that crappy building? Run fast and see if you can get that synth for yourself, perhaps she hasn't returned yet! I mean... come on... who walks away from a system like that and leaves it unguarded? (assuming the camera man wouldn't be there of course). Well at least Hélène does ;-)

Anyway, back to the Sinfonion. Bit more details then, with the Sinfonion you have 3 channels that you can use for your "regular" voices, each channel has a slightly bit different extra functionality compared to each other but the main functionality is about the same. Then you have another chord channel, it only requires one input but gives you up to four outputs to play for example (that's how I like to use it) with a polyphone module like the Doepfer A-111-4 Quad VCO. Last but certainly not least is the arpeggio channel, I love to use that one, very flexible in it's use.

That might not sound very complicated but it exactly gives you so many possibilities and complicated ways of using it harmonised or even unharmonised if you like (detuned). You can have slew option on channel 1 and on the chord channel. In my demo "The Cry Of The Modular Synth" you are hearing there that "Cry" sound using partly the slew option in combination with channel one. I am only using channel one here for this track (so "barely" using the Sinfonion actually):

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9397

The other voice you hear in that track (more kind of LFO driven sound) that's not done by or via the Sinfonion.

If you want another example of the Sinfonion I used, take this track here:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/8749

I fully utilise the Sinfonion here with all it has: 3 channels, channel 1 in A/B mode as well, chords, and the arpeggio. In that track I didn't used any keyboard or whatsoever to put "notes" into this track, that was mostly done by the Sinfonion. You just give it some bizarre sound and Sinfonion spits the notes (and chords) out you prefer, brilliant!

These are only two examples, I am not sure if Hélène is actually using a Sinfonion but if she would then that would be some other examples, but you can do so many various things with a Sinfonion, it's almost endless.

One thing to keep in mind though, it's not a sequencer in the classical way, it actually isn't really a sequencer; ACL likes to call it a chord progession sequencer and that's exactly what it is, the "only" thing you can sequence with the Sinfonion itself are the chords, all the other channels can't be sequenced, at least not by the Sinfonion itself. But that's not the idea of the Sinfonion anyway. See it more as a kind of master control of your entire rack getting all your stuff channed into the Sinfonion and get it a bit nicer out of it :-) Harmonised, quantised, whatever you like to call it. For details please download the Sinfonion manual, it's in English and it's written with some nice kind of humour. The manual will give you a good idea of what is possible, but actually that's just the beginning of it, what you are going to make out of it at the end might be way beyond what has been described in the manual and the Sinfonion is the tool for you that allows to do just that.

So yes, it's expensive but I have never regretted it. If I have to sell a few of my modules, the Sinfonion will be one of the last ones!

Though having said that, please do keep in mind that the Sinfonion becomes the black hole of your entire modular synthesizer! It sucks up any of the modules you have, it's very module hungry, because you need to feed it with inputs, so it can processes the sounds you provide it and then spits it out again and then it might again cry for more modules to do funny bits with the output. So you must have tons of modules (that's a bit the con of the Sinfonion) and Sinfonion will "slurp them all up" :-) Hence the reason I call the Sinfonion the black hole of my modular synth!

Have fun and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

+1 for the Sinfonion here...yeah, it's spendy as hell, but you've got to consider what it IS. Multichannel sequencing quantizer + "theory engine" ain't gonna be cheap. F'rinstance, I've got a NDLR here, which definitely covers that "theory engine" aspect, and even though it's just a little desktop box, it was an EXPENSIVE little desktop box. You get your money's worth with the Sinfonion, tbh.

I'm not sure if my old ears could tell the difference, but it may be nice to have the option.
-- farkas

I think that the VCA portion of the A-101-2 Low Pass Gate is exponential, so that ought to at least give me a sense of the flavour and provide the option if needed. Thanks for pointing me towards more info!

I'm not sure if my old ears could tell the difference, but it may be nice to have the option. Lugia could probably break down the science of it for you, but changes in volume sound unnatural with linear VCAs if I remember correctly. Here's some additional info:
https://learningmodular.com/linear-versus-exponential/

Start off with the linear VCAs, and if you decide you need exponential, that's what you'll end up buying next. The beauty of modular! :)

Have fun.

Sounds like you have a great plan, and I'm sure this system will give you many years of excellent service!
-- farkas

Cheers mate. As you pointed out, there are no exponential VCAs here; I'm hoping to get by with just linear. Based on your experience, is that feasible?

Sounds like you have a great plan, and I'm sure this system will give you many years of excellent service!
I only have a few Doepfer modules myself, so hopefully some of the other users will chime in with specific module recommendations (or warnings).

Hi wrecksmoondee. Looks like you have just about everything you'll need.
You are off to a great start here, though I wouldn't recommend buying everything at once. If you just buy a few modules at a time, that will give you the opportunity to adjust your plans on the fly to incorporate modules that may be a better fit for the type of music you want to do.
Have fun and good luck!
-- farkas

Hi farkas, thanks a bunch for your feedback.

Maybe some exponential VCAs (unless I overlooked those) and additional attenuverters, though the matrix mixer may work for inverting signals. > -- farkas

It's true, no exponential VCAs here; I'm hoping to get by with just linear, I guess. Is that feasible? If not, what should be dropped instead? There are a few polarazers there and I also have a couple some passive attenuators (basically little external patchable volume knobs) that I hope will do the trick for inverting and/or attenuating signals.

Will you be adding any external effects? -- farkas

I have a few quirky pedals that I plan to bring into the signal path: Chase Bliss MOOD, Pladask Fabrikat, Red Panda Tensor and Particle.

Also curious if you are only interested in Doepfer, or will you be researching other manufacturers too? As much as I really want that A154/A155 combo, but there are very capable sequencers in a much smaller footprint. -- farkas

Currently, I'm planning to stick with Doepfer; this for reasons both strategic and aesthetic. Strategically, I hope that sticking with Doepfer will be a buffer against getting lost in a constant search for novel modules--there's just so much out there and I would always wonder if the next thing is better for me. And I bet there's a lot to discover right here. Strategically, too, I think working with Doepfer's building blocks will provide a deep education in modular synthesis and "patch programming". Aesthetically, the look and consistency appeal to me. I reckon it's like how some folks dig going for all Serge or all Buchla or whatever.

Thanks again for your feedback!

Hi wrecksmoondee. Looks like you have just about everything you'll need. Maybe some exponential VCAs (unless I overlooked those) and additional attenuverters, though the matrix mixer may work for inverting signals. Will you be adding any external effects?Also curious if you are only interested in Doepfer, or will you be researching other manufacturers too? As much as I really want that A154/A155 combo, but there are very capable sequencers in a much smaller footprint.
You are off to a great start here, though I wouldn't recommend buying everything at once. If you just buy a few modules at a time, that will give you the opportunity to adjust your plans on the fly to incorporate modules that may be a better fit for the type of music you want to do.
Have fun and good luck!