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I’m afraid I’m going to fuck something up. Is this fear valid or should I just go through with it?
-- Eros222

Just do it. I recently gave the rings alternate firmware a go and it's a gamechanger. Adds elements, as well as a whole bunch of other stuff.

It does lower the sample rate just a hair, but it doesn't bother me as it's not very noticeable.

I have not brought my geiger near it yet (it's in a drawer upstairs) to confirm or deny the presence of actual nuclear decay, sorry. I'll add that step to my test/demo section in the future....

EDITED Apr 17th 2022, 05:28

You have a lot of module who aren't "one knob per function". It can be ok for you but also can bring confusion and discomfort to play, specially fx aid, marbles and disting mk4. Do you want to do live concerts or just program at home?

You also don't have stereo mixer like stmix or mixup. With 5 stereo effect module, it may be missing.
-- SamuelGeai

The only menu-diving module amongst those is the Disting...which is super-powerful but also a real pain to navigate with its minimal display. As for the FX Aid, it's dirt-simple, like the majority of the Spin FV-1 devices. And Marbles shouldn't scare anyone who's accustomed to manipulating random sources.

The problem with "one knob" functionality in a small build like this one is that it wouldn't be a small build if that were implemented. That's the real reason for avoiding that trap; small builds require function-dense modules so that you can get lots of functionality per module, which is key to making a small build that can hold its own against huge builds that are more "one-knob"-like. And, of course, so that you can tote the synth around in a small cab, instead of hauling Doepfer monster cases around.

I wonder...might the problem be a component mismatch? Not the 3320 itself, but in the audio path "upstream". It might be worthwhile to A-B the schematics of this module against an "old skool" CEM3320 module to see if there's some component corrections that might even out the behavior/sound quality.

@clusterchord Yes. For all its features, but also 'intellectually' :) Maths remains a must-have. The best cigar money can buy :))
-- Sweelinck

Makes me think of the parallels between Maths and, say, the long-lost Avo piramides. I seriously miss those...

But yeah...Maths is 100% a core module these days. The capabilities it has are super-deep, and it's a logical must-do choice as a modulation (and loads more!) device. Tony NAILED that thing!

But is it really radioactive? I mean...a couple of my studio devices are, sooooooo...

That leads me to your already mentioned conclusion about the huge number of B.'s "teasers" the recent weeks/months and wondering how much of it ever will be produced and released on the market, besides the next important question... when will it be available? To me, this becomes a rather "irritating" experience getting to know about those "teasers" but nothing much else than that...

-- GarfieldModular

100% with you there. I have a great deal of annoyance at B.'s dropping teasers and then not offering any concrete follow-up info. For example, the PPG clone...wanted it, it's not out, so fukkit...went with a Sledge instead. Similarly, they keep making noises about their VCS3 clone...which I would be in line for IF it comes out, but B. just drops teasers and nothing concrete about this one. And where's the Solina clone? They might want to finish CURRENT projects FIRST before whipping users into a frenzy!

Look, if Uli wants a synth to copy, one that definitely benefits from the current tech AND which can be copied in its entirety and sell for about a grand...there's the Crumar GDS. Crazy-complex stuff for the late 1970s/early 1980s, it was the predecessor for the DK Synergy and Synergy II. But with the present-day tech, you could use a computer ed/lib to store patch data as well as to pass various signals (clock, for example) to the synth via USB, eliminating the need for the computer side of the instrument. And the internal microprocessors, RAM, etc are now nowhere the prices they were back then, which kills the expense aspect.

But the important part? Well...amazingly enough, that synth engine is 100% PUBLIC DOMAIN. I kid you not! It was originally developed by Hal Alles when he was working for Bell Labs in the mid-1970s, and given that the Bell Labs patents are open for public use without royalties, there's no way in hell anyone could scream "KNOCK-OFF" about it. Also, Hal Alles's prototype is still very much in existence, and it's housed at Oberlin's TIMARA labs. Studying that would be productive, along with a Synergy or Synergy II IF they can find one anywhere; it's not like these grew on trees, after all!

C'mon Uli...if you want to pull off a HUGE win without infringing patents and angering your putative customer base, THAT is the project I would suggest. It'd be a win all around! We're talking a synth that was used by the likes of Wendy and Klaus...so clearly, it's got loads of mojo, otherwise those two alone wouldn't have had anything to do with it.

You have a lot of module who aren't "one knob per function". It can be ok for you but also can bring confusion and discomfort to play, specially fx aid, marbles and disting mk4. Do you want to do live concerts or just program at home?

You also don't have stereo mixer like stmix or mixup. With 5 stereo effect module, it may be missing.

Thanks, now the application has definitely become a lot clearer to me. It's very interesting how a quantizer is used in the different racks

Hello, I have changed my rack again based on your recommendations and tips

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1882845.jpg

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:04

@clusterchord Yes. For all its features, but also 'intellectually' :) Maths remains a must-have. The best cigar money can buy :))

i had juno, still have sh101. while juno used IR3R01 chip for its env, and the latter a transistor design, i find them pretty similar in their shape, especially achieving that characteristic Roland "twang" when applied to filter. actually 101 might even be better at it.

there are no envelopes that use that chip, as its unobtanium and used for fixing junos and jup8.

however, there are transistor envs that do SH101, like Frequency Central. think G-Storm might have done some etc. Intellijel is also in that vein, but i dont think it sounds as snappy as FC or 101.

Soundforce is probably doing something similar. its not an actual Juno env inside, no. but all things considered, it does not make any difference. get it if you have HP space and want cv control over everything. otherwise go smaller.

my $0.02

hi Matteo, here are my favorites in analog domain:

1. BBD i.e. analog delay:

   EHX DMM - vintage, warm repeats, classic
   Boss DM-300 - same as above - probably my all time favorite
   Dynacord SRS-56 - dual mono bbd, dark but thick

2. Reverb: Music Thing Spring Reverb - i use medium Accutronic, and large old Hammond tank

3. Flanger: MXR126 Flanger/Doubler - Reticon chip. wide bandwidth, feedback polarity, cv

4. Phase Shifter:

   Small Stone - vintage rev2 & 3 - classic sound for deep cosmic levitations
   Phase 100 script logo - classic opto phaser, think gary numan cars, genesis etc

5. Chorus/Ensemble/wow+flutter:

   Synthoma Elkorus - original bbds from eminent stringers, triple bbd, two lfo, stereo
   Ibanez BC-9 - double bbd with indiv rate/depth
   Shallow Water - tried one, its on my shopping list

EDITED Jul 4th 2023, 10:17

have to say i prefer analog envelopes, for various reasons.

to start off,

for acoustic, snappy, from sound of hitting wood, to plinking on a porcelan vase, to a small
drum skin percussion, i love Maths. its slopes and the log/lin/exp control are just perfect.
i keep a narrow vca nearby if i want to automate slope change, by self patching (env out into
vca into maths cv ctrl inputs - rise,fall or both)

for classic Rolandish snap/twang in ADSR form, the FC has done well with his X-Envelope.
reportedly designed after the transistor env in SH101. i have a pair and its great they take
little space. however, if you need CV control, then you might look at Befaco or Instruo.
havent tried em tho.

also, in the AD/AR domain, i do like what i am hearing from Delta-V. very punchy. it has
that micro short hold phase, just like minimoog envs. i was looking into getting another
Maths for a while, but now im debating should i add this instead, for little variety sake.

cheers

EDITED Apr 18th 2022, 03:34

while I would agree that having the original ESPECIALLY if its going to be discontinued is a better choice may I point this module

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/st-modular-yaksha-s-fate

I have it and its nice for what it is. According to its blurb its setup in such a way that all “tweakable” parameters are on top
with bigger knobs etc have all others that will affect tune and harmonics more subdued.

I mainly use my uRings clone for either percussion or non-melodic cases where tuning etc doesnt matter much

Anyway just wanted to offer another module to have a look.. to be frank though I would prefer at this point a full sized one and will at some point try to procure one.

A very quick VCO/VCA build from Tesseract Modular. All surface mount except for the controls and LEDs, but all the surface mount has been pre-soldered. Means that the build is super fast, like 10-20 minutes for most folks.
Sounds really good and has interesting controls, recommended.

Radioactive build and demo

If size is an issue this might not make sense but the STG Envelope Generator is worth at least knowing about. As far as I know, the feature set is unique. I bought one and liked it enough to buy another.

Thanks for your thoughts dubstepjoris and TOMMI001. I just heard that Rings has been discontinued, so I might try to pick up the original while I still can. After picking up Plaits and Beads, I now realize that I have real pieces of art in my hands. I will stick with the originals while I can:)

Thanks for that, Jim. I really enjoyed checking out your videos on Instagram.

Ha, ha!

How about that "screaming stuff" from Touell Skouarn?

As for the "Soul", though...I was intrigued until I saw what they were touting as "prototypes", which just look ugly and ungainly...no fun to play!

-- Lugia

Actually the same I was thinking about the Soul, it looks to me that I will not be interested in it. That Prophet VS oscillator though, that indeed might become an interesting module, however I want to have it tested at my dealer first before I think about buying it.

Okay and indeed regarding the BCR32, we have to be patience again to see when it becomes available and if indeed, if it's really that great as we hope it's going to be :-) Well, let's see...

That leads me to your already mentioned conclusion about the huge number of B.'s "teasers" the recent weeks/months and wondering how much of it ever will be produced and released on the market, besides the next important question... when will it be available? To me, this becomes a rather "irritating" experience getting to know about those "teasers" but nothing much else than that...

Again, anyway, let's see... Thanks a lot for your opinion & feedback and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi TumeniKnobs,

Sounds indeed that the Summit is almost a kind of "must-have" poly-synth :-) Thanks a lot for your feedback. I need to go back to my local dealer and test it yet again, somehow I have the feeling that it only would confirm to take the Summit ;-)

I hope to listen soon again to beautiful music from you and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks! The warbly stuff is a TX81Z and a Plaits-based voice. Formant stuff is another Plaits doing one voice, buried a little and doubling some notes up. Primary formant voice is random vocal samples run through the Mutable Warps vocoder with the carrier sequenced by the Nerd. Bass is BehriMoog through a Mutable Ripples. Kick is SSF Ultra Kick. Percussion is the TakTakTak Drumbo and some samples run through a Mutable Beads.

The Nerd is amazing. Immensely flexible. For this tune, chords and melodies were played and drums were programmed. Just doing whichever is quickest. I'll also go in and edit the recorded tracks adding FX, inverting a chord, adding some CC, program changes or whatever. This track was done in about three hours from scratch.

EDITED Apr 14th 2022, 23:03

Now I wonder...what cigar would be an aesthetic stand-in for Schlappi Engineering's stuff? Probably something explosive...

No...I know the BCR32 is going to come out. And that's actually important, as they did collaborate with the people who did the ZAQuencer firmware for the old BCR2000, so it should function along those lines. It's something I'm waiting for PROVIDED it doesn't turn out to be one of Uli's BS product info drops.

But yeah...it's a Prophet VS oscillator, which is key to the sound of the P-VS. You lose the polyphony here, but you apparently retain the rest of the bits that make this a killer VCO. As for the "Soul", though...I was intrigued until I saw what they were touting as "prototypes", which just look ugly and ungainly...no fun to play!

One of the big problems here is Behringer itself...and not merely Uli. Their practices of ginning up customer interest with these "teasers" is, ultimately, annoying and a tad deceptive, particularly when one of these teasers drops and gets everyone all hot and bothered about something that won't be in stores for perhaps YEARS. If even then! Just another fine example of how Tribe really doesn't give a flying f**k about communicating the real info or whether or not the synth-buying public is annoyed at these antics. They need to double down on getting projects out the door instead of showing us renders of something "conceptual".

F'rinstance, they've apparently now got a Buchla Easel retread, it's got a price tag, pics, blahblahblah...and it's just as likely to be out in 2032 rather than 2022. I might get it...but Uli's heading into MY turf here, having used a 200/300 hybrid system back in the 1990s. If it's not up to snuff, I'll be PISSED.

Ooh! Those are lovely sounds!
Far less aggressive than I would have imagined.

Here's a quick video of some melodic BIA sounds. The attack and release can be reasonably long for melodic duties.

Ok, interesting
My feel was that the Taiko may have more potential as a melodic voice, where as the BIA seems pretty drum-centric

I debated this pretty hard for a few months and ultimately decided on BIA. I felt that I could get similar sounds from BIA plus a bit more variety in less hp. That's not to say Akemie's is not awesome. I would still like to have the Taiko (and Akemie's Castle), but I have FM sounds covered outside of the rack. And with the new updated Volca FM I just saw, I feel like you could cover your FM needs with much less $$$.
I'm curious to hear what others have chosen in this particular shootout.

As the title states,

Given space and price being no object,
which of these modules would you choose,
1. as a primary drum module
2. as a melodic voice
3. 1 or 2 with support from plaits drum models

I understand that the methods of synthesis are different.

Thanks in advance

Great track! Love the dynamics, the warbly sounds, and the chord changing sequence is excellent! Also loved that break at 3:00 with the formant sounds. That never gets old for me. The Nerdseq is interesting but I wonder how hard the programming is and how much of it is just straight programming vs playing a sequence into it. Thanks for sharing. Cheers!

alright! I have the info I need... Thank you guys for your help!!

The main difference is that the Lunch Bus's power converter (the little MeanWell block) is half the power of the one on the Excalibus - if that still covers your needs, go for it! (In theory, the footprints are the same, so could put the 30W MeanWell on a LunchBus but as Jim says i've never seen one DIY...)

I also have several Excalibus, and apart from getting a little warm because I really need one more of them, they're great! I opted to add some cheap little heatsinks on the converters to help them out a little bit, but the datasheet also says that they're supposed to run a little toasty, so it's probably not really necessary.

I have no experience with any of these modules, but I am familiar with clocking issues. Maybe these tips will help you find the problem.

Clock signals are essentially short triggers, so you could make a clock source yourself by creating an on/off signal of approx 5 volts. A square LFO can be used for this, or manually triggering something like a short envelope should work.
Patch a temporary manual "clock source" into Pam's to see if it responds to this the way you expect. If not, the problem is likely on Pam's side. Maybe you need to change some setting to make it listen to external input as opposed to the internal clock.

Ideally, patch the clock/reset output of Yarns into a scope or something that shows you the voltage from Yarns. If you don't have a module like this, create a basic patch to see if Yarns actually puts out a signal: clock/reset into a short envelope generator (sustain all the way up, short/medium release), envelope to a VCA's CV in, add any audible soundsource (noise or somthing) to the VCA input and route the VCA output to your mixer/output/speakers. Is the envelope being triggered, do you hear any sound? If not, the problem is probably in the MIDI output settings of the Tanzbär or the midi input settings of Yarns.
Try to connect the MIDI OUT of the Tanzbär to another MIDI device and see if that works.

Good luck!

yes, but isn't velocity cv just on the pitched sequencer channels - I thought you wanted it on the trigger sequencer outputs - ie how hard you hit a drum - I don't often use the BSP these days - although I may start again soon when I have a couple more percussion modules...

-- JimHowell1970

Yes, that's correct. The 8 drumpads are trigger only. So for the two pitched sequencer tracks, you can adjust another parameter in addition to trigger+V/Oct, which is what I did. I guess if I'm really desperate and I know a sequencer + drum part are running together, I can use the sequencer velocity to tweak something in the drum line. But that's probably my 3-track C=64 tracker mentality coming up again!

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/antumbra-dvca
You'll have 4HP if you use the Cara marbles module, which is 2HP less than one you have in the top left.

-- Manbearpignick

Thank you!

It is done!!

I can rest easy now and think about a more sensible introduction to hardware eurorack
-- static10

To be fair, that rack was never supposed to be an introduction to Eurorack. It was an example of what’s required for a ‘serious’ generative system - I still refer to it today. It’s not really module prescriptive either because in its original thread/context, Lugia explains what each module contributes to a generative workflow: some manipulate clocks, others extract gates from waveforms, others create random CV to manipulate those waveforms, and it goes on in an ever cycling, non-repeating fashion. What I like about the rack is that there are no ‘do it all’ modules (save for maybe the Marbles or Time’s Arrow), so you really have to think through what you’re trying to do - which for me is the fun part.

-- Manbearpignick

@Lugia's explanation of the rack is excellent and very helpful, even outside the thread's context, and I have it bookmarked for reference. I knew it was never meant to be an introduction, and it was never really in my thoughts for a first rack, but oh boy, that last module!

Sorry for my absence/late reply. I’ve been trying to curb my modular appetite by staying offline lol. I actually purchased a veils a while back and it’s awesome. I really do appreciate everyone’s suggestions it was really helpful for me as someone not knowing anything really about this world. I have a fun little set up that I’m really happy with made of mostly mutable modules. I was wanting to explore some of the alternative firmware that’s out there for mainly clouds and stages but I’m afraid I’m going to fuck something up. Is this fear valid or should I just go through with it?

Thanks TumeniKnobs!

That’s excellent! Great sounding patch and great video to go with it. Thanks for sharing.

Hi Garfield! Thanks for your fantastic comments. Regarding the Summit - I really like it. I don’t use it as much as I’d like but every time I touch it wonderful sounds come out. It has a ton of features and functionality and I love the filter and even the effects are pretty good. Notation offers a ton of free sounds online and spent a bunch of time grabbing cool pads and leads, so that made it even better. I don’t do “sound design” on it but find a preset that’s close to what I want and tweak from there. If you’re in need of a kick-ass 16 voice poly-synth it’s hard to beat.

Oh yes I forgot to mention that I set Yarns clock to external.

Hi!

I'm totally stuck at the moment, would be amazing if somebody might know something about this clock setup issue!

I'm trying to sync Pamela's NEW Workout with my MFB Tanzbär 2 drum computer's clock. I have Mutable Instruments Yarns as my MIDI to CV interface.
Yarns layout is set to 2M: 2x monophonic. MIDI notes and gate info are received via MIDI from the Tanzbär sequencer to Yarns Note CV 1 - 2 and Gate 1 - 2 outputs, this works fine.
I have the MIDI Clock and MIDI start CV outs on Yarns patched to the Clock and Run CV inputs on Pamela, but unfortunately neither is Pam started or synced to the Tanzbär's BPM. I tried messing around with the clock settings on Pam, like the PPQ etc. but Pam's BPM remains fixed on 300 BPM, and refuses to sync or run.

I have a feeling I'm totally missing something here I'm overlooking?

Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

there is a cable I could use with the 4MS Listen Four 1/4 that goes from 1/4" to 3.5mm that could be run to my Cosmix....just not sure if audio quality degrades doing something like that or not.
-- jb61264

yes there are cables available and they work fine - signal degredation is identical to using 3.5mm->3.5mm cables - hosa make them as do other brands including doepfer iirc

Hi Jim,

About those BSP velocity sensitive buttons...

not via the trigger outs they're not - via midi they are I guess - never used mine other than via cv though

I've just tested this. The velo CV output works just fine. It outputs a very wide range between velo 0 and vel0 127. I've not metered it but I'm guessing 0-10V. When I pass it through an attenuator, it works nicely to control effects. For example, in Plaits in the granular sawtooth mode, I use it to control the spread of the frequencies of the sawtooth. The harder I punch the button, the more distorted it sounds. If you haven't yet, try it out - it's a nice way to control an effect per step with the BSP.

-- Arrandan

yes, but isn't velocity cv just on the pitched sequencer channels - I thought you wanted it on the trigger sequencer outputs - ie how hard you hit a drum - I don't often use the BSP these days - although I may start again soon when I have a couple more percussion modules...

why do I recommend the excalibus??? because I have 4 - all DIY ones (lunchbus doesn't come DIY afaik) - simple, if tedious builds - there's 26? * 16 solder joints just for the headers - and they are great - quiet enough for video modules (no noticeable ripple up intot he MHz) - and they have a lot of headers and are low profile

if the lunchbus will work for you I'm pretty sure it's the same - but idk - which is why I recommend the excalibus - because I do know!

Thanks Jim. Is there any reason I shouldn't use the Lunch Bus, in place of the Excalibus? The Lunch Bus is a bit cheaper than the Excal, but I notice that the power specs are a little different. But there are some YT videos of some DIY cases that used the Lunch Bus...

This semi-generative piece was based around a method I devised to get Pamela’s New Workout to instantly and automatically regenerate a loop of random voltage every few bars. Three interlocking melodies – a bass line, a treble voice, and (via Beads) a kind of string section – unfold from a single Mutable Instruments Plaits module and a single pitch sequence. This piece was also an effort to get outside my diatonic comfort zone, and use some “outside” chords, in this case an F#maj13 that disturb the Cm and Gm. (How can a major chord sound so bleak?). The overall mood is dark ambient but with warm tones, hence the title.
Further patch details in the video:
Stygian Colors: a semi-generative piece