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I'd go for a full size clone if I were you.. much better ergonomics, plaits is small enough already, & you get full size knobs which are better for tuning etc...
maybe a Pams Pro would tick all your boxes, envelopes and synced modulation? as well as many other functions...
does the 03 sequencer output 1v/oct? idk...
take a look at my signature & spend some time thinking about it... especially the formula...
for utilities it's almost impossible to go wrong with a matrix mixer! and a quad cascading vca (veils clone for instance)
& you'll almost definitely want to improve your mixing from a 2hp mixer! thats much better
how are you mixing the rolland boutiques & the modules?
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
(...) 'Novation's Bass Station filter was designed by Chris Huggett of Wasp and Oscar fame. Here, it's known as 'Classic', a state-variable creation switchable between 12dB and 24dB slopes. Fresh for the BS2, a further switch offers low-, band- and high-pass modes, greatly extending the filter's usefulness. In all modes, you're quickly aware of the edgy but sparkly maximum resonance, and also that it takes just a smidgen of overdrive to squash any fear of lack of balls. Winding the overdrive higher turns the Classic filter into a pleasantly mashed-up monster. It follows that varying combinations of cutoff frequency, resonance and overdrive yield everything from humongous bass to sound effects and shrieks that will vibrate your granny's teeth out, assuming you're heartless enough to expose her to them. Warm, fluffy and Moogy it isn't.
If this were the full story of the filter I'd be content, but it isn't. There's a second filter on board; a diode ladder design called Acid. This 24dB fat boy operates in low-pass mode only and is noticeably darker than the Classic. Its resonance is wetter and smoother, too. I became an instant convert. As both filters react very differently to high levels of overdrive and resonance, you occasionally get the not-unpleasant feeling that two synths are occupying the same space' (...)
Just an update for anyone that may stumble across this in the future. I ultimately decided to purchase the new AJH Triple Cross. Three DC-coupled VCAs/crossfaders/panners. I already use a lot of AJH stuff (it's all awesome) and the Triple Cross is geared towards the uses that I had in mind for adding some extra VCAs.
I've recently built the combo of TB-O and TB-EFA for some proper 303 action which sound great and quite a bit different to my HNVCF's 18db, the HN is good but the TB-EFA is gnarly and bubbling https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ge0sync-synth-tb-efa
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
I've got a few Roland boutiques that i like a lot, but would like to extend yheor usage with a modular setup. What i have now is an SH-01A, TR-06 and TB-03. For modules i own a Qu-Bit Wave, 2hp Mix, ALM SBG and an Intellijel Plog. Im thinking of getting a Plaits (probably the Knit), but not sure what else ill need / want beyind that. I expect to use the sequencers from the 06 and 03, but suspect I'll need some envelopes and sequencable modulation sources. I also like the Plog for deriving other triggers/gates from the boutiques.
Any suggestions on what might fill out a setup to complement what ive currently got? I'm definitely just dipping my yoes into the modular world and already feel like i should have done more research, so any help is appreciated.
My recommendation is to start with a few Doepfer modules as they are affordable, sound great and easy to learn. Make Noise stuff is great and I have tons of it but the icons and graphics are confusing to a beginner and learning basics of modulation, how VCAs and filters work is a lot already if new to modular synthesis.
This might be a case where semi-modular is the better option, especially if budget and size are of primary concern. What about the Moog DFAM? It's not going to give you all of the BIA sounds, but does a lot that BIA doesn't. More hands-on, still within the Moog ecosystem since you enjoy Mavis, and it's a techno beast. You could always add a small-ish modulation/effects rack to compliment the Moogs...
Something to consider.
my tesseract tex-mix also has jacks at the top... at least on the channels modules...
I think one of the major issues, to me, is that a lot of companies that are established and then try to get into the eurorack market, take a look at modules that exist, and based on what's out there, realise there's nothing wrong with doing whatever they feel like... and because they have't got a lot of modular experience, or biggish modulars themselves, don't think about a lot of simple design issues... whereas an experienced modular synthesist, with a fairl big rack would have gone... no I don't like the jack placement, or you need to do this, because... maybe that happened & maybe they just didn't listen...
b-company could have made their modules slightly better (nuts on jacks etc) and marketed under another of their brands (tc electronic for example) & modernised modules slightly to be more easily compatible with euroracl (v-trigger/s-trigger) and just cloned open source modules - without trying to add value, poorly - instead of ripping off intellijel and make noise modules and moog semis - that are still in production - they'd have got more respect from a lot of us if they'd done that...
strymon modules could do with more modulation inputs... but that may be related to the sharc chip... although I'm not sure that's the case - given the number of knobs and you caan just add a jack to the pot in hardware... so possibly down to how much space they would have taken...
z vex could have probably got away adding some extra modulation inputs and used their chinese fab (the one that makes their vexter range) - as they seem reliable and have been made for years - and made cheaper modules that would have sold enough to still warrant making them...
I think z.vex modules were made by malekko, or another known manufacturer (I don't think it was darkspace/wmd though), so maybe it was a case of not listening, or just wanting to get something out quickly.. idk...
there was also waldorf... their modules were, iirc, too big for the limited functionality...
so... other companies that want to get into the eurorack business, from a related existing business, take heed... spend some money on a proper consultant... and pay them enough that it's worth actually listening to them...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
...SO WHY ARE THE JACKS AT THE BOTTOM??? WHO MIXES AT THE TOP OF THEIR RACK LMAO??
If this makes it out of concept they better fix the layout seriously
-- maincy
You’re right, it’s a shame. But a lot of modules have this configuration, including some of the most acclaimed! This is an error especially when there is a need for frequent manipulations such as with mixers, controllers, sequencers.
Fortunately there are modules that ‘save the honour’ :) Performance Mixer, Hexmix, Tetrapad, Planar2, A-174-4, Pressure Points, René, Stochastic Inspiration Generator, Eloquencer, Voltage Block, etc.
Otherwise, the right angle patch cables can facilitate accessibility...
*Edit - Just saw that Jim posted at the same time I did. I agree with all of Jim's thoughts regarding small racks.
hahahahaha.... great minds etc....
I agree with all of this. You will want and need a bigger case before you know it. To get the most out of any module, you will find the need for supporting modules. Supporting modules take up space. Imagine all of the functions in a fixed architecture synth or groovebox and then realize that you will need a lot of those functions, sometimes multiple copies of each function. Bigger case than you think you need is pretty much rule #1 in modular land.
I'd go so far as to say that in lots of ways the supporting modules, modulation sources and utilities, are actually the most important modules - as they are how you gain control over the other modules!!!
Tweaking by hand is fun, but you only have two hands. BIA will require about six hands to get interesting grooves happening.
and lightening fast reactions - so you can change from kick to snare to whatever, on each beat - exhausting just thinking about it!!!!
I used the Voltage Block to get cool stuff happening when I had BIA. That's 8 lanes of sequenced modulation in 20hp, not to mention a gate source...
exactly!
How will you be mixing? Do you want to automate volume and panning? Mixers, VCAs, and more modulation sources can help with this.
and again... exactly!
Unfortunately, minimal systems usually offer minimal results. The modular world will quickly eat up a lot of space and your bank account, so make sure you understand each part of what you're getting into. What is it that a tiny incomplete eurorack is offering that a groovebox with sequencer or fixed architecture synth doesn't offer?
Have fun and good luck!
-- farkas
in other words: not to put you off, but much more research, thought and budget is almost definitely required before considering this pusuit!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
To begin with, you will need some modulation sources. BIA needs a lot of modulation to shine. You could replace Steppy (it only generates triggers) with a NE Mimetic digitalis type sequencer (triggers and CV), which fits very well with BIA https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-engineering-mimetic-digitalis-black
Pam's also gives you many trigger/modulation options. https://www.modulargrid.net/e/alm-busy-circuits-alm017-pamela-s-new-workout.
With the limited space you have, and given that the two voices are "complete" in themselves, perhaps you would not need a filter, but I would add some effects module (delay / reverb) and the leftover space some VCA, mixer for CV ....but I would definitely start with a bigger case.
-- ferranadsr
I agree with all of this. You will want and need a bigger case before you know it. To get the most out of any module, you will find the need for supporting modules. Supporting modules take up space. Imagine all of the functions in a fixed architecture synth or groovebox and then realize that you will need a lot of those functions, sometimes multiple copies of each function. Bigger case than you think you need is pretty much rule #1 in modular land.
Tweaking by hand is fun, but you only have two hands. BIA will require about six hands to get interesting grooves happening. I used the Voltage Block to get cool stuff happening when I had BIA. That's 8 lanes of sequenced modulation in 20hp, not to mention a gate source...
How will you be mixing? Do you want to automate volume and panning? Mixers, VCAs, and more modulation sources can help with this.
Unfortunately, minimal systems usually offer minimal results. The modular world will quickly eat up a lot of space and your bank account, so make sure you understand each part of what you're getting into. What is it that a tiny incomplete eurorack is offering that a groovebox with sequencer or fixed architecture synth doesn't offer?
Have fun and good luck!
*Edit - Just saw that Jim posted at the same time I did. I agree with all of Jim's thoughts regarding small racks.
I recently bought a MOOG Mavis to test the eurorrack waters and got inspired to take the plunge. Given my love for this thing, I'm planning to build the rest of my system around it, but within some serious constraints. I want this to be a fairly minimal system for financial and simplicity reasons, so I'm planning to get a 4u palette case (not negotiable)
I think this is utter folly, why? - see below - but if you absolutely must only have 4u - then get the biggest version there is - the 104hp... personally I'd suggest bigger, still... you will need it eventually and eventually is often much sooner than you think... remember, there is absolutely no need whatsover to fill a case - there are always blank panels and there are always cereal boxes (or similar) that can substitute for blank panels... the tiny cases are great for influencers to showcase individual modules with limited patching options and they're great as satellite, mission specific cases - sequencer, control surface etc, but as main synth cases - not so much...
Considering the constraints, I've included a pedal i/o to connect it with what will most likely be a MOOD effects pedal for some thicc reverb and looping potential. https://www.chasebliss.com/mood-mkii I've also secured a deal for a BIA and Noise Tools 1U from Craig's. Figured Steppy is a must-have for this system too, so the whole bottom rack is kind of locked in (ignoring the Mavis probably vacating).
if you wan BIA to do all your percussion for you - ie you want to use it as a percussion factory - I seriously recommend a jasmine and olive traffic module - it will allow you to program changes in the sounds of BIA...
I'm not convinced steppy is the going to do exactly what you want - please describe exactly what you envisage doing with steppy... it generates triggers - 4 of them, with only 2 places to send them...
BIA - I don't own one, but just from looking at it I can tell, that it massively benefits from modulation, something you don't have a lot of (other than some random from noise tools)... and modulation sources benefit from attenuation, attenuversion/offset... that you don't have any of if you are using the duatt as a mixer, which you will be - as you don't have any other mixer in the rack...
the effect pedal is stereo, yet you can only send/return a mono signal... is this a constraint you find acceptable? if not the you need a different interface and a way to take your mono sound sources and place them in the stereo field...
I've never built a system before and I still don't understand a lot of the utility of different components utilities like VCAs, although I hear they're pretty hot. That being said, I'm really looking for feedback about how this system could work as designed, what could/should be changed, and what the longer term potential is with whatever components that might eventually backfill the MOOG's 44hp. Ideally though, I'd like to create some music like I described with the Mavis in place for now, but please let me know if that's unrealistic. Thank you!
-- natural_causes
Seriously I'd do some research on the fundamentals of synthesis before commiting any money... ie what's a VCA, what's a filter, what's a wavefolder etc etc - the pinned topics at the top of the moduwiggler 1u& 3u subforum are a very good place to start...
NOW The Hard Part:
I don't think that you're going to be able to achieve what you want from these modules... I'm assuming that you're going to want to use the BIA as a one stop percussion factory... ok no problem - as long as you have something to change the 'program' on BIA in a purposeful way... but you haven't - see my recommendation of the Traffic module above (this is effectively what it's designed for - you can program in voltage changes that allow you to get repeatable prgoram changes on modules that can benefit from it BIA and Plaits, for instance)...
your mixing solution is poor... how are you going to mix the outputs of the BIA, the Mavis AND the pedal return... what are you going to send to the pedal, just the Mavis? just the BIA? and how are you going to listen? just on headphones or a 'laptop expansion speaker'? are you happy with mono only? see above for - modulation that needs attenuating...
Some further wisdom - from years of experience with modulars - buy a much bigger case than you think you'll need to start with... it will save you money in the long run... larger cases are cheaper per hp than tiny cases... you will get GAS & you will need it... not only this, but just taking the example of the Traffic module... there are modules you think you want and there are modules that you haven't even started to think about that you will need in order to get the most out of the modules you think you want... and to some extent the modules you want can end up being miserable without the ones you need...
take a look at my signature... think about it, think about it deeply... it's years of experience condensed into a few words... especially the formula... which is a quick guide to how to get the most versatility in patching, from the least cash...
ignore the case size for now and spend some time working out what you think you'll want (ie more than just a single voice and a percussion factory) in say a years, maybe twos, time and what you will need in order to actually get the modules to work together & then get that sanity checked... & then find and buy - or build the case on that including at least 20-30% expansion room (you will need it - estimate power consumption for unfilled space at 10mA per rail per hp) and then allow 25-30% for overhead - to work out how much power you actually need... and then get a case that fulfills those needs - hp and power...
in other words build the case around the modules that you think you will want and those that you will need in order to support them - don't try cramming modules into a tiny case - ergonomics will be shit and/or functionality will be poor - leading to a miserable experience... which can only be remedied by either spending money or selling up!
a very large proportion of people who ignore this advice buy another, bigger case within 6-12 months of buying their 1st case...
this is exactly what I did... I started with a tiny case (6u/72hp) & within 6 months it was full so I bought another bigger case, and then a few months later I started building a case - it was shoddy and consisted of planks of wood held together by blank panels and modules, but it worked - & I got better at building cases... years later I have over 1800hp of cases, mostly filled... but if I'd bought the bigger case to start with I think there's a good chance I wouldn't have gone past that - except for the discovery of video modules - which is another story entirely
Now I'm not suggesting that you spend your life savings in one go - I'm suggesting that you think ahead a bit, probably slightly. further ahead than next week or next month though... if you desperately want a BIA buy it now... they were recently discontinued, due to the chips used in them being end of lifed...
but do realise that in starting this you are probably going to be commiting a large portion of your disposable income for years to come to this - ie your current methods of entertainment: beer, drugs, transvestite hookers, cult memberships (whatever, I don't care & neither should you - they're only examples) will take a backseat... that 100 (insert local currency) is a module, not n beers, for example!!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Hi,
To begin with, you will need some modulation sources. BIA needs a lot of modulation to shine. You could replace Steppy (it only generates triggers) with a NE Mimetic digitalis type sequencer (triggers and CV), which fits very well with BIA https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-engineering-mimetic-digitalis-black
Pam's also gives you many trigger/modulation options. https://www.modulargrid.net/e/alm-busy-circuits-alm017-pamela-s-new-workout.
With the limited space you have, and given that the two voices are "complete" in themselves, perhaps you would not need a filter, but I would add some effects module (delay / reverb) and the leftover space some VCA, mixer for CV ....but I would definitely start with a bigger case.
I want to make crushing, dissonant, and choatic sounds to dance to in a rack designed for live performances on somewhat of a budget. Think Tim Hecker, Fuck Buttons, The Knife, Wolf Eyes.
I recently bought a MOOG Mavis to test the eurorrack waters and got inspired to take the plunge. Given my love for this thing, I'm planning to build the rest of my system around it, but within some serious constraints. I want this to be a fairly minimal system for financial and simplicity reasons, so I'm planning to get a 4u palette case (not negotiable) within which the Mavis will initially sit. I will probably remove the Mavis down the line to make space for other modules and just patch it back into the rack from the side, but this is where I'd like it to initially be.
Considering the constraints, I've included a pedal i/o to connect it with what will most likely be a MOOD effects pedal for some thicc reverb and looping potential. https://www.chasebliss.com/mood-mkii I've also secured a deal for a BIA and Noise Tools 1U from Craig's. Figured Steppy is a must-have for this system too, so the whole bottom rack is kind of locked in (ignoring the Mavis probably vacating).
I've never built a system before and I still don't understand a lot of the utility of different components utilities like VCAs, although I hear they're pretty hot. That being said, I'm really looking for feedback about how this system could work as designed, what could/should be changed, and what the longer term potential is with whatever components that might eventually backfill the MOOG's 44hp. Ideally though, I'd like to create some music like I described with the Mavis in place for now, but please let me know if that's unrealistic. Thank you!
Yeah, I have VCV rack just never got around to actually using it with hardware... Clicking with mouse is what I'm trying to reduce.
-- ratman77531
I hear that... I'm also trying to find my own way to reduce the computer as much as possible. I just didn't want to start suggesting buying more modules when you're already set up for the free stuff.
But if already have GAS, then you really can't go wrong with more VCAs, and a utilities "swiss army knife" type module. I really meshed with uOrnaments and Crime running Hemispheres - it provides some very interesting functions and has both a shift register and a quantizer, wonderful for "psychodelic-like weird" stuff, and only 8 hp. With the remainder you could do something like Happy Nerding's 3xVCA (6hp), or maybe even a 2hp dual VCA leaving room for a dual LPG for plucky sounds and variety. There's really a number of ways to use the extra hp depending on your goals, but I think VCAs and utilities are what you should focus on.
I recently released a matrix mixer; not as small as some of the others you mention, I'm afraid, though it does have built in passive mults on all ports which should help save some routing space, or splitters at least. happy-hardware.com
-- happy-hardware
Aren't there a few different filter types on the BassStation 2? You might find a small collection of inexpensive Doepfer filters would get you in the same ballpark. The A102, A103, and A124 might be good candidates. I've enjoyed every Doepfer filter I've used.
Let us know what you decide. Have fun and good luck!
So I'm running it into an 8 channel mixer. It's fine I guess. Maybe nombres to waste HP on it. Probably more the 303 going in that's the issue. That would be good as I can then invest a toy (or two) to add to the subharmonicon.
Thanks! I meant to say I'm waiting for Batumi expander to be delivered. :)
I suppose the aim is to get good at René and experiment with weird plucky/snappy arps/sequences and make some fun complement to Analog Rytm and preferably not easy to anticipate, and maybe a bit psychodelic-like weird stuff with Morphagene.
Yeah, I have VCV rack just never got around to actually using it with hardware... Clicking with mouse is what I'm trying to reduce.
Hmmm, guess I didn't see the expander... Without VCV rack or similar then you will want to consider some further utilities for the remaining 15 hp that you have. What are you aiming for with this rack? In any case, I recommend s/h (I really like After Later's SHTH, which is quite powerful in 2 hp), more vca's (happy nerding 3xVCA or a veils clone), and maybe something further swiss army knives like like Frap Tools 321 or SSF Toolbox if you can still find one.
Also, if you've already got the ES-9 and Ableton, might as well get VCV Rack, it's free afterall. It will open up a lot of potential utilities so you can see which ones you use the most.
-- HGsynth
Are you using the ES-9 to connect with VCV rack or other software? If so, this thing looks pretty beastly and you can get what's I'd say is missing virtually. However, if not, or just because you have the blank panel spaces, I could suggest the Batumi expander, which gives you access to more LFO shapes, and some other utilities or random voltage generators? Things like mutes or routers might make this more interactive and fun to play, as well.
-- HGsynth
Noted - I actually have Batumi expander in the post [as in shipping]!
ES-9 just for Ableton Live, haven't used with VCV Rack yet. It's probably an overkill but nice to be able to send CVs and record with a bunch of channels (half of which I don't really use).
I really like the filter on my Novation BassStation 2 and I was wondering what might be comparable in eurorack. I have a Hexinverter Red Dragon, SSF Stereo Dipole and WMD C4rbn. The WMD is probably closest. I feel like the BassStation sounds fatter, and the sweeps are more dynamic. Any suggestions are welcome.
Looks like a pretty sound rack to me.
-- wishbonebrewery
Agree, banjo's rule.
Are you using the ES-9 to connect with VCV rack or other software? If so, this thing looks pretty beastly and you can get what's I'd say is missing virtually. However, if not, or just because you have the blank panel spaces, I could suggest the Batumi expander, which gives you access to more LFO shapes, and some other utilities or random voltage generators? Things like mutes or routers might make this more interactive and fun to play, as well.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
I recently released a matrix mixer; not as small as some of the others you mention, I'm afraid, though it does have built in passive mults on all ports which should help save some routing space, or splitters at least. happy-hardware.com
-- happy-hardware
Thank you VERY much Jim,
I appreciate you taking the time detailing your answer to my questions.
No problrm...
Regarding utilities and your statement "it's possible you don't know what they are yet..."
You are absolutely correct on this one: I am looking at sequential switches, switches, logic etc...
It does make sense as I am well served with OSCs and modulation but your signature just stroke me (sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities :) Some of these utilities I understand and can see the need for them. Others remain a mistery but surely time will tell...
I think once you have a few sound sources, modulation sources and sound modifiers, utilities are the most cost effective way of getting more out of your modular... they exponentially increase the patching possibilities
I will most likely PM you (if that is ok by you) and ask some questions regarding others.
please feel free to do so...
Sorry for asking the stupid question about matrix mixers as I went and had a look on YT which clearly explained it :)
no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid answers...
The Doepfer one looks pretty good to me. If you have any suggestions, I will gladly read your post.
Thank you for your time, much appreciated.
Best,
Olivier
-- Loersatz
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Hey folks,
I had several situations I wished I could simply send a picture of a real existing module in my rack at home or a soundfile to somebody else here on modulargrid via a messenger service like on Facebook and many other web sites. This would make communication within an ongoing trade much easier and I would not need to use sombody elses e-mail adress or send mine to receive more infos about a module. I do not know how hard it is to implement this into this site but maybe something worth to consider.
Cheers
That all makes sense and does make a good argument for a professionally designed and self contained system to start with.
The Make Noise Tape & Microsound Music Machine is a great foundation. You'll find resources on patching the system, along with many resources for patching Maths alone
Adding Pam's and Midi and you've got everything you need for clocked modulations and synchronization with your DAW
You can always expand the system when you're ready
-- 33PO
Thanks, appreciate the input. I have watched every TMMM system video I could lay my hands on, most of them from Make Noise themselves. They do seem to care a lot about their community as well, from what I've seen, which will also be useful down the line if questions arise.
Lastly, would you say it's better, in this scenario, to have that spare 2HP devoted to a mult or to a VCA? My readings suggest that it's definitely VCA, but that brings into question why the original system would've shipped with a mult and NOT more VCA's. Dunno, both are useful.
I must say, I'm not crazy about the idea of small form factor VCA's, but I suspect it might be a loooong while before I can upgrade this case to something with space to accommodate a larger VCA. I guess I could use it without either and see which I want most?
This is an awesome unit! Even better than the VCF-Q.
Another Serge resonant filter from Random Source. Not just an interpretation but licensed from Serge to be as authentic as possible.
VERY important to read the notes in the build guide and notes in the list of materials, there are components included that you usually will not install though you have the option to, read carefully.
Other than that, the build is straightforward.
HIGHLY recommended!
That all makes sense and does make a good argument for a professionally designed and self contained system to start with.
The Make Noise Tape & Microsound Music Machine is a great foundation. You'll find resources on patching the system, along with many resources for patching Maths alone
Adding Pam's and Midi and you've got everything you need for clocked modulations and synchronization with your DAW
You can always expand the system when you're ready
Unobtanium BLACK MATHS is a huge benefit to the OEM Make Noise Tape and Microsound Music Machine. Add Pam's + a midi interface and you've got a super powerful (and beautiful) instrument for found sound
33PO
Thanks, I will check it out for sure.
IMO there are alternate choices to the included Make Noise modules that would have more utility, but the Make Noise system is very well designed as-is.
33PO
Indeed, every time I open up a video there’s another module that looks interesting. You can get lost for years just reading up on this stuff. My objective is to start as soon as possible and that MN system certainly seems well specified and flexible for what it is. Also it is specifically geared towards the sampling and found sound stuff, which I love doing. Morphagene, as I’ve found out, is incredibly flexible and if you’re patient enough to prepare the correct reels for it, I think you can accomplish many interesting things with just it alone.
If I were to home-brew a similar system I'd make different choices starting with a Tiptop Mantis case:
Include Pam's
Marbles over Woggle
Stages over Maths
Include MISO & Veils
Nebulae v2 over Morphagene
Ikari over Qpas
Happy Nerding FX Aid Pro over Mimeophon
Include BitBox Micro (or Squid Salmple, or Assimil8or)
Include Befaco Instrument Interface v2
Include Befaco Out v3
33PO
Thanks, I am not familiar with many of those, but will look into it.
IMO this would be an awesome foundation for experimentation that can be built upon to taste. Then I'd add an ES9 to have a direct audio interface in the rack and VCV for a hybrid workflow. Then I'd start adding sequencers like Rene and more utilities like a matrix mixer
33PO
The Expert Sleepers stuff also comes up quite a lot. Especially with the proprietary software they have to route signals around your DAW and to your modular rig. This, I think, will have to wait until I have some kind of handle on the MN system (or similar), should I go ahead with it.
It's all a very personalized experience and what works well for me may be a nightmare for you, but there are some tried a true rules that are repeated over and over again
This is to a degree why, as a start, I am sticking to popular modules and well documented module manufacturers since there’s varying degrees of users with content out there.
Get a bigger case than you think you need and start slow to avoid sticker shock and dissapointment. Expect to swap out modules of similar function to fit your preferences
-- 33PO
As much as this is possibly a reality, I am a bit worried with swapping around modules. As I mentioned in my opening post, there’s a very small modular community here in South Africa. You cannot, as far as I'm aware, buy a single module from any of our audio suppliers (well, except Behringer), no one has them, probably due to cost/supply/demand. There used to be a modular shop here in Cape Town, but they've closed down I believe. As such I think it will be more difficult for me to shift modules that don’t accommodate with me, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it.
you said it (the idea of a single manufacturer case being silly) & there are a few advantages - but I think the disadvantages outweigh them... part of having a modular is that it's your custom instrument - single manufacturer modulars in some way dilutes this, imo... yes you can patch it how you want and it includes whichever modules you want, but you're still sticking to a single manufacturers design philosophy... not necessarily a bad thing, but, well, not necessarily the best approach...
JimHowell1970
Yes, I am beginning to realise this more and more. In the overarching larger rack there are a multitude of different manufacturers, I was more referring to the Tape and Microsound Machine as a whole, but I’ve abandoned the idea of using only one manufacturer entirely.
re Pams menu diving... it's probably the least menu-divey menu I've ever used... select which channel you want to edit, select menu, select parameter, change parameter, done... and remember that once set up you can save it as a preset and reload it... I find this much easier to deal with than remembering button press combinations (Tempi) and Pams is much more powerful in a lot of ways than Tempi... not just triggers/gates, but also modulation, envelopes, quantized stepped random, etc etc...
JimHowell1970
I have watched extensive series on Pam’s Pro, and it’s an amazing piece of technology. I have pretty much completely abandoned the idea of using Tempi because Pam’s Pro is so much more flexible, not just as a clock, but modulation source, sequencer, etc.
you can use a midi->cv module, or a device with cv outputs... it's up to you...
mutant brain is a multi-channel cv->midi module...
cv.ocd is the exact same thing in an external unit...
JimHowell1970
Thanks, I have seen mention of the Mutant Brain a few times, but haven't checked it out as yet.
For what it's worth, I reached out to Make Noise as well, Walker Farrell responded almost immediately. After some back and forth he also suggested a dedicated midi to cv module. As much as I like the Arturia controller, I think this will give me the most flexibility within my current setup and not add any additional equipment into space I really don’t have.
As such I am currently leaning towards this, more or less:
The removal of the existing MN mult leaves enough space for mmMidi, Pam’s Pro and a spare 2HP, which at this point will be used for either a blank, a 2HP VCA or a 2HP buffered mult.
it would be great to work with module dummies in the real world before starting to persist the arrangement in modulargrid.
smaller versions (maybe 1:2) of each module printed on paper or cardboard which can be arranged & moved around on a desk.
-- modular01
You can go to Modules -> My Modules and just use the Print function of your browser. I have changed the print.css so the modules will be printed in series and other info will be hidden.
Thank you VERY much Jim,
I appreciate you taking the time detailing your answer to my questions.
Indeed home (studio) usage as no dates for live as of yet.
The Doepfer case I have (https://www.thomann.de/es/doepfer_a_100p9_case_psu3.htm) is not that bad: 2000mA +12V / 1200mA -12V / 4000mA +5V. It is the PSU3 version, not the old one.
I was going to go for a Case From Lake 12U 104hp but changing the power source in it (Meanwell if I am correct) to a Doepfer one was going to cost me a lot of cash. I might just go for another Doepfer 6U 84 hp (https://www.thomann.de/es/doepfer_a_100pb_psu3.htm).
I have some hungry modules (4ms Listen4 is 200mA +12V, Sarajewo is 180mA +12V), I am getting to the point where I will have to spare power consumption. I might swap Sarajewo for Chronoblob2 and Listen4 for the Supamix from Eowave.
Regarding utilities and your statement "it's possible you don't know what they are yet..."
You are absolutely correct on this one: I am looking at sequential switches, switches, logic etc...
It does make sense as I am well served with OSCs and modulation but your signature just stroke me (sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities :) Some of these utilities I understand and can see the need for them. Others remain a mistery but surely time will tell...
I will most likely PM you (if that is ok by you) and ask some questions regarding others.
Sorry for asking the stupid question about matrix mixers as I went and had a look on YT which clearly explained it :)
The Doepfer one looks pretty good to me. If you have any suggestions, I will gladly read your post.
Is there a way to merge racks? I have a few 4 row cases that I created before getting the Unicorn account, is there a way to merge them or copy/paste rows from one case to another?
-- vuucuuv
Currently you can only copy modules one by one with c and v keyboardshortcuts between browser wondows.
Neither for live or studio really.
Having fun patching :)
so home (studio)
I hear you when you are saying 104hp...
Went from a racbrute 6U to the Doepfer 9U thinking (like everyone else I suppose) it would be cool...
the doepfer 9u always seems a little under powered...
And I totally understand when you refer to more utilities: the last modules I bought were actually oriented this way:
- Ladik A-541 for 2 mono OUT feeding Octatrack IN A and IN B
- Ladik A-410 Pan/Mix/VCA
- MI Links not so much for multing but rather as a precision adder
Next one will most likely be Ladik S-090 Dual Probability Skipper and then already thinking about Sequential Switches...
What other utilities do you have in mind?
all of them... by that I mean the ones you reach for and don't have... it's possible you don't know what they are yet... almost always more vcas, more mixers, more inverters, more attenuators, , logic, more offsets... I like a simple clock divider - not only because it can divide clocks, but also audio - /2 = -1ve, /4 = -2ve... square wave output... not something you get from Pams...
Could you also elaborate on matrix mixers if you don't mind?
Many thanks for taking the time.
L
-- Loersatz
4 inputs, 4 outputs, each output is a mix of the 4 inputs... really useful for combining copies of modulation to derive 4 more complex but related modulation sources from those input...
also useful for (amogst other things):
send differently attenuated versions of the same input to 4 different destinations
feedback - lets say you have a delay module, but it doesn't have feedback built in - patch one of the outputs of the matricx mixer to the in of the delay and another to wherever you want that delay to go to... pacth whatever you want to delay and the output of the delay into 2 of the inputs... mix to taste!
send/return - whtever you want to send into an in, the one of the outputs to the whatever you want to send to, output of that module back into one of the ins - another of the outs can now be used as the return
parallel processing - similar to above, but use 3 outputs to send to effects, use 3 inputs for the returns, depending on mixing you could have a clewan signal into each effect and then mix the original clean signal with 3 effected signals
stereouizer/manual panner - mono signal into input - 2 outputs become L & R - depending on relevant levels initial mono input is placed somewhere in the stereo field
I like mono ones, the doepfer particularly (ergonomics) - for most of these tasks... tbh I ihave 2 (non-doepfer) and could do with at least 1 more... 1 will be a doepfer and after that I may grab a stereo one (but only for audio) - I mostly use them for modulation
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Thanks for your input, much appreciated.
Neither for live or studio really.
Having fun patching :)
I hear you when you are saying 104hp...
Went from a rackbrute 6U to a Doepfer 9U thinking (like everyone else I suppose) it would be "enough"... HAHAHA!!!
And I totally understand when you refer to more utilities: the last modules I bought were actually oriented this way:
- Ladik A-541 for 2 mono OUT feeding Octatrack IN A and IN B
- Ladik A-410 Pan/Mix/VCA
- MI Links not so much for multing but rather as a precision adder
Next one will most likely be Ladik S-090 Dual Probability Skipper and then already thinking about Sequential Switches...
What other utilities do you have in mind?
Could you also elaborate on matrix mixers if you don't mind?
Many thanks for taking the time.
L
