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Intellijel Quad VCA is super awesome for VCA module. I have no experience with ALM Busy Circuits Tangle Quartet but that looks super duper for VCA as well.

Yeah, the idea there was to put the Rene in so that it can work as either a sequencer OR a touchplate controller, depending on what a patch called for. Plus, the Rene has some neat interactivity when running that could be rather useful. This is also why the matrix mixer is right next to it, since those can also function as a sort of controller for altering CV behavior on the fly. FX Aid XL, definitely! Happy Nerding's really cooked up a WIN with that module.

Well, I use a Tektronix that's rather like that (but beefier, plus it's a linear supply) for my AE system, but you'd need something that has discrete +12 and -12 outputs, and I'm going to venture a guess that that Kungber probably doesn't, despite the panel markings.

THIS, however...https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bel-Power-Solutions/HCBB-75W-AG?qs=gCHJnwMCk7Sa%2FhsO6vvSjg%3D%3D Well, it's a linear supply, outputs +12 and -12 at 1700 mA and 5 at 6A. More expensive than a switcher, too. But it's also pretty much the last power supply you'll need for this cab. And if those current specs are still too low, there's a couple of other models that up the +12 and -12V rail current.

It's also worth noting that these Bel units look an awful lot like the OEM ones that Synthesizers.com uses...

Good suggestions @ModLifeCrisis

I have a Nifty Case and really like it. It fits nicely on my desk, which I appreciate and has just enough room to do something cool with. Looking at your module choices, they are quite similar to mine.

I think it's a good choice to have an analog oscillator, which I don't have in my case. But I do have Morphagene and Maths and a filter, in my case Ripples.

If I had my time again, I think I would not have bought the filter. I very rarely use it, which is surprising to me. Looking at your case, if it were me, I wouldn't bother with Blades - perhaps an Optomix, which would give your two VCAs and (sort of filtering), plus a mixer of sorts. I wouldn't bother with the Disting either (too fiddly for me).

If it were me and I wanted to do purely ambient I'd swap out Blades and the Disting and get a Mimeophon or Beads, some LFOs and some Random. Not sure how that fits in with your HP, but it might fit.

Of course these are only my opinions and I'm new to this so take everything I say with a pinch of salt.

Best of luck and happy shopping. MLC.

EDITED May 10th 2021, 21:14

Have you considered adding any VCAs? I have the Tangle Quartet, which is affordable, works nicely and doesn't take up too much space. Or the Optomix from Make Noise could be fun. Or Veils from Mutable Instruments. Best of luck, MLC.

and to quote myself
"Utilities are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the shiny, expensive modules actually shine and stops them tarnishing!"

Agree 100% with Jim.

For modulation, I am having a blast with Acid Rain Technology Maestro it gives you 6 channels of modulation goodness and lets you record and chain patterns of LFOs in various formats. It is great for live performance and really fun to use!

I use kinks/links and WMD/SSF toolbox for a lot of utility functions. Those are great in little HP for a smaller setup.
Mixers- lots of choices based on budget and size. Befaco STMix is really nice and same with Happy Nerding makes on as well.
I use an Intellijel Mixup in my travel case.

Yes lol, also you made me think of another one that @JimHowell1970 always says "Make sure you can modulate the modulators."

“These three cool modules + Pam’s New Workout is not a working modular synth”

But more serious, not sure if some manual, or written guide is stronger than any of those sexy minimal Modular Synth YouTube videos.

I think I might've suggested this before, but we seem to have a pretty solid set of starting advice, to the effect of:

1) Get a quad cascading VCA
2) Get a Links and a Kinks
3) Aim for 1/3 utility modules
4) Get one of the numerous DUSG knockoffs (Maths, Rampage, a real DUSG, etc)
5) To start slow, add one sound source, one filter, and one effect (e.g. Dixie/STO/Plaits, Polaris/QPAS/Ripples, FX Aid/Morphogene)
6) Pick a reasonably priced 6U 208HP case (Mantis or something similar)

I'm probably missing a few things but if we had a sticky thread with these ideas collated I think it'd help speed up people's journey a bit. What's everyone else think?

for about the same price you can get a doepfer lc6 - or for a bit more an lc9 - these are both significantly better starter cases than the beauty cases you are aspiring to... get one of those if you need to fit it in your handbag once you actually know what you are doing.. but start with a case you won't be replacing in 3-6 months!

it is not just missing vcas it is missing all utility modules - whilst you may be able to get a limited range of sounds out of this I suspect it will not meet your expectations

add a quad cascading vca (veils for example) and a basic starter utility set of links/kinks/shades and put it all in a 6u or 9u case

you will then have room for expansion when you realise that you are missing lots of things you need/want in order for the modular to be worthwhile

otherwise dump blades and/or morphagene - replace blades with a smaller filter - to make space for some utilities

the same could be said for maths - but - working your way through the illustrated manual a few times is a very good learning experience!

What do you guys think? Is it worth it to put expensive modules in a nifty case?
Will it lack cv modulation or vcas? I plan to sequence it with a Digitakt.
I am in between starting with niftycase or intellijel 4u 62hp and a similar arrangement (minus the disting ex).

you can try it but I think the volume coming into the rack will be too low and it will be too high coming out - you coould try veils which has 20db of gain available and a passive attenuator - or a dedicated i/o module, if you have issues

using MS20 for modulation will probably work - depending on the signal - may need attenuation or amplification to get it where you want it!

Thanks for your tips and feedback!

To start of this journey I wouldn't really mind to use it as static effects. I was planning to take for instance a chord from the REV2 going into my mixer then take a send and return channel to send it to the 914 and take the output back to a mono or stereo input on the mixer. All the send / aux channels on the mixer are mono anyway. But there will be a problem with the audio levels that way?

On the Springray i think i dont need much modulation I will use it more like an amplifier. As for the Shapeshifter and Lyra8 I do see the need for modulation. Would the MS20 be an option?

links/kinks/shades are not cv sources (well there is one in the bottom 1/3rd of kinks)- they modify cv

Maths is a great modulation source especially if you work your way through the illustrated manual a good few times - great intro to patching (and self -patching) modules

if you think : sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

remembering that a sound source may be 1-n vcos or a complete voice

you'll be on a right track

modulation and utilities are where the 'secret sauce' in modular is hidden not in the cool shiny modules

how would you use more than 1 mixer: sub-mixer for audio -> filter -> vca -> main mixer (to combine with other voices), matrix mixer (can do send/return or modulation mixing etc) - you need more than just a final stage mixer!!!!

I have a rebel technology mix02 and a tesseract modular tex-mix for stereo mixing - both are fine - remember that you will probably need more channels in the future - tex-mix is good a god option as it is expandable!!! - currently mine has 8 mono channels and 4 stereo channels - I expect to add at least 8 more mono and maybe 4 more stereo channels + direct outs for recording - which will have cost about €500 in total - I diy them from full kits - all smd done already!

EDITED May 10th 2021, 12:58

Thanks heaps Jim, lots of awesome ideas & stuff to look into. another newbie question: as far as links, kinks etc-type cv modulation sources go, does maths not cover me for that? or is it just a case of 'more is more' with modulation sources?

Also how would I typically use more than one mixer & can you recommend a solid (cheap) stereo mixer?

Cheers
Fraser

I would skip the small case and go straight to the larger one - this is probably almost unusable for what you want - audio levels will be wrong for starters and there is no modulation or utility modules to leverage the effects you have into anything other than static effects - unless you turn knobs manually - which is a great idea, but you loose the interesting parts of modular - complex modulation

I'd also consider mono/stereo issues

Personally I'd always want a vco and lfo in a modular, even if it were predominatly for effects - something cheap and analogue will do nicely - doepfer basic vco for example!

you need mixers, vcas, envelope generators etc

Hello guys

I am new in the world of modular and I would like to share my initial idea to start a small rack. I did some research and want to start with an 84hp tiptop or behringer powered case for 4 modules. And maybe upgrade to a 104hp case when I decide to add a beads module.

I make dub / dub techno and already own a bunch of synths and guitar pedals. But iam looking to expand my sound palette. I have a prophet rev2, some behringer synths, MS20 mini, strymon and eventide effect pedals. This is all connected with an analog mixer. So i guess Iam sorted with sound sources and mainly looking for sound / effect processors with my modular case.

I like the sound of a FFB to process some chords and pads to make an ambient atmosphere. I also own a spring reverb tank, which is connect via send and return on my mixer. But it lacks volume so a Springray should be an obvious choice. Lyra-8 seems interesting for processing chords and maybe drums. I do own a Timeline and Boss RE-20. Would this add another sound to my delay palette? Also the Shapeshifter seems to be in interesting new sound source for chords / pads. Can this be a standalone unit? Or do I need more vca or lfo modules to really make this work? I do have the ms20 which can be a cv control for this module? And an RD-8 which can provide clock and steps from the sequencer as modulation source?

I like granular synthesizes as well. So I might change the Lyra8 for a Mutable Instruments Beads. Or if I like the sound and workflow of this 84hp I might upgrade to a 104 and get both lyra and beads.

All tips and feedback are welcome. Would this be something interesting to start of? Any other recommendations for chord / effect modules?

Thank you all for the suggestions. they are very helpful. As mentioned I will start "small and simple" and i have already sketched up new case -

redundancy is not necessarily a bad thing - there are multiple functions that you will want more of than you think - vcas/mixers/attenuators - as they are incredibly useful for both audio and modulation

you need vcas sooner rather than later - I would go for a quad cascading one - veils perhaps

voltage block is already quantized though so you can drop the separate addac quantizer

something else missing is utility modules - these are probably more important than voices (although you need voices) as they will allow you to merge, modify and multiply modulation sources - and therefore make them more interesting

I would recommend - links, kinks and shades as a good starter set - other modules are available that will do the same thing - but for the price and size it's hard to beat these - wmd/ssf toolbox might be a good alternative to some functionality along with other modules to cover the rest - but don't underestimate doepfer for utilities - they are often exceptional value for money

also that roland env gen/lfo is quite big for what it is - maybe batumi and/or zadar would fit better - especially in a 9u case (good case choice btw!)

EDITED May 10th 2021, 10:28

I noticed screenshots of wider racks (anything above 119 HP), the image is always cropped I tried different racks and width:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1551097.jpg

-- metrowave

This should be work now, thanks for reporting!

fx - get an fx aid xl

they are incredibly versatile and good value for money - get the xl for more modulation and btter ergonomics

Rene always strikes me as more hands on than hermod - I would read the manuals for both carefully and watch some videos before buying one or the other

SO when I came here I didn't suspect that much help for a newbie like me and now I got a full rig composed!!

My goodness, this is crazy. Thank you so much for that, Lugia. I love it. I have no idea what some of this do, but this only gets me more excited to find out.
I will start collecting those modules. One thing is that for now I only have Arturia's Rackbrute 6U and it's smaller
than tiptop mantis. I guess I have to replace?

It may be a stupid question, but how does Hermod compare to Make Noise Rene ? I've heard some good things about both of those, I guess the workflow is entirely different (and Hermod is more "live-setup" oriented?). The touchplate controller in Rene seems to be a dealbreaker for me, really useful.

I'm digging through all this modules and I'll order Veils next.

I'm also wondering about effects - Microcosm, Magneto and things like that - is it better to buy them as standalones?

This is amazing, thank you!
Arek

EDITED May 10th 2021, 08:42

Out of curiosity, is it possible to repurpose something like this as a PSU for modular?

https://www.amazon.com/Kungber-Adjustable-Switching-Regulated-Adjustments/dp/B08DHZ2X2Q/

I haven't bought anything yet – just planning & costing it out. The verbos is the module that made me decide to get into modular as I love its sound.

I have an octatrack that I plan on using to sample the modular's weird sounds and sequence them into musical ideas, so this modular doesn't need to have much standalone rhythmic potential at this stage. Also won't be using it live.

My main priorities for this rack are nice deep interesting evolving textural sounds, and some basic bleep bloop sequences.

I've tried to keep costs down for some functions to compensate for the verbos, malekko sequencer and potentially a more expensive delay (three most important parts to the sound I think). The case will most likely be a doepfer LC6 PSU3.

Does this make sense? Are there any redundant modules here? Any utilities etc that I've neglected? Any module recommendations that would better serve my needs? How important is having a dedicated clock?

Thanks very much for helping out

EDITED May 10th 2021, 06:58

Yeah, just to confirm -- after further testing it seems very much to me that it isn't linked to a specific module. At one point I thought I'd isolated it to the 4MS PEG, because when I turned off the "cycle" buttons, the buzzing stopped. But further experimenting and swapping of modules made it clear that the reason it stopped was simply because the power draw of having the LED buttons in the "lit up" state on that module were pushing the overall load above whatever exact threshold it is where the buzzing starts. I was able to take out a module or two and then operate those buttons w/ no noise issue, or remove that module and still replicate the buzzing if enough other modules were added. But again the issue is that the power draw of my modules is nowhere near the specs of what the PSU should be supplying, I'm below 25% load on both +12 and -12.

Going thru some of these steps after checking the flying busboard connectors themselves ... all the ones I checked seemed to register +12, -12, and +5 appropriately. Now checking independent modules but bear in mind that the buzzing noise would become present regardless of which modules I chose. It seems to be more related to whenever more than about 10% power is being drawn on the 12v rail or 20-ish% on the negative rail, so far I’ve been unable to link to it a particular module but been able to replicate the buzzing w a variety of different modules, once there are enough of them. Nothing is drawing on 5 at all which someone suggested to me could be part of the issue since it’s a Meanwell psu and they have some issues if nothing is drawing on 5 i guess. But i dunno what i’d do about that —- I have no plans for any modules that would draw on the 5 at present.

One other point about those 2hp VCAs: you have no mixbus between them. If you go with things such as Happy Nerding's 3XVCA or Mutable's Veils or Intellijel's Quad VCA, you ALSO get a mixer thrown in for "free". And this can come in handy quite often; fact is, you should always try and look for additional functionality whenever possible, as this ups the build's capabilities while keeping the "sprawl" down.

Of course, it's worth noting that my finest bass patch of all time (it DAMAGES things!) was programmed on my Casio CZ-101. It's not always necessary to go with modular, after all...

As far as linear P/Ss that'll do a good job with modular in general, keep an eye out for some used Acopian ones. You might also try getting one new, but keep in mind that that'll cost more.

O-scope? Check this: puAAAOSwXzdgXmcI" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/174707999737?hash=item28ad6883f9puAAAOSwXzdgXmcI Notice that this also has X-Y capabilities, which is a must; you can then not only use the 'scope for working on gear, but also to check mix phasing via the X-Y display. Check this article out: https://transom.org/2016/its-a-phase-youre-going-through/ So even if that GW Instek isn't what you're looking for, keep in mind that you want a DUAL-trace scope that can do that X-Y display for stereo phase checking; if you do any sort of banger tracks, knowing what your low end is doing is essential, especially if you're planning to press a track to vinyl.

EDITED May 10th 2021, 01:43

Seems to be a problem with all wider racks.
-- erdgeist

I have reverted some changes wich might be the cause for the problem. Does that fix your problem?
-- modulargrid

I noticed screenshots of wider racks (anything above 119 HP), the image is always cropped I tried different racks and width:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1551097.jpg

Hi Karolziober,

Welcome to Modular Grid and modular synthesizers :-)

You have already quite some interesting modules in your rack planned. I agree here with Zuggamasta to start to slowly fill your rack, don't buy everything in one go.

A few remarks about your planned rack:

• To start straight away with 4 the same VCAs from 2 HP, might be not a good idea, as Zuggamasta already mentioned if you put them next to each other you are not going to have a comfortable access to your modules. Another thing to keep in mind is that you shouldn't start straight away to order double modules. Get experience first with one of them, see if you like it indeed that much and then consider a second, same module; however not directly start with 4 the same VCA modules. You could consider other VCAs as well. The VCAs I love to use are Patching Panda - Punch (nowadays Punch version 3) and the Waldorf - DVCA1 (getting sold out though); but of course there are other good VCAs as well
• Though the Erica Synths - Black Octasource is a serious fantastic module, it is one, not to be recommended for beginners, it's a tough one to tame so to speak. I would recommend to add that module later to your rack, when you are ready for some crazy fun :-)
• For the setup you have here, I feel you are missing a few oscillators of the "normal sort". The Telharmonic is a great module but extremely difficult to put it into the direction you want it to go, I would not recommend it to start with; you can add it later when you gained some experience with modular synthesizers and when you think: "Now it's time for a module I will barely get under control" ;-) It's actually not that dramatic but I do think Telharmonic is better to get started with when you gained some experience. I don't have any Noise Engineering modules myself so I can't comment on that oscillator you planned here, might be totally all right. There are quite a few members who love Noise Engineering so you should be fine with those. But other than these two (Telharmonic and Loquelic Iteritas) I don't see any oscillator, you could consider to add one more oscillator (and not yet that Telharmonic), which can be either a rather standard oscillator, say the Doepfer - A-110-1 or a more fancy one like Mutable Instruments - Plaits; up to you (or any other oscillator of your likings)
• You might want to have a look at filters, yes I see you have the QPAS there, a good one indeed but just having one filter in your rack becomes sooner or later a bit boring, you might want to look into at least a 2nd filter, if not a 3rd one for future extension
• Those 3 passive multiples of Doepfer, the A-180-2s, mwah... look at my website and read those review reports about multiples. I haven't tested the A-180-2 yet because I don't have one yet but I would recommend to go rather for two A-180-3 buffered multiples than 3 passive multiples like the A-180-2. Again, here applies the "same rule" that I would recommend to start with just one module, if you are happy with it, get either the same one again or consider another type and brand. So start with one A-180-3 for example and gain some experience

Overall you have here a nice rack, with some adjustments you can have a lot of fun with it. Good luck with the planning and if you want yourself to do a real favour, start straight away with a 3 rows 168 HP rack :-) The space you will need sooner or later. Kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Edit: Removed typo

EDITED May 9th 2021, 22:52

I'd suggest to get the case and then start building it up from there. I had a good time slowly and steadily filling my initial 98hp and can already use it for my kind of tunes.
One suggestion for your row of VCAs there are some 6x VCAs like the zlob CNICURSAL VCA you need 2hp more but I'd argue you get a lot more playability. The 2hp trim pots right next to each other are close to not manipulable with jacks connected. Also you get a sum out so it acts like a CV controlled mixer, too.

It seems like you have plenty of LFOs and a good delay in the rack (the Soma) so I'm wondering what's not working about those? Do you find you still don't have enough LFOs? And is the Soma disappointing you or do you just want more?

Editing to add that I see now this is a planned rack not a real one, so I'll second all the responses below. Cascading VCAs, another filter, and some good analog oscillators feel like nice additions, and going slow is always good advice.

EDITED May 10th 2021, 03:53

Ahh, nice! 👍

Hey Garfiled, happy to hear that you enjoying my jam.

I was planning to do produce my own circuitboards, and panels but thought I rather spend money on actual solid modules rather then keep sinking money in new PCB layouts or miss drilled front plates. I'll still keep my CAD files and see if I can produce them some other day.

DIY/RACK-wise I'm now set up with 104hp of modules and 98hp of space. My plan is still to either build a 6U Rack from Z-Rails or add a second befaco skiff which could be nicely bracketed to the first one. The most recent DIY build is the fantastic LL8 from robaux in an advance to permanently move away from the midi-in module of my rack. More on that soon.

keep patching and take care

EDITED May 9th 2021, 15:21

Really like the dark mode. Great work. Thanks.

Seems to be a problem with all wider racks.
-- erdgeist

I have reverted some changes wich might be the cause for the problem. Does that fix your problem?
-- modulargrid

Perfect, it’s working now.

this sounds great.

JLR,

thanks for measuring the .vco .
I got one of the few Frac format custom STG .VCOs and was wondering about the power reqs for it.
Thankfully i dont need to do any other calculations

i have used theabove technique for many years in the DAW.

have ordered the A-160-2

next week i will get a D.o.m.i.x.x mixer module from Bloodcells audio
and i finally can start to use my Eurorack system

Hi All,

This is my first thread so let me say Hi to all of you :)

Im new into modular world but i have some experience with sound design and music in general.
Right now im trying to complete the initial mockup of a rack that i would like to build.
The purpose is to create music without computer - the computer would be used only to record and do a post production.
I do not have any sequencer choosen as i completly do not know what will fit my needs so for starters i would go with korg seq 64 i think.
I aim for ambient/ electronic music (Abul Mogard; Alessandro Cortini like).
The area where i struggle is selection of utilities: envelope generators (although i have the maths, tides and doepfer); lfos and a good delay.
I would like to ask for a review of my current selection and a little bit of guidence :)

link to rack -

Thanks in advance,
Karol

Seems to be a problem with all wider racks.
-- erdgeist

I have reverted some changes wich might be the cause for the problem. Does that fix your problem?

If you are diyer you can build a Kassutronic quad attenuverter / mixer.
Basicaly the first attenuverter provides +5 -5 v when nothing is patched at the input.
And there is a build option to do the same with the 3 other.
All of them are summed at the sum output.
Use center detent pots.

Erogenous Tones Levit 8 do it well too.

Cheers

I hadn’t thought about it from a recording perspective.

The demonstration scenario I saw for this technique is literally all in a DAW (Live) with a VST sine as the source and sub, and a copy of that source/sub then routed to literally anything one might imagine usable as a distortion / waveshaper. They illustrate it with IZotope Trash2 which is certainly a distortion unit, but also with compressors super overdriven to become nonlinear and distorting. Actually that’s kind of the magic of this technique, is that with enough input gain into the subsequent processor you can get all kinds of grit and nonlinearity from processors you would never really expect to use as distortion. Then on the back end you use filtering and level to get just as much sizzle bright or harsh as you want. And all of it it very dynamic/playable and all of it tracks the source pitch perfectly. It’s an exciting and bottomless technique IMO, one I need to keep remembering and practicing.

Glad it’s of interest to you. Yes check it out!! Cheers, NG

BTW from producerdojo.com I learned an interesting technique which is basically distorted sine sub bass. Step 1: have a pure sine tuned to your sub frequency, which gives you a very controlled and very powerful fundamental. Step 2: mult that to another pathway, distort the hell out of it to taste, highpass filter it so you can add it on top of your pure sub without problems, and do other filtering plus leveling for control to taste. The results are i) you get a powerful controled sub ii) you get a fizzy or nasty top you can mix in to taste iii) you can CV or otherwise change the top for lots of expression / variety iv) everything tracks pitch, gliss and dives perfectly. I've done this in VSTs but not yet my eurorack setup, should work fine in eurorack.
-- nickgreenberg

That technique may stem from the way bass is usually recorded. Duplicate tracks, one low-passed stays clean, the other hi-passed gets distortion.
Sounds like a very interesting idea to apply that to the Eurorack mindset. I'm definitely going to try it.

Ah it works again, great, listening again :-)
-- GarfieldModular

Ha ha! :) Good news! Glad you liked it. Regards, MLC

Hi,

I don't know what the current draw is for the +12v eurorack version is but FWIW below is what I measured for the +-15v 5U version.
75 mA +15V
27 mA -15V
0 mA 5V

At least that might give you an idea? It will probably draw more current at the lower voltage of +-12v so below is a calculation based on the numbers above but . . . . I may be wrong so don't quote me! ;-)
94 mA +12V
34 mA -12V
0 mA 5V

John

Ah it works again, great, listening again :-)