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I've long fanatasized owning a Buchla Easel but with some surplus gear, have been thinking of a filling a spare Rackbrute to achieve maybe the same thing, just without the keyboard.
What do you think? The big difference is the spectral processor but other than that, I already have the Sport Mod (pulsar), Maths (envelope generator + more), the NLC is based on the Easel's wavefolder (this could also be the 208 Timbre DIY but its not on Modgrid yet), URA (for multi-randoms on the Easel). Disting is just there because of leftover space and well, Disting's are amazing...
This would get me the instrument (with more capability, but less keyboard?) for about $3,000 less!
In addition to Jim's advice, I'd invest in a way to integrate with VCV, as there's a ton to discover when it comes to generative and VCV willgive you all the scopes and modules you'll ever need to figure out what modules to buy. I'd also de-prioritize trying to make everything fit neatly into a case because you don't know where you'll end up - none of us do!
Vult will be releasing a Eurorack version of their Caudal VCVRack module soon - it's like a better Triple Sloths and has two S/H outs. O_c has various awesome quantizer features that allows you to scale mask, CV rotate those maskes, linear shift register and CV shifts to other scales. Befaco a*b+c is awesome for 'tuning' your CV, or maybe add some cheap 1u Duatts for the same purpose.
Agree with Sweelinck, you have a lot covered with your choice of modules. Maybe an O_c to give you some more options on quantizing, sequencing, LFOs? Also maybe replace one of the granulars with an ES-9 and tap into VCVRack and it's endless options. What kind of stuff do you like doing with it?
Lot's of really good advice here. I've been going at the generative stuff for 3+ years now and other than the general rule of creating modulation and ways to trigger events from it (comparators) IMO the real key lies in the ability to 'tune' the randomness - i.e. lots and lots of attenuation + offset.
Looking at your rack so far, I'd say it really needs random sources and ways to tune it.
For modules, a few more recommendations:
Caudal from Vult. Soon to be released in physical form (it's a module in VCV rack currently). It will provide two rows four smooth randon voltage outputs. Each row can be clocked to give stepped random output (S/H) and all in 1oHP.
S/H: RND STEP from SSF/Divkid. 3 cascading S/Hs but gives uni and bi-polar outputs - uni so you can use it better for sound sculpting.
Zadar from Xaoc. Says it's an envelope generator but it's not - it's an LFO machine that's particularly good for generative in that you can loop them and CV one paramter for each of the 4 LFOs (2 if you get the 3HP expander and totally worth it).
AxB+C from Befaco. My favorite module for attentuation and offset. Also a ring mod. The dials just make it really easy for me - especially for dialing in LFOs or smooth random that then go on to feed into a function generator for Krell patches. I have a Caudal protype with a Befaco on either side for this very purpose :)
If you get an external input module with an envelope follower like the Doepfer A-119, you can use that to modulate effects. That module also has a compartor which produces a gate, which can also trigger events related to whatever sound is coming in. I'd look to adding more things that can convert audio to CV in a rack like this - utilities all the way!
Since you're already using VCV, why not get an Expert Sleepers ES9 so you can compliment the growing rack with whatever you need - I still rely on VCV for the end mixer and a lot of end of chain effects, not to mention modulation CV sources from VCV back into my physical rack. I also use VCV scopes for visualizing modulation - somethimes with a bank of 8 or more on bigger generative patches, endlessly fascinating... I'm not interested in performance so incorporating VCV with my desk-bound system is a no-brainer for me.
Other thing to consider - are you planning on taking your kids on the modular journey? If so maybe some bigger modules is a good idea, for ergonomics and clear workflow etc (I guess I'm referring to the drum modules, the other modules look great for learning)
Finally, consider a Noise Reap for your second VCO. You get two oscillators and normalized freq control between them. It's analog and can get really dirty so could compliment the digital Plaits.
Hadn't looked into slope detectors before, but they seem like really useful utilities. If I understand them correctly, they'll send out gates while they detect a changing cv signal, correct?
-- HGsynth
Btw you actually already have two in the Joranalogue Compare 2 but those can be linked and can do so many things besides slope detection. I have one too but also a Ladik Deriviator that I tend to use for slopes only, sometimes paired with some logic to autmate the record button on my Morphagene.
I'd say this rig goes well beyond the Turing Machine IMO plus the O_c's own quad shift register is far more of a capable Turing just on its own. Between the RND STEP and Source of Uncertaincy for S/H and smooth random, there's plenty of source material for complex generative - especially with that matrix mixer close by.
Seems clear to me that you know what you’re doing and what you want.
Have you considered Clump by NLC for your matrix mixer? I’d be inclined to sacrifice the Mordax to free up the extra space and replace the Quadra with a Quadrax, especially if you’re interested in complex generative patches. I’d also add a slope detector and a probability skipper. Oh and I’d swap Beads for a Microcell - I just think it can do so much more.
Oh and maybe some offset/attenuvert next to the RND STEP
Honestly, I wouldn't go spending until you've learned more. My recommedation would be to dive into VCV. My first module was an Expert Sleepers ES9 because it immediately opened up my physical rack with VCV and allowed to immediately supplement actual modules with absolutely anything I want in modular. It help me learn so much and helped my figure out what I actually need. My first Modulargrid is very very different from the last one I made!
Re: Disting EX. This is by far the best multiple purpose module out there. If you get an Expert Sleepers Mini Midi Breakout (2HP), you can then use something like a WIDI Jack to make it controllable by MIDI - then you can download an OSC Touch template and control the EX from an iPad - it is amazing to use it this way! https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=257083
-- Manbearpignick
My advice for you would be to focus less on the actual modules - what each one can/cannot do and instead, try to hold off on buying things and get on VCV Rack. Since VCV (DAW that follows the rules of modular) is free and many manufacturers offer virtual versions of their real-world modules, it is an excellent way to learn. Or if you already have VCV, spend more time on it.
Based on your posts, I'd recommend you really get to know how voltage works in modular by using attenuators, attenuverters, offsets, and other essential utilities in your explorations on VCV - you simply won't get good results from the various racks you've been posting without them.
Check out Omri Cohen's YouTube and Patreon for an insane amount of content that covers all of this. And for books, try "An Individual Note" by Daphne Oram". "Electronic Music: Systems, Techniques and Controls" is another 'bible' for modular and is finally getting re-printed soon (Nov maybe) thanks to a Kickstarter.
Hope that helps and apologies if this comes of patronizing - everyone goes through the same journey really, myself included!
Yes, and if you get an ES8 or ES9 you'll also be able to use your case with VCVrack which is free and mimics how modular works. It's an awesome way to learn modular and it will inform your choices for your physical rack as you learn more.
Clueless on how electricity works, let alone the cost of it....!
Just curious, below are the specs of my setup. Any idea what it would cost to leave running for 12 hours?
Total module power: 3,873 mA +12v / 1,749 mA -12v / 92 mA +5V
The case I have will take up to 8000/3200 mA
The average electricity rate in my area is 19.74¢ per kWh
Here’s a recording from a big Krell patch – using Audacity to take a section out of it, adding a simple fade in/out at either end and normalizing to make it a bit louder - that’s about all I’m capable of doing on Audacity.
I started off wanting to make a sound that felt like a mid-70s library record (used to collect those, then I had kids) used on an old wildlife documentary. It's supposed to tell a story of how birds migrate: first the gather, stage for the journey, then the long haul, then they're at their new home for the winter. Sound design-wise, the 70s library feel didn't happen!
Patch notes:
Core Krell (cycling A/D) has its EOC driving Pam’s and a 4MS rotating clock divider. Core Krell provides pitch (via quantized S/H) for main background voice, with another Krell (reversed modulation with longer A/D times set) nested within to modulate gain. Same approach for a ‘lead’ voice Krell and another set of Krells for a heavily reverb’d chord that follows the lead for panned background swells. Many of these Krells use their A/D times but take their pitch S/Hs from other Krell EOCs. A lot of the clock divider pulses determine things like a switch to spread mode on the Magneto delay and feedback triggers for its tape heads. Magneto’s own clock modulation drives a Telharmonic and some higher frequency pings and the bird-ish noises which in turn are manipulated by a Morphagene with its record and other settings modulated by clock divisions, S/H etc.
Everything crosses over into VCVRack for Supermassive reverbs, then into a big mixer with many of its channels modulated for fades, panning and gain. Clock divisions from the case also trigger lots of different sequential switches (some in the case, others in VCV) for turning on/off voices. This is also where the patch got recorded to PC.
I was trying to use slew limiters to make a more ‘glided’ switch for the middle section, but it screwed up the patch, so quickly pulled that out!
How do you like working with the Stochastic Inspiration Generator? It looks amazing but it makes me feel nervous that it does too much, if you get what I mean. I do a lot of Krell type patches too and although the idea is to hand over the controls to the patch, for some reason I don't want to let one module figure it all out. I'm sure this makes no sense!
I'm excited to try out the Looking Glass matrix mixer/switch from Frequency Central - especially the simultaneous inverted outputs. I like putting reverbs in the middle of chains and modulating them and with something like this mixer giving you two versions of the same modulation immediately, sounds like they'll be lots of dimension to be had. Not to mention the possibilities with modulating cycling A/Ds... https://www.modulargrid.net/e/frequency-central-looking-glass
Been riding the modular train for about 3 years now and about to upgrade my case to something more vertical from which will de-clutter my desk space whilst giving me a bit more HP.
By complex Krell, I mean nested Krells modulating gain/filters/effects of other Krells, Krells that compliment a ‘master Krell’ for bass type duties, counterpoint, chord Krells – it’s one big Krell party over here…
Looking for any feedback on layout/workflow, other choices of modules, other ideas/opportunities (I’ll list the modules I don’t yet own, but open to selling off things, since it’s so quick/easy to do so).
Few things of note:
- I use an ES-9 & A-119 Ext input in a tiny case to the side, so I can interface with VCVRack – mostly for vc-controlled mixers, end chain filters and the Valhalla Supermassive plugin - which is why there’s not too many filters and not much by way of a mixer in the case.
- The vision is to feed sets of A/D modulation into the matrix mixer/switch and route/mix/invert them to various function generators, as well as experiment with mixing in other sequenced CV via the seq switch, Voltage Block, Marbles, etc
- All the A/Ds usually cycle with various EOCs - even the Zadar, thanks to The Ladik Derivator.
- I love using the Befaco A+B*C to modulate two LFOs for modulating attack/decay on a Krell channel - for some reason I get along best with that module, so I plan to add another.
- The Doepfer trigger modifier in the top row is there to help stimulate the TelHarmonic in shift register mode
- I like to use a main Krell EOC as a clock to run Pam’s and the other time modulators
Modules I don’t own
TipTop/Buchla 281t (quad function generator)
Erogenous Tones Levite (8x Atten/Gain/Offset)
Frequency Control Looking Glass (matrix mixer/switch)
2nd A+B*C (Atten/Gain/Offset/Invert)
2nd DivKid RND STEP (3x S/H)
2nd Veils
Toppobrillo MiniMix (Mixer with headphone out, which could be nice if I want to sometimes use the case, no computer)
Odd how a recent thread by 33PO has the same rack, or is this the same person asking but using a different name? Or is it the forum bugging out, which it seems to do from time to time...
I would consider adding a way to attenuate, offset, invert - for more control over those Ochd LFOs (there was an Ochd in the rack, seems to have disappeared). Sure, you can use the Maths but then they’re all used up.
Acid Rain Junction is pretty compact, or a Doepfer A133-2, or a Befaco A+B*C.
Assuming you’re into ambient/Krell type stuff since there’s no trad sequencer here?
He's using the modular but more as performing overdubs on the tracks he composed on other equipment - it's not just DJ pantomime stuff. You can see some of his modular-only performances on YouTube, like this one:
But to the OP, you'll need a lot more than a Volca Modular :) (the Volca is how I got sucked into the modular wormhole too)
One vote for the Rackbrute from over here! I like the wooden cheeks and I don't like the look of the Mantis. I also have a 3U like the OP and really like how they look together.
Hi Sndbyte, you mentioned being interested in generative sounds but I didn't see much support for that in your rack. If you wanted to go further down that path, maybe sell the Behringers, replace with a mini-Plaits and use the space saved for more generative-friendly modules.
Here's a suggestion rack: You'll need some random for generative. The SSF Ultra Random is discontinued but I got mine off Reverb (with a little patience) or you could get the Wogglebug instead - either gives you lots of options. The Pip Slope EG can be put in cycle mode and is fully CV'able. Missed Opportunities might be random overkill but is there to spice up all the EOCs. The duo Quanitze for making your two voices a little more musical, and a clock/signal modulator so you don't have to over-commit your Maths and use that for other interesting stuff instead.
Personally I’d choose Microcell over Beads. Microcell is the compact version of Supercell, which is a better version of Clouds. Better because it breaks out all the blend controls, has built-in stereo VCAs, and an aux CV, so you could modulate everything from a single source (like smooth random from Marbles or a looping 'shape' from Zadar). Also has a bunch of other modes you can access thanks to the SuperParasites firmware. Very versatile module.
I can rest easy now and think about a more sensible introduction to hardware eurorack
-- static10
To be fair, that rack was never supposed to be an introduction to Eurorack. It was an example of what’s required for a ‘serious’ generative system - I still refer to it today. It’s not really module prescriptive either because in its original thread/context, Lugia explains what each module contributes to a generative workflow: some manipulate clocks, others extract gates from waveforms, others create random CV to manipulate those waveforms, and it goes on in an ever cycling, non-repeating fashion. What I like about the rack is that there are no ‘do it all’ modules (save for maybe the Marbles or Time’s Arrow), so you really have to think through what you’re trying to do - which for me is the fun part.
This is a bit of a fantasy build (let’s face it, aren’t all of the racks here fantasies? Haha)
This rack is based on what is pretty much the coolest thing I’ve ever seen on Reverb: an old Haliburton suitcase adapted for Eurorack. It inspired me to think of what modules I mostly don’t have in my system. I’ve always fancied the idea of a Verbos Harmonic Oscillator, surrounded by modules that would extract the most from its capabilities. I lean toward the ‘herded kittens’ side of things: random-ish, melodic-ish, slowly unfolding type-ish. I’m dreaming of doing stuff like making a copies of the VHO’s tones and smearing the crap out of them, then mix that back in etc etc. Maybe there needs to be less modulation in favor of effects, not sure. Please critique the fantasy or add some ideas! Either way, the constraint is the Haliburton case itself: 96HP x 9U - feast you eyes on this: https://reverb.com/item/52098467-bpnyc-halliburton-eurorack-modular-travel-case-87799
Jdesole, planning racks is fun (I spend so many hours on ModGrid myself) but I suggest you log some hours and build up some experience with Modular on VCVRack2, maybe focus on the ‘real world’ modules available there, like Instruo, Mutable and Befaco. It’ll also solve all your mixing needs.
If you’re still early in your physical rack, get an Expert Sleepers ES9 so you can patch into VCV. It’s the first module I ever bought - invaluable for learning. Even if you want to be fully physical in your modular, unless you’re loaded and have immediate access to any module you want, it’ll be a long time before your rack is fully realized. You could learn with the ES9, help you make the right choices of what to purchase, then sell it later - they’re in constant demand.
I'd go with a full size Supercell, which has built-in VCAs, CV ins for every parameter, ability to send one source of CV to all parameters and attenuate each one. If you have the HP, it's a great option.
I used to have a long narrow wooden planter box - that you’d find in a garden store, so you can lay out the longer cables nicely. But now that I’ve moved house and have a tighter space, I use a metal square plate thing with loads of grooves on each side, from the Ctrl-mod.com - it fits on top of a mic stand.
For cables I do very bright colors by length. Love the tiptop stacksbles but also dig the really short ones too (so satisfying when your module layout plan comes together, but only sometimes).
Would a Voltage Block be good for this, Nick? The range of each slider/step is 0-5v and you can set it to jump or glide between them. With attenuverters & offsets between the Block and your complex oscillator I’d imagine you’d have tight control - not to mention putting it through the SISM. You’ll be in the lab for weeks!
For function generators like Stages, my personal favorite is the Intellijel Quadrax + its expander. 4 envelopes with end of rise and fall triggers plus a CV matrix behind the scenes. IMO this packs more functionality that any of the others, including the mighty Maths. I also use a Befaco Rampage, which is also great and so easy to use but Quadrax is the workhorse. Only problem is there are zero around for sale though I read on one of the German retail sites that new ones are expected in July... I want two!
Everything I do in the rack is pretty much generative, so my feedback comes from that side of things...
Firstly, if you're open to integrating this with a computer, get an ES9 and connect your physical modules with VCVRack. It will open up soooo many ways to learn. I do all my mixing and end of chain effects in VCV, including the amazing and free Supermassive reverb plugin from Vahalla. If you're dead set on a physical only rack, you could even sell on the ES9 when your case is near-full. You'll find a buyer in about 60 seconds after listing it on Reverb.com
Secondly, in your case, you need to increase the randomness (actually the Buchla random you had before would be ideal). I would definitely add dedicated Sample & Holds and put them next to your noise module. Would also add some free running chaotic random CV like a Sloths. Also consider at least one buffered mult.
The other thing I think you need are more ways to attenuate, invert, offset. One key thing about generative is being able to 'tune' your CV in order to precisely tweak that generative randomness into something listenable. One thing you could do is swap some your VCA choices with ones that can VCA but also do inversion and offset. You have a bit of that, but IMHO you need more.
Finally I would sprinkle those utilities all around your case.
In different browsers, on different machines, I'm constantly unable to type or use the delete button when trying to reply to posts. Sometimes refreshing helps but it's frustrating.
No space for that, I'm afraid. I already have two 6Us attached together. I literally have about 10 inches of desk between the Brutes and the PC monitor!
Just for reference, this is the Rack. The two Fansynths don't exist but I'm holding space for them (or something like them, Mutant Modular told me something better is on the way) because this thing gets hot and I'd like my modules to last well into retirement...! I use the rack for generative stuff.
