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For me, it's VCO - VCA - VCF - VCA, especially if there's more than one VCO. By putting your source VCOs on VCAs, you can then cause some initial timbral changes prior to the VCF by using different waveforms and bringing them in and out of the signal path via different modulation schemes. Case in point: on my AE system, I have six banks that can be configured as complex VCOs, since they have two VCOs, two DCOs for modulation, and a dual VCA plus a mixer for the VCO outs. With that, I can then use LFOs, EGs, whatever to ping around "inside" that module structure and generate wild timbral changes simply with modulation sources. The VCAs function to control the FM signal from each DCO to its complimentary VCO in the more "basic" patching, but that configuration can get really nuts really quick with a few extra pinwires.
Oh, it's definitely not a 100% substitute for the Real Thing, to be sure! I aim beginners toward VCV when it's clear that someone's in a position where they have ZERO idea about modular synthesis, with the intent that once you know what should be in a proper modular, you should THEN start building. A few stick with VCV, and I'll also note that VCV + its VST extension does make for a good sequencing/clocking environment, but in the end, VCV is only a "model" of something that works so much better in actual hardware.
I do have it, but I still find it to be somewhat untrustworthy when larger setups are in use, especially if there's a lot in the audio paths. Those audio modules are often "bad actors" as far as CPU load is concerned. And that makes perfect sense; it's harder to accurately emulate the behavior of an analog audio device than it is to be "inaccurate" and fudge the results. It's very much related to the fact that digital computers don't like chaotic systems...and as far as gobs of waveforms and such being generated and modified in a hardware modular patch, you ARE working with a system that has some inherent chaos, and the various flavors of "chaos" actually factor into what things sound like.
If I were buying Eurorack right now and needed cost- and space-efficient EGs, I'd go right to the Ladik listings. Not only do they offer both AD/AR and ADSR gens, some of their ADSRs offer envelope delays, initial envelope levels, variable holds, and so on that you don't tend to see elsewhere in Eurorack...or, at least not for Ladik's prices.
No. Diode or Boolean ORs are actually rather different from a basic mixer. With an OR gate (of either type) the module reads the incoming gate signals and combines AND regenerates a resulting +5V gate. In a diode OR, this regeneration doesn't happen, but the functionality is still the same: combine gates to get a "composite" gate. This is different from a unity-gain mixer, where incoming signals are simply mixed together...this won't arrive at that "composite" gate result.
Another module this all gets confused with would be adders. In their case, you input various CVs, and the output is the arithmetical sum of the incoming voltages. These won't work to combine gates AT ALL...what you'll actually get when two gates coincide are the +5V amounts when the gates aren't coincidental, and +10V when they are. However, you CAN still arrive at a single gate by feeding the adder to a comparator and setting its threshold to, say, +6V so that whenever that level is exceeded, the comparator will fire off a gate. But it won't be a true "composite" gate; rather, this patch would only fire a gate off during those coincidental points...which can ALSO be useful, but it's not what an OR does.
If you have any specific suggestions on the flangers and phasers modules, those will be very much welcome :)
-- abstractrhythms
One I've found intriguing as of late is Frequency Central's Stasis Leak. In 6 hp, you get a stereo chorus, tap tempo delay, and reverb. Plus, since the module takes a mono input and "stereoizes" that, you get that extra perk along with the FX. Plus, Happy Nerding's multieffects modules, the FX Aid (4 hp) and FX Aid XL (6 hp) are big wins if you need a larger variety of FX algorithms. Potent...AND space-efficient.
Feature request: add the ability to archive racks for when you're tired of looking at them but don't want to delete them!
-- troux
+1 for me :-)
P.S. / Edit: Since that would costs storage on the web server, it might be considered to make this available to unicorn accounts only?
-- GarfieldModular
+1 here as well...but as for the archiving, a better idea might be some sort of DLable format that can be read (but obviously NOT manipulated) offline by users. By setting up the ability to DL and UL archived racks, this then opens up MG's storage issues while still letting users work on their racks...archived or otherwise...at will. And yeah, this oughta be a Unicorn feature...yet another reason for getting that Unicorn account.
If this is supposed to interface with a Max patch, it's awfully limited. And a lot of that is directly attributable to trying to use too small a cab for the build. As many of us here have noted, trying to use these "beauty case" builds is fraught with restrictions that actually impair the synth's capabilities and performability. They're fine for "mission specific" rigs, but trying to build a full-on Max destination in one is asking for trouble.
First thing I would suggest: remove the ES-8 and go with an outboard interface. Any DC-coupled audio interface works, and I and a couple of others here use the "obsolete" MOTU 828mkii as that. By going with an outboard interface, you can easily expand via various interface I/Os, plus the 828mkii isn't considered "optimal" for recording these days, so they come in for cheap. And Ableton CV Tools has really good DAW integration as...well, it's part of Live in the first place, so there's no need to hunt down plugs, screw excessively with interfacing protocols, and the like. Also, since it's NOT in the cab, you'll be more likely to want to use it on other CV/g/t-capable synths.
One essential module for ANY external instrument has to be an input preamp WITH an envelope follower. That last part is essential; given the peculiar envelope that a shamisen has, it's something you'll 100% want to work with for modulating filters, VCAs and the like. That way, you can also use the shamisen as a controller that can be used to impose its envelope behavior onto the electronic signals.
And it's also not expensive; the Doepfer A-119 is pretty much the "gold standard" at only $99, and it provides a comparator gate in addition to the preamp and envelope follower. When the incoming level exceeds your threshold setting, the A-119 fires off a gate, which stops when the level goes back below the threshold.
Ha! You've discovered some of the other voodoo that an outboard DC-coupled interface allows!
This sort of thing is why I went with it. Instead of having the CV I/O as a device-dedicated setup, using an external interface in this way is much more fluid. And given that Ableton WILL allow multiple types of streams to the 828 via CV Tools along with the easy (and CHEAP) implementation of more I/O channels...well, hey, it kinda sells itself! And with the right adjustments to CV Tools allowing compatibility to...well, pretty much anything that'll take CVs...it's possible to have those scalings present whenever you call them up.
This should work: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/mutable-instruments-stages In this case, you can assign the time/level jacks as needed, and even break out the EG segments so that you can also use this as a sequencer. Not your basic ADSR, and it IS a tad spendy, but if you want that level of control, it doesn't get much better than this...even at $359.
I use an Antelope Orion32 for the 'heavy lifting' via USB. But I also use a MOTU 828 mkii for CV Tools via Firewire 400. You just have to set up the routings for these properly in whatever software your machine uses for audio multitrack routing.
But yeah, you can run multiple interfaces PROVIDED your DAW and audio routing software can deal with this properly. With Ableton, the DAW certainly doesn't have a problem with that. This is actually a bit similar to the issues one sees when adding an ADAT Lightpipe interface to another interface, then letting the machine know about the new/extra channels. And in fact, depending on what DAW interface you're using, that strategy might be the right one here; you could use one of Expert Sleepers' Lightpipe-equipped modules for that.
If I remember correctly, Butch Vig and Billy Corgan half-jokingly said the Mutron Biphase was their secret weapon when recording Siamese Dream.
-- farkas
Yep, I think I remember seeing the same interview some time ago. And the Biphase is definitely something Butch Vig would glom onto. In fact, I don't even see a regular version of it on Reverb, just a reissue for $670-ish. But they DO have a hyper-rare Mu-tron 3X modulation filter/effect pedal there for only...ok, get the oxygen ready...
Or something else I ran across might be useful there as well. Over on KVR, there's a Scala format "tuning bank" plugin: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/scala-creator-by-homegrown-sounds $22, and I'm thinking that it's certainly worth that. Using that, you should be able to blow Scala tuning tables into most anything that can accept them.
Checking the 4ms site reveals some operation basics: https://4mscompany.com/p.php?p=679&c=5 The CV control here actually involves using an LFO with one or more channels to modulate the halfwaving process going on with the "slice" functions. Not like a VCA and how it deals with CVs, but there's some basic similarities there.
Not even close. The Mellotron is the tape-based "protosampler" that defined a lot of music from the mid-1960s up thru the end of the 1970s or thereabouts. For example, the opening of "Strawberry Fields Forever"...those are the flute tracks from a Mk III. Great instrument, maddening maintenance requirements.
Now, Mutron was a spin off from ARP and they put out effects pedals that are VERY sought-out to this day. The Biphase was this amazing phase shifter that employed both swept and fixed/tunable filters and some really interesting modulation methods, and the original developer collaborated with Electro-Harmonix when they designed the Flanger Hoax. Flanger Hoaxes are a bit spendy, but NOTHING compared to the price of vintage Mutron gear!
Geez...I hate it when it does those gawdawful long URLs. Anyway, what that is is more or less a clone of the old Mu-tron Biphase, which pretty much no one can afford now. And while E-H recently discontinued this pedal, there's plenty of them on the used market still...although, the used prices are starting to look like what I paid for mine NEW, so if you want to pull the trigger on a couple of these, I'd suggest moving a little bit quickly. Anyway, Jarre's classic string-wash phasing (like on "Oxygene") uses a pair of the Mu-tron units for left and right channels of his string synth, sweeping out of sync with each other. The Flanger Hoax should get you to where that lives, though.
Well, let's look at this in more practical terms, then.
Buchla 285e = $1599 (wrong format)
Club of the Knobs 1630 clone = EUR 970 (wrong format)
Synth-werk's 1630 clone = EUR 1950 (also the wrong format)
Encore Frequency Shifter = $399 (but it IS Eurorack)
Modcan Dual FS = $349 (and two channels...this is the closest in terms of price vs function to the Behringer)
Synthesis Technology E560 = $339 (not purely an FS, though)
Tokyo Tape Music Center 185 = $580 (clone of the original Buchla 185)
Cwejman FSH-1 = $680
...and the Behringer comes in at $199. But with the possible exception of the Buchla 285e, you're dealing with small-run devices, which increases the cost. Behringer appears to be using their usual board fab methods, though, and it's far cheaper to have boards stuffed via automation and wave-soldered.
And in truth, if I could have any frequency shifter I wanted, I'd try and source the mid-70s standalone unit from 360 Systems. Of all of them that I've heard or used, IT is the best...with any cloned Bode-type coming in next. But if you've ever tried to find one of those 360 Systems ones, you'd know that it was something of a fool's errand to locate one. They almost NEVER appear on the used market.
Couple of things...first up, you really don't want a mono output, especially with that Beads in there. The output module also has connections for the Intellijel (I'm presuming that's what's specced here) case's 1/4" jacks, so those are a tad unnecessary, meaning you shouldn't have a problem adding in the normal stereo out. For that matter, I'd consider tossing the mult and scope tiles as well; scopes are nice IF you have room for them, but a 7U x 84 case like this doesn't have that room. And as for the mult, you can jam more functionality in by chucking it and going with inline mult widgets, since there's no need here for a buffered mult, apparently.
Better choices? Well, here's a layout for the tiles that makes loads more sense:
Now, here you've got another FX processor, which will be useful for "stereoizing" mono signals. And that dual stereo mixer gives you hot outputs for more modular processing while, at the same time, it also provides your stereo output at line level via a pair of the cab's 1/4" jacks, AND you can mix your FX tile's stereo out and the Beads' stereo out right there for your final mix balancing. Definitely more useful!
the bode shifter doesnt even have an external shift input, cmon -_0
-- moremagic
Sooooo... what might those three CV inputs do, then? One of those controls doesn't necessarily need that, but the others do...and also, there doesn't really seem to be space for the entire line of nomenclature that you'd normally see on a full-on 5U panel. At least, not if one likes reading panel labels without a microscope...
It could, but you'd still have to generate the wavetable somehow. But arriving at inharmonic partials is actually going to be REALLY easy as soon as Uli starts tossing those $199 Frequency Shifters out the door. This sort of sound design is precisely what Harald Bode's amazing but normally-expensive-AF device is for.
One other issue about "tight" builds that rely on very slim modules: they're a bitch to work with live unless you have toothpicks for fingers. So, yeah...if the 914 is going to see lots of live tweaking (and it sounds like it might), you're better off with the bigger module. Now, let's see what sort of gibberish I can kick out HERE... (pause for /u to fire up the grid and go berserk)
.......OK. Now, this is a serious AF drone machine:
You've got TWO voices here, actually. Most of the top row is the first, and the second is hiding down there in the lower right.
Top row: I switched your main drone VCO up. Way up. The Mindphaser is actually more related to something like a Buchla 259 than a typical VCO, which means you've got two oscillators in a configuration where one's the "source" and the other's the "modulator", but of course that's like the "serving suggestion" on a frozen dinner. The reality will be that you'll be able to use this in a huge number of configurations, all of which will allow you to not only generate pitch, but also lots of different methods of timbral generation. This sort of oscillator is PERFECT for elaborate waveshapes to feed into the 914 via the Quad VC Mixer. Plus, there's a surprise about that mixer in a bit...
Anyway, the other "odd thing" there is that single fader. WTF is it there for? Ahhhh...it's there because Moog 914s ALWAYS have those two I/O jacks, even if it's Uli making 'em. And why those two jacks exist at either end of the 914 is so that you can insert an attenuator for manual feedback control, allowing you to use the 914 as a RESONANT filterbank, sort of akin to the Serge Resonant EQ. The fader is the attenuator in question, natch...and I put a fader there so that you can have better incremental control AND have a quick visual feedback on your foldback level in the feedback path. Patch it from the 914 OUT to its IN (which would be the fader's OUT being sent there), and you've got it. After that, there's an interesting VCF/VCA combo that can work that way...or as a lowpass gate for yet another "sneak West Coast feature". Plus, you could also make this a bandpass gate or highpass gate, since the VCF in there is a multimode. This also lets you have some global timbral control over the drone voice. And the last thing up top is a Bastl Ciao!, which also contains a dual stereo mixer in addition to your headphone preamp and isolated 1/4" outs. Why a mixer? You'll see...
Bottom row: The Frequency Central Infinitely Maybe gives you a mixer for incoming CVs as well as the usual noise generator for sample and hold and random gates. So you can actually S&H a composite CV signal there, not just merely one source. This is also your main clock, but if you need to override that with the Neutron's, that's cool too. Then the next thing is an omsonic melodic contour generator...a "complex sample-and-hold" that gives you controllable quasi-melodic patterns. But then, I wasn't content there, so I also added a Penrose quantizer after that, which you can ping with, say, the random gates from the I.M.. Feed it an LFO curve and have the gates lock the new value, and you can assign those scalar values to whatever pitches you want. The Penrose has the sole drawback of being a kit module, but if you don't have suitable solder-fu, you can probably find a builder.
Now, the mixer surprise. It's actually the next module, a CVable quadrature LFO, which outputs four identical sines on the same frequency...but the outputs rotate phase by 90 degrees. Sound-wise, this doesn't affect anything, but when this is in LFO mode, you get the outputs working in a "cascading" phase rotation, and when this is hooked up with each phase tap going to each VCA CV, you can then "riff" the Mindphaser's outputs to create yet MORE timbral variation. Then there's the quad LFO...but after that is a little something from DPW Design that gives you a CV mixer, an adder, a comparator, and attenuverters so that you can polarize incoming signals...both inputs are, yep, attenuverters. And as for the comparator...that device lets you send a gate out when you exceed a certain voltage threshold; in this case, the A input is the "threshold" and the B becomes the "signal", so that when A exceeds B, you get a gate output which you can use anywhere, and when B > A, there's no gate.
VCAs are there after this so that you can have level control over two modulation signals or, if needed, you can "rob" one for audio, although the drone "voice" really isn't set up like that. Its single VCA in the Optocore should suffice for CV over final audio levels. Most of the time, though, these will see modulation level control action. Next is your dual ADSR...which actually works pretty well here, since you only have two VCF/VCA outputs from the voicing. Then Voice #2, all Dreadbox. The Hysteria stayed, and I got it a friend in the Eudemonia VCF/mix/VCA module. That gives you a basic single oscillator voice in just 20 hp.
Then there's the last two modules. Both of these are Frequency Central Stasis Leaks, which give you your choice of reverb, tap delay, or chorus. There's also one for each "voice", plus these take your mono audio signals and "stereoizes" them to add some spatial aspects. So, how those work is that each stereo output gets fed to the stereo inputs on the Ciao! and then you have mixing control between Voice 1 (drone) and 2 (basslines, melodics, percussives, etc etc), and this feeds that to the headphone pre AND the 1/4" outs.
Not too shabby, I think. The most spendy thing in there is the Mindphaser, but given what it can do as opposed to a pair of basic VCOs, the price is very justified. And the rest of the module complement doesn't ever have a price tag above $240, and most of them are actually down in the $50-150 range. Hell, I myself would dig playing THIS build!
Okay played around with my VCAs a little bit more and found the Doepfer 130-2 VCAs are creating a pretty loud clicking sound when being on volume control duty. Out of plaits is connected to the VCA and CV is connected to an LFO (doesnt matter which waveform). Is that normal or am I doing something wrong ?
-- 9xpad
If the issue isn't limited to one waveform (and one that has a hard leading edge!), then my bet is that you could be overloading one of the inputs...and since it's a "click" on the output, my bet is that the culprit is the CV input. Try this: set up a VERY SLOW triangle LFO, then feed that to the CVs. At the same time, also connect an oscilloscope to watch the LFO cycling through the waveform. My bet is that once the LFO reaches the maximum voltage limits, the "click" appears. Also, set the scope so that you can read the voltage on the Y axis, and you'll have a good indication of what's really happening and at what voltage level it occurs.
This click could also be the result of some DC offset voltage getting into the LFO waveform and pushing it well beyond the operational limit of the CV inputs. Remember: if you have a +5/-5 volt cycle, inputting an offset will make that +whatever voltage the offset is. Jam in an offset of +10VDC, and suddenly your high value on the mod signal is peaking at a really unacceptable +15V. If the LFO has an offset control, that should be at ZERO when generating bipolar modulation signals.
I've done a few tests of routing from VCV -> Ableton CV Tools -> MOTU 828 mkii with pretty good results.
-- Lugia
Any chance you can expound upon this in a separate thread?
-- jb61264
Actually, once I start doing some YT stuff of my own, showcasing the CV/gate to/from DAW setup is very much on the table. My objective is to show people that you really DON'T need hi-tweak stuff, and that something that might cost several hundred might really come in a lot cheaper than you think, and that MOTU trick is definitely in that ballpark.
The biggest culprit is plugging your modular synth into one outlet and having your recording system (computer and audio interface) plugged into a different outlet. If you can get both parts plugged into the same outlet that might be helpful for reducing or eliminating that ground hum. That would be the first thing I'd try to fix.
-- Ronin1973
Spot-on, Ronin. I've found that the majority of audio issues revolve around that problem. The fix in a large studio is to star-ground EVERYTHING...including the AC outlet ground pins! And they'll use some voodoo wiring for that, some OFC or Mogami alloy nonsense...but really, all you'd need is some stranded 18ga hookup wire from Home Depot, etc and you don't necessarily have to go bonkers with wiring every...single...outlet. Just connect everything so the wires aim toward their destination at the groundpoint on the mixer, and that SHOULD fix at least 80-90% of the crud. It's also a good bit easier than diving into the modular's guts...but if you've gotta, you gotta!
Sho'nuff. I've had my similar TASCAM DR-680 mkii out for a tad of field testing...works like a charm. Now, if you have something along those lines, where there's proper XLR I/O on the machine, THEN go with some better mics. That's when the real fun starts, because there's so damn many ways to employ mics in the field as well as a seemingly-equal amount of mics to fit those uses.
F'rinstance, this: https://www.amazon.com/Microphone-CVM-VM20-Professional-Smartphone-Camcorder/dp/B08NFT8DYB/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=comica+microphone&qid=1627696273&sr=8-6 That's no ordinary mic..."shotguns" are used for distant pickups, since they have a very tight hypercardioid pattern off the front. So, let's say you've got four tracks to play with, and you're out in nature. For that, you'd want four mics: two are for a normal stereo X-Y pickup pattern with omni mics, and then you can use two shotguns and aim them wherever you want as your "leads"...but the nice thing about those shotguns is that you can be several feet from your audio source and STILL grab it pretty well. Been hearing a lot of good things about those Comicas, too...
I really don't get your point here. Why you call it blathering? Just because you did this back to 1979?
-- Quantum_Eraser
No, because you've got all of these people thinking this is the new, hot way to work according to the info sources like YouTube, but no one ever seems to talk about the benefits and liabilities of doing so with much accuracy. It's definitely not the same as working with a laptop live, but it really isn't a simple matter in its own right, and the actual details to make it work smoothly seem to never come up...like setting up a "clock bus", for example.
To me, this is similar to and about as irresponsible as advocating for the idea that a 1 x 84 hp skiff is an "ideal starter modular".
The REAL layout fix is to refresh the build page (probably a couple of times for good measure) and then check the "screenshot" under the "View" menu after refreshing that as well. Once the build page and the screenshot match, THEN you can post the layout by cut/pasting the build page's URL into your Forum post.
Hmmmm....can't work with the build. Don't put in a link to the .jpg screenshot, but just the build page's URL, and that'll put the PROPER build layout up here. Also, before doing that, refresh the build page a couple of times then check the screenshot (you'll need to refresh!) to make sure they're identical, and THEN post the page link.
This was amusing. I really, really ripped into this one...partly because builds of this size are a total PITA to try and sort out early on. As a result, the kit modules got deleted...but in that process, I punched the capabilities of the original WAY up. Also, there were some lurking ergonomics issues AND a couple of those modules exceeded the "skiff depth rule of thumb" of 45mm...one was way up around 60mm, which for a basic module is sort of...well, not good. Anyway, here's what resulted:
Four VCOs (with quantizing!), quad 2-stage EG, eight VCAs, Nyle Steiner's rip-yer-head-off PERFECT for leads VCF, mono-to-stereo tap delay/reverb/chorus AND a Happy Nerding FX Aid XL. And the cherry on the cake: step down AND step up I/O on the end so that you have both stereo out AND IN so that you can bring external audio through the VCF/FX while having both channels under VCA control via that Zlob hex VCA. There are bunches of "sneaky functions" in there, too...this took the original idea and hooked it up to a bottle of nitrous while also improving the patching ergonomics.
So, left to right: Polyend MIDI interface and ADDAC dual sample and hold...and then the FUN starts! Quad Doepfer LFO, quad Noise Engineering EG with loopable envelopes so you actually have EIGHT LFOs if you didn't use any of 'em for envelopes. And then the killer...TWO Klavis Twin Waves, and a Joranalogue wavefolder positioned for either Klavis module to use. This all feeds to the Zlob Vnicvrsal VCA which has six "breakable" VCAs plus an internal mixbus. Tiptop's Forbidden Planet is a copy of the Steiner-Parker Synthacon VCF...and take it from a former Synthacon owner, that VCF just looooves to shriek and yowl and get used on leads that can cut right through anything. Fan-damn-tastic VCF. After that, there's a dual VCA from After Later that's based on the Mutable Veils topology, albeit as just a pair which can be used as two stereo VCAs or summed for mono. Frequency Central's Stasis Leak gives you your basic effects, namely a tap delay, stereo reverb, and chorus, then I put an FX Aid XL in so that you can have, say, delay + reverb, or any sort of combo of what these two can do. And at the end, there's a Riders In the Storm CON, which has the stereo level shift down to line from modular...AND an identical pair of up-shifters to go from line TO modular, which allows some interesting possibilities, such as processing an external source, or setting up something akin to the Minimoog's "headphone jack trick" that lets you set up a feedback loop.
And really, that's NOT everything I stuffed in here. There's a lot of hidden things, such as the ability to do some very strange things with the Klavis VCOs such as random signal generation, LFO capabilities, crossmod, etc etc. And while I did shift a lot of functions around, the only ones that are wholly missing now are the ring modulator (use a VCA instead, now that you've got eight!) and the mult (use inline widgets instead...small builds need to be 100% function, and multiple modules are robbing space from that in small builds). Otherwise, everything you had is in there (minus the kit modules), but pumped up on 'roids. Better, I think...plus these modules will play really nicely with each other and other additions when you expand the build to 9U.
VCAs. The thing that new builders neglect...until they discover just how much their build SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS without them!
VCAs have so many uses, it's nuts. But then, you have to remember that the initial idea for modular synthesis partly came from analog COMPUTERS, which are very dependent on voltage relationships with/between op-amps. Since all the analog computer voodoo lies in how you use those, it makes perfect sense that we have a similar circuit in modular synths.
Anything that needs level control for which you don't happen to have several extra arms and hands, that's where VCAs go. Audio and CV/mod levels are the basics, though. You can also use them as amplitude modulators, by feeding an audio signal to both the signal AND CV inputs. Lots of clangers and yowls! A couple of them make up the guts of stereo autopanners. And performance mixers are usually jam-packed with VCAs to control levels, panning, AUX send/returns, and so forth. And if you want to scan/xfade through a VCO's waveforms, a quad VCA + a quadrature LFO are a must. And that list goes on...
I think some of the problem with them lies not just with the "boring factor", but the term "amplifier". People look and think "well...I've GOT an amplifier and it's hooked up to my speakers already, so I don't need all of these amplifiers...right?" Wrong. Whatever the cause of this, it's a HUGE trap and part of the "boring module" issues that people run across...which I've termed "sexy module syndrome". These modules don't come with a plethora of knobs and lights and so forth, so people load up on the "better" modules that DO have all of that...then wonder why their $7k+ box sounds like total ass, give up on modular, and yet another cab gets consigned to the closet. It's not necessary...people just need to do their homework about these instruments BEFORE grabbing the Magic Plastic and burning yet another expensive hole in it.
Yeaaahhh...computers have never been something I'm 100% confident with in music. Yes, things are WAY better than a decade or two ago, and I'm not even going to go into the strides made since things like Dyaxis were the only way to go. At this point, I've gotten past being jinky about them in the studio, but using one live still gives me pause. And HELL yes, there's a huge difference between a "virtual" device and actual hardware...which is one of the things that makes me chuckle when I see people blathering on about the virtues of "DAWless" work; c'mon gang, I was doing that sort of thing as far back as 1979, and you're just NOW telling me how cool it is? Ha!
As for VCV...I look at it both as a useful tool AND a teaching device. However, when a VCV patch starts getting into the turf where you find big Monster Case builds, VCV tends to overtax its host machine. But it IS useful as a sequencing environment, since my experiences with it have taught me that it's the sonic aspects that really suck down the cycles, and I've done a few tests of routing from VCV -> Ableton CV Tools -> MOTU 828 mkii with pretty good results.
I've used MD as my field 2-track of choice for decades now. Very small, inobtrusive, but solid performance. At present, both the portable and the studio MD deck are both Sony units.
But that's not the whole deal there...the big performance kicker with my MD use are these fantastic, tiny omnis that I use as a binaural pair, clipping them to my glasses earpieces so that they have a proper "head" for spatialization. By doing that, you get a recording that PRECISELY gives you the directional cues as you heard them in the field on headphones, and with a little M/S tweaking, you can translate that nicely to normal stereo. https://www.microphonemadness.com/mm-bsm-6-micro-binaural-stereo-microphones-w-shure-premium-holding-clips.html are the very model...I got mine in 2005, and the design works so well it's still unchanged 15+ years later! Even if you get a different field recorder, I'd still look into those mics if I were you...
Well, it IS quite transparent, which I would expect out of Presonus's better stuff. Plus, I like having the wired remote, because I can drag that around on top of the FIVE and be able to switch monitoring chains super-easily from anywhere on that 54-frame mo'fo.
Extravagant for a smaller setup...maybe. But at the same time, having it "future-proofs" your rig, since you can move to a much wider spectrum of mixers by having the CS+ handle the monitoring "heavy lifting", and that would then let you put together a really smokin' monitor setup that you can keep intact across numerous desk swaps/upgrades.
Thanks Lugia for link, i check subrack and I'll take that into consideration as alternative to wood-box.
-- Glitched0xff
Smart move. If you make sure to get the rack ears, you could then mount the subracks in a suitable road case, which not only makes the rig portable, it also gives it a somewhat smashproof housing to live in. Just remember, typical Eurorack is in 3U multiples, so you're looking at 6U, 9U, 10U (allows a power conditioner on top + 3 x 3U), 12U, or 16U (similar to the 10U but with five 3U subracks). And for futureproofing, having these in an easily-configurable road case means that you can cover up non-used sections of the case with some 3U blanks, then remove these as funding allows for the inevitable Eurocrack M0AR!!!
Yep...I also use a combo of on-desk monitor switching AND an outboard (Presonus Central Station +). This lets me swap from a monitor bus to the actual stereo mixbus (or others) if something seems off, and then the Presonus handles the switching between the Altecs, the KRKs, and the TADs, plus it handles the "B-feed" to the tc Clarity-M. This might seem like overkill, but after 40+ years of playing with these toys, I'm a picky SOB.
Or why even bother with the usual racks? I was doing a bit of poking around on nVent/Schroff's website last night, and you can slap together a bespoke 84 hp rackmountable for next to dirt. Granted, this trick requires a little knowledge of how subrack assemblies are outfitted and assembled, but just look at that as "knowledge gained"...for a big discount, too!
Note that you can go as basic...or complex...as you like. 3U or 6U, the ability to add tile rows (with a little ingenuity), bespoke depths, bespoke busboard placement, and so forth. No, not as easy as just snagging something like...hmm...this: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/doepfer-a-100g6-6u.html ...but at the same time, you should remember that what you're looking at there IS what's at Schroff's site also. But it doesn't cost $530.
Was it actually in the module box, or was it something the retailer threw in? Sweetwater has long had a tradition of enclosing penny candy with their orders, and an order I got from Perfect Circuit back in the days before the plague also had that.
Though I agree that the setup (of what I suggested/wrote) has a high potential for confusion, since there is no risk of damage, then meanwhile using that and then take my time to consider what's the best solution for using which monitor controller shouldn't be a too bad idea?
-- GarfieldModular
Definitely, as long as there's no damage potential. My big concern about "confusion" actually has more to do with workflow than just being perplexed. When you have to add an extra step...also made of more incremental steps...to your workflow, you incrementally increase the potential for distraction from the task at hand. Or at least, that seems to happen more often than not. One of the things I picked up around Nashville was that the engineer always needs to be ready with the best yet most minimal "fix" for things, so that mindset's kinda ingrained into MY workflow. YMMV, of course...
This thing allows you to have two stereo inputs and two stereo outputs. The latter will be useful if you get a set of "tracking monitors" or "mix checks". But the dual input scheme fits perfectly here, AND it's more than likely that this is what Mackie intended this $70 widget for.
One other "one stop shop" utility that I recommend for certain smaller builds: SSF's Tool-Box. In 6 hp, you get a halfwave rectifier for waveshaping, an adder, a comparator, a diode OR, an inverter, and a 2-1 electronic switch, all for $149. For those building a specific, targeted synth, it might not be quite the thing, but anyone building a multi-purpose modular can get plenty of mileage out of something like that.
Yeah...the "bad" parts with Uli are pretty well known. But the other point is well taken. When you move an instrument's production from a pre-automation process of board-stuffers and solderers on a manual production line to the automated board fabs we have these days, it WILL kick the price down considerably and make that version much easier to obtain. In that aspect, Uli's managed to combine music gear manufacturing with the manufacturing methods we're accustomed to for everyday consumer electronics and nail a "win".
And it's also worth noting that, with the exception of two certain modules (which gets back to "bad Uli"...but I digress), Behringer is limiting its Eurorack output to clone reissues of "unobtainium"...which, actually, is pretty commendable. He does "get" what musicians want and need...it's just that his methods and ethics in giving everyone that which need some (a lot!) of work.
Also, don't neglect the smaller sequencers. A few companies (Xaoc and Ladik come to mind) offer 4-step sequencers...and at first, that might seem really underfeatured. But if you use something like a clock counter (this sort of thing: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/emw-pulse-counter) to step it, you can then sequence your harmonic patterns by using the 4-banger to shift the other sequencer(s) global pitch CV. So, those are just PERFECT for stepping through typical chord changes, especially where you only have 3-4 chords in the track.
OK, normally I would object to Uli lifting designs. But NOT HERE. My sole question is "does this really work?" If it does, B.'s managed to put out something for cheap here that pretty much NO ONE could get into for less than a grand! And sure, there's a couple of digitally-based designs that come in in the $400-ish range, but no analog ones anywhere near there...until this. You could even afford TWO for full stereo operation!
If you're wondering why this is a big deal...this isn't a "pitch shifter". Those are invariably digital devices that take an entire sound and move it up or down in pitch. But this is an ANALOG device that doesn't shift the entire sound, it takes a similar tack to a ring modulator and raises/lowers all sonic content by adding or subtracting the "carrier" frequency from the "source". So if you have a sound on a fundamental frequency of, say, 200 Hz and it's got a pretty typical set of partials at the first few harmonics, frequency shifting raises/lowers the fundamental by...well, let's say 100 Hz here. And then the harmonics ALSO shift by that same 100 Hz.
So? OK...let's look at what's going on here arithmetically:
Math-wise, this doesn't look all that different. But remember: pitch scales in a LOGARITHMIC relationship, as do the harmonics. Here's what's REALLY supposed to happen to a 300 Hz signal:
So if you look back at the shifted version, you'll notice that NONE of the harmonics are following their normal overtone relationships. This results in some extraordinarily wild FM-ish clangers, bizarre modulations, and so on. Ring mod, but on a LOT of 'roids, and you can either shift up OR down...not both at the same time like a typical ring mod does. These devices are, accordingly, rather hard to engineer, which is why frequency shifters are normally very spendy things that not everyone's had the pleasure of encountering. But....well, here we are! And if Uli is to be believed (yeah, a stretch, I know), ANYONE can afford one of these now. Truly wild times we're in...
Perhaps indeed a transformer that separates the power from the power supply is the best solution if you have unbalanced power, isn't it?
Yep...that's the only way TO obtain balanced power from unbalanced mains, in fact. As opposed to power supplies, there's no balanced power solution that doesn't involve a huge transformer of some sort.
Do you know by any chance if the power is unbalanced in Canada too?
-- GarfieldModular
It is...it's worth noting, in fact, that part of Canada's grid interconnects with the NE USA's in the east, and there's other interconnections further west along the border. When we had a severe geomagnetic event about 20-ish years back, the multistate power failure that resulted started in Quebec from the storm overloading their transmission lines with inductive currents.
Another nice feature of the Filter-8 is that you can also use it as a quadrature generator. This comes in handy for autopanning functions, phase shift (the Filter-8 also makes a good filter core for phase shifting!), "training" modulation, and the like.
Well, when I was running balanced power in the studio many years ago, the principle that we use here for that is to have a balancing transformer divide the "hot" leg into two legs of half-voltage with inverse phases. The equipment doesn't mind (in nearly all cases...but I know there's a few devices that don't like this) as a rule, and by doing that inversion, you wipe all of the noise that might be lurking on the AC thanks to phase cancellation. Also, the transformer helps to provide a more solid ground because there's no "neutral" for AC to sneak back onto in situations like this.
As for star grounds...they're not exactly THE mains ground line, which is what your codes refer to. Instead, this is more of a "noise ground"...it helps to kill stray induced garbage that's creeping around rackrails, gear chassis, etc. by creating a "universal ground plane" for the audio so that crud goes right to a single groundpoint that's designed to handle that garbage...this is usually a groundpoint on the mixer, which my Topaz 24 and FIVE both have. Years ago, I also had a Faraday shield under the floor of the studio that also connected to the mixer ground to catch e-smog creeping up from lower floors, and that was a very effective countermeasure at that time.
Worked out a few things...
OK...first up, the large amount of Blinds modules didn't seem to be all that sensible. The only real place you'd want polarization would be for the modulation section (inverse audio doesn't sound different, but inverted modulation signals are VERY useful), and in that case, I opted for a Frap 321 for the mix/invert/offset/etc functions (does most everything the Samara + Blinds does, and a few other things) there to save hp and then paired that with another 6 hp module, Happy Nerding's 3xVCA, which gives you three linear VCAs for modulation level control. But anyway...
Everything was relocated to groupings to make patching faster and more intuitive. The VCO group, VCFs, supporting modules, and the Beads/Data Bender went on the top row, with a left-to-right signal flow. Middle row is all of your modulation, and as noted, I made some changes there for the modulation processing. I was also able to add the Quadrax's Qx expander and a Zadar + Nin by removing excess Blinds. At the end, you have your fixed-level mixing/splitting (Links) and VCAs for the mixer (ALL of it...hence the Vnicvsal VCA, which gives you a VCA for each mixer input).
The bottom row has the various control functions, to which I added a dual clock delay for some flam/offset behavior out of your clocking, and a Varigate 4+ so that your Voltage Block now has some extra functions, including sixteen memory slots for Voltage Block sequences. And the last change is that little white bit on the left end of the middle, which is a Konstant Labs PWRchekr, which keeps tabs on your DC rail health with visual problem indicators.
Basically, the module choices were pretty spot-on, save for the excess of Blinds and the excess buffered mults. And by tossing the superfluous stuff, I managed to mash in a lot of extra functionality that was missing...such as four more EGs, VCAs for the entire Listen Four ins, and straightening out the modulation modifiers. I wasn't 100% satisfied with how the bottom row laid out, but for now, it's not set up particularly badly.
Multiple sequencers are a kick and a half! My AE has several...three CV sequencers as well as a couple of trigger sequencer devices.
The big key to REALLY making multiple sequencers skip-n-jump is to dive into the world of clock modulators and Boolean logic. By having Boolean logic modules, you can take two gates and combine them in various ways to create different gate signals altogether. Pulse dividers/multipliers allow mathematical clock changes. Trigger sequencers such as Euclideans can add elements of stochastics to this, as can pulse skippers. And pulse delays can shift the overlaps between different gate signals, which then gives the Boolean gates even MORE to gnaw on. There's even a clock gen (from Evaton) that employs logic between two different clock generators to make the clocking more complex, too. And then you can ALSO use modules such as comparators and discriminators to "read" modulation signals and generate gate pulses from them as well. Lastly, pulse integrators (also known as "diode ORs") allow you to "mix" gates to create composite signals from those. And so on...LOTS of "so on", in fact...
Actually, this results from house electrics already. When you have a typical unbalanced AC line, you get a "hot", "neutral" and "ground", and those go back to the main breaker panel. What the noise sounds like is that the modular is trying to ground itself to a different circuit, ground-wise. So what's going on is that the other AC circuit is flowing THROUGH the modular and getting into the audio, probably through it being connected to a mixer, etc that's on a different circuit than it is, which allows the AC into the audio.
This doesn't happen much in Europe, because European (and a lot of other) power systems provide BALANCED power. There's no "neutral", but instead you have two legs at 1/2 of the total mains voltage that are referenced to ground, which gives you the proper 230V for the device in question. But with OUR goofy power (and anywhere else there's unbalanced AC), that "neutral" and the associated ground line can provide a path for groundloops if you don't have either isolation to kill the loop or don't have a proper star ground. Sure, you can have balanced AC in the USA as well...but it's on YOU to put in the balancing toroids (imagine a 40 lb bundt cake...now imagine several of them, one per circuit). Very messy, expensive, and labor-intensive.
