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I had kind of given up on the complex control scheme / complex routings in Live and Bitwig; when I tried that seriously ~2 years ago, it was so klunky, I couldn't get it to work smoothly in a way that wasn't a nightmare for me.
-- nickgreenberg

Yeah, Live is a bit of a resource hog. I never have significant issues running it, though...but the machine it resides on is a bit "non-standard". It's an H-P Z620 with dual 8-core Xeons @ 2.6 GHz, 32 GB RAM.

The rationale behind using this sort of platform revolves SOLELY around thruput. Having seen how other platforms with less cores (but more speed) deal with Live 10 and upwards, I opted to get a machine that had as many cores as I could get within a certain budgetary constraint...and I found these refurbed on Newegg and knew that if the parallel processing didn't bog the machine down (which I didn't expect to happen), this would BLOW SMOKE. And sure enough, it does. I can still crash it, but it takes a project with LOADS of tracks, well over 50-60 active plugins, and a ton of automation lanes to get it to choke. VSTs that are extremely processor-intensive can be a problem as well...such as with Arturia's Sound Easel emulation, but these sorts of VSTs will bottom-out pretty much ANY machine unless it's a real screamer.

Upshot is that if you can get buttloads of processor cores, Live purrs like a kitten. And that Z620 is what was referred to as a "virtualization workstation", which is not quite like a regular PC, but is a machine that was optimized for VR emulation...which ALSO requires tons of thruput. The choice was kinda obvious.

It problem have.

Go back to your build page, reload it a few times, then go into "view" and select "Screenshot". If the screenshot looks right, then edit the post by removing the page's URL, reposting, then re-editing it with the current page's URL (yes, even if it's the same). Otherwise, the Forum keeps the old screenshot version in place.

Live works admirably here, as long as it's the FULL version with Max for Live. That one addition unlocks a lot of the hidden power under Ableton's hood, and since you can define LOTS of possible operations/routings/etc via Max, it's sort of a unique situation. But it's VERY easy to set up all sorts of "sneaky" send/return signal paths with M4L objects. With that, I can set up lots of actions that are basically nonrepeating, yet which follow clear musical patterns as a work plays.

Which brings up a point: now that there's a huge installed base of Eurorack out there, you WILL see bargain prices on used gear...finally! It's not so esoteric anymore, which is a boon if you're trying to build a new system on the cheap or if you're trying to find something discontinued.

Yep, the C-L stuff is pretty unique, mainly due to the different ideas lurking inside them. The best description I can think of would be that what you get from them is sortakinda like they were created by someone using Don Buchla's design sensibilities, but the sound production hardware has more in common with Stanley Lunetta's uniquely raucous circuitry. As such, Peter B.'s (and the Lorre-Mill stuff, which is a continuation of that) instruments are very unique in how they splice those very different sonic paradigms together.

Actually rather common in test gear. I know that Tektronix made TM500-series modules that were little onboard "cases" in which you could shove all of the test leads, probes, etc...then snap on the TM500 rack's cover, and you were ready to go. Hewlett-Packard, also, had some similar "compartment modules" for various modular systems of their design.

Yeah, it's VERY Schillinger! And yes, that gets further into the "complex control orders" methods, where you've got a module that outputs something, but that module is controlled by a couple of others, which in turn are governed by something else, etc.

For a good example of the sort of thing that this can do in analog, I'd suggest a listen to Four Tet's "New Energy". While the melodic parts there are definitely done with MIDI sequencing, by using complex timing alterations and "deep order" control, you can arrive at similar structures in the analog domain. And yeah, it takes some time and exploration to sort out, but the reward far outweighs the effort needed.

OK, that clarified a lot...so, I banged around with this a bit, added some mojo, dropped the older-style Doepfer modules (definite depth issue with one of them, and the single EG was replaced with the dual ADSR because...well, more ADSR) and the mult (use some stackcables or inline mults instead...saves the cab space for function). I also kicked the Contour for some space to drop in a Quadrax/Qx, which ups THAT game x4.

OK...I presumed this was an Intellijel case from your description, so I went with Intellijel tiles. Your MIDI interface is now up there, then a Noise Tools which gives you clocking, S&H, noise, and a slew limiter. The QuadrATT gives you a utility mixer and/or attenuverters. FOUR more VCAs come next for anything you might need some extra VCAs for (like stereo output level control, level control for your FX, etc). After those, you've got a 2-in stereo summing mixer which allows you to parallel the FX Aid below it instead of having to feed through it and using the wet/dry control. After that, your cab's stereo out.

Middle row: STO, Dixie II+...then the REAL missing complex VCO part thanks to Happy Nerding: their FM Aid, which allows thru-zero FM between the two VCOs. Crossfader's after that, then your Bifold. But, continuing with the TZFM thing, I put in Intellijel's take on a complex analog VCO, the Rubicon2. You now have MAD west-coast-style generation going on! Then the Quad VCA lets you impose modulation on four different sources before feeding the Dual Borg. Then, for some fun, I paired the Optomix with an SSF Noise Rainbow 2 so that you now ALSO have a little extra electronic percussion...rather Krautrock-ish style. After this, an Alyseum QMix gives you four channels of level/panning into a stereo sum. But then the OUTPUT fun starts, as you'd use a pair of stackcables to split out your stereo. One pair goes to the Stereo Mixer directly, and the other to the FX Aid XL, then you feed the fully-wet FX Aid's output to the other Stereo Mixer tile's input, and you've got a proper parallel stereo FX return.

Bottom row: Pam's, then a Ladik dual pulse delay allows you to "slip" a couple of clock outputs' timing against a couple of others, letting some neat flam, syncopation, etc activity happen easily. And to make that work in that way (and a few others), I put in a pair of Erica Pico logic gates. Wogglebug, Batumi, then a Frap 321, which is a neat little utility mixer/attenuverter/offset gen-type device that lets you throw different modulation signals at each other to get even more complex modulation signals. A Veils clone is next to give you some modulation-specific VCAs. After that, Maths, then the Qx and Quadrax gives you what the Contour was up to...times four, and then some. And the single ADSR got tossed in favor of the dual ADSR. The O&c follows, then the little sliver on the end is a Konstant Labs PWRcheckr, because it's a good idea to have SOME way to monitor your DC rails' behavior inside the cab.

Result: Majorly beefed-up sound generation, for starters. Having the extra FM capabilities for the two single VCOs will majorly kick them into west-coast turf. And the Rubicon2 complements this arrangement really nicely. And, two voices of noise + LPG percussives, too! Plus, stereo mixing, stereo FX, and parallel FX return ability. Now THAT'S a serious voice row! And the modulation and control...also, massive beef-up. You went from one two-stage to four, then one ADSR to two. Add to that the 321's ability to flip/mangle/alter your modulation, plus the quad VCA...that's ready, too. You could even do basic generative with this, although it's lacking some of the gate pick-offs like comparators, etc. But the Pico Logic actually gives you some very different timing options than just the Pam's alone can. Definitely worth rocking out on now...and complex enough that there's loads of patching options, but not to the point that it's impossible to sort out what's going on. As for the few modules I pulled...well, hey, there's always the next rack, right?

EDITED Mar 28th 2021, 22:28

You're going to have problems. The idea that anyone can just step up and create a build that can work on styles from one end of the spectrum to the other is pretty much a fallacy, unless you're up for something in the 4 x 168 zone. This is because the modules that work well for, say generative music really aren't likely to be the ones that'll do the same for synthpop. Mind you, there ARE exceptions...but as I noted, this isn't something that can easily be done even WITH extensive experience. Anyway, the result is that you'd need a BIG system in order to house and power all of the modules that you WON'T be using on one project or another. So unless you've got piles of ca$h, I'd suggest you either try and find a "lane" for this build to drive in, or try and put together something rather basic that you can use with external processing. Except for generative...it's very much a "special case", and requires more than usual in terms of modulation and modulation pick-off modules to create the complex-order control needed for that.

Secondly, you mention that this should be in a 7u cab. I don't see that here. What I DO see, however, is a huge no-no on that bottom row. If you have something that's in a case, and that gets powered by that case, LEAVE IT IN THAT CASE unless you have some urgent, must-do rationale for putting it in the Eurorack cab. For one thing, it kills space that needs to be there for modules that have NO power and NO case. Secondly, once you factor in the cost of housing and powering those devices TWICE, you'll find that you're paying considerably more for the 0-Ctrl and DFAM than you paid when you bought 'em. Anyway, without a tile row in the layout, you're going to have some problems working out the configuration for it.

Now, as for that "complex oscillator" idea...it's not bad. My AE system has six of these sorts of assemblages, consisting of two basic digital oscillators, two VCAs, two full VCOs, a 4-in mixer, and a wavefolder. They work. But with AE's prices, they're very doable. Now, the price for your configuration comes out to $767 and it takes up 28 hp. However, this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/make-noise-dpo-white-knobs ...is a Make Noise DPO, which is a fo-realz, no-foolin' complex oscillator based on typical Buchla signal flow concepts. And it costs $599, which comes out to $168 LESS. Clearly, the way you've implemented this isn't the right way to proceed unless, like I said before, piles of ca$h, etc.

Stop. Stop right now. You need to take some deep, cleansing breaths and have a seat.

For one thing, NO ONE AT ALL, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER comes onto Modulargrid and whips out a perfect first build. It doesn't happen. Period. Even if you've got extensive experience in synthesis, there is simply too much here to process rapidly, especially in Eurorack. Secondly, there's some major differences between prebuilt (even patchable) synths and true modular architecture, most notably in that you can totally define your instrument and tailor it for your music's needs. But that's a double-edged sword, tbh...mainly because, if you don't know that your music has a "deficiency" that modular SPECIFICALLY can correct, you're more apt to build a hella expensive closet-warmer.

Instead of continuing down a path that WILL result in the horrific detonation of your Magic Plastic, I suggest...

1) Spend time on here studying other, more experienced users' builds. Just go through there, and when you see a name you recognize from their work (and you will!), see how and why they do what they're doing. Gradually, you'll start to notice certain patterns in module complements, signal flow, ergonomics, etc.

2) Get a copy of VCV Rack. VCV is a software emulator for Eurorack (more or less) and contains a huge range of module emulations, some of which are 1:1 software takes on existing Eurorack hardware (Mutable, Instruo, et al). Mind you, it doesn't like to run on underpowered systems, so keep that in mind (and change your computer's power profile to "maximum performance", however you do that on the OS you use)...but that's more or less the sole drawback. You'll find everything at https://vcvrack.com/

3) After that, proceed SLOWLY. Make a build. Remake it. Then remake the remake, and so on. Work toward a refined end-result, not a fast slap-together; Modulargrid ain't a video game, and trying to "speed-run" it will invariably end in disaster, especially when first starting in modular system design. There are simply far more potential "errors" than proper solutions on MG, depending on what you're trying to do. And...

4) Avoid "sexy module syndrome". Yeah, I know...lots of blinkenlichts und tvistenknobs LOOKS cool AF, but unless you make sure to put the right "boring stuff" (VCAs, attenuverters, timing modifiers, etc etc etc) into the build in the right proportions and of the right types, you're guaranteed to wind up with a very expensive albeit pretty to look at noisemaker. The build above is already well on its way to that disastrous end-result, so...yeah, stop. Get to know the right "whats" and "whys" FIRST, and THEN go back to setting up a build that you can whittle into a fine final result. It's very doable, but it doesn't involve instant gratification...and if you've worked with music for any length of time, you should know better than to try and look for that illusion, as it simply doesn't exist. Or rather, it DOES...but the "gratification" only lasts for as long as you're unaware of the mistakes.

Hmmm...that's a shame, as it was sort of unique in that you had four independent LFOs, each under their own "tap tempo" via the "ping". However, the Mutable Tides shares some of this, and Ginko has their TTLFO which pretty much replicates a single section of the QPLFO. But losing a four-in-one like that...not good.

It might seem finished, but remember: the minute a modular synth user actually DOES complete a system is the minute that the Earth falls into the Sun. This stuff is NEVER finished...

also thought about looking into modules for adding "randomness"again preferrable smaller modules,without getting to cluttered,but in this regard im abit in the dark
-- Broken-Form

Look into random signal modules that offer multiple functions. For example, Verbos's Random Sampling module. Sure, it's $500...but in its 18 hp, you get a multicolor noise gen, the essentials of the Buchla "Source of Uncertainty", a four-stage analog shift register that can also function as a quad sample and hold, and probably one or two other things that surface once you start screwing around with it. So, it SEEMS expensive, but you'd pay about the same amount (or more) for these devices separately, and they'd take up way more space.

Also, keep an eye out for "abuse potential". Example: modules such as Euclidean sequencers don't have to be sequencers; using them as quasi-random clock modulators is equally valid, and they can be VERY worthwhile for jazzing up your timing signals.

Have to agree with Jim here...there's a lot of audio modules present, but your modulation sources and modules to manipulate them with are pretty lacking here. F'rinstance, the DUSG is quite cool and all...but let's say you need to send an inverted output AND a normal one to two different destinations. Can't do that without attenuverters or polarizers, and I don't see any here. That's just one example; there's plenty of others.

Einstuggy makes anything sound terrifying and awesome!

Oh mighty Modular-cat
Keeper of stereophonic balance

Bless the Kitty and His annoyance
Bless the coming and going (and coming and going and coming and going and coming and going and...)
May His warnings cleanse your rack build...

(with absolutely no apologies to the late Frank Herbert)

EDITED Mar 24th 2021, 18:36

I am kind of interested in that 4ms - QPLFO but I think I am missing a function but perhaps you can help me out? I am looking for an LFO that has a clock input but where the speed can still be regulated in somehow a synced way in correlation with the clock input. Any idea if this exists and if yes, could you please name a few modules that can do that?

Actually, the QPLFO can do that. Since it can either be set "normally" or it can respond to "pings" (triggers, basically), you could mult up a clock output then send that to the QPLFO to "ping" the LFOs in sync. This gets even better if you've got a Pam's or Temps Utile, where you can have several synced clock outputs.

Stop, stop, stop! ;-) Did you mention there B.2600 as in Behringer - 2600 (that 'Arpy' thing)? Do you have that one already? How is it? Is it as good as most of us were hoping for, or at least not disappointing? I was thinking of waiting for the Blue Marvin version.

I'm following the lead of a number of people with experience on the originals, who've examined the B.2600 and have said that, yes, it DOES do what it should. That being said, there's apparently some incremental differences between the "orange" one and the Meanies. I'm waiting for a grey, myself...already got that prepaid over at Sweetwater, just waiting for Uli to get off his sorry ass and send some to the USA (Thomann apparently has them already). He's probably busy harassing people on some synth forum, though...damn shame about those narcissistic priorities of his...

But if there's something amiss with the B.2600s, I'll know it PDQ. After all, I've been poking at the ARP 2600 since I started learning synthesis back around 1980, and that includes revs 2, 3, and 4. No Blue Meanies, although I'm still a little surprised I never ran across one in Nashville years ago. After all, my old hometown had me encountering things like ARP Chromas (yeah...I got to play with a pre-CBS one back c. 1980!) and other near-prototypes of all sorts.

That Strymon is OK as a basic pedal interface, but it has limitations, such as no way to properly control I/O levels in the event of a stompbox getting overloaded, or one that outputs too hot of a signal. I'd suggest the Bastl Hendrikson instead...you'd then get some CV control over your wet/dry balance, plus LED indications for overloads. Little more spendy...but you DO get more.

Secondly, you need to downsize some of these modules. Even though this is a proper 6U cab, you still need to be careful about space economy while avoiding ergonomics issues. But if done right...well...

You'll notice that I went with Mutable clones here in all cases except the Beads (which isn't out in clone versions yet), and all of these allowed a great deal of extra space to come into play.

For starters, your Rample now has a dedicated stereo mixer, allowing you to pan and mix your four channels of sampler properly. More mashing allowed a PAIR of Plaits clones, not merely one, and these now get their own summing mixer. The uRinks is your Rings, the u4xVCA is a Veils clone, and between them I put in a single multimode VCF, Bastl's nifty Cinnamon...about the same idea as the Ripples, but with a bit more character. Then the Takaab dual LPG (this is the present version...they downsized it to 2 hp), Beads, and the aforementioned Hendrikson pedal I/O.

Bottom row starts with the Pam's, but then the Nonlinearcircuits chaotic modulator got mashed WAY down into a Zlob Diode Chaos...same sort of idea, much smaller. Marbles became a Pachinko, saving more hp. And by mashing, I was able to add not only a Batumi quad LFO, but its Poti expander as well. There's a Frap 321 after that, which lets you crossmix/mangle/tamper with modulation signals, then an After Later dVCA, which is half of a Veils. Quadrax/Qx, followed by the Ears...then a REAL stereo mixer from Happy Nerding, which allows CV over either level or panning per channel, has your headphone preamp, and also some stereo metering...then this feeds to Happy Nerding's Isolator for your stereo ganged level and transformer isolation on the output.

First off, it's probably a good thing that I looked at this, as you had the size of the Rackbrute wrong. According to Arturia's own docs, it's not 89 hp per row...but 88. Big difference, even though we're only talking 1 hp here. The double VCO setup now lets you set up detuning, resulting in a much fatter sound, or you can use the second Plaits clone as another separate VCO for a different "voice" line. Modulation is HUGELY improved here with the addition of the quad LFO + 321 + VCAs. Also, the Ears is now by the mixer, which should work much better than having it anywhere near the power supply. You can probably get away with a digital module like the Rample, but an input preamp like that next to a power supply opens you up to noise and crud every time you opted to use the Ears where it was. Lastly, REAL mixing, with VCA control and stereo panning...big improvement there.

Even though you've got a few modules already, this should hopefully give you some reasons to rethink how this was going. Cramming a full-on build into even a 6U Rackbrute is a tad difficult unless you shrink modules whenever possible. This should be a much more capable result, even if you only adopt some of the suggestions here.

why would you not want maths? - a wonderful modulation source, in a rack of mainly granular and effects - I'd still want modulation sources and utilities no matter what I was doing with my rack
-- JimHowell1970

Agreed. There seems to be little point in tossing out one of the most versatile modulation sources ever made. It's sort of like saying you want a Moog Model 15...but NOT that Moog LPF (despite it being one of the main points of ANY Moog modular). I also don't see the point of the hate-on toward DAWs here. Yes, yes, I KNOW there's been a bunch of "the usual suspects" on YouTube yowling about "DAWless rigs" as of late, but as someone who started in this before anything vaguely resembling a DAW ever existed and who has gone through DAWless use both in the studio AND live and who went through several DAWs over a couple of decades-ish, lemme tell you...this trend is a load of #2s. Comparing my output done WITH Ableton against the work from before I settled on that...well, Ableton lets me work FAST, work EASILY, do things that a DAWless rig would find IMPOSSIBLE, and so on.

It's not the gear. Those who pin their musical failings on their gear are lying to themselves, as are those who think that having some "magic device" will be the express lane to SYNTHGODHOOD. All of that is 100% utter bunk. The fact is, if you're blaming some hardware issue for holding your work back, you only need to go and look in the mirror to see the REAL source of the problem!

One other point, also...people who try and sell you a concept like DAWless on YouTube are...well, the word "sell" is a key. YT is about clicks, about hardscrabble survival, and about self-marketing. I see nothing in that list there about concepts such as "art" or "self-expression". They'll toss out the latest trendy whateverthehell, then a few months later they'll shift their entire working paradigm in order to sell the latest concept that all of their competition is jumping on, because that's how you survive YouTube. But it's not how you do art. Just ask Chris Gaines...or rather, Garth Brooks, when he tried to pull something similar at the end of the 1990s by altering his modus operandi, believing that being "edgy" like Trent Reznor would rake in even MORE lovely ca$h. The result, however, was a CATASTROPHIC miscue that imploded and almost took his "regular" career down with it! DAWless is only the current "flavor of the month" on YT right now, and by summer, it'll be something else, with little to no consequences to the YouTubers pushing it (although there should be, just like Garth). Don't be fooled.

Problem is, 62 hp isn't very much space at all...and you're wanting to do some texturally-complex music. You've got two options that I can see here...

1) Jam it full of the right modules in under 4 hp sizes. This will make what you want fit...but the control ergonomics will be hellish.

or...

2) Follow your friend's lead and get rid of that tiny cab, then do a proper build.

One thing that you see all the time are new modular users who think that you can build the equivalent of Hans Zimmer's "Moog wall" in a 1-row cab. Aaaaaaaand...you can't, not to anyone's surprise. I mean...look at the screenshot above. Three often-used modules in place, and the 3U row is already more than half-filled, and the remaining space is where you need to put your entire audio generation and filtering chain, plus one or two more modulation sources. Doesn't look promising...

If you're going to try and build this into a proper modular build (which I do NOT recommend), you've already made a cardinal (and expensive) mistake in ordering these huge modules. As I've noted, you'll need to keep all of the module sizes at 4 hp or less in order to do a properly-implemented modular setup in this thing. As things stand right now, you won't get there.

What these small cabs are REALLY for are specialized builds, things I and others call "mission-specific" builds. For example, if you wanted to add a Maths to an ARP 2600, these little skiffs are ideal, as you can easily jam that plus several supporting modules into the restrictive space they provide. But an entire rig...while you DO see people (mostly on YouTube) doing this sort of thing, you have to keep in mind that they're there for the CLICKS...and not necessarily to be helpful. Especially not in these cases.

Your best bet here is to stick the Palette on eBay or Reverb, then add a bit of extra $$$ to what you get there and buy something like a Mantis. THAT will hold a proper module complement.

Try Analogue Haven, troux...they appear to have been dealing in Moffenzeef since they started putting modules out.

is there a decent joystick that dont cost like 2-300 euro?
-- Broken-Form

Yep: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/befaco-joystick 35mm depth, too, so it'll fit nicely in a shallow rack.

Another controller I'd suggest, but which isn't cheap, would be the Verbos MiniHorse. Basically, it's a massive update of the original Buchla 100 touchplates, but with way more functionality already set up in the module. You get 12 plates, on which you have pressure, position on plate, gate, an assignable variable CV as well as fixed CV values. The ability to make full use of the pressure and position are super-useful...just use the fixed CV for your pitch, then assign the pressure to VCA level and position to VCF cutoff, and you can play pitch, dynamic, AND timbral parameters with each touch.

Been tinkering with this for a little bit. No, it's not a full synth; this is intended as an "expander" for my Digisound/B.2600/AE setup (with the AE being accessed by this via a Soundmachines Nanobridge) plus an interface for pedals and a translator for the MS-20 minis.

I opted for a Palette 104 here, as this allows for the utility row and tile row, which makes this work much better than if I'd done it as a tile-less cab build. The tile row offers two pairs of attenuverters which also function as utility mixers, four extra VCAs, Intellijel's MultiFX, and two of their Pedal I/Os which connect to pedals via the 1/4" jacks on the Palette's utility strip.

The module row has a KonstantLabs PWRchekr, 4ms QPLFO, Maths, and a Quadrax/Qx for modulation sources, with the MISO added for modulation transforms. Then the logic section has a Dovemans dual window comparator to pick gates off of modulation signals, an EMW Logic/Divider, a Bastl Kompas for probabilistic gate generation, a Ladik Derivator to pick gates off of CV direction changes, and a Mystic ANA for CV arithmetics. Last module is a G-Storm KVP for translating normal CVs and gates to the Korg MS-20 format (Hz/V CVs and inverse trigger/gates).

Not bad, I think...this hits all of the necessary bases to be a proper modulation expander, plus it offers logic and some stochastic functions for "complicating up" clock and/or gate/trigger behavior, and the FX interfacing. Should be a great fit...

The M32 doesn't belong in there, either. Consider how much space it takes up in the rack, and how much that space actually costs...then add it to what you paid for it. Put it back in its case as well and get a multi-tier bracket for the Moog stuff...that looks cooler, anyway.

As for the rest of the build...uhhh...OK, it's a bit apparent that you're OVERreliant on the Moogs for things such as VCAs, attenuverters/mixers, and so on. Plus, there's a lot of little 2 and 3 hp modules all over the place in between the "sexy" modules (and we'll get at that in a bit), sort of like shower-grout mold. Or something about as useful as that, because if you'd just return the 120 hp that the Moogs are stealing, you'd have room for PROPER versions of those modules, such as mixers where you can actually control your source levels (kindasorta important). And the layout is just...well, it's haphazard, very random, with no discernable order to the modules with respect to signal flow, function grouping, etc.

There's some decent modules in here...but it doesn't seem like there's any overall plan for this. Even with the Moogs in place, the remainder of the modules just don't seem to make a lot of sense. Then there's the plan to toss the Audio Damage delay...which I think is just plain nuts. For one thing, it's a pretty good dub-style delay...and if you're doing repetitive ambient work (ie: Berlin school type stuff), you NEED delays such as that to increase your sequencing density and to "canonically" shift parts of one line against each other...delay-line hocketing, basically. Plus, it has an INSERT in its feedback loop...which has massive abuse potential! Yes, I see the Chronoblob up above, and yes, it's a delay with that same sort of insert...and actually, it and the DubJr are some of the very few affordable and decently-sized delays that offer this. It's also discontinued...so if you toss it and then realize that that WAS a mistake, good luck finding another one!

"Additions" aren't the problem here. This is a build that's got some real systemic problems, in my opinion. You've got a cab here that's got the size necessary to house a KILLER module complement, but the whole thing's hamstrung by the Moogs. They're robbing over a third of your cab space which you clearly need for actual modules...as you're discovering. This would be MUCH better off if you pulled those and then worked at making a cohesive modular synthesizer build out of the odds and ends that currently occupy the rack. You can even keep some space open (which I'd suggest...3 x 104 SHOULD offer plenty of expansion room) to build beyond that. Then start regrouping modules, aiming for a layout that's way more cohesive that way. Once you do that, it should be considerably more apparent where the shortcomings are.

Right now, the go-to mixer I'm pointing people at when they need as much CV control as possible in the most convenient space would be Toppobrillo's Stereomix2. Not only does this give you CV over level, pan and AUX sends, you also have mutes on your inputs and you get a "strip to cue" function that sends your audio to the headphone jack from a selected input strip...which is INVALUABLE for live work, tuning purposes, and a bunch of other things. You could even use it as a second (manual) AUX. Plus, this is their rev.2 version, which means it's already debugged and tweaked for optimal performance. It's sort of like the Mixology...on 'roids!

Hmmmm...well, echoing Jim here, take the Neutron OUT of the cab. It already has its own cab and power, so when you take something that has those and put it into another case with power, you'll need to factor in the price of the space/power you're now taking up in your main cab. Seems convenient to do, but in the end it's majorly wasteful of your Eurorack case space and power...especially at 80 hp. Remember: treat your more expensive Eurorack case space as a commodity...because, at the cost of Eurorack cabs AND the necessity for that space for UNhoused modules, that space should ONLY be for devices that require it. The Neutron doesn't.

There's some other things I could suggest, but with that one synth taking up 80 hp that it shouldn't, it's hard to determine what the ACTUAL layout of this (and additional modules) should be.

Yep...if you've got tools that work, then work with 'em! The other point to going with outboard effects is that you save hp in your build...and that means more potential sound generation capabilities. Grab a small portable rack case, jam the outboard gear and patchbay in there, and there you go...AND it's still relatively portable, so if you wanted to gig with the setup, that wouldn't be much of a hassle.

my 2 ordered LPGs ver 2 have now been underways 10 days
-- Broken-Form

They ship from Bangkok, if I remember correctly. Given the Covid situation, I'd suggest patience; while I've had a couple of things from that side of the globe get here pretty quickly, much of the things I've ordered out of China (same general shipping situation) seem to take 2-4 weeks-ish via surface shipping.

Yeah, that would work well...fact is, the Ranes I use here are sort of matrix-ish, as they can simultaneously split a stereo signal to several outs AND offer return channels that sum down to a stereo out. If you added a distro amp, then you could derive multiple buffered sends and fire them off to a bunch of rack devices, then sum all that back down with a Rane SM 26B, with all of that only using a stereo pair on your converter for send and another for return. The only caveat I'd make here would be to get a distro that's ONLY for stereo audio...there's quite a few on the usual used gear sites that also have video in various formats, but those aren't what you'd be looking for.

Case in point: https://reverb.com/item/15148196-kramer-105a-distribution-amp-new-in-box-2018-grey This gives you five buffered stereo outs (on 3.5mm TRS jacks) from one stereo input. Then fan those out to some inexpensive rack processors, and return sum them through this: ~McAAOSwotVfjl4z" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rane-SM26/324341290702?hash=item4b843f56ce~McAAOSwotVfjl4z via a couple of patchbays to allow some more flexibility in effects routing. With devices like the older Yamaha SPX line, earlier Lexicons from the MPX line, etc coming in at the $150-ish range, this would be a good time to look at a setup of this sort.

EDITED Mar 20th 2021, 01:44

Cool...in fact, have a look here: https://www.facebook.com/casefromlake This maker turned up on here a month-ish ago, and what I see from them is impressive: built-in IEC AC outlets, great and PORTABLE designs, solid builds. That 3 x 104 case for EUR 455 (with power, busboards, all that fun stuff) is a KILLER deal, and offers tons of room for future expansion at a price that kicks the crap out of most other case makers. Check 'em out!

Looks solid to me...about the only changes I'd make at this point would be to suggest using something a tad more complex than the Erica CV processor. Frap's 321 fits the space, and offers CV/mod scrambling that's on par with the Tiptop MISO along with the functions that the Erica module has. And also, going with a Happy Nerding OUT instead of the 4ms Listen I/O would allow you to fly in another stereo pair over the top of the rest of the mix...very useful for an extra FX return for something global, like reverb.

Other than that, though...yeah, build it. It's ready.

There's goes my stimmy check! lol
-- isolatediguana

Money is transitory, but good musical instruments are forever. Even if they croak, you'll still have the work you created with 'em.

Second cab makes perfect sense, btw...you were gonna get one anyway (just like EVERYONE eventually does...there ARE reasons we call this "Eurocrack", after all), so go ahead and take the plunge. Just make sure this time out to put plenty of the "boring" stuff in there to make the "sexy" modules do everything they're capable of.

Oh, no doubt...but the key is to get a sequencer that properly emulates the TB-303's behavior, something like a Stepper Acid or similar. Beyond that, the sky's the limit as far as sound generation...and that factor is the big thing here. You can still have 303 patterns, but that 303 sequencer getting harnessed to some raw sonic power...THAT'S the point. Even if you do this in a DAW, it's still the "right thing to do" to use a 303-style sequencer to drive a very complex VSTi synth these days.

Ahhh, if only Aphex hadn't released the Most Expensive Acid Track Ever ("180db" on "Syro", which uses not one, not TWO, but THREE Korg PS3300s controlled by a 303), this would be SO much simpler...

It's not just you...you're missing some utilities.

I had a go at the build, eliminating some modules in the process. I didn't see the point of having huge distortion and stereo delay modules taking up space, so I chucked those and went with a different FX setup. I also got rid of the sequential switch (no sequencer, so...) and modified a few things, and this is what resulted:

I took a BIG cue from your frustration with the current state of capability, and tinkered with this so that it's capable of more elaborate modulation, plus I added a beefier (Pachinko...Marbles clone) random signal module to kick that up considerably.

Top row: This is ALL audio now. "Voice 1" is the Dixie2+/Red Dragon/Javelin set. Then "voice 2" has the stereo oscillators feeding the Squawk Dirty via a Happy Nerding 2x SAM, which provides two stereo inputs to one stereo out, letting you submix the stereo oscillators. Morphagene follows, then I changed the VCAs to a Veils clone (getting back 2 hp for the 2x SAM) and placed that so the VCAs can function as level controls for your mixer strips.

Bottom row: PWRchekr, then a Yarns clone (much more capable than the previous MIDI interface). Pam's is after this, then the Kinks, but after that I added a CVable Logic module, which will allow you to play a couple of timing channels from the Pam's off of each other to create some more complex clocking behavior. Marbles clone is after this, then the Batumi with the Poti expander. And keeping with that, I added a Zadar and its expander; the build now has five EGs, including the one in the Javelin. A Frap 321 provides various CV/mod alteration functions, and I added three more VCAs after that...which will allow your modulation signals some improved capability by adding CV control over modulation amplitudes. Then Maths...and the FX section is now a Happy Nerding FX Aid and a knob.farm Ferry allows two channels of FX send/return for an external FX processor (or two) which can be a much more complex rack device (and those are pretty cheap right now, thanks to VSTs). Lastly, the Befaco output module.

Again, this was done with the "self-modulation" shortcomings in mind; this build now has that dealt with, and the modulation palette is MUCH more complex with the addition of the various bottom row modules and the deletion of the 32 hp's worth of FX modules. That part was a great example of "sexy modules" gone bad, as those took up the space you really needed as modulation modules. Your voices are also now laid out more sensibly, with all audio modules except the FX and output on the top. And yes, there were deletions as I've noted...but this is definitely much more focused on creating complex sounds with considerable internal change, as you'd wanted.

I'm interested in this thread as I'm also thinking of slowly relieving Ableton Live from its FX duties.
-- Mazz

Well, maybe the simpler ones...there's still plenty of things that software can do that hardware can't.

As for what's needed to really integrate hardware with a software "engine," that would be a mixer that has ample sends and returns. Or you can use some spare I/O channels to establish send/returns from inside Ableton to outboard devices. I don't think it's a very good idea to try and get audio out of and then back into the modular just by adding a matrix mixer and plugging effects processors into that. For one thing, there's a big level mismatch, so you'd need extra modules to drop/raise the levels so that you weren't prone to overloading the effects or not having enough level on the return to work within the synth. That's going to cost, both in terms of $$$ and hp.

But there IS a way to make this work with a minimum of additional I/O modules, and that's by putting together a parallel mixing setup for your effects processors.

Let's say for a minute that you could do this exact thing by adding only TWO channels of I/O level shifting, but you've got a PILE of processors. So, drop in a stereo I/O...something like a Ladik A-595, for example. Now you've got what's needed to move a stereo signal out and back. Then, add a distribution amp...it's sort of the rack gear equivalent to a buffered multiple...and route your effects outputs from this as it splits your stereo Eurorack send. Then on the other side, use a small rack mixer (I prefer Rane's SM 26B for this, as it works as either a signal splitter OR a 6-input stereo submixer) to submix your processing back to the stereo Eurorack return. The fact that the Ladik module is both cheap AND small can make this work, and all you'll need "outside" would be those two devices, and maybe a 1/4" patchbay if you want to make changes to your routings easily. Alternately, you could use Ladik's P-520 to have four channels of output, and still use a stereo line return while using just the outboard submixer for FX summing; if you had four mono-in/stereo-out processors (something like certain stompboxes, or classic rack processors such as Yamaha's SPX90), one P-520 would handle that and, by using the outboard submixer, you can create a fairly elaborate AUX setup for submixing different voices. And so on...it's the sort of setup that's really only limited by imagination and $$$.

The thing about the TB-303 is that the key to its sound isn't necessarily found in the synth part of the device. The SEQUENCER is the important part; the way it handles legato, the way the "glide" function works, etc etc...all of that is where we get the "acid house" sound. It's worth noting that when users were modding their 303s back in the 1990s during the ACIIIEEED craze, those mods generally were done to expand the synthesizer, and the sequencer would be left alone for the most part.

However, I should note that I'm very much a TB-303 hater...not because I haven't used them (I have, quite some time ago), but because I could NOT see the point of dropping up to $3k for a plastic box that really only did about 7-8 things well. That, and the fact that that sound (as well as the infamous "Juno Hoover" as well as the M1 House Piano) was super-played-out unless the machine(s) were in the hands of someone who could wring something amazing out of them through adding effects, modding the synth (such as the famous "Devilfish" mod), and doing something other than yanking the batteries out to generate sequences. So I'd suggest following nickgreenberg's lead here and going with a software version...by using a VSTi version, you open up the 303 to control capabilities that the hardware sequencer in it could NEVER do, plus the sound is super-easy for a VSTi to replicate without massively upping your CPU load.

Except that it doesn't work exactly like tape loops do.

I'm 100% down with the poster above that said you should probably look into an MPC instead. Just looking at cost ALONE points very strongly toward that and AWAY from modular, plus this build is sort of an attempt to build one (minus a lot of the useful firmware aspects). But don't take my word for it; let's surf over to Sweetwater and see what $1700 and change gets you...

MPC Live II = $1199
MPC One = $699 (you could get TWO of these!)
NI Maschine Plus = $1399
Elektron Octatrack mkII = $1399
Polyend Tracker = $599 (you could almost get THREE Trackers for what the build's modules alone cost)
Pioneer Toraiz = $899
Pioneer DJS-1000 = $1199

This falls into the "why you don't try and build a drum machine into your modular"-zone of errors. And the big error there is this idea that you can come up with something better in modular than an already-existing device has. Not...gonna...happen. Plus, any of those machines I've listed also contain the needed utility functions that the present build doesn't and CANNOT have due to the limitations of the cab.

Modular isn't a panacea for everything. This is another example of that.

Yeaaaaaaaaahhhh...no.

Please don't take the example you've posted as gospel for how a build should work. You're missing far too much in your example to even call that a proper synthesizer, and the original user you've gotten the idea from ALSO has made some fairly critical errors (VCAs? where are they?). This is one of the prime reasons I say that beginning modular users should NEVER get their info from YouTube...it's just too shot-full of bad info, and finding rational/knowledgeable modular users on there can be a real needle-in-the-haystack search. Might be a great video...but there's a lousy build in it.

You shouldn't buy a Pulplogic Zissou as a starter cab. They're awesome for specific builds...but trying to cram everything necessary for a PROPER modular in one is a very tall order, even for experienced synthesists. Go with a Mantis (as Jim's mentioned) or something similar...it'll still be portable (Tiptop even makes a dedicated gigbag for the Mantis) and you'll have ample room to do a proper build. Chuck this "beauty case" idea in the circular file, then spend some time looking at builds on here by experienced synthesists, especially ones that make use of some of the utility-hungry modules you've listed above. And keep this quote from Jim in mind:

"utilities are the inexpensive dull polish that make the expensive shiny modules actually shine and stops them tarnishing so quickly"

Damn right. You can build up a caseful of THOUSANDS of $$$ in sexy, shiny modules...but if you omit the utility modules and certain "boring" workhorses like attenuverters and VCAs, you'll just have an expensive noisemaker, not a synthesizer. Also, no one ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER gets a first modular build right. Or the second. Or...well, you get the idea. This is a process, and one that takes TIME to properly complete. Don't try and "speedrun" ModularGrid, as you'll only wind up wasting money and time in the end. Back up, take several deep breaths, then delete the above and start doing the real studying necessary to build a real modular. Also, picking up a copy of VCV Rack (costs $0) is something I'd strongly recommend so that you can see/hear firsthand what those "boring" modules are really there for.

1 x 104? Nah...look, these little one-row skiffs might look sharp, but unless you're at a point where you need to build mission-specific skiffs, don't do this. You're only going to set yourself up for either a halfassed build that can't do much, or one that can but where the controls have to be tweaked with tweezers because the ergonomics are so tight. Also...

Intellijel 4U x 104 Palette = $399
Tiptop Mantis (6U x 104) = $335

Personally, I don't see the point in spending MORE to get LESS. Start right with a more capable cab.

@Lugia Just curious what your total Amperage is that you're drawing off your circuits? How many dedicated circuits do you have in your home for the studio gear? Any tweaks to the electric worth mentioning?
-- merzky_shoom

The studio has three AC circuits, with two of those being specifically for the studio equipment, and the third being shared with lighting. The dedicated circuits are both 20A, and while the third is 15A, I treat it as if it were only rated for 10A...giving me a "safe" 50 Amps for the gear. Everything here goes through Furman power conditioners to keep noise and transients down to a minimum, although in the past I've used 20A circuits that were toroid-balanced with outstanding results...and I still might make that upgrade to the two dedicated lines.

This actually makes quite a bit of sense, and I'm a little surprised that no one's tinkered with no-input feedback paths all that much in Eurorack.

If you go back to one of the pioneers in this, namely David Lee Myers (ie: Arcane Device), his systems were largely built around matrix mixers tandemmed with delay lines and some other filters and timbral modifiers. This should be VERY easy to implement in Eurorack. Add some modulation, a bit of the typical Eurorack voodoo, stick it all in a Behringer cab, and I came up with:

Pretty cool...the left end is the modulation section, uses a Maths, Quadrax and eight free-run LFOs, plus a few mixing/modification modules to make that do a ton of interactive crossmodulation, plus output some VERY wild curves. You get six VCAs (switchable curve) after that for modulation and audio amplitude control as needed. The "beefy" part is in the center, where you'll find an 8 x 4 matrix mixer plus a pair of Pittsburgh Delay Networks, and there's also a touchpad-controlled switch for either audio or modulation. The right end (audio processing/output) contains eight VCFs, a really useful output processor (the T-racks...I have the standalone version, and it's VERY feedback-friendly), plus your submix from the four outputs of the matrix (you'd split these...and for that, I also added four buffered mults to make sure the audio levels stay up when splitting, if necessary). Then there's an Isolator for your isolated stereo outs plus your master output level.

Now that's a nice start-point...or if you like, a finished solution.

EDITED Mar 16th 2021, 04:14

Good stuff and I need to keep an eye on those mixing desks that Lugia talked about. Not sure where to locate one here in northern California.

Will Vegas work? It's a day-trip from there, but according to eBay (your place for ribs!), THIS is only 385 miles (if you use Sacramento as a defining ZIP code) away from you right now!: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Midas-SIENA-480-48-Channel-Sound-Reinforcement-Mixing-Console-w-Road-Case/324442991622?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4b8a4f2c06%3Ag%3A8q0AAOSwlRFdgU8p&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickk5v8gVt3hEWLVg%252F253w6XCYSnf7p04xGQALjyaUeSIsme2KzlygaKmUVikUD6QOHmgSWOeYS6vSr6R96uL9NUeB3KEZOF8c5NOTPGNJmWpe%252F494mJl4oJRqFe721xhrwG%252BGcm5Bn4NSSQhbl235zbHuLWLTrVSjuMONOk9ehvJnjeeGBhRK1htQOqnMKdyXmFn%252Bht5L1X7%252F8PB7n%252BUc44%252Fm70fh23126vgRxLX79U6TvWRu0plQQTQf3zweUtJeiNhqAf3rBFfGorciyvNWu%252B%252F8tSqdG6dgOML7Vl0JRLBKywXnz%252F4Hg1UdRLKkAYr37lsbQ55W9DSPdd11IWoKqom1xhU3DCA9vQsdgeLfbGhtkdZ0VnNx%252B8cZlkPKAaR8XtDJ5PVPEEfFygCTwtMd88aaBAD%252BOHYlocOyYIIskpEUM3cA1zKujlvK%252F%252B0MD%252BsGeeXaHmXwTeynUvVF8FBXk0dxJ6mycflQMN0HxnsezayZf%252BsdKx%252F8RY5qGV7g9w%252BUsyK5SsLvgNOb2GMWmSdXrUtdOJVeuGeVkqPgtngfDRxiFjYGy%252FOhMxrjveog1R3Aiw1EKMSwkORfeQjPcgwQ8fr9ZQ98FbdhCrNwmLIbSmLR%252Bns7StEe81nJJbddMhYLyCH%252BWPc1oIXPlDqA7VaDvLWc08wQY6MMFTTqq%252Bfwx1nws0LlPsPOS6ZDhYGnvaIjFpCLI6ffGYaZejiQextBMBy1BvcrOl6sdIK60M81Wp83L37uOUqZgwlYDOWAPD%252B1WG4aUBCfNd5LCDeBwEzscSfw%253D%253D%7Ccksum%3A3244429916220bd20303638948caa1d4d2b478830e5b%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524&LH_BIN=1&LH_ItemCondition=3000

Man...that's got to be the most hideous URL in Interwebz history! But yeah...if you're willing to do an overnight trip, there's a BUNCH of stuff getting blown out in the Las Vegas area, probably due to the huge tourism downturn. The Siena was another desk that was in the running here until I found that irresistable FIVE.

I did get some new JBL 5 inch monitors with stands and they sound amazing for a low cost affordable studio speaker. Also have two new desks to assemble for my home studio. At least new house has lots of space for studio gear and no more gun shots or homeless all over the bloody place!

OK...well, now you'll need a few guns so that you can fire them off randomly to keep the ambiance right. Those JBLs should make excellent "check" monitors, but you'll want something flatter and with more low end for your mains and/or main mixdown monitors. Ran across the discount on these the other day...they'll be PERFECT: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Gold8--tannoy-gold-8-8-inch-powered-studio-monitor That point-source driver provides a really clear stereo image...plus, I learned on some older/bigger Tannoys decades ago, and the mixes I did on those STILL stand up.

Whew such a relief. At least I can record pure modular now. I do need to get some acoustic treatment egg crate stuff to put on the walls to keep the massive echo effect from ruin my video recordings.
-- sacguy71

Don't go nuts with that stuff. You want SOME room in your room, instead of trying to suck up all the stray audio. One thing that works that you might consider would be hanging some "clouds" at various angles from the ceiling. By using different angles, what bounce the clouds might have will be misdirected, plus the space above them works nicely for absorbing low-mid to midrange sounds, and it kills the bounce from the largest "problem surface" most rooms have. Also, keep an eye out for bass buildup that'll necessitate adding some bass traps in a few 90-degree-angled corners.

Dammit...this is making me want to add that "Maths skiff" to the sandbox...pair of Maths + a MISO to feed ALL of the patchables here.

You are looking for an analog logic module! Mystic circuits Ana is my top recommendation.

-- Miszczyk

Save that that's not exactly a "logic" module...it has some very useful functions, however, including multiplication of CV levels. But "logic" for the most part refers to the actual Boolean gates themselves, while this is more akin to an adder/4-quadrant multiplier/discriminator. Definitely does more than the SumDif, but the question then becomes whether or not the OP can fit that into their build by freeing up 4 hp somewhere.

Maybe MG needs another category for "CV Arithmetics"...? It's not exactly "modulation", because these recalculate the CV level instead of imposing a modulation curve on them. And it's not "logic" since there's no status-dependent digital on/off states. Nor is this a "comparator" as such...hm...

Nightmare, actually. This will be VERY difficult to properly control without the right utility modules. And not in the "you just have to get used to it"-difficult way, but more like "I think I'm going to kick this across the studio"-difficult.

For one thing, while it's obvious that the intent here is to create a bass + drum setup, there's problems emerging almost immediately. Take the mixer, for example...it's stereo, sure, but where are the pans? I'm betting you don't want the sounds panned hard-left and hard-right, but that's exactly what's going to happen here. There's also lots of sound sources + the Magneto that can make use of modulation sources...and no modulation sources save for a pair of two-stage EGs.

Then there's the matter of the case itself. Do you REALLY want to cram things into a 2 x 84 hp cab? If you can go larger, I'd strongly suggest doing so. But for the modules, the opposite applies; you need LESS big panels here, as they're crowding out things that should be there.

And then, VCAs...sure, it's a drum-type thing and it would SEEM like VCAs won't be needed...but guess again! You need VCAs for at least your modulation section, so that you have amplitude control over modulation signals. These allow you to get more animation for your sound sources, and having VCAs in your modulation paths lets you go from a tiny wobble to wild swings whenever you wish.

I'd suggest stopping going further with this for now. Instead, get a copy of VCV Rack and get accustomed to why certain modules are essential to ANY build, such as VCAs, attenuverters, submixers, etc etc etc. Also, prowl through other builds on MG that are created by experienced modular users and see how they approach the same technical issues that're present here. Nobody but NObody gets a first build on MG right...but then, this isn't a video game, and no one should EVER "speed-run" building something on this order of complexity. Take the time to study how/why these things work, get some more fluency with what you'd use for that, THEN re-approach this. I guarantee that, if you take the time, the results WILL bear this out.

The Roland 100M dual VCA works a bit like the ARP 2600 VCA: you have to raise the initial level slightly before it'll be reactive with the EG's output. But keep in mind that once you've got that slight "open-up" set, you'll need to really "thump" it with the EG's output into one of the VCA slider inputs. Also, try switching between LIN and EXP to see if things improve; linear response is what you'd normally use for CV and modulation signals, and the exponential response is tailored for audio use.

Went nuts on this...

I opted to go ahead and "complete" this. So the cab's now full in this version, and there's been some sizable changes...notably in appearance, because where I could substitute smaller clones for the fullsized Mutable modules, I did. In a build this small, it's essential to shrink things down as best as possible while maintaining functionality AND ergonomics.

Top row: Konstant Labs PWRchekr (for keeping tabs on your DC rail performance), Erica Quant (primarily) for the Plaits clones, then those Plaits clones themselves (I doubled the Plaits complement). After that is another internally-quantized dual VCO from Klavis; technically, this is now a TWO-voice system with dual VCOs per voice. The Veils clone handles summing with CV control over mix levels, and this can either be split with the Plaits clones on two of its VCAs, and the Klavis Dual Waves on the other two. This then feeds the two sides of a Malekko Dual Borg (a clone of the original Wiard version) VCF/gate. After that is a stereo mixer for situations where you'd want all of the VCOs as a single "voice" with stereo panning. However, this is something of an option; you could just as easily use the mixer at some other point in the "voicing" row. After this, you then have two stereo effects modules: Happy Nerding's FX Aid XL, then the Beads. But at the end is a final bit of fun, where you've got a dual-input stereo mixer...allowing you to parallel-patch the FX Aid and Beads if you want, putting one unit on "voice 1" and the other on "voice 2".

Bottom row: MIDI Interface, Pam's, then a mk4 Disting because the Disting EX has some depth issues with some cases. The Pachinko is a Marbles clone, then there's the Stages after this. Past that, I totally redid the modulation section. This now starts with a Tides clone (instead of the Ochd, since you get more timescale flexibility + CV with the Tides even though it's only a dual LFO) followed by a 1/2 Veils clone to give the modulation section a pair of VCAs. The MISO after that allows you to take signals from the Tides clone or the Quadrax (or BOTH!) and warp the hell out of them, deriving even more possible modulation signals. And lastly, the Quadrax + the Qx, which allows the Quadrax to do some extremely complicated modulation behavior.

Now you've got something way more potent. By "scrunching" things with the clone modules, I was able to up the module count and the system capabilities without arriving at something that would be a pain to use ergonomically. Mind you, NOBODY gets a first build right, and even this has some areas where things could be improved further; going with a larger case might be one idea there, which would allow you to implement even more improvements. Just 20 more hp per row is a HUGE step forward from a 2 x 84 hp setup without increasing cab costs (in fact, something like a Mantis would be cheaper than many other powered 2 x 84s).

Actually, there's not really any "standard widths" in Eurorack. You see 84 hp (and multiples thereof) a lot but that's because 84 hp is about the limit that you can jam into a 19" rackspace. But other widths you see include 60 hp (Moog), 104 hp, 126 hp, 140 hp (Uli), 168 hp (double 19" rack width) and 197 hp (from ADDAC, using 1 meter length rails). As a rule, most cab makers tend to stay with even-numbered hp amounts since the vast majority of Eurorack modules have panel widths that come out to even numbered amounts. But not all...

The real bottleneck on sizes comes down to power issues...amounts of headers on distro boards, power load capability vs. potential load from the modules, that sort of thing. However, there ARE ways to deal with those, plus you don't exactly have to use typical Eurorack supplies...with some poking around, you can find LINEAR power supplies that fit the bill. And yeah, linear supplies are worth the expense + weight, as they're quite incapable of spewing ultrasonic rubbish onto your DC busses, and they tend to tolerate inrush behavior better than switching supplies. No radiated fields, either, aside of the usual line frequency junk (which they're usually good at filtering out).

EDITED Mar 13th 2021, 03:46

+1 on the Joranalogue Comparator, to be sure! It's got windowing functions, which means you can extract multiple gates from a single inputted modulation signal, depending on the signal's state. There's only a couple like that in Eurorack; I myself use several Frederick Haer units for this (definitely NOT Eurorack) and they also have windowing...awesome for start/stop commands, logic tampering, and a bunch of other things (waveshaping! naaaaaaasty clipped-up pulsewaves!).

Totally useless. For one thing, you need about 16 Distings...for starters. I would also consider adding about 372 hp of VCAs to this so that you've got enough VCAs, even if this happens to be too many VCAs. Lastly, I think OSHA regulations probably requires the following module: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-der-blinkenlights

EDIT: Oh, yeah...this also: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/d-machinery-event-horizon It gives you the "sound" that "all" the "kids" "want" to "hear" these "days".

EDITED Mar 13th 2021, 01:54

Modular isn't about "looks". It's all about FUNCTION. Plus, people sort of expect to see a hodgepodge of different panels now that modular is more commonplace and that people sort of "get" what Eurorack's about.

Don't worry about what it looks like...worry a LOT more about what it SOUNDS like.