Building Blocks for larger Racks?

Hi,

I'm looking for possible building blocks, which provides useful functions for larger racks.
VCOs, filters, effects and so on may be placed around these building blocks ...

I've created three alternative versions (each in one seperate row).

Which one's would you use and why? What would you change? More VCA's or other things?

Thanks and best regards,
Ralf

None of them.

First up, when building a full system, working in "blocks" like this is going to result in a system that doesn't reflect your actual signal flow. It's best to group things by function than by what can be stuck together in these blocks. For example, if you've got something in there that could benefit from having a quadrature LFO (like "strumming" a Veils), well...since you've got these blocks but they don't have a quadrature oscillator with the exception of the Batumi/Poti pair...but at that point, you're using ALL FOUR LFOs in that to do what ONE module that's not in these is capable of. And that's just one example.

Secondly...what's with all of the buffered mults? You really only need these for distributing CVs to oscillators, filters, and other modules that need a CV without voltage sag. The sag results from having too many devices on the same CV source, so you use buffers to "regenerate" the CV. But you DON'T need six of them! In a small build, in fact, using 24 hp on JUST mults is a terrible idea; small builds are better served with inline mult widgets or stackcables, and if you have more than four modules that need properly-scaled CVs, THAT would be the only reason for using only ONE of those.

A far better approach here to building on MG would be to start with a fullsize cab that's larger than you need, populate that, then start paring things BACK. But work on the whole thing at the same time, not in chunks like these. Start with a 3 x 104 cab, then once it's populated, pare this down so that you wind up with TWO rows of 104 hp. It's 100% doable, and generally results in outcomes that are more usable.

If you're coming from a background that has a lot of "semi-modular" patchables or keyboard synths, I can see how this concept emerged. Keyboard synths are, after all, built in "blocks" like that. But this ain't your dad's Joop-6 here...this is an "open environment" that, while grouping modules will be a must, blocking out everything BEFORE the full build process is on just won't work out very nicely if one of these blocks can't "play nice" with the others.

Thanks Lugia for your input.
btw. each row was to be meant as a building block, which stands for itself - not all three together.

Perhaps I should have better asked, which modules (LFO, EG, Mult, Atten., VCAs, CV generators) would you like to combine in 100 hp order to get a flexible, versatile and the most universally usable combination.

EDITED Feb 8th 2022, 16:42

Can the Rossum Satellite be used on its own ? I was under the impression that although it could be used without a Control Forge after presets are transfered, one would need the Control Forge to create at least one batch of presets, right ?

And with regards to the question at hand, I think it's really hard to come up with something generic because, well, it's modular, we all have different ways to patch and different needs.
For example, it's very likely that we would end up with at least one of the main cascading quad VCA, Intellijel or MI for example, but which one ? Some will prefer sliders and the slightly smaller footprint, some will prefer the Intellijel for the cascading CV or the boost switch, some like me will not be able to decide and grab both, there is no right or wrong there, so which one would you include in a generic build and how to indicate this can be replaced by X or Y or Z depending on the user's exact needs without that discussion turning into a book like Patch & Tweak ?
So it's a question of which functions rather than which module, right ? But which functions indeed ? It depends on what you'd want to interact with the rack, which is also very subjective. Live tweaking or pre-programming ? Modulating more with gates or LFO or random or agnostic ? straight clocks or shuffly wobbly ? Like menus or hate 'em ? Depending on the answers one is probably looking at different type/classes of modules.
I feel like this discussion, if it were to remain generic enough, would end up looking exactly like Jim's signature:

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine!!!
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

And even then, I may put an equal sign between "modulation sources" and "utilities" because that's the balance I like to have at hand. The best advice that can be offered to newcomers, IMO, is not really about what to buy:
1. RTFM & Research
2. Buy slow (ok this one maybe)
3. Plan bigger
4. Experiment & Explore

Hi toodee,

thanks for you input.
Yes, perhaps the question is too generic, I understand.

I'm on the way to make a bigger studio eurorack, not for life performance.
Thanks!

btw. yes, satelitte can be used stand alone. But you need a control forge in order to create own modulations.

EDITED Feb 8th 2022, 18:33

Hi toodee,

thanks for you input.
Yes, perhaps the question is too generic, I understand.

I'm on the way to make a bigger studio eurorack, not for life performance.
Thanks!

btw. yes, satelitte can be used stand alone. But you need a control forge in order to create own modulations.
-- rama1065

Cool, sounds like an interesting project :-)
And then by all means, do follow the advice given by our friendly Lugia and post the current state of your project to a new thread and get specific advice for your needs, making clear what you already have and how you use it, as well as what you hope to achieve moving forward. Then you can use that advice for more focused research, keeping in mind that it's almost always better to think in terms of function rather than specific modules IMHO.
Looking forward to read that future discussion (and learn from it, of course) !

Take care,
D

I'm looking for possible building blocks, which provides useful functions for larger racks.
VCOs, filters, effects and so on may be placed around these building blocks ...

I'm on the way to make a bigger studio eurorack, not for life performance.

-- rama1065

then start with a much bigger rack and try to think along the lines set out in my signature

I don't see a lot of what I would call basic building blocks of modular synthesis in the above racks

I see more 'synthesis with modules' as opposed to 'modular synthesis'

Hi Rama1065,

If you consider the "building block" concept idea then please have a look at a picture I made a while ago and I shared before:

How big each "building block" would/could be, I leave that up to you, for example each at 84 HP. In such example if you would have a monster case then one row of 168 HP could consist of two building blocks. Naturally a few blocks can be merged together to save space too.

Hopefully this will help and kind regards, Garfield.

Edit: I forgot to mention this below link here in the forum, it's discussing this similar topic, perhaps interesting for you?

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9489

EDITED Feb 9th 2022, 00:27

Or, another possibility is that the OP's simply looking at the wrong synth format. What he's describing after clarification sounds a lot more like what you'd find in a Serge format system. Granted, Serge IS more expensive...but the over-the-top flexibility of the system is a part of that. And when you start breaking down the full and half-panels into per-module numbers, the cost isn't really all that horrible...you just have to get past the fiscal stumbling blocks of buying the panel sets.

EDITED Feb 9th 2022, 02:01

yeah, yeah, I bought already a lottery ticket but so far nothing...

re serge: you can always buy them from random*source in modules - one at a time - some are available DIY too - but might not be for long - otherwise there's Elby in Australia that do serge like stuff iirc!

when I see building blocks I mainly think basic functions - lfos, vcos, filters, delays and a shed load of utility modules - something that you can use to 'patch anything up with' if you know what I mean...

EDITED Feb 9th 2022, 02:55