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matrix mixer is an obvious addition - tbh I prefer the doepfer to any of the kits that will fit - the nlc one is great but both are quite big... the doepfer also has better ergonomics than most kits
use it to leverage the modulation sources you already have... copies of modulation in -> related, but different modulation out... with built in attenuation, if not attenuversion...
also a sequential switch - doepfer will be as inexpensive as any kit...
-- JimHowell1970
matrix mixer is an obvious addition - tbh I prefer the doepfer to any of the kits that will fit - the nlc one is great but both are quite big... the doepfer also has better ergonomics than most kits
use it to leverage the modulation sources you already have... copies of modulation in -> related, but different modulation out... with built in attenuation, if not attenuversion...
also a sequential switch - doepfer will be as inexpensive as any kit...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Hello, I am looking to fill some of the space in my rack to support drony and generative sounds. My rack is pretty eclectic, so maybe another VCA or more LFOs? Also, looking for modules available in kit form.
out of curiosity: what are your main sequencing modules and techniques for the melodic parts ? do you program ? or do you record sequences ?
I'm curious because I look for inspirations to sequence polyphony in modular environment.
This one is a monolithic journey through the darker side of Ransac.
Our music often doesn't fit in short clips, so I simply left it as a one hour block.
Overall smooth, it will fit for a relaxing moment (provided you enjoy noisy soundscapes though!).
part1_
starts with mother32
then lemondrop and dfam subharmonicon.
slow tempo:1 trigger to adv clock.
part2_
mix vco to noise (vco1sub1)
increase of cutoff subharmonicon
increase of lemondrop prsence
increase cutoff mother32
play with MIX.
part3_
trigger (subharmonicon) switch to clock ---- straight tempo
play with tempo knob
increase tempo till middle
increase dfam cutoff to 0, noise to 0.
increase cutoff, vcf mother
decrease rapidly the tempo back to previous and the noise around to have a clean sound.
part4_
drums ends
only subharmonicon and lemon drop
end as it started slowly fading out in drone mode kb+step+4 + lemondrop
Not going to add much but just confirm some suggestions -- having went down a similar route about a year ago. Buy the Mantis, and dont pick an Erica Synths Quad VCA. That said, if you are still in the market, I have both for sale 😉
Recently, I acquired a Mantis case and a Tangle Quartet and have absolutely no regrets. Another note on the Erica VCA... the channels don't fully close. Erica Synths stated this is normal operation. Extremely annoying to have a quiet leak of sound when you want it to shut up.
An amplifier, limiter, and drive from ThreeTom,
A very easy kit to build, mostly surface mount pre-installed.
Works great as an amp and limiter, I did not get a lot of drive out of it, or I was doing it wrong.
But a great unit to adjust a low signal into your mix, could be very handy!
part1_
starts with mother32
then lemondrop and dfam subharmonicon.
slow tempo:1 trigger to adv clock.
part2_
mix vco to noise (vco1sub1)
increase of cutoff subharmonicon
increase of lemondrop prsence
increase cutoff mother32
play with MIX.
part3_
trigger (subharmonicon) switch to clock ---- straight tempo
play with tempo knob
increase tempo till middle
increase dfam cutoff to 0, noise to 0.
increase cutoff, vcf mother
decrease rapidly the tempo back to previous and the noise around to have a clean sound.
part4_
drums ends
only subharmonicon and lemon drop
end as it started slowly fading out in drone mode kb+step+4 + lemondrop
Wow, that's already A LOT to work with. Thanks so much!
ask and you shall reveive!!! hahaha
I have yet to digest everything and will take some time to do that but a few quick thoughts/takeaways:
@Zacksname: Your comments on the VCAs have cleared things up for me a lot. Thanks! Also, I've been thinking about quantization and wasn't sure how to prioritise it. But having read your post I think workflow-wise it sounds like an interesting path for me. I'm familiar with the concept but somehow it slid in and out of my priorities over the past couple of weeks. But it makes total sense.
it's a juggling act - piorities change constantly... the simple act of adding a module, will almost definitely change the priority of the next module and so on... no plan survives contact with the enemy... and your biggest enemy is yourself!
@JimHowell70: On my way to the tattoo studio already, haha ... people are talking about your signature on the streets.
pictures (and/or field recordings), or it never happened!!! hahaha
but seriously I think a t shirt is better - cheaper and less permanent!!
I think my next step will be to take a deeper dive into utilities - and then probably start with some modulation + utilities on the Moogs before expanding the setup to be its own thing. I guess that could be a good strategy? Case wise: I agree on the Rackbrute looking hideous ... will have a closer look on TipTop Audio (but psst... I think they are looking even worse, but as you said: Who cares in the end).
you should see most of my racks... they're diy'ed out of skirting board... at least 30 years after I did any wood work - they are wonky... unfinished with sides poking out above the tops... but they do the job and in low light from the right angle they look ok(ish)...
functionality over aesthetics everyday, in every way... at least in relation to synth racks!!!
Alright, time to dig a little deeper ...
-- steben
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Wow, that's already A LOT to work with. Thanks so much!
I have yet to digest everything and will take some time to do that but a few quick thoughts/takeaways:
@Zacksname: Your comments on the VCAs have cleared things up for me a lot. Thanks! Also, I've been thinking about quantization and wasn't sure how to prioritise it. But having read your post I think workflow-wise it sounds like an interesting path for me. I'm familiar with the concept but somehow it slid in and out of my priorities over the past couple of weeks. But it makes total sense.
@JimHowell70: On my way to the tattoo studio already, haha ... people are talking about your signature on the streets. I think my next step will be to take a deeper dive into utilities - and then probably start with some modulation + utilities on the Moogs before expanding the setup to be its own thing. I guess that could be a good strategy? Case wise: I agree on the Rackbrute looking hideous ... will have a closer look on TipTop Audio (but psst... I think they are looking even worse, but as you said: Who cares in the end).
@VONDENFUNKEN: There are some very interesting recommendations module wise, thank you - and you're right, I probably don't want to bury all my budget at once but use what I already have to get a better understanding of a couple of extra modulation + utilities first. But I kinda want to set an intermediate goal for a system to figure out where I want to start - if that makes any sense. You're suggestions for a little pod for the moogs helps a lot with this.
wogglebug has wilder random as turing maschine, if this is your taste. + special feautures like audio mangling etc - its more beasty stuff
Turing maschine is more straight forward, but lovely and nice with expanders - the Pulses expander does nice gates
especialy with Benjolin V2 from After Later Audio
- you can chain it with all expanders
(I love this combo)
Benjolin V2 alone is also nice for random + it has a nice filter
+ BV2 is a nice crazy sound design tool
thoughts
I would suggest to only get a few utilities for the start and just build stuff around your moogs.
Not a 3000 Dollar investment
As you say you are more in ambient music:
for random:
Marbles could maybe suit you better instead of a turing maschine.
or clank chaos
Clank chaos has also a sequencer mode and many scales for quantization
Marbles is more accessable with just twisting knobs
check them out
Dont forget Pamelas New Pro Workout can do most of the stuff, like lfos, sequencing, random, logic, etc
combined with things like maths, lapsus os, 3xMia, Miso or 4ms mingler - Pams can archieve a lot you would search in other modules
Modulation:
Ochd + Ochd expander is good for ambient - applying slow modulations
or NLC Triple Sloths
?
If you want fo go west coast - Do you need more filters?
VCO
With my Moogs, I already have several analog VCOs. I'm considering adding something digital (like Plaits). But I really like the sound of the Make Noise STO which is why, at the moment, I'm considering both.
yeah you'll probably want a. couple of these (at least) at some point and a wavefolder and some dedicated utilities - especially as you mentioned west-coast - ie additive, not subtractive synthesis
the newly announced (but not yet available) tiptop buchla 259 might be a good option in the future...
VCF
As with VCOs, I love the Moog filters but already have four in my semi-modulars, so I don't need another basic east-coasty VCF - I think? The Make Noise QPAS seems like an interesting choice to me and I imagine it pairs well with the STO. But I'm open for suggestions.
doepfer make a number of interesting (& inexpensive) clones of classic filters - I particularly like the wasp and the SEM
Modulation
I'm considering starting with Maths and an LFO (DivKid Ochd). Should I get an additional envelope generator (e.g. Erica Synths Black VCA, Doepfer A140, or ALM Pip Slope)? Or maybe a completely different combination?Â
If you're wanting keyboard like responses - then an adsr is a good idea - maybe some more research is in order, the erica sysnths black vca is not an envelope generator, it's a consumer of envelopes!!!
I see @Zacksname recommended a matrix mixer - this is an excellent idea for taking simple modulation and making it more complex - get the doepfer - inexpensive, good ergonomics, inverters etc... this will also help with attenuation of modulation sources... often full range modulation is not what you want, attenuation = subtelty
re Maths: fantastic module one of my favourites - really comes alive when you dig in - sownload thte 'maths illustrated supplement' and work your way through it multiple times - concentrating on what, why & how maths is doing what it's doing!!! whilst it's primarily a primer for patch programming (a very west coat concept) maths, the concepts and lessons can be easily extended and applied to the whole of a modular synthesizer
VCA
I know, "You can never have too many VCAs," but how do you choose a good starting point? I've selected a Tangle (4xVCA) and an Optomix (VCAF, if that counts). For output, I’m considering an extra Pico Out. I'm a bit confused in this area (= even more than in the other areas).
optomix good! veils clone really good... continuously variable between linear & exponential response curves (primarily for cv & audio, respectively) etc...
output module: don't buy one unless you need one & if you do try a basic passive attenuator first and a vca second before thirdly succumbing to an output module... unless you desperately must have balanced outputs due to distance or need a headphone output (but better to buy an end of chain mixer with a headphone out in that case)
"you can neverr have too many vcas" - correct, especially quad cascading ones, but the same is almost true about mixers - sub-mixers (preferably with attenuversion and offset - primarily for cv), matrix mixers and a decent end of chain mixer are always good investments
Sequencing / Randomness
With the Moogs and the Keystep I feel there's a lot of sequencing sources available to me already. Therefore, I'm looking for something simple and randomy. I’m considering combining Pamela's PRO Workout with what I already have and maybe a Turing Machine or Wogglebug for some extra uncertainty? I understand they are different beasts. Currently, I'm leaning towards the Wogglebug for a start. But maybe it's dumb to include so many modules by the same maker ... ?
Pam's can do pitched random loops - etc - like a turing machine or wobblebug... except for both of those you'd almost definitely want a quantizer too... which will eat a channel of pam's... start with Pams!
instead of random - consider chaotic instead... triple sloth is great for this...
& don't forget the attenuvertting mixers that you will need to tame the resulting random/chaos either way!
Effects
As I mentioned, I currently use a pedal board for effects, so I’ve included an effects return module but no effects module. Aside from reverb and delay I can't say my music is dependent on many effects. And I've read mixed opinions on effect modules in Eurorack. Optionally I'm considering a Tiptop Audio Z5000 (alternatively an FX Aid XL). Opinions?
FX Aid PRO!!! I have both the xl and the pro... the pro is 10000 times more useable... not only because it has a screen so you can actually see what algo you are using - but it holds almost all the possible algos & includes a basic scope - pesky thing that deaf people use to see what their modulation is doing, instead of just sending it into the pitch input of a vco & using their ears!!!
Utilities
Same as above with some "swiss army knives" like Ornaments & Crime or Disting MK4. They seem useful in that they let you explore stuff you don't have yet as a distinct module. The reason I haven't included them is a) the menu diving and b) that I probably have a lot to play with and to understand already. But maybe I'm totally wrong here and some allrounders might be useful. Happy about suggestions, especially on what other useful stuff is missing.
ah, finally the really important stuff... not the overly complicated digital, menu driven abominations that are O&C & disting, but simple things like sequential switches, logic, clock dividers, mixers, mults, attenuverters etc you need these!!!
take a look at my signature - read it and then spend a considerable time thinking deeply about it and the implications of it for you rack... then think some more... then come back and thank me for distilling such wisdom into a simple formula... I recently had someone say (on another forum) they'd had it tattoed onto their body... I challenged them for pictures, which were not forth coming... I believe I may have called their bluff... but I should get t-shirts made up!!
just kidding about the O&C & disting... well sort of, they are annoying, but they're very useful to have around... especially the disting - which I have - it has to be used wisely though - favourite mode is key and replacing using it's algos with dedicated modules, is a bloody good idea...
Case
In a Rackbrute 6U, this configuration would more or less fit my budget, especially if I can get some modules used. It leaves me with only 50 - 60 ish HP for future expansions and I'm aware that's not much. But I also like it as a compact skiff for gigs and maybe use it in my band. So the reasoning is to add a bigger rack later on and keep this anyway. And I know how that sounds in the context of Eurorack ... but I’ve never been a fan of collecting gear—but let’s revisit that in five years or so. ;)
I've said it before & I'll say it again - TIPTOP MANTIS - best bang for buck starter case there is... combination of price/size/decent power supply & manufacturer reputation there is... it's the sweet spot... some people dislike it's aesthetics - but quite frankly who gives a fuck when it's covered in patch cables and you're rocking out to your bleeps n bloops????????
plus no f'ing rack wart stealing space from important modules and no irrelevant marketing branding shite - if I had one and was playing live I'd have to gaffer tape the back, lest anyone in the audience thought I was playing an arturia synth and not just encasing my modular!!! & the rackbrute is as fugly as I sincerely hope both Uli b-company & the guy who runs Synthrotek's wive's are...
plus it's underpowered if you use too many digital modules... don't do this!!! either of them - seriously leave at least 25-30% headroom on all power rails so as not to oexperience disappointment when your modular won't start up properly - inrush is a thing, believe me... or use too many digital modules... you need utilities too, see both above and below!!!
and... breathe...
hope this helped!!!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
One thing worth considering here is a) a matrix mixer and b) some kind of switch setup like the Doepfer A-182-2. They'll help you facilitate changes in your setup without having to do a lot of repatching (I like repatching, but it ian't always convenient).
A Pip Slope or other small and simple envelope generator is not a bad idea - Maths is good for envelopes, but if you have the space it's nice to delegate such mundane duties to other modules. You can also take the envelopes from the Mother-32 and use them for other stuff as well.
As for VCAs, you're fortunate here in that the Moog synths, the QPAS, and the Plaits all have their own built-in VCAs, meaning that the practical aspect of them isn't a huge deal here. The STO doesn't, but that's fine - you can always find one for it out of what's already here, or you can even use it as an audio rate modulation source to get different FM sounds with your other oscillators.
The Optomix is not just a VCA but a low pass gate, so it combines VCA and subtle low pass filtering to give audio a specific character based on how natural acoustic sounds work (as they get louder, they get brighter). If you wanted to explore this in a cheaper form, some of the best cheap small modules available are the Takaab 2LPG passive low pass gates, one of the only 2hp modules that works fine aside from mults. Not only are they great for audio and CV, but they have a switch so you can control how much filtering they do and use them as a plain VCA if needed. However, the Optomix is a nice module with nice knobs, so if you want to throw money at this particular concept it's a good choice.
With what you have here, I'd mainly be thinking about VCAs for modulation (you can't go wrong with a Doepfer 130-8) as well as some kind of attenuverter/offset module like the Tiptop Miso, Frap Tools 321, or Happy Nerding 3x MIA. If you're not sure what you want from all these different VCA/attenuverter options, a good choice might be an After Later Audio Cloaks or an Intellijel Quad VCA, because they have lots of options to use them as variations of all these things so you can figure out what makes the most sense (switching between unipolar and bipolar, switching between linear and exponential, etc). While the Tangle Quartet is good (people say it is very high quality), it may also be worth looking into one that switches between linear and exponential, because it's hard to get a feel for why that matters based on description alone. It's up to you.
Basically, all of this seems fine to me in terms of basic building blocks, but now you need to think about quality of life modules to make this stuff as easy to use as possible.
How do you imagine all these extra parts being sequenced/played? A Keystep 37 probably won't be enough even if the Moogs sequence themselves. If your goal is to experiment with generative and uncontrolled stuff, you may want to look into quantizers. That way you can take any modulation of any kind and turn it into a melodic phrase by having the quantizer turn it into 1 volt per octave signals. Throw in some gates/triggers from a different source (Pam's, Maths, etc) and suddenly anything in your setup is a source of unique melodies and arpeggiations. Pam's does quantization if I recall, but there are other options if you want to free it up. Splitting your note/pitch events and timing/trigger/gate events in this way is probably always going to be the best way to use your modular's generative composition possibilities to their fullest extent without feeling too much like you're not doing anything.
first of all, I have already learned a lot from this community. So thank you for this fantastic resource! I'm pretty much at the beginning of the journey, though. I tried to come up with some coherent thoughts and a rack idea (might still be complete nonsense, though ...). It's gotten a bit lengthy, but you can just scroll down to the rack if you want ... and I am really looking forward to what you think.
Background
I'm a pianist with an interest in experimental music. Over the past couple of years, I've gotten more into making (DAWless) (melodic) ambient music with semi-modular gear. Synthwise, aside from a Prophet Rev2, I own two Moog Mother-32s, a DFAM, and a Subharmonicon. I run them through a pedal board with basic effects (reverb, delay, chorus, flanger, distortion, overdrive, looper) and use a Keystep 37 for sequencing.
I've been interested in Eurorack for a while, but it really 'clicked' for me when I recently borrowed a 0-Ctrl, 0-Coast, and Strega from a friend. I love the sound + workflow. Thus, I want to move towards a more generative and West Coast-like direction. But instead of buying another half a dozen semi-modulars, me and my credit card think it's time to go fully modular for that.
Goals for my System
- Integrate with my existing gear/Moogs (so I reckon I don't need many, or any, additional analog VCOs and VCFs?)
- Expand the very East Coast-y soundscape with more modulation sources, wavefolding, randomness, etc.
- Create an instrument that still works on its own and is reasonably balanced starting point
- Keep the budget around 3k€.
I've been looking at beginner's guides and tried to figure out which approaches and modules I like. Since I really enjoy the Make Noise soundscapes and workflows, I’ve tried to incorporate that influence as well. Maybe too much? I also think in my workflow I like simplicity - so I tried to avoid modules that appeared menu-divey to me. Here's what I came up with:
Initial Module Ideas
VCO
With my Moogs, I already have several analog VCOs. I'm considering adding something digital (like Plaits). But I really like the sound of the Make Noise STO which is why, at the moment, I'm considering both.
VCF
As with VCOs, I love the Moog filters but already have four in my semi-modulars, so I don't need another basic east-coasty VCF - I think? The Make Noise QPAS seems like an interesting choice to me and I imagine it pairs well with the STO. But I'm open for suggestions.
Modulation
I'm considering starting with Maths and an LFO (DivKid Ochd). Should I get an additional envelope generator (e.g. Erica Synths Black VCA, Doepfer A140, or ALM Pip Slope)? Or maybe a completely different combination?Â
VCA
I know, "You can never have too many VCAs," but how do you choose a good starting point? I've selected a Tangle (4xVCA) and an Optomix (VCAF, if that counts). For output, I’m considering an extra Pico Out. I'm a bit confused in this area (= even more than in the other areas).
Sequencing / Randomness
With the Moogs and the Keystep I feel there's a lot of sequencing sources available to me already. Therefore, I'm looking for something simple and randomy. I’m considering combining Pamela's PRO Workout with what I already have and maybe a Turing Machine or Wogglebug for some extra uncertainty? I understand they are different beasts. Currently, I'm leaning towards the Wogglebug for a start. But maybe it's dumb to include so many modules by the same maker ... ?
Effects
As I mentioned, I currently use a pedal board for effects, so I’ve included an effects return module but no effects module. Aside from reverb and delay I can't say my music is dependent on many effects. And I've read mixed opinions on effect modules in Eurorack. Optionally I'm considering a Tiptop Audio Z5000 (alternatively an FX Aid XL). Opinions?
Utilities
Same as above with some "swiss army knives" like Ornaments & Crime or Disting MK4. They seem useful in that they let you explore stuff you don't have yet as a distinct module. The reason I haven't included them is a) the menu diving and b) that I probably have a lot to play with and to understand already. But maybe I'm totally wrong here and some allrounders might be useful. Happy about suggestions, especially on what other useful stuff is missing.
Case
In a Rackbrute 6U, this configuration would more or less fit my budget, especially if I can get some modules used. It leaves me with only 50 - 60 ish HP for future expansions and I'm aware that's not much. But I also like it as a compact skiff for gigs and maybe use it in my band. So the reasoning is to add a bigger rack later on and keep this anyway. And I know how that sounds in the context of Eurorack ... but I’ve never been a fan of collecting gear—but let’s revisit that in five years or so. ;)
What Do You Think?
As I said, I tried to put some thoughts into this, but as a beginner without much practical knowledge in fully modular synthesis, I probably have made odd choices. I’m really looking forward to your comments! Thanks!
This is a modular duo, improvised music, straight into the recorder with no editing.
Our music is probably a bit raw, sometimes in noise territory, and clearly into sound design too.
It is not for everyone but I guess that some of you around will enjoy some of it.
Thanks you all! Upon further listening I think this could benefit from some editing, but there's some lovely moments. I'm pretty happy with the last 7 or 8 minutes especially.
I quite liked the look and form factor of a double rackbrute 6U
Hadn't thougt that power would be an issue tho.
Guess anyone could have made that mistake starting out
it's a common issue - often found when a power supply starts failing...
For now i took out the chainsaw so i can still explore
I will be investigating a self build case tho.
My current studiodesk (also self built) needs replacing so .... i want cook up a new design with integrated rackspace.
Preferrably adjustable in hight as well. @JimHowell
About those befaco excalibus power supplies?
What are their power rating and would any old weller soldering iron suffice to build it?
-- Chrissozz
I think they're 1.2A on both the +ve and -ve 12v rails - this should be sufficient for 2 rows, depending on the modules - I have a good distribution of digital (mostly mutable), analog and passive modules and can in most of my cases run 3 rows of up to 104hp from one easily - under 80% utilization - out of the 3 9u and 2 6u cases I run with them iirc only 1 needs a bit of help (a frequency central power supply for a few modules)
most of mine were built with a 25€ soldering iron - only the latest one was built with ny hakko - just be aware they're really time consuming (26 headers with 16 pins each)
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I've settled on grouping by voice sets, not by having a row of oscillators, a bank of envelopes...
I did that at first, but now my clocks are grouped together up in the left corner, and audio/midi io in the lower left.
But I try to have modules in the middle near each other that I can link with
those little yellow doepfer wires as reasonable "defaults".
I also need less wires using Doepfer's CV and trigger bus lines in three of the groupings.
I sort of see it as: here's my bass and percussion sections, this group does keys, this row is guitar/lead,
and this is the mix to output. I can always cross patch to oblivion, but I don't have to every time I sit down to record.
Oh, and the Doepfer A-180-9 Multicore works great for interconnecting boxes.
My eyes are messed up with strabismus so I get lost in the weeds when wires are draped everywhere.
Not a kid now I guess, but I don't like wire balls anymore like I used to.
I believe neither did Alan R. Perlman's designs, compared to Moog and Buchla. (latest build plan here)
I quite liked the look and form factor of a double rackbrute 6U
Hadn't thougt that power would be an issue tho.
Guess anyone could have made that mistake starting out
For now i took out the chainsaw so i can still explore
I will be investigating a self build case tho.
My current studiodesk (also self built) needs replacing so .... i want cook up a new design with integrated rackspace.
Preferrably adjustable in hight as well. @JimHowell
About those befaco excalibus power supplies?
What are their power rating and would any old weller soldering iron suffice to build it?
I just completed a small skiff which I am super excited about. In this skiff contains a ZOIA Euroburo and a Mavis, and an extra mixer/output module. The Mavis was my very first gateway into the patching philosophy of modular and I still love it to this day (if I were to craft any large eurorack system, it would revolve around the Mavis). I've had the ZOIA pedal for awhile and have thoroughly enjoyed using its workflow, so adding the Euroburo was a cool way to integrate my love for ZOIA into my growing curiosity of analog modular systems. These two semi-modular units are ones I have good faith will be used together regularly, and it made sense for me to rack them together in their own case.
I posted a picture of my complete skiff in two different forum groups: one ZOIA users group and a general modular group. Most of the comments I got in the ZOIA group revolved around messages like "Looks like fun!" and "excited to hear it!" On the other hand, most of the initial comments I got in the modular group pretty much pointed out the fact that racking these semi-modular synths was a stupid idea, to just "Leave them in their own case." I admit I am over-exaggerating the contrast of the response of these groups, and I should add once I further explained some of my reasons for racking them most people started to understand. It occurred to me why my goal for this skiff was more easily understood from the ZOIA group: one of the more wide-spread tips modular users give to beginners is to leave semi-modulars in their own cases.
I am not saying that this tip is to be wiped from all the forums and never to be repeated again; I want to iterate that if you are trying to build a eurorack setup and you want to curate a specific set of modules, then this advice of keeping big chunky semi-modular synths out of your rack is a GREAT idea! What I am saying is that reasons exist in which racking these synths may be pretty handy. If you are trying to keep a setup mobile, having a single rack reduces setup time, and you save on outlet space too. If you use your semi-modular synth with other rack-able gear quite often, it would be real handy to have them live together in one easy space, easily within reach at all times. Both of these reasons come to mind when I think about the skiff I've made, as I planned it to be more of an expanded ZOIA than an "actual eurorack setup." These are the reasons that come to mind now, but I'm sure there are other reasons this could be a good idea for you and your setup.
Being an instrumentalist primarily, I like to think of it in terms of a pedalboard. If I have a few pedals and a big multi-FX, I could set them all up separately on a gig (that's quite a long setup), or I could get a pedalboard for my loose pedals and have the multi-FX to the side (getting better), or get a bigger pedalboard to fit everything on one footprint (how convenient!). Essentially what I've done with my skiff is made a "Euroburo pedalboard," and perhaps that is what many of the ZOIA users understood from my post. I think there are pros and cons to each setup ranging from convenience to price and other factors, and there may be no right or wrong answers.
I guess the tl;dr to this would be this: have a PLAN! Have as clear of a goal in your mind about what you want out of an interface to create music. This not only helps your end product, but it also helps you filter what advice you find to be either helpful or empty. Context online can be downright difficult to articulate, but understanding your plan will clear much of that challenge up!
I would love to hear your thoughts on this matter. What did I miss? What should be elaborated upon?
I've never been a fan of the rackbrute - don't like the design - and the power solution is m'eh - rackwart & all -
-- JimHowell1970
My experience of the Rackbrute wasn't good, Power module got so hot that is always smelled like melting plastic, sent it back, manufacturer repaired, lost confidence in the case and sold on. It even made my modules run hotter than my 2x TipTop UZeus power. Now I'm on Konstantlab power for my bigger case and my 2x small cases are on the uZeus and no overheating.
-- wishbonebrewery
Your experience makes me even less of a fan...
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I've never been a fan of the rackbrute - don't like the design - and the power solution is m'eh - rackwart & all -
-- JimHowell1970
My experience of the Rackbrute wasn't good, Power module got so hot that is always smelled like melting plastic, sent it back, manufacturer repaired, lost confidence in the case and sold on. It even made my modules run hotter than my 2x TipTop UZeus power. Now I'm on Konstantlab power for my bigger case and my 2x small cases are on the uZeus and no overheating.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
I really wish there was a 'Bottom Row' tag, or something similar, for modules where the jacks are in the upper part of the module while the lower part has the knobs/faders/etc.
This should also include modules that are flippable by design (the display has to be flippable and/or rotary knobs turn infinitely in both directions + programmable...modules that still work well upside down). Either that or there should be a flippable tag with this criteria.
I feel like it would be great when putting together any sort of desktop sequencer, controller or mixer pod/skiff. Also for racks where the bottom row(s) slant forward (ie ES Megarack, PM Structure etc), or the bottom tier in stacked cases.
cases have power supplies that are designed to be sufficient when the case is filled with a reasonable distribution of module types - ie some digital, some analog, some passive... although some are just because they are cheap...
I've never been a fan of the rackbrute - don't like the design - and the power solution is m'eh - rackwart & all - the only reason I would suggest a rackbrute was if someone was expanding a minibrute2/2s & even then it's at a push and based on space requirements & even then I'd be railing against them!!! even the branding is too much... if I had one and wanted to play out with it, I'd have to gaffe tape the back to hide the branding - lest 1/2 the audience thought I was playing an arturia synth - not just using one of their. cases for a modular!
in my experience the tiptop mantis is one of the better powered cases - no rack wart!!! - sufficient for almost all audio applications - not quite up to it if tryiong to power a full compliment of gen2 LZX video synth modules - because the -12v is too low - but not far off! but that points towards getting creative with analog utilities etc (doepfer are great for this)
the b-company "clone" of the mantis - the go case - on the other hand - is underpowered imo - due to them making the case 40% bigger but failing to upgrade the power supply which is apparantly a direct clone of the mantis one - which is probablyu= fine if you fill it with their roland and moog clones - but start putting a load of high draw digital modules in it and you end up in the sasme boat as the OP
doepfer 6u racks are also very well powered - the 9u ones seem a bit underpowered to me... haven't looked at the rackspace to power supply ratio in their bigger ones though... but again I suspect the 6 u are fine and the 12 u are fine - but the 8u not so much!
if you follow the formula in my signature (it scales well from tiny to bigger than you can imagine) you are likely to not have problems with power in cases that have decent power supplies
if you are building your own case and adding power I recommend the befaco excalibus power supplies as very good - 1 per 6u works well and they are very quiet - no noticable ripple up into video rates (MHz, not just KHz for audio), no rackwart, equal -ve and +ve rails and available DIY - a simple if tedious build (due to the number of headers that need soldering) - & low form factor - all headers are on the edges, not upright
btw - there's a great primer on modular power in the stickies of the 3u & 1u subforum at modwiggler... including why you need to leave a load of headroom - see previous post for synopsis
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I don't think this is everyone's cup of tea, but was back to some feedback patching earlier today and it turned out pretty nice. Some 1991 High Tech High Life vibes, plus plenty of reverbs turning into noise.
hi,
Usually power supplies give their best performance with loads of a maximum of 80%. Taking them to 90 or 100% makes them last less. Not to mention the temperature. Additionally, many digital modules cause consumption peaks when starting up, and if the source is already at its limit, they may not start correctly.
One thing to keep in mind : It is not good to run the power supply at max load. It's a good rule of thumb to keep the power consumption between 50 - 70 % of the max load. So a power supply of 2A would be a strict minimum I think (it would be running @ ~80%). to maximise the space I would replace the Arturia PS which is 6hp by either a TipTop uZeus and you have 2hp free or 2 Behringer CP1A.
That said, I don't know your need in the -12v. The TipTop uZeus has a good +12v supply in 4hp but the -12v is kind of poor.
if needed more -12v 2 Behringer CP1A would do the trick and you still keep 4hp free
Can you split your rack into 2 seperate rows and give the links so we can have a more detaled consumption per row ?
-- Folkien
Why would a power supply not be able to operate at say 90/95% instead of 50 to 70% tho?
Currently running this setup.
This is the data sheet for it
6 Modules (2 passive) Row 1 79 HP max 80 mm 725 mA +12V 130 mA -12V 0 mA +5V
8 Modules (1 passive) Row 2 67 HP max 45 mm 650 mA +12V 481 mA -12V 0 mA +5V
14 Modules (3 passive) Total 146 HP max 80 mm 1,375 mA +12V 611 mA -12V 0 mA +5V
My initial plan was to end up with 2 rackbrutes 6U. Filling the cases as i go.
But if both of the cases need an extra powersupply i dont know if thats the way i want to go forward
Adding a 2hp power from endorphin.es wouldn't be the end of the world
But if i get a second rackbrute its gonna need one as well i guess
Currently pondering to build a case myself.
As Mazz said, a envelope follower generates continuous CV from a signal you put into it by measuring its voltage. A common application is ducking or side chaining where one sound temporarily suppresses another to keep maximum presence. Like a kick supressing a bass line or a voice pushing back background music in a video.
Something like this:
ducking sound --> env follower --> inverter --> vca controlling ducked sound
-- wiggler55550
This is super usefult, thanks: "ducking sound --> env follower --> inverter --> vca controlling ducked sound"
